'Harry Potter and yoga are evil', says Catholic Church exorcist

[Chaplain777]

…The principle behind such a warning is true, but it cannot apply to Harry Potter, since there’s nothing morally or spiritually insidious about the series. It’s quite wholesome and Christian in its themes, structure, and imagery. It glorifies good and villifies evil in a very black-and-white way, and it doesn’t actually depict any sorcery. The “magic” of the series is of an entirely fictional and natural structure.

I concede that you make a good point, but I wonder if a 10 or 12 year old can discern the differences you state?

 

[archangel04]

Yoga should be avoided by Catholics, simply because it is contrary to our faith. Most do not realize that the bodily positions in Yoga exercises are poses of the different Hindu gods. In Hinduism worship is done through bodily poses, and each pose represents the different gods that are being worshiped. In Yoga, a pose is held for 20-30 seconds at a time, and then switches to another pose. Thus an hour of Yoga is an hour of bodily worship of the different gods represented in many of the poses, so I can see why Fr. Amorth might tell people to avoid Yoga…
http://yogaworldtours.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/Yoga_2.jpg

Lol you do know that kneeling is not originally a Christian posture right? Many other types of worships used this "praying’ posture before Christianity. A stretch or posture is just that! Unless you heart and mind have another intention. Just because I bend my knee to tie my shoe does not mean I am giving homage to someone.

 

[curlycool89]

I concede that you make a good point, but I wonder if a 10 or 12 year old can discern the differences you state?

We can ask the same question about Narnia (Lucy uses magic in Dawn Treader, which I would say is even more ambiguous than Harry Potter) or about Gandalf or Saruman in Lord of the Rings (who are both explicitly stated to be the same type of character and use the same magic).

So why do they escape scrutiny when Harry Potter doesn’t? The “appropriate” age group is no excuse either, as Narnia is aimed at the same age group as Harry Potter.

 

[jilly4ski]

I concede that you make a good point, but I wonder if a 10 or 12 year old can discern the differences you state?

lol, I would say most 10 to 12 year olds would consider all magic as fake and impossible. They tend to be very skeptical of this kid of stuff. (Obviously not every child), Of course, any child would realize that HP magic is fake the first time they try to make an object come to them by waving a stick and saying “accio object.”

 

[Catholic90]

lol, I would say most 10 to 12 year olds would consider all magic as fake and impossible. They tend to be very skeptical of this kid of stuff. (Obviously not every child), Of course, any child would realize that HP magic is fake the first time they try to make an object come to them by waving a stick and saying “accio object.”

I’ve tried and tried to do what Mrs. Weasley did to clean her house…does not work, unfortunately… Sigh…must do it the old fashioned way…sigh…

 

[Fone_Bone_2001]

I concede that you make a good point, but I wonder if a 10 or 12 year old can discern the differences you state?

I don’t think they need to. Its structural dissimilarity to real-world occultism corresponds to a conspicuous aesthetic dissimilarity as well. No one is going to read a story in which Harry Potter raises his phoenix tail feather-containing stick, shouts “Accio Firebolt!”, receives a broom that flies into his hands on its own, then rides around on it evading a fire-breathing dragon in order to steal a magic singing egg, and then somehow feel attracted to Wiccan, New Age, or any occult practice because of it. They don’t look alike, sound alike, taste alike, smell alike, feel alike.

If anything, the morally and spiritually positive themes and Christian structure of the series is what will make an impression on a young person. I’m only in my twenties now, but let me tell you - and this is one example among many, I assure you - it sure was helpful for me as a teenager facing the difficulty of the Church’s counter-cultural, hard moral teachings to have the voice of Albus Dumbledore in my head exhorting me to remember “the difference between what is right, and what is easy” when I face a morally relevant choice.

 

[Chaplain777]

I concede that you make a good point, but I wonder if a 10 or 12 year old can discern the differences you state?

We can ask the same question about Narnia (Lucy uses magic in Dawn Treader, which I would say is even more ambiguous than Harry Potter) or about Gandalf or Saruman in Lord of the Rings (who are both explicitly stated to be the same type of character and use the same magic).

So why do they escape scrutiny when Harry Potter doesn’t? The “appropriate” age group is no excuse either, as Narnia is aimed at the same age group as Harry Potter.

lol, I would say most 10 to 12 year olds would consider all magic as fake and impossible. They tend to be very skeptical of this kid of stuff. (Obviously not every child), Of course, any child would realize that HP magic is fake the first time they try to make an object come to them by waving a stick and saying “accio object.”

I don’t think they need to. Its structural dissimilarity to real-world occultism corresponds to a conspicuous aesthetic dissimilarity as well. No one is going to read a story in which Harry Potter raises his phoenix tail feather-containing stick, shouts “Accio Firebolt!”, receives a broom that flies into his hands on its own, then rides around on it evading a fire-breathing dragon in order to steal a magic singing egg, and then somehow feel attracted to Wiccan, New Age, or any occult practice because of it. They don’t look alike, sound alike, taste alike, smell alike, feel alike.

If anything, the morally and spiritually positive themes and Christian structure of the series is what will make an impression on a young person. I’m only in my twenties now, but let me tell you - and this is one example among many, I assure you - it sure was helpful for me as a teenager facing the difficulty of the Church’s counter-cultural, hard moral teachings to have the voice of Albus Dumbledore in my head exhorting me to remember “the difference between what is right, and what is easy” when I face a morally relevant choice.

I see the points you all are making, but I wonder if it is our own personal experiences that limit our responses. I guess we see healthy well-rounded youngsters go to these movies and come out quite entertained having had great fun! Yet I have seen so many youngsters younger than 10 or 12 muling drugs, getting their first kill to be accepted into a gang, etc. I have to wonder sometimes if these are ones who, like you say know the difference between HP magic and the real world, but still are left with the impression that sometimes you need a “power” other than yourself, i.e. a gun, a gang, drugs to take control of a situation or circumstances? I dunno, maybe I’m just jaded or cynical…

 

[jilly4ski]

I see the points you all are making, but I wonder if it is our own personal experiences that limit our responses. I guess we see healthy well-rounded youngsters go to these movies and come out quite entertained having had great fun! Yet I have seen so many youngsters younger than 10 or 12 muling drugs, getting their first kill to be accepted into a gang, etc. I have to wonder sometimes if these are ones who, like you say know the difference between HP magic and the real world, but still are left with the impression that sometimes you need a “power” other than yourself, i.e. a gun, a gang, drugs to take control of a situation or circumstances? I dunno, maybe I’m just jaded or cynical…

Except that these kids that are in gangs, drugs, and guns are statistically not the ones reading. Thus this precludes them from reading HP. As for seeing the movies, I suppose they could have, but they aren’t going to think the magic is anymore real that other well behaved kids. Also, kids into gangs, drugs, and guns are not the ones getting into the occult. They do not have the time or influences or reading ability to learn about the occult. They certainly don’t learn that they need guns, drugs, or gangs to gain power from HP, but rather from the environment around them and real world examples and people who have influence over them.

 

[Neil_Anthony]

I see the points you all are making, but I wonder if it is our own personal experiences that limit our responses. I guess we see healthy well-rounded youngsters go to these movies and come out quite entertained having had great fun! Yet I have seen so many youngsters younger than 10 or 12 muling drugs, getting their first kill to be accepted into a gang, etc. I have to wonder sometimes if these are ones who, like you say know the difference between HP magic and the real world, but still are left with the impression that sometimes you need a “power” other than yourself, i.e. a gun, a gang, drugs to take control of a situation or circumstances? I dunno, maybe I’m just jaded or cynical…

Now Harry Potter causes gang killings? Okay, I’m taking a seat and going to get some popcorn

 

[Gift_from_God]

Yoga is just a form of exercise and Harry Potter is just a work of fiction. Why do people attack Harry Potter and not Cinderella or the Sword in the Stone?

 

[Chaplain777]

Except that these kids that are in gangs, drugs, and guns are statistically not the ones reading. Thus this precludes them from reading HP. As for seeing the movies, I suppose they could have, but they aren’t going to think the magic is anymore real that other well behaved kids. Also, kids into gangs, drugs, and guns are not the ones getting into the occult. They do not have the time or influences or reading ability to learn about the occult. They certainly don’t learn that they need guns, drugs, or gangs to gain power from HP, but rather from the environment around them and real world examples and people who have influence over them.

OK, if you say so. I’ll defer to your in depth knowledge of gangs, drugs and popular media and their effects on our culture…

Now Harry Potter causes gang killings? Okay, I’m taking a seat and going to get some popcorn

You’re so silly…:tsktsk:

Yoga is just a form of exercise and Harry Potter is just a work of fiction. Why do people attack Harry Potter and not Cinderella or the Sword in the Stone?

Because HP and yoga are the subjects of this thread, not Cinderella. Yoga is NOT just a form of exercise there is definitely a spiritual side to it. Martial Arts can be the same way…been there. HP gets a lot of attention because it is so popular. When cinderella came out earliest versions date back to the 1st century, then again in the mid 1600s…still burning witches at that time so magic is kinda frowned upon…anyways, when Disney made it popular it was a different time for the US, parents were more involved with their kids, values were ok to be talked about in schools, etc. Not so now days. Look, I am not a crusader to rid the planet of HP or yoga, but I say don’t be niave about the issues that come along with each of these subjects.

 

[Gabriel_Serafin]

I think that many people have been reacting based on an emotional attachment to the Harry Potter series instead of understanding the real concerns which normal, intelligent and faithful Catholics have about this series. For example, Catholic apologist Patrick Madrid has explained why he believes the series is nothing but “pretty poison” and why parents should see that their children avoid it.

For those of you interested in an eye-opening book about the influence of this series, please read the book “Harry Potter and the Paganization of Culture” By Michael O’Brien, the author of the best selling book Father Elijah. In his book Harry Potter and the Paganization of Culture, he compares Harry Potter with Narnia and The Lord of the Rings, and specifically between the heroes in these books, unmasking the bad seeds which are definitely in the H.P. series. Also, in his book Landscape with Dragons,he contrasts authentic Christian fantasy literature from those which are pretending to be. For an article by Patrick Madrid on the matter CLICK HERE.

Today, millions of people are being assimilated into a growing pagan culture, and the de-christianization of society is gradually perpetuated through wonderfully presented entertainment which molds and fundamentally alters the structure of human thinking. Today, movies are powerful tools of the devil. But before you push the panic button, realize that no one here is saying you have to throw out your Harry Potter collection. The issue has always been whether these books and movies are suitable for the mind of a child. There’s a reason why some of the same people who love Narnia or the Lord of the Rings do not have the same admiration for the Potter series. Parents are advised to avoid feeding H.P to the mind of the their child for the same reason why adults need to be careful what they put into their minds, because it will shape you and society itself.
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Whether you realize it or not, movies and books will have an effect on you and on society itself. There’s a reason why Catholics fornicate at the same rate as non-Catholics. There’s a reason why 90% of Catholics use artificial contraception despite the teachings of the Church that it is a sin and harms society. There’s a reason why over half of Catholics in America support abortion and rationalize the right to discard human children in trash cans. There’s also a reason why something that was considered pornography or an abomination a few decades ago is now consumed by Catholics and non-Catholics alike as mainstream entertainment.

Fornication, promiscuity, adultery, blasphemy, murder, violence, crime, divorce, idol-making, disrespect of parents, rebellion against authority, mockery of the Church, mockery of Jesus Christ, sorcery, magic, the occult, etc. is what is today we call “mainstream entertainment.” The bigger problem is that these things are spilling into entertainment for children. There are those of you audacious enough to be insulting toward parents, apologists and and even exorcists who caution against exposing the mind of a child to entertainment which presents heroes practicing the occult.

I find it rather amusing (yet troubling and quite silly), that some people heroically rise up to defend entertainment which portrays children practicing sorcery, casting spells and witchcraft. What’s silly is that you angrily claim that the H.P. series is not presenting sorcery, casting spells and witchcraft to children, while Harry—the main hero of the story—attends a boarding school for wizards which teaches “Witchcraft and Wizardry”. I also find it rather foolish of those who dismiss the likes of Fr. Gabriel Amorth.http://www.ewtnnewsonline.com/images/Fr_Gabriele_Amorth_EWTN_World_Catholic_News_5_17_11.jpg

The devil is cunning, and is most dangerous when he portrays evil as good, or good doing evil. But realize that he works with tiny seeds which begin as suggestions which turn into temptations, and he gives a thousand reasons why something wicked and evil it is reasonable, okay and even good. That’s how Satan recruits souls to act as his ambassadors on earth. You think the Church Militant is not fighting a spiritual battle? The battle is for the minds and souls of human beings.

But you are certainly free to get angry, and to take your children to the latest blockbuster Hollywood films depicting sorcery, witchcraft and the occult, and even to tell that old exorcist to shut shut up and mind his business, the silly old fool, how dare he insult your intelligence.
http://disinfo.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/Mémoires-de-lexorciste-officiel-du-Vatican.jpeg
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[LemonAndLime]

Because HP and yoga are the subjects of this thread, not Cinderella. Yoga is NOT just a form of exercise there is definitely a spiritual side to it.

So does that mean that even if you practice Yoga without intending to pay attention to the spiritual side, or even being aware that there is one, that you are still sinning?

 

[LemonAndLime]

img804.imageshack.us/img804/3174/inspired2.jpg

Those are some pretty awesome pictures. Is that what evil people look like? Do good, morally upstanding people wear suits and have halos above their heads?

There was a study published which I can post here for you at your request. It found that of all the teenage subcultures, Goths were more likely to go to university, more likely to be lawyers, and less likely to take part in anti-social behaviour. So go figure. Whatever happened to not judging a book by its cover?

Are we back to the days where evil people look like the childcatcher and good people look like Mary Poppins? I grew out of that stage a few years ago.

 

[meltzerboy]

As my Orthodox Jewish grandmother used to say about certain Orthodox Rabbis with beards, “a beard may hide many sins.” We can’t and shouldn’t judge by appearance.

 

[Sonic]

Okay, I’m taking a seat and going to get some popcorn

Here… I already made some 50 posts back.

In case of fall out and ensuing riots, the popcorn buckets also serve as protective helmets. :slapfight:

 

[Chaplain777]

So does that mean that even if you practice Yoga without intending to pay attention to the spiritual side, or even being aware that there is one, that you are still sinning?

Certainly not! And, you will not find anything that I have posted about this being sinful. My concern is the subtle influence situations like this can have on the unsuspecting and our responsibility as a Catholic community to guide and teach.

There are many catholics who are just beginning their spiritual walk with Christ and as such look to others of the faith for guidance, as there are also Catholics who have been Catholic for a very long time and are also “young” in their spiritual walk. These are the folks that I am concerned about who may step into a situation that can become very important to them and begin to influence their lives. Take me for example, I am quite certain that I could take yoga for the rest of my life several times a week and never be swayed to the spiritual side, but I am stubborn in my faith, not bragging or anything as I am sure there are many here who fall into this same category. BUT, there are MANY who are not that strong in their faith and WE must be careful how we present these subjects so as not to inadvertently guide someone into a situation that they are not spiritually prepared for. This is all that I am saying.

 

[Gabriel_Serafin]

I repeat, normal, intelligent and faithful Catholics have real concerns about the H.P series. Why is this arrogant? It seems to me that you are being rather insulting with people who don’t share your opinion on this. But to think that I’m implying that you are not normal or intelligent is silly. Buyt you need to realize that smart, intelligent and well-informed people don’t share your views on H.P.

I’ve not read Patrick Madrid’s work on this so I won’t comment on his points as in fairness I’d want to read them before venturing an opinion on them.

Mr. Madrid said he believes the series is “pretty poison” and that parents should see to it that their children avoid it… Is that an arrogant super-Catholic attitude too then?

However I have read Michael O’Brien and that work engages in a large, large number of logical fallacies including a prominent use of special pleading on a grand scale.

“logical fallacies”? You mean he disagrees with you so that makes him automatically wrong. I’ve read his work and it he makes lots of sense to me…

people have attempted to point out to you time and time again is that the sorcery in this work is not equivalent to real world sorcery.

Yes, and I happen to disagree with them.

Any more than Gandal’s spells or the centuar Glenstorm’s use of astrology in the Narnia series. but I’d also amusingly point out I learnt the names of far more real occult rituals and demonic creatures from Marvel comics, including the X-men series, than you ever wold from HP.

I would recommend reading O’Brien’s book Landscape with Dragons, where he contrasts authentic Christian fantasy literature from those which are pretending to be, and shows pretty clear evidence that paganism

We do not dismiss Fr.Amorth out of hand, we merely feel this particular subject is one he is not well informed on.

Patrick Madrid is ill informed too?

LemonAndLimeThose are some pretty awesome pictures. Is that what evil people look like?

The pictures merely show the powerful influence which movies, music and television have on a soul. It’s no secret that Marylin Manson is part of the Satanic culture of death. And if you have teenagers I would warn you not to allow them to listen to that type of music.

Do good, morally upstanding people wear suits and have halos above their heads?

No, don’t be silly; of course not. But if dressing like if you’re in a Satanic cult is your lifestyle, you’re probably not living a very healthy spiritual life.

all the teenage subcultures, Goths were more likely to go to university, more likely to be lawyers, and less likely to take part in anti-social behaviour.

honestly, I’d hate to have someone looking like that representing me in court. But what does going to a university have to do with anything we’re talking about? The devil is very intelligent too…

So go figure. Whatever happened to not judging a book by its cover?

What ever happened to society—can’t you see that it’s rotting? Unfortunately, those poor souls are the familiar look of the culture of death. Here, watch this. You get a glimpse of Satan’s influence on the human souls.

Are we back to the days where evil people look like the childcatcher and good people look like Mary Poppins? I grew out of that stage a few years ago.

lol, yes, wait 'till you have your own children and they come home looking like Dracula with a tattoo on their face.

 

[Irish_Eyes_826]

The greatest form of magic in Harry Potter is love. Also, the greatest form of love, is laying down your own life so that others may live. Gee, this sounds familiar.
I just finished reading one of JK Rowling’s later works, *The Tales of Beedle the Bard *, and in it she wrote about the difference between fairy tales in the wizarding world and “Muggle” fairytales. The Muggle fairytales are the ones that we have all grown up hearing, such as Sleeping Beauty or The Sword in the Stone. In these fairy tales the solution often involves solving things through magic, such a breaking a spell or lifting a curse. However, in Rowling’s fairy tales as well as Harry Potter, people with magic abilities still have to solve problems that are above them. They use magic to help them, but ultimately they solve problems through logic, courage, kindness, and sacrifice. All the magic is made up and it is never truly the solution to the problem. Also, though this is not the time to discuss it, there are many Christian themes in the stories.
Additionally, what real magic is there in Harry Potter? I can yell any of those spells until I turn blue, but it’s not going to make anything happen. When one of those priests can prove to me that there is actual magic in the books I’ll stop reading them. Until then, I’ll continue to enjoy them for what they are, make-believe stories.

 

[curlycool89]

For those of you interested in an eye-opening book about the influence of this series, please read the book “Harry Potter and the Paganization of Culture” By Michael O’Brien, the author of the best selling book Father Elijah.

Ok, who’s turn is it to remind everyone what a hack O’Brien is? I think that’s usually
Lost Wanderer’s job.

Again, you’re bringing up arguments that we have thoroughly deconstructed over and over again.

I repeat, normal, intelligent and faithful Catholics have real concerns about the H.P series.

What about the normal, intelligent and faithful Catholics who have no problem with the series?

I hate to toot my own horn, but you don’t get through 4 years of engineering with below-average intelligence (and not to toot my own horn again, but if you were to ask my classmates they’d tell you I’m the fastest exam writer in the class).

So again, false dilemma.

Buyt you need to realize that smart, intelligent and well-informed people don’t share your views on H.P.

I don’t actually have a problem with this, if said people had an intelligent reason behind their view. Your’s does not count as we have demonstrated.