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Guinness
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Harry Potter books removed from St. Edward Catholic School due to 'curses and spells’
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Lou2U
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stpurl
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Well, whether one agrees or disagrees, this is a pastoral decision.
It’s not like the kids can’t read the books from the public library.
I may not agree with the rationale the pastor gave but let’s think of this:
IF the pastor is sincerely convinced that what he is saying is correct, AS the pastor his conscience would require him to act on that conviction.
A lot of people here are conscience-happy. " if my conscience is telling me that something ‘the Catholic church’ says is wrong is NOT wrong, then I would be sinning in going against my conscience.’ You hear that over and over. And most people would say, "Yes, primacy of conscience’. You’ll note that is usually when people are saying something like, “The Church says that contraception is wrong, but I believe in MY situation it’s right, and I’m not going to agree with the Church.” (others, clapping and cheering, “Think for yourself”).
But here’s a question where primacy of conscience is going the ‘other way’, where a priest is holding a position that is presented as actually following, in a narrow way, Catholic teaching. It’s more, "I think we need to be even stricter in keeping our children safe from possible evil influences’ instead of, “I think we need to let our children make their own decisions even if they make sinful ones”. . .and SUDDENLY, ‘primacy of conscience’ is something to deride.
Again, I don’t agree with the priest’s interpretation of the ‘spells’, and I’ve read all the books, liked the first couple, not the later ones, positively disliked the last, but you know what?
We want our priests to lead, let them lead.
The people who are crying, "This makes the Church look so stupid and rigid’ are the same ones yelling when the Church doesn’t move fast enough to be ‘more relevant’.
Darned if we do. . .
It’s not like the kids can’t read the books from the public library.
I may not agree with the rationale the pastor gave but let’s think of this:
IF the pastor is sincerely convinced that what he is saying is correct, AS the pastor his conscience would require him to act on that conviction.
A lot of people here are conscience-happy. " if my conscience is telling me that something ‘the Catholic church’ says is wrong is NOT wrong, then I would be sinning in going against my conscience.’ You hear that over and over. And most people would say, "Yes, primacy of conscience’. You’ll note that is usually when people are saying something like, “The Church says that contraception is wrong, but I believe in MY situation it’s right, and I’m not going to agree with the Church.” (others, clapping and cheering, “Think for yourself”).
But here’s a question where primacy of conscience is going the ‘other way’, where a priest is holding a position that is presented as actually following, in a narrow way, Catholic teaching. It’s more, "I think we need to be even stricter in keeping our children safe from possible evil influences’ instead of, “I think we need to let our children make their own decisions even if they make sinful ones”. . .and SUDDENLY, ‘primacy of conscience’ is something to deride.
Again, I don’t agree with the priest’s interpretation of the ‘spells’, and I’ve read all the books, liked the first couple, not the later ones, positively disliked the last, but you know what?
We want our priests to lead, let them lead.
The people who are crying, "This makes the Church look so stupid and rigid’ are the same ones yelling when the Church doesn’t move fast enough to be ‘more relevant’.
Darned if we do. . .
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Guinness
Guest
We want priests to lead wisely. This isn’t that. Is he going to pull the “Lord of the Rings” and “Chronicles of Narnia” next?
Tis_Bearself
Patron
The books are well over 10 years old. Kids who want to read them can find them at a public library or used book store. I certainly didn’t rely on my school library to provide all my reading matter and thinking back on it there were MANY tween or YA books with edgy subject matter (drugs, witchcraft, sex, pregnancy etc) that I got from the public library and do not recall ever seeing at my Catholic school library.
My impression was that the school library’s main function was to provide younger kids with some reading matter to build reading skills, and provide older kids with the necessary materials to complete school assignments, mostly in the area of research and nonfiction subjects. The purpose was NOT to carry every popular book kids might wish to read.
My impression was that the school library’s main function was to provide younger kids with some reading matter to build reading skills, and provide older kids with the necessary materials to complete school assignments, mostly in the area of research and nonfiction subjects. The purpose was NOT to carry every popular book kids might wish to read.
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GiftofMercy
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No, Its not ‘sigh’ , its good. The people I have spoken to recently who have a very confused idea of living for Christ are confused by popular literature like this.
For example, Mass going Cathlics who also have a wand and little spells. new age paraphenalia. Viewing a priest as like a wizard and all sorts of confused issues.
Catholic Schools are wonderful to take a stand and say this is not what we do, this is not us. Start catechizing and redirecting student learning as far as popular media goes.
For example, Mass going Cathlics who also have a wand and little spells. new age paraphenalia. Viewing a priest as like a wizard and all sorts of confused issues.
Catholic Schools are wonderful to take a stand and say this is not what we do, this is not us. Start catechizing and redirecting student learning as far as popular media goes.
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Rockoh22
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There are many books that do not belong in schools. I am glad a Catholic school took a stance.
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stpurl
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No, not a ‘what if’ here.
You see, you are insisting that the priest lead and follow his conscience, but if you don’t like what he says and don’t think he’s right, you’re complaining.
See the problem?
If the priest only leads when you or ‘the majority of the people’ think his decisions are right, who is actually ‘leading?’
Again, I don’t think that he was considering the question in complete fullness, but according to what he did consider, he made the appropriate decision.
As C S Lewis wrote in Mere Christianity, the Church ‘no longer burns witches’, but it’s not because we don’t think that witches deserve burning, it’s that we think there are no actual witches of the medieval type. If the Church thought that witches existed, the kind of witches who were responsible not simply for evil deeds on earth, but who could steal or destroy a person’s soul, then they might still be ‘burning’ them, if that was the only way to keep them from such spiritual destruction.
So if the priest thinks that evil spells etc really do exist and that contact with supernatural evil is a danger to children, then he is indeed going to argue that even a ‘fiction’ book could be a danger to children by getting them to think of spells etc as being ‘positive’.
Again, by what HE understands and according to his conscience, he is doing the right thing.
Now, if his bishop gives him more information, then his conscience will be clear if that information leads him to the conclusion that these books are not a problem.
Until then, again. .
And I am shocked, yes shocked, that so many voices who keep telling us to listen to the priests, talk to the priest, etc. are so quick to turn when the priest tells them something they don’t like or don’t want to believe by wanting them to be STRICTER in following the Faith or to take a more spiritual approach. . .
You see, you are insisting that the priest lead and follow his conscience, but if you don’t like what he says and don’t think he’s right, you’re complaining.
See the problem?
If the priest only leads when you or ‘the majority of the people’ think his decisions are right, who is actually ‘leading?’
Again, I don’t think that he was considering the question in complete fullness, but according to what he did consider, he made the appropriate decision.
As C S Lewis wrote in Mere Christianity, the Church ‘no longer burns witches’, but it’s not because we don’t think that witches deserve burning, it’s that we think there are no actual witches of the medieval type. If the Church thought that witches existed, the kind of witches who were responsible not simply for evil deeds on earth, but who could steal or destroy a person’s soul, then they might still be ‘burning’ them, if that was the only way to keep them from such spiritual destruction.
So if the priest thinks that evil spells etc really do exist and that contact with supernatural evil is a danger to children, then he is indeed going to argue that even a ‘fiction’ book could be a danger to children by getting them to think of spells etc as being ‘positive’.
Again, by what HE understands and according to his conscience, he is doing the right thing.
Now, if his bishop gives him more information, then his conscience will be clear if that information leads him to the conclusion that these books are not a problem.
Until then, again. .
And I am shocked, yes shocked, that so many voices who keep telling us to listen to the priests, talk to the priest, etc. are so quick to turn when the priest tells them something they don’t like or don’t want to believe by wanting them to be STRICTER in following the Faith or to take a more spiritual approach. . .
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Guinness
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I don’t care if the books appear in the school library or not. My problem is with the priest at a Catholic school who thinks the “spells” in the HP books are real.
Having books younger kids might actually want to read is how you get them to build reading skills.
Is Harry Potter really the hill to die on?
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Rockoh22
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What hill. They took a pastoral decision. Good for them.
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angel12
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That’s good! 
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humbleseeker
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I think there’s a spell you can use to fix that tile…but that could have been in Fantasia.
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Dr_Meinheimer
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Likewise, I don’t understand the fuss made on CA when a priests none of us know makes a decision for his parish that doesn’t violate Church teaching. It is his prerogative. So “meh.”
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angel12
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That’s exactly my problem with this. Yes, he has the right to remove the books from the school. But he doesn’t have to add this stuff about “actual curses and spells.” Just say you don’t want them in the school and be done with it.
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Rockoh22
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The anger of some of you because a priest removed Harry Potter.
Go read the Bible.
Go read the Bible.
Tis_Bearself
Patron
There are priests posting all over the Internet who don’t like the witchcraft aspects of the Harry Potter books. It’s not some new thing, nor is it just one priest.
While I am not one to censor books, and read plenty of “junior witch” or “magical girl” type books as a kid that involved some kids making up their own spells after finding some witchcraft book in a dusty closet, I can see where it’s the type of thing one kid can read and be fine with it, and another kid can read and go down a wrong path. The witch books I mention were for the most part not from the Catholic school library, except for the really light and silly ones like Mrs. Piggle-Wiggle (whose witchcraft is solely directed towards getting kids to wash the dishes, brush their teeth and improve their manners). I wouldn’t be terribly surprised or bothered if Harry Potter was also absent from said library.
The books also do have the effect of normalizing witchcraft and encouraging kids to play at it and maybe continue the interest as adults. I did both. I am fine today, but maybe somebody else would not be.
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abucs
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When I was teaching in a Catholic school there was a year co-ordinator that wanted to teach Harry Potter in religion class instead of the bible because she thought the kids would relate to it more.
There are teachers like that and it was even the subject of an essay we had to write at university in Theology/Religious studies. The professors were in a Catholic University basically trying to get teachers to throw out Jesus from the religion subject.
In my later experience the senior teacher who wanted to teach Harry Potter was very dirty when the local bishop stepped in to stop it. She and I co-taught a class for 1 year and we clashed fiercely. She was not without allies including the principal. At the end of the year she went off and became a religious co-ordinator at another school.
I don’t know the particulars of this case but I know that particular fight is a feature of people inside Catholic education trying to de-Christianise the curriculum.
There are teachers like that and it was even the subject of an essay we had to write at university in Theology/Religious studies. The professors were in a Catholic University basically trying to get teachers to throw out Jesus from the religion subject.
In my later experience the senior teacher who wanted to teach Harry Potter was very dirty when the local bishop stepped in to stop it. She and I co-taught a class for 1 year and we clashed fiercely. She was not without allies including the principal. At the end of the year she went off and became a religious co-ordinator at another school.
I don’t know the particulars of this case but I know that particular fight is a feature of people inside Catholic education trying to de-Christianise the curriculum.
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Tis_Bearself
Patron
I actually wondered if, in this case, there is something going on behind the scenes that didn’t make it into the news story, such as a teacher using Harry Potter for some wrong purpose, or a group of parents who complained privately about the books.
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tgGodsway
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. The last thing we need is easy access for our kids to learn and ponder how to do do spells and incantations.
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abucs
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I don’t know but I suspect it.
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