Harms of Homosexuality.

  • Thread starter Thread starter salival
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Anyone can read it and draw the appropriate conclusions. I have no idea why you are denying your own words?
You stated that people with this condition may be less likely to act out in anti social ways if society did not treat them in such a bad way.
Appropriate conclusion? Yours is not the appropriate conclusion, in fact you are saying that I am trying to make homosexual activity seem reasonable, that is not the case. I am not denying my own words, I have stated that if society did not act in such a poor way to homosexuals, then there may be a much stronger chance of them not conforming to this ‘dangerous lifestyle’, and more chance of them finding God and living in chastity. I am suprised that you needed me to explain this to you.
 
40.png
Libero:
Appropriate conclusion? Yours is not the appropriate conclusion, in fact you are saying that I am trying to make homosexual activity seem reasonable, that is not the case. I am not denying my own words, I have stated that if society did not act in such a poor way to homosexuals, then there may be a much stronger chance of them not conforming to this ‘dangerous lifestyle’, and more chance of them finding God and living in chastity. I am suprised that you needed me to explain this to you.
I am rejecting your premise that society is mistreating people with this condition. It is false to claim that society is responsible for people breaking the law or committing sins.

In fact, a case may be made for the opposite. Society has accepted homosexual conduct to such an extent it is celebrated, embraced and accepted as “natural”.
 
I am rejecting your premise that society is mistreating people with this condition. It is false to claim that society is responsible for people breaking the law or committing sins.
In fact, a case may be made for the opposite. Society has accepted homosexual conduct to such an extent it is celebrated, embraced and accepted as “natural”.
Good for you, you get to live in a place where homosexuals aren’t looked down on as inferior people.

However, it is of clear evidence that all over my society they are clawed at in many instances. People use the term homosexual or gay as a direct insult to others, the fact that many comedians depend on homosexuality for their acts can only reflect badly on them. What is more the topic is in constant deliberation here, always you can find somebody willing to condemn homosexuals regardless of anything else.
 
40.png
fix:
I am rejecting your premise that society is mistreating people with this condition. It is false to claim that society is responsible for people breaking the law or committing sins.
Dr. Eric Svenson pioneered work demonstrating electroshock treatments following castration showed great promise for the more seriously disordered. When followed by a strict regiment of drug therapy for life nearly all patients never have return of symptoms. Japanese and Soviet researchers found that combinations of all these techniques for treatment have very high cure rates and insignificant fatalities when performed properly.** Lobotomy, castration and electroshock, followed by drug therapy for the most difficult cases had 100% success in curing the patients and under 22% fatality in our own studies conducted in Argentina, Brazil, and Columbia. The milder cases had few fatalities.**

I dare say Svenson could cure you of religion with the same techniques.
 
40.png
2perfection:
Dr. Eric Svenson pioneered work demonstrating electroshock treatments following castration showed great promise for the more seriously disordered. When followed by a strict regiment of drug therapy for life nearly all patients never have return of symptoms. Japanese and Soviet researchers found that combinations of all these techniques for treatment have very high cure rates and insignificant fatalities when performed properly.** Lobotomy, castration and electroshock, followed by drug therapy for the most difficult cases had 100% success in curing the patients and under 22% fatality in our own studies conducted in Argentina, Brazil, and Columbia. The milder cases had few fatalities.**

I dare say Svenson could cure you of religion with the same techniques.
I dare say he could cure you of heresy and open your eyes to the truth.
 
40.png
2perfection:
Dr. Eric Svenson pioneered work demonstrating electroshock treatments following castration showed great promise for the more seriously disordered. When followed by a strict regiment of drug therapy for life nearly all patients never have return of symptoms. Japanese and Soviet researchers found that combinations of all these techniques for treatment have very high cure rates and insignificant fatalities when performed properly.** Lobotomy, castration and electroshock, followed by drug therapy for the most difficult cases had 100% success in curing the patients and under 22% fatality in our own studies conducted in Argentina, Brazil, and Columbia. The milder cases had few fatalities.**

I dare say Svenson could cure you of religion with the same techniques.
I am not following your point?
 
40.png
Topher:
I dare say he could cure you of heresy and open your eyes to the truth.
Well, he and the Inquisition both used torture…oh, i see your point.
 
40.png
2perfection:
Large-scale surveys show dramatic declines in religiosity in favor of secularization in the developed democracies. Popular acceptance of evolutionary science correlates negatively with levels of religiosity, and the United States is the only prosperous nation where the majority absolutely believes in a creator and evolutionary science is unpopular. Abundant data is available on rates of societal dysfunction and health in the first world. Cross-national comparisons of highly differing rates of religiosity and societal conditions form a mass epidemiological experiment that can be used to test whether high rates of belief in and worship of a creator are necessary for high levels of social health. Data correlations show that in almost all regards the highly secular democracies consistently enjoy low rates of societal dysfunction, while pro-religious and anti-evolution America performs poorly.
Premiss 1: The population of the US tend to believe in a creator and not in evolution.
Premiss 2: The US has high levels of ‘societal dysfunction’ (what a wonderfully broad term!).
Premiss 3: Some other countries have different belief trends.
Premiss 4: These other countries have lower levels of ‘societal dysfunction’.
Conclusion: There is an identifiable causal relationship between belief trends and ‘societal dysfunction’.
Sorry, Perfection, but wherever these guys studied logic, they should go back and ask for a refund.

Apart from the glaring failure to isolate factors, even if there is a causal relationship, it could run in the opposite direction: religious belief rates are likely to be higher because of social upheaval.
Source article (watch yourselves…its painful) moses.creighton.edu/JRS/toc/current.html
The ‘article’, really little more than a short essay with some charts added, is a poor excuse for social science, pursuing an obvious ideological agenda in its attempt to find data to ‘support’ a conclusion. The most glaring methodological error is utter lack of any attempt at rigour: no effort is made to isolate ‘factors’ in order to accurately identify their effects. Were it submitted to me in an undergraduate course, I would possibly give it a C+, for effort.

A little time in the local library will reveal the well-documented fact that any universalised ideological system naturally tends to reduce ‘societal dysfunction’, i.e., cultural variation. Religions are such ideological systems, but so are political beliefs, scientific beliefs, philosophical beliefs, etc. Any collection of ideas which propagates itself via discourse works in the same manner, just so long as it can achieve ideological hegemony. The People’s Republic of China is a great example of what happens when no ideological system has hegemony: feudalism, corruption, and extremely high levels of crime.

My personal favourite was this:
“A few hundred years ago rates of homicide were astronomical in Christian Europe and the American colonies (Beeghley; R. Lane)”.

This is interesting, considering that homicide rates were not actually collated until in European countries before the middle of the nineteenth century (q.v. Barbara T. Gates, Victorian Suicide: Mad Crimes and Sad Histories, Princeton UP, Princeton, 1988).
Actually…
now I think about I read an article that showed a correlation between theism and raod safety. Devout jews we more dangerous pedestrians believing god would protect them. I wish i could source it.
There are numerous examples of this: people with an ideology which presents a positive afterlife tend to care less about death. The Vikings valiantly fought to the death in the ‘knowledge’ that, in doing so, they would inspire the Valkyrior to carry them off to Valhalla.
 
40.png
Mystophilus:
There are numerous examples of this: people with an ideology which presents a positive afterlife tend to care less about death. The Vikings valiantly fought to the death in the ‘knowledge’ that, in doing so, they would inspire the Valkyrior to carry them off to Valhalla.
2 things.

They said they hadnt done a full regression analysis and I went ‘hmmmm’, but at least premis 1 & 2 are true, you can check for yourself. Actually, having read a number of your posts, i expect you to check.

and I saw the reverse flow of causality as well, but either way is good, become more secular and your lives become more peaceful…or become more peaceful and enjoy the benefits of secularism. 😃 😃 😃 😃

Oh, I spilt my milk!
 
2perfection said:
2 things.

They said they hadnt done a full regression analysis and I went ‘hmmmm’, but at least premis 1 & 2 are true, you can check for yourself. Actually, having read a number of your posts, i expect you to check.

and I saw the reverse flow of causality as well, but either way is good, become more secular and your lives become more peaceful…or become more peaceful and enjoy the benefits of secularism. 😃 😃 😃 😃

Oh, I spilt my milk!

Holding up the US as a religious society is a joke. As best we have a 50 - 50 split between secular leaning and religious leaning citizens. What this study shows is that it not healthy to have a split society. If you go back through history, you see the societies that had the best success were (in no particular order) Christian, Hindu, Islam and Jewish societies. There has not been one long term successful secular society.
 
40.png
2perfection:
you can check for yourself. Actually, having read a number of your posts, i expect you to check.
I already had done so, thanks. 😃

Why is that so rare, here? It is not as if the information is difficult to locate.
either way is good, become more secular and your lives become more peaceful…or become more peaceful and enjoy the benefits of secularism.
Would that it were that easy!

Unfortunately, should you and I become more secular, our lives would not then become more peaceful, an unfortunate fact which is evidenced frequently here in these fora. Only if everyone became more secular would it work, just as it would if everyone became devout about the same religion or even the same philosophy: complete ideological uniformity = complete social harmony. This, of course, is the reason for the self-sustaining narratives built into all successful ideologies, and was the other reason why Marx loathed religion: social harmony obscures class consciousness.

Personally, given the choice between a society with ideological homogeneity and one with ideological heterogeneity, I would always choose the latter. It is more interesting, and more productive, and, in my heretical opinion, those benefits outweigh the disadvantages. I regard it as the ideological version of biodiversity.
 
(in no particular order) Christian, Hindu, Islam and Jewish societies. There has not been one long term successful secular society.
In no particular order, other than alphabetical order. DUN DUN DUNNNN :eek: 😛
 
40.png
Topher:
Absolutely! anything that would contradict the most obvious truth that homosexuality is disordered is disordered. I mean, even a child can see this.
**THE **PARTS DO NOT FIT !!! :confused:

IT IS OUT OF ORDER!!! 😦

**DO NOT PRACTICE :bigyikes: **

**PERIOD!! :whacky: **
 
40.png
Mystophilus:
I already had done so, thanks. 😃

Why is that so rare, here? It is not as if the information is difficult to locate. .
There’s a panic on. Also I dont think peole really like many of the implications of new knowledge, it undermines so much doctrine. The pronblem could lie in the fact that empirical evidence doesnt carry moral lessons per se, and that all outcomes in the material sense, depend on the starting conditions.

Thus the absolute belief in identical starting conditions (in this instance, the presence of a soul in gods image, which has attributes a-n) is more important than say, socioeconomic class, exposure to childhood trauma, impaired judgement through illness, and the like.

Knowledge is very dangerous to faith if your faith is static and you have bowed to others autority. Indeed, part of the process of growing up is to reconcile your knowledge with your parents and learning to differentiate the essential relationship and commonality from the differences.

Well, that’s my theory. In a world of change some people can cope, others cant.
40.png
Mystophilus:
Unfortunately, should you and I become more secular, our lives would not then become more peaceful, an unfortunate fact which is evidenced frequently here in these fora.
I cant really speak freely here, but I believe in small steps. The universe doesnt fall apart because something changes. I enjoy learning about the catholic belief system as an adult, and though some of the views are outright strange and alien, a perversion of reason and facts. It is informative and I feel more able to defend christians in other forums w=hich are much more secular in bent (with e tendency to blame religion ofr everythign).
 
2perfection said:
There’s a panic on. Also I dont think peole really like many of the implications of new knowledge
, it undermines so much doctrine. The pronblem could lie in the fact that empirical evidence doesnt carry moral lessons per se, and that all outcomes in the material sense, depend on the starting conditions.

Thus the absolute belief in identical starting conditions (in this instance, the presence of a soul in gods image, which has attributes a-n) is more important than say, socioeconomic class, exposure to childhood trauma, impaired judgement through illness, and the like.

Knowledge is very dangerous to faith if your faith is static and you have bowed to others autority. Indeed, part of the process of growing up is to reconcile your knowledge with your parents and learning to differentiate the essential relationship and commonality from the differences.

Well, that’s my theory. In a world of change some people can cope, others cant.

Well, that is *your *theory and personal opinion.

BTW: knowledge does not equal truth; truth is the fullness of reality; wisdom is the acceptance of the fullness of reality; and as Christians we know beyond empirical evidence that the Truth is Jesus Christ.
 
40.png
felra:
Well, that is *your *
theory and personal opinion. ]

Yes, and its worth exactly what you paid for it.
40.png
felra:
BTW: knowledge does not equal truth; truth is the fullness of reality; wisdom is the acceptance of the fullness of reality; and as Christians we know beyond empirical evidence that the Truth is Jesus Christ.
What is Truth (as you mean to capitalise it, though you dont) when knowledge contradicts it? Rejection of either is a lie. SO they must be reconciled.

I dont see that happening.
 
40.png
2perfection:
What is Truth (as you mean to capitalise it, though you dont) when knowledge contradicts it? Rejection of either is a lie. SO they must be reconciled.

I dont see that happening.
You question echoes in a mimic of *Pilate making his sarcastic query to the Truth incarnate before him. The apparent contradiction was shattered with the resurrection of the deceased body of Jesus who reconciled all things created unto Himself.

As our **St. Paul of the new testament stated “Knowledge is insufficient, …in the end only three things last, that is faith, hope and love”. I do not mean to leave you high and dry here, but that is where you will be unless you too submit to the Truth (who is also the Way and the Life). As the song goes, “You gotta have faith, …”, which requires accepting the gift of faith (and unlike Pilate sincerely asking and then sticking aound long enough to listen to the answer) to see clearly.

*John 18: 37-38 " Pilate said to him, “So you are a king?” Jesus answered, “You say that I am a king. For this I was born, and for this I have come into the world, to bear witness to the truth. Every one who is of the truth hears my voice.” Pilate said to him, “What is truth?” After he had said this, he went out to the Jews again, and told them, “I find no crime in him.”

**1 Corinthians 13: 9-13 “For our knowledge is imperfect and our prophecy is imperfect; but when the perfect comes, the imperfect will pass away. When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child; when I became a man, I gave up childish ways. For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall understand fully, even as I have been fully understood. So faith, hope, love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love.”
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top