'Harry Potter and yoga are evil', says Catholic Church exorcist

[Gabriel_Serafin]

I never said that HP is spiritually harmful. I said it can be, just like almost everything else can be if used in the wrong way.

So let’s get this straight; you claim Harry Potter can be spiritually harmful if children use what they learn “in the wrong way.” It sounds to me that now you’re agreeing with Fr. Amorth.

I get upset at people like you who say that HP introduces children to the world of sorcery because the two don’t even remotely resemble each other

I think you get upset because you don’t like to hear people criticize something you find entertaining. You just stated that HP has the potential to be spiritually harmful to children. Spiritually harmful in what way?

It’s not “good”, but it’s not necessarily bad. Depicting sin is not wrong, or we would have to throw out the bible which depicts many, many sins.

The Bible is Salvation History and it doesn’t “depict sin” for entertainment purposes. The Bible condemns sin because it offends God and hurts man, and Scripture harshly condemns sorcery and the dabbling with the occult. But you get upset with parents and exorcists who believe this movie shows children are practicing something the Bible condemns. That’s goofy. After all, God entrusts children to their parents and Jesus Himself gave a stern warning against teaching children to sin.

And again, the bible condemns witchcraft and sorcery, which, despite the same names, are not even remotely similar to what goes on in HP.

So what do you call what HP and his friend are doing? What exactly does Harry Potter learn from the Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry?

 

[Gabriel_Serafin]

** Originally Posted by twf View Post**
I’ve noticed that those arguing against Harry Potter in this thread haven’t even attempted to address the many well thought out arguments, presented earlier in this thread by a few posters, that the series does in fact promote Christian values and is full of many deliberate and even explicit Christian metaphors, allegories, and symbolism. As illustrated in this very thread, Rowling herself is a Christian and has implied in public that her books include allegorical elements.

Counterfeit money looks like real money too. It’s good to show Christian values in movies, but not when it is doing something evil. Teaching children that sorcery can be used for good is a Satanic lie. The big problem people have with this movie is that it is geared for children, especially when the Bible explicitly states that the servants of Satan disguise themselves as servants of righteousness—deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ…(2 Corinthians 11:13-15).

 

[Farsight001]

So let’s get this straight; you claim Harry Potter can be spiritually harmful if children use what they learn “in the wrong way.” It sounds to me that now you’re agreeing with Fr. Amorth.

Not really. Fr. Amorth seems to suggest that HP is always harmful and should be avoided. I believe that HP is only harmful insofar as anything can be harmful if used in the wrong way.

I think you get upset because you don’t like to hear people criticize something you find entertaining. You just stated that HP has the potential to be spiritually harmful to children. Spiritually harmful in what way?

I’m not upset, so your claim really has no merit. I don’t like it when I explain that there is a huge difference between HP and the occult and you all keep talking like they’re the same and I never said a thing.

The Bible is Salvation History and it doesn’t “depict sin” for entertainment purposes. The Bible condemns sin because it offends God and hurts man, and Scripture harshly condemns sorcery and the dabbling with the occult. But you get upset with parents and exorcists who believe this movie shows children are practicing something the Bible condemns. That’s goofy. After all, God entrusts children to their parents and Jesus Himself gave a stern warning against teaching children to sin.

You’re moving the goal posts. You suggested that HP was bad because it depicts sin, no other reason provided. Now you give a differing reason, and once again equate HP with the occult when they are not remotely similar.

So what do you call what HP and his friend are doing? What exactly does Harry Potter learn from the Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry?

He learns wizardry, but as I already explained several times, as have several other posters, which you have not so much as acknowledged yet, is that the wizardry of HP and the occult are absolutely nothing alike. You cannot call them the same thing simply because they share a name. Such an idea is ludicrous.

 

[Gabriel_Serafin]

Gabriel Serafin

Why would I immitate the devil, if that were possible? No, I would not.
But Yoga doesn’t represent the posses of the Hindu god as you claim.

The yoga you practice in the YMCA and which millions of Americans are familiar with is Hatha yoga, which uses various postures called asanas. Many asanas in yoga are based on postures that honor Hindu deities who manifest themselves in forms such as the sun, the tiger, the tree, the snake, etc. Asanas are designed to aid in meditation and to strengthen the body for the mental exercises leading to realization of the true divine self. As yoga students practice the physical positions, many eventually become ready to investigate the spiritual component which is the entire essence of the yoga itself.

I think that Catholics who use their bodies to practice pantheistic techniques designed to honor Hindu deities are not being very wise, because your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit.

FYI, Hindu’s don’t worship the statues, you as a Catholic should know better.

I know they don’t, and I never said they worshiped statues. Hinduism teaches believe in Pantheism. But many of the shapes you pose your body in yoga represent different Hindu deities. This is no secret. I just wonder why anyone would want to do this, especially

Stretching exercises are what Yoga is.

Not true. Yoga itself is the attempt to unite with the an impersonal divine force through the divine Self-realization. Hinduism, teaches that man’s innate nature is God itself.

I don’t mean to be rude, but you seem very ignorant of just what Yoga exercise is, and how it’s separate from Hindu spirituality.

Based on some of your statements it seems like you need to study a little more about what Yoga actually is. exercises are the essence of yoga itself. Thus to do yoga is to misuse your body (a temple of the Holy Spirit), being that yoga itself is a mechanism for spirituality. Man is body and spirit.

Don’t you know that you yourselves are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit dwells in your midst? If anyone destroys God’s temple, God will destroy that person; for God’s temple is sacred, and you together are that temple. (1 Cor. 3:16-17)

“Yoga is incompatible with Catholicism because the best known practice of Hindu spirituality is Yoga. “Inner” Hinduism professes pantheism, which denies that there is only one infinite Being who created the world out of nothing.”–Fr. John A. Hardon S.J.

img97.imageshack.us/img97/5941/94183655.jpg

Uploaded with ImageShack.us
http://www.yogapah.com/july-retreat/hatha-yoga-1stclass.JPG

 

[Gabriel_Serafin]

I believe that HP is only harmful insofar as anything can be harmful if used in the wrong way…

Again, spiritually harmful to children in what way?

 

[Chaplain777]

In regards to Yoga and Harry Potter, well, the Bible says this:

8 “If your hand or foot causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you. It is better for you to enter into life lame or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet, to be cast into the everlasting fire. 9 And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you. It is better for you to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire. (Matt:18)

Both of these passages start with “if” so I think we need to be able to discern where the attack can come from. I also think that were I satan I would not appear in full red suite, horns and pitch fork, which would scare the stuffings out of anyone, so, I would come in the guise of something good, or something innocuous so as to subtly direct folks away from God.

I also would not, nor will not diss a man who has not wrestled … against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age,***a] against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. (Eph: 6) …*his whole life!

We are not smarter than the enemy, to think so is foolish. I think that we should have an open mind and be cautious about the tactics the enemy will use against us.

 

[Farsight001]

Again, spiritually harmful to children in what way?

I already specified and explained. I should not have to do so again. If you weren’t paying attention, it’s your fault and it’s your job to remedy it, not mine.

 

[curlycool89]

So what do you call what HP and his friend are doing? What exactly does Harry Potter learn from the Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry?

You ignored my post, didn’t you?

Yes, of course he did. It’s hard to take when someone’s logic is better then yours. After all, as Cracked.com has pointed out, we’re programmed to “win”, not to seek truth. So when someone makes a good logical point, it’s much easier to ignore it then to actually concede that you may be wrong.

Actually, what is the chance that he has me on ignore? It’s not like it hasn’t happened before when people get annoyed by, you know, logic and critical thinking and such.
How ironic, that the followers of the Church that founded the modern western university system would be so allergic - intolerant even - of critical thinking. It’s sometimes hard to believe, especially by those in the secular world, that a Catholic priest first hypothesized the Big Bang theory (and won arguments against Einstein), and that a monk discovered Genetics, when some Catholics seem to be of the opinion that logic is from Satan.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Gabriel Serafin

The yoga you practice in the YMCA and which millions of Americans are familiar with is Hatha yoga, which uses various postures called asanas. Many asanas in yoga are based on postures that honor Hindu deities who manifest themselves in forms such as the sun, the tiger, the tree, the snake, etc.

People see God in such things, St Francis of Assisi saw God in everything, including the dirt of the earth, where he once picked up a handful and stated, he could feel the pulse of God with in it. He referred to the Sun and Moon as brother and sister.

The is nothing evil in this.

But the postures being that of mimicking the postures and creatures that God revealed himself as to Hindus, has never been taught to me.

Instead, they are the postures found in nature. Baby’s posse, downward facing dog, cobra. Things we see in nature. Whether one uses this in a pantheistic way or not is the difference between a Catholic doing Yoga and a non-Christian.

As a Catholic, I’m offering my exercise to God, for it takes sacrifice to get out of bed in the morning and do the work out. It also takes physical exertion, which makes it so physically beneficial.

Asanas are designed to aid in meditation and to strengthen the body for the mental exercises leading to realization of the true divine self.

Yea, I prayer and meditate much better when I do Yoga regularly. This is a good thing, not a bad.

As yoga students practice the physical positions, many eventually become ready to investigate the spiritual component which is the entire essence of the yoga itself.

Yes, non-Christians often are led into the spiritual aspects of Yoga, which are not harmful in themselves. In fact, I’ve known many converts to Catholicism, who came through Eastern Religions.

In their journey, God led, they followed.

I think that Catholics who use their bodies to practice pantheistic techniques designed to honor Hindu deities are not being very wise, because your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit.

Catholics like myself don’t use the techniques to honor Hindu deities, it’s where you’re confused.

Anyway, you don’t like it, don’t do it.

Jim

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Here’s and interesting article on what some people today call, “Christian Yoga, or Stretching for Jesus.”

swamij.com/christian-yoga.htm

This part of the commentary at the bottom was interesting.

Hinduism teaches that yoga, which literally means union of the body and mind in a quest to unite the soul with God, is comprised of eight steps of which the popularly practiced postures are an integral part. Indeed, the ultimate goal of yoga and Hinduism is one and the same: union with God. As a pluralistic and tolerant religion, Hinduism teaches-and every yoga teacher can attest-that one need not become a Hindu or repudiate their own faith to practice yoga and reap its immense benefits.

For me and many other Christians who do Yoga, union with Jesus Christ has been my desire. Union of mind and body, helps in this because the physical and mental benefits are conducive to prayer and meditation.

For me as a Secular Order Carmelite, Carmelite Spirituality and the practice of Yoga, are very compatible.

As St Paul taught, “pray unceasingly” means being one with God in every aspect of life, whether it’s exercising or just walking down the street.

The more focused we are to the present, where God is, the more humble we become.

Anyway, what the Vatican’s Exorcist is saying about Yoga, has to do with tradition Raja Yoga, but it’s even more about the individual who goes into this without a faith in Jesus Christ.

Having read much about demonic possession and the process that it involves, I understand the spiritual danger an individual who is not spiritually centered on God, who could end up in trouble.

But lets be clear about one thing, Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI, in no way would condemn Hinduism as being Satanic and it’s members as being demonically possessed.

So, stating that a devote Christian doing Yoga would be open to demonic possession, would an error.

Jesus is more powerful than Satan, and He will not allow a person who seeks union with Him, to be overcome by demonic forces.

Jim

 

[LemonAndLime]

I always thought it was silly that you can be sinning without you knowing it if you’re doing yoga.

Cause surely a big part of sinning is knowing that you’re sinning, and having the intent of carrying out a sin, right?

 

[Cormacnl]

The potential harm that could be caused by Harry Potter can apparently be spotted straight away using Catholic moral expertise.

How come the same clarity of thought wasn’t brought to bear years ago in relation to sex abuse by members of the clergy?

 

[Faith1960]

I’m glad we have spiritual leaders to warn us about this stuff. I’d hate to do anything that would pull me away from Christ, the source of my hope and joy.

I took a yoga class, which incidentally, was held at my parish, for a short time. I quit because it was too darned hard to do! Our pastor eventually cut out the program because it wasn’t Christian or whatever, but really, NO ONE I know from my parish who does yoga is interested in, or likely to ever become Hindu.
In fact one of my fellow parishioners has opened up a yoga studio.

 

[LemonAndLime]

If Yoga, a practice originally Hindu, makes me a Hindu by doing it then…

Surely eating falafal, an Egyptian dish, makes me Muslim?

Or dancing the Tango makes me a European prostitute dancing with my pimp?

Perhaps eating pizza makes me Italian?

Eating beef makes me a cow?

 

[Faith1960]

Actually the postures in Yoga are from nature.

In fact, having done Yoga exercise off and on for the past 20 years, the very first thing I noticed in watching my grandson, when he was just a toddler, is that he was doing yoga movements, but easily, because his muscles are loose, not tense like adults.

Anyway, it’s a fact, Yoga exercise is good for the body.

If you do engage in sports of physical fitness, you’ll end up doing some Yoga, for stretching, because being the benefits are so good, all trainers use Yoga in some form in their training regimes.

What makes any thing spiritually dangerous, is the reason you’re doing it.

If Jesus Christ is the center of your life, you don’t have to worry about the devil possessing you because of the physical exercise you do, or watching Harry Potter or the Wizard of Oz

Jim

That’s how I’ve always felt about it, but now, after a year or more of reading this stuff, yoga makes me a little leary. It’s a moot point for me, anyway, because yoga was one of the hardest formes of exercise I’ve ever tried and I’m done with it.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

That’s how I’ve always felt about it, but now, after a year or more of reading this stuff, yoga makes me a little leary. It’s a moot point for me, anyway, because yoga was one of the hardest formes of exercise I’ve ever tried and I’m done with it.

Problem is, you’re probably reading the stuff you see in Catholic and Christian forums, which is misleading…

As the article I posted stated, if you’re not doing Yoga for spiritual benefit, whatever that spiritual benefit is, it’s not actually Yoga, but merely exercise.

So, most Catholics who do Yoga, are merely doing exercise, no different than doing calisthenics

Jim

 

[Faith1960]

Problem is, you’re probably reading the stuff you see in Catholic and Christian forums, which is misleading…

As the article I posted stated, if you’re not doing Yoga for spiritual benefit, whatever that spiritual benefit is, it’s not actually Yoga, but merely exercise.

So, most Catholics who do Yoga, are merely doing exercise, no different than doing calisthenics

Jim

That was how my yoga classes were, until the end of class. Then we had a period of time where we layed down on our mats to do a relaxation thing where our instuctor dimmed the lights and we layed there, freeing our minds, breathing in and out while some Eastern or New Agey music softly played in the background.

 

[Fone_Bone_2001]

But you get upset with parents and exorcists who believe this movie shows children are practicing something the Bible condemns.

It does not depict children practicing something the Bible condemns.

Witchcraft/sorcery/divination/etc. - which Scripture and Tradition condemn - is real.

What is practiced in Harry Potter is something entirely made up, something not real.

Thus, they are different and not the same.

Counterfeit money looks like real money too. It’s good to show Christian values in movies, but not when it is doing something evil.

None of the “magic” in Harry Potter is evil, because it is literally the same type of act as the “magic” of Tolkien’s elves. That is not what the Bible condemns; it is, instead, something completely made up that the Bible therefore doesn’t address at all.

Teaching children that sorcery can be used for good is a Satanic lie.

As we’ve been attempting to help you understand, there is no sorcery in Harry Potter. Not one character ever in any way obtains unnatural power from preternatural evil spirits - or even spirits of any kind. Their abilities seem magical but are entirely natural, inborn abilities of what is in fact a subspecies of the human race.

And yes, the series is chock full of gloriously wholesome Christian elements.

In regards to Yoga and Harry Potter, well, the Bible says this:

8 “If your hand or foot causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you. It is better for you to enter into life lame or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet, to be cast into the everlasting fire. 9 And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you. It is better for you to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire. (Matt:18)

Both of these passages start with “if” so I think we need to be able to discern where the attack can come from. I also think that were I satan I would not appear in full red suite, horns and pitch fork, which would scare the stuffings out of anyone, so, I would come in the guise of something good, or something innocuous so as to subtly direct folks away from God.

I also would not, nor will not diss a man who has not wrestled … against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age,****a] against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. (Eph: 6) …his whole life!

We are not smarter than the enemy, to think so is foolish. I think that we should have an open mind and be cautious about the tactics the enemy will use against us.

The principle behind such a warning is true, but it cannot apply to Harry Potter, since there’s nothing morally or spiritually insidious about the series. It’s quite wholesome and Christian in its themes, structure, and imagery. It glorifies good and villifies evil in a very black-and-white way, and it doesn’t actually depict any sorcery. The “magic” of the series is of an entirely fictional and natural structure.

 

[LemonAndLime]

Did you also know that if you even visited a non-Christian country, you are supporting their religion?

 

[Vis_Fati]

Wow…first it’s Harry Potter, now it’s Yoga. I have never heard anything so ridiculous in my lifetime. Pretty soon Breathing will be a sin.

It is. Surely, you’ve heard.