Happy Reformation Day to my seperated brothers and sisters!

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2nd_Adam said:
Oh… come on… if I can own and read a copy of the Catholic Catechism and the Companiion to the Catechism, you certainly can buy and read Calvin’s Institutes of the Christian Religion. I actually had the Catholic Catechism and Companion years ago.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institutes_of_the_Christian_Religion
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I’ve read pieces of it. My comment wasn’t necessarily made in reference to Calvin or his works but to the dialogue between you and Nominefili.

You stated:
God is always sovereign, and through Providence… God used Martin Luther to correct the church.
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Nominefili responded that he would agree with you if the same argument couldn’t be made with Calvin. And then added the words ‘yuck’ after wards. To which you replied that you thought Calvin was one of the most gifted theologians.

I was really interested to see where this conversation went. In the name of celebration of course :D. Which is why I brought out my bag of popcorn 🍿

Just for you I will, as soon as this message is posted, put Calvin’s Institutes on my Amazon wish list.

God bless
 
Roman_Catholic said:
Peter Kreeft is indeed very wise. He was a Calvinist before his conversion… 😃

God bless
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You know, those ex-Protestant Calvinists like Peter Kreeft and Scott Hahn bring in the truths of the Reformation like justification by faith alone into the Catholic Faith… (just kidding). Those ex-Calvinists seem to have influenced Pope Benedict on justification by faith alone too. (just a joke). Are you sure Peter Kreeft and Scott Hahns are not Reformed spies infiltrating the Catholic Church for internal Reformed from within. 😉 Please tell me something about Tim Staples. He sure speaks poorly about Martin Luther.
 
2nd_Adam said:
You know, those ex-Protestant Calvinists like Peter Kreeft and Scott Hahn bring in the truths like justification by faith alone into the Catholic Faith… (just kidding). Those ex-Calvinists seem to have influenced Pope Benedict on justification by faith alone (just a joke). Are you sure Peter Kreeft and Scott Hahns are not Reformed spies infltrating the Catholic Church for internal Reformed from within. 😉 Please tell me something about Tim Staples. He sure speaks poorly about Martin Luther.
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I think what has happened here is that you have stopped going to anti-Catholics to learn what the Catholic Church teaches and have instead gone to Catholic sources and now believe that our faith has changed from what the anti-Catholics say Catholics believe to what you think Catholics now believe. What you will soon realize, with the more study you do, is that the Church’s stance hasn’t changed, only that what the anti-Catholics taught about the faith was never so. I will let the Council of Trent speak for itself:
But when the Apostle says that man is justified by faith and
freely, these words are to be understood in that sense in which the
uninterrupted unanimity of the Catholic Church has held and expressed
them, namely, that we are therefore said to be justified by faith, because
faith is the beginning of human salvation, the foundation and root of all
justification, without which it is impossible to please God and to
come to the fellowship of His sons; and we are therefore said to be
justified gratuitously, because none of those things that precede
justification, whether faith or works, merit the grace of justification.
For, if by grace, it is not now by works, otherwise, as the Apostle says,
grace is no more grace. Council of Trent Sixth Session Chapter VIII
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Justification by Faith is thoroughly Catholic. Always has been. Lets just not confuse it with sola fide 👍

God bless you
 
Roman_Catholic said:
I think what has happened here is that you have stopped going to anti-Catholics to learn what the Catholic Church teaches and have instead gone to Catholic sources and now believe that our faith has changed from what the anti-Catholics say Catholics believe to what you think Catholics now believe. What you will soon realize, with the more study you do, is that the Church’s stance hasn’t changed, only that what the anti-Catholics taught about the faith was never so. I will let the Council of Trent speak for itself:

Justification by Faith is thoroughly Catholic. Always has been. Lets just not confuse it with sola fide 👍

God bless you
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Well… you know when the Pope is speaking in a very postiive way about Martin Luther and agreeing with him on justification by faith alone with an IF qualifier, you have to wonder what God is up to by placing ex Calvinists in the Catholic Church. So, what’s up with Tim Staples, is he an ex-lawyer or something?
 
2nd_Adam said:
Well… you know when the Pope is speaking in a very postiive way about Martin Luther and agreeing with him on justification by faith alone with an IF qualifier,
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I figured that you would bring that up and I see that the thread you made on it has gone quite well. There are a lot of things that I agree with Luther on 🤷 There are even more things that I could agree with Luther on if I included an if clause 😉

The if clause is up there with the finger-crossed clause.

Again, go back and read the Council of Trent for yourself. What these ex-Calvinist and ex-whatevers have realized is not that the Catholic Church has changed, or that they have changed the Catholic Church, but what they were told by non-Catholics about what Catholics believe was never so.
you have to wonder what God is up to by placing ex Calvinists in the Catholic Church.
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That even Calvinist need to repent of their Calvinist errors 🤷

You seem disturbed that I mentioned that Kreeft was a convert from Calvinism. Remember it was him that converted to the Catholic faith. Not the Catholic faith which converted to his Calvinism.

Also you were the one that brought up him being “wise” 😉 I simply agreed with you… and mentioned that he was once a Calvinist. 😃

God bless you
 
What’s so happy about Reformation Day?

The fact that Martin Luther separated the Church?
The fact that Martin Luther led millions (billions?) of people into false faiths?
The fact that Martin Luther was too busy being angry at the Catholic Church that he couldn’t give out candy to the children?

I don’t get it.
 
Roman_Catholic said:
I figured that you would bring that up and I see that the thread you made on it has gone quite well. There are a lot of things that I agree with Luther on 🤷 There are even more things that I could agree with Luther on if I included an if clause 😉

The if clause is up there with the finger-crossed clause.

Again, go back and read the Council of Trent for yourself. What these ex-Calvinist and ex-whatevers have realized is not that the Catholic Church has changed, or that they have changed the Catholic Church, but what they were told by non-Catholics about what Catholics believe was never so.

That even Calvinist need to repent of their Calvinist errors 🤷

You seem disturbed that I mentioned that Kreeft was a convert from Calvinism. Remember it was him that converted to the Catholic faith. Not the Catholic faith which converted to his Calvinism.

Also you were the one that brought up him being “wise” 😉 I simply agreed with you… and mentioned that he was once a Calvinist. 😃

God bless you
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Of course not, since I read Scott Hahn’s testimony about 10 years ago. Remember that Scott Hahn is an ex PCA Pastor (Reformed). So, what’s up with Tim Staples? I heard him on the Catholic Apologetics radio program the other day. And, we all need to embrace a version of faith alone just like the Pope.
 
mbgumby28 said:
What’s so happy about Reformation Day?

The fact that Martin Luther separated the Church?
The fact that Martin Luther led millions (billions?) of people into false faiths?
The fact that Martin Luther was too busy being angry at the Catholic Church that he couldn’t give out candy to the children?

I don’t get it.
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You need to read the OP link by the Catholic Protessor! Or, please read my two signature links… FAITH ALONE!
 
2nd_Adam said:
You need to read the OP link by the Catholic Protessor! Or, please read my two signature links… FAITH ALONE!
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I still don’t get it. Don’t you think that Reformation Day was sad since Christianity became horribly divided? And what do you mean by “faith alone”?
 
2nd_Adam said:
Of course not, since I read Scott Hahn’s testimony about 10 years ago. Remember that Scott Hahn is an ex PCA Pastor (Reformed). So, what’s up with Tim Staples? I heard him on the Catholic Apologetics radio program the other day. And, we all need to embrace a version of faith alone just like the Pope.
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I am obviously not picking up on your continued Tim Staples reference. You’re going to have to tell me what you are referring to. Tim Staples is not one of the Catholic apologists/authors/historians that I have read or followed.

Are you curious about his background or did he say something that I should be aware of that you are hinting at?

God bless you
 
mbgumby28 said:
I still don’t get it. Don’t you think that Reformation Day was sad since Christianity became horribly divided?
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I absolutely agree. I will observe it, but not celebrate it. The Reformation remains unfinished until we have, through the Holy Spirit, reconciliation.

Jon
 
mbgumby28 said:
I still don’t get it. Don’t you think that Reformation Day was sad since Christianity became horribly divided? And what do you mean by “faith alone”?
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Actually, if you read the Catholic Professor’s work… I think you will see how God used Martin Luther to correct the Catholic Church. Please see the OP link or the links on my signature.
 
Roman_Catholic said:
I am obviously not picking up on your continued Tim Staples reference. You’re going to have to tell me what you are referring to. Tim Staples is not one of the Catholic apologists/authors/historians that I have read or followed.

Are you curious about his background or did he say something that I should be aware of that you are hinting at?

God bless you
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Oh, okay… he is one of the Catholic Apologists on the Catholic Answer radio program. Many of the Catholic Apologists on Catholic Answers are ex-Protestants. They seem to bring in much Protestant thought into the Catholic Faith. Tim Staples just seem extremely hostile to Martin Luther and Protestants… as if he had a bone to pick.
 
Roman_Catholic said:
Faith alone if by faith alone you don’t mean faith alone 😃

God bless
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Okay, Catholics can believe in faith alone with the if attached to it. I’m okay with that as long as you allow me to say that we are saved by grace alone through faith alone by the merit of Christ alone… and to the glory of God alone. I don’t mind the word “if” since I always fight the Protestants with an easy believism theology. I just might use the word “if” when I debate with an easy believism Protestant.
 
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