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Sheen
Guest
Arlene Alice:
I believe that’s what many of us who enjoy Potter have been saying all along Arlene.
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Arlene_Alice
Guest
Dear Shelby Grace:
Thank you for sharing your story about dabbling in the occult. I am sorry to hear that the “Catholic” School you attended offered you a springboard into occult curiosities. The Bishops are truly asleep on this matter. However, the Vatican has just issued a statement on Catholic involvement in New Age. Maybe this will stir the pot, so to speak.
I am grateful to know that you have come out of the darkness and into the light of Christ, once more.
Perhaps those of us who have entered the “forbidden” door, tasted the fruits of the Tree of Knowledge of Evil, and have repented of our folly, are quite a bit more sensitive and discerning about “spirits.” I have offered my best arguments why Christians should not expose themselves to the occult - but it seemingly has landed on deaf ears. As you say, there is some kind of “possesiveness” phenomenon going on here. If you dare say anything against HP, you are pounded into the ground! It’s almost scary!
Your home school friend sees the picture now, after sincere prayer to the Lord for guidance. Perhaps, that’s where I should leave the discussion. Pray to the Lord for guidance - and as Mary would say, “Do what He tells you.”
Peace and blessings to you all.
Thank you for sharing your story about dabbling in the occult. I am sorry to hear that the “Catholic” School you attended offered you a springboard into occult curiosities. The Bishops are truly asleep on this matter. However, the Vatican has just issued a statement on Catholic involvement in New Age. Maybe this will stir the pot, so to speak.
I am grateful to know that you have come out of the darkness and into the light of Christ, once more.
Perhaps those of us who have entered the “forbidden” door, tasted the fruits of the Tree of Knowledge of Evil, and have repented of our folly, are quite a bit more sensitive and discerning about “spirits.” I have offered my best arguments why Christians should not expose themselves to the occult - but it seemingly has landed on deaf ears. As you say, there is some kind of “possesiveness” phenomenon going on here. If you dare say anything against HP, you are pounded into the ground! It’s almost scary!
Your home school friend sees the picture now, after sincere prayer to the Lord for guidance. Perhaps, that’s where I should leave the discussion. Pray to the Lord for guidance - and as Mary would say, “Do what He tells you.”
Peace and blessings to you all.
T
tee_eff_em
Guest
Ah, but well-formed, serious and faithful Catholic parents have already made many moments into opportunities to share the REAL FAITH – They don’t hold back until their children crack a pop novel…
In any case, I’ll take her at her word
P
perpetua
Guest
I just don’t understand why people get so worked up about this series. My husband and I have read all of the books, and we will read the next one when it comes out too. We are real “Catholics” who attend mass, don’t use artificial birth control, we even make it out as a family to pray the rosary in front of an abortion clinic sometimes. We have also enjoyed the Harry Potter series. Are we now automatically immature in our faith?
We don’t belive that the books are the greatest ever written, but they are entertaining, and a darn site less offiensive than most of the other garbage out there. No, they are not great literature, and if we had too, yes, we could live without them. We don’t get cable or watch tv (only movies on dvd or video sometimes), so books are one of our main forms of family entertainment of a winter’s evening (we go through a lot of them). One of us reads aloud (usually me), then we talk about the books. I highly recommend the practice as a way to grow as a family.
If you don’t like the books, or feel that they are not right for your family, then please don’t read them. If you feel that your family is susceptible to confusing the fictional story with realitiy, or is drawn unnaturally to occult practices, then please don’t read them.
I only wish people who get so worked up about a series of fictional books would get as worked up about abortion and birth control. Think of the impact that we could have.
We don’t belive that the books are the greatest ever written, but they are entertaining, and a darn site less offiensive than most of the other garbage out there. No, they are not great literature, and if we had too, yes, we could live without them. We don’t get cable or watch tv (only movies on dvd or video sometimes), so books are one of our main forms of family entertainment of a winter’s evening (we go through a lot of them). One of us reads aloud (usually me), then we talk about the books. I highly recommend the practice as a way to grow as a family.
If you don’t like the books, or feel that they are not right for your family, then please don’t read them. If you feel that your family is susceptible to confusing the fictional story with realitiy, or is drawn unnaturally to occult practices, then please don’t read them.
I only wish people who get so worked up about a series of fictional books would get as worked up about abortion and birth control. Think of the impact that we could have.
M
ms_cilantro
Guest
In my humble opinion Satan using HP books as door is a bit of a stretch. The books are fantasy about people who are “magic folk”. You can’t take a course and become a witch or a wizzard in this world. If becoming a wizzard or a witch was a choice there wouldn’t be “squibs” in the book. (Characters who had magic parents but can’t do magic).
Now a television show like Buffy the Vampire Slayer was more problematic. There people chose to become witches and study ways to use witchcraft. I would bet that was a much bigger influence on people seeking out witchcraft.
Everyone needs to take a deep breath and remember we know how it all ends, we win. (By the grace of God of course)
Think I’ll I go read my catechism and then start the HP books again.
Now a television show like Buffy the Vampire Slayer was more problematic. There people chose to become witches and study ways to use witchcraft. I would bet that was a much bigger influence on people seeking out witchcraft.
Everyone needs to take a deep breath and remember we know how it all ends, we win. (By the grace of God of course)
Think I’ll I go read my catechism and then start the HP books again.
T
TeAmo
Guest
The Vatican did not rule that Harry Potter is acceptable reading for Catholics- youths or otherwise. I assume you’re referrring to the media hype over the “Vatican approving Harry Potter.” The priest in question gave his personal opinion, and did not intend it to be anything else. Indeed, in one article I read, he was quoted as expressing his surprise that it was taken as anything else.
There are multiple opinions inside the Vatican over the Harry Potter issue- just like in the forums!
Fr. Gabriel Amorth, the chief exorcist of Rome, for instance, has expressed his disapproval. The priest mentioned above-sorry, can’t remember his name- gave his opinion that they were harmless. That’s all they are- opinions. None of them are definitive rulings by the Vatican over the issue.
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Arlene_Alice
Guest
Ms Cilantro:
You prove my point - if YOU can take HP seriously about “squibs” who can’t do magic even though they are the offspring of occult parents, than what more can I say?
Do a Net Search on Witchcraft or WICCA - it might be a whole new revelation for you.
See: www.exwitch.org a site established by an ex-witch, who has repented and been converted to Christianity. She lists different types of religions related to Witchcraft: Wicca, Witta, Pagan, Neo-pagan, Ceremonial Magick, Kemetic, Tameran, Discordian, Erisian, Chaos Magician, Gardnerian, Alexandrian, Reclaiming, Dianic, Norse, Asatru, Odinism, Shamnism, Hindu, Huna, Mama Chi, “Native” or Iindiginous, Druid, Earth Religion, The Craft, Old Relgion, Voodoo, Rodun, Santeria, Yoruba, Golden Dawn, Circle. I really don’t know which of these categories Harry Potter fits into ???
It’s a “craft” which is learned. One is not “born” a witch - just like one is not born a homosexual. It is a learned behavior.
Yes, Christ WILL win in the end…but he doesn’t want us to be ignorant about the evils around us. He never sang the song, “Don’t worry, be happy!” He warned us to be on guard!
You prove my point - if YOU can take HP seriously about “squibs” who can’t do magic even though they are the offspring of occult parents, than what more can I say?
Do a Net Search on Witchcraft or WICCA - it might be a whole new revelation for you.
See: www.exwitch.org a site established by an ex-witch, who has repented and been converted to Christianity. She lists different types of religions related to Witchcraft: Wicca, Witta, Pagan, Neo-pagan, Ceremonial Magick, Kemetic, Tameran, Discordian, Erisian, Chaos Magician, Gardnerian, Alexandrian, Reclaiming, Dianic, Norse, Asatru, Odinism, Shamnism, Hindu, Huna, Mama Chi, “Native” or Iindiginous, Druid, Earth Religion, The Craft, Old Relgion, Voodoo, Rodun, Santeria, Yoruba, Golden Dawn, Circle. I really don’t know which of these categories Harry Potter fits into ???
It’s a “craft” which is learned. One is not “born” a witch - just like one is not born a homosexual. It is a learned behavior.
Yes, Christ WILL win in the end…but he doesn’t want us to be ignorant about the evils around us. He never sang the song, “Don’t worry, be happy!” He warned us to be on guard!
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Arlene_Alice
Guest
Perpetua:
It’s hard to presume what people on this thread are “worked up” about.
We are discussing a form of apologetics - certainly folks can get passionate about their points of view.
I am also passionate about pro-life and media decency issues and have spent the last 25 years serving the Church and my community as an activist.
I am sure my fellow Catholics here are equally involved in worthy Christian projects. Just because we disagree on a topic doesn’t automatically conclude that we are “obssessed” about Harry Potter.
Or are we?
It’s hard to presume what people on this thread are “worked up” about.
We are discussing a form of apologetics - certainly folks can get passionate about their points of view.
I am also passionate about pro-life and media decency issues and have spent the last 25 years serving the Church and my community as an activist.
I am sure my fellow Catholics here are equally involved in worthy Christian projects. Just because we disagree on a topic doesn’t automatically conclude that we are “obssessed” about Harry Potter.
Or are we?
M
Meggie
Guest
Still, none of you who are anti-Potter will ever reach the group of people this is most troubling to. Infact I’d go so far to say Potter isn’t at danger to most people on this board or thier children.
But its still a danger to a lost lonly child who is poorly educated, or not educated at all in matters of faith. Potter can lead to even more self-hatred and low self asteem becasue unlike people claim its not empowering. Its like drugs, as soon as you stop reading it the high goes away and I always wondered when it would be my turn to be swept away from my Dursly-like situation. Of course it never happened and I spent many years in a bad situation believing in the back of my head that one day someone would swoop in and save me.
But its still a danger to a lost lonly child who is poorly educated, or not educated at all in matters of faith. Potter can lead to even more self-hatred and low self asteem becasue unlike people claim its not empowering. Its like drugs, as soon as you stop reading it the high goes away and I always wondered when it would be my turn to be swept away from my Dursly-like situation. Of course it never happened and I spent many years in a bad situation believing in the back of my head that one day someone would swoop in and save me.
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Marauder
Guest
I am a big Harry Potter fan. Even my user name is Harry Potter based. I am also Catholic and very orthodox in my beliefs.
A person with a well informed conscience can read Harry Potter. I don’t see it as much difference from the fantasy, sci-fi, etc. books I read as a kid. I haven’t heard anyone complain about Issac Asimov, C.S. Lewis and other fantasy writers about their use of magic etc. in their fantasy book.
As long as parents inform their kids that Harry Potter is just fantasy, I see no problem allowing them to read the books.
Anyone that reads the books will see elements of the Lord of the Rings, Homer, C.S. Lewis and other things that Rowling “borrowed” to make the books.
When my kid is a little older I will be reading to her from the Chronicles of Narnia, and allow her to read Harry Potter.
A person with a well informed conscience can read Harry Potter. I don’t see it as much difference from the fantasy, sci-fi, etc. books I read as a kid. I haven’t heard anyone complain about Issac Asimov, C.S. Lewis and other fantasy writers about their use of magic etc. in their fantasy book.
As long as parents inform their kids that Harry Potter is just fantasy, I see no problem allowing them to read the books.
Anyone that reads the books will see elements of the Lord of the Rings, Homer, C.S. Lewis and other things that Rowling “borrowed” to make the books.
When my kid is a little older I will be reading to her from the Chronicles of Narnia, and allow her to read Harry Potter.
J
Joane
Guest
I have read all the Harry Potter books, and seen the movies. The problem I see with the Harry Potter character is that he is neither distinctly good, nor distinctly bad. One can argue that in real life, no one really is black and white. I suppose that we are living in a world where we encourage children to be more mature in certain areas of their lives, than they used to be. I find ‘children’s’ books, such as The Giver, by Lois Lowry, to have much more complicated, mature plots and alot less good side vs. bad side. I find this trend not just in Harry Potter, but in most ALL new books.
I agree that the books put this world of magic/wizardry in a good light and that the evil characters seem to hold all the power in the books. I also have not liked the way Harry Potter’s character is developing. Should rebelliousness, and lack of respect for elders be put in a favorable light?
Rowling wrote these books for English children, and I am told that children there are raised differently than here in America. Perhaps some English parents would like to give their opinion?
Whatever the case, I do not worry about lettting Catholics and Protestants, who care about what their children are reading, discuss Harry Potter, what I am concerned about is the majority of families in today’s society who do NOT discuss Harry Potter with their children. And there are many out there, sadly, who are not very involved in their children’s lives.
Looking for God in Harry Potter is an interesting read…very pro Harry Potter from a Christian prospective, and Michael O’Brien’s commentary on Harry Potter, the other side, is interesting as well.
God bless your day.
I agree that the books put this world of magic/wizardry in a good light and that the evil characters seem to hold all the power in the books. I also have not liked the way Harry Potter’s character is developing. Should rebelliousness, and lack of respect for elders be put in a favorable light?
Rowling wrote these books for English children, and I am told that children there are raised differently than here in America. Perhaps some English parents would like to give their opinion?
Whatever the case, I do not worry about lettting Catholics and Protestants, who care about what their children are reading, discuss Harry Potter, what I am concerned about is the majority of families in today’s society who do NOT discuss Harry Potter with their children. And there are many out there, sadly, who are not very involved in their children’s lives.
Looking for God in Harry Potter is an interesting read…very pro Harry Potter from a Christian prospective, and Michael O’Brien’s commentary on Harry Potter, the other side, is interesting as well.
God bless your day.
J
Joane
Guest
P.S. You can shoot me if if this has been discussed somewhere before…sometimes it’s difficult to keep up with you people… , but I have recently heard about The Shadowmancer Series, written by Graham Taylor , which is said to be a ‘Christian alternative to Harry Potter.’ Interestingly enough, the Rev. Graham Taylor is/was an Anglican pastor residing in England–Rowling has competition 
I would love to hear opinions of this series, as I have not yet obtained a copy of them. www.shadowmancer.com.
, but I have recently heard about The Shadowmancer Series, written by Graham Taylor , which is said to be a ‘Christian alternative to Harry Potter.’ Interestingly enough, the Rev. Graham Taylor is/was an Anglican pastor residing in England–Rowling has competition I would love to hear opinions of this series, as I have not yet obtained a copy of them. www.shadowmancer.com.
C
Count_Chocula
Guest
Arlene Alice:
Even in the richest country in the world Illiteracy runs rampant. I’ve gone to college level classes with upwards of 15 people with barely High School reading level.
I read Battlefield Earth back when I was 16 or so (a book written by L. Ron Hubbard, the inventor of Dianetics and Scientology) and I’ve turned out fine, why? My parents did an excellent job raising me. So I guess Harry Potter and similar stuff will only harm kids who have crappy parents, at that point, can’t blame the books, gotta blame mom and dad. And IMO it’s mostly easy to make sure your kids turn out ok, just teach them decent values and all about consequences of actions in life and they’re set.
Even Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory points out that if a kid turns out poorly that it’s the parent’s fault.
I’m not hysterical just suggesting through what’s perhaps heavy sarcasm that Harry Potter books are no real threat to anything other than… parent’s wallets and illiteracy. Personally, anything that gets kids to read (wether it be text heavy video games, comic books, car magazines etc…) is a huge blessing.
Even in the richest country in the world Illiteracy runs rampant. I’ve gone to college level classes with upwards of 15 people with barely High School reading level.
I read Battlefield Earth back when I was 16 or so (a book written by L. Ron Hubbard, the inventor of Dianetics and Scientology) and I’ve turned out fine, why? My parents did an excellent job raising me. So I guess Harry Potter and similar stuff will only harm kids who have crappy parents, at that point, can’t blame the books, gotta blame mom and dad. And IMO it’s mostly easy to make sure your kids turn out ok, just teach them decent values and all about consequences of actions in life and they’re set.
Even Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory points out that if a kid turns out poorly that it’s the parent’s fault.
A
Arlene_Alice
Guest
Let’s re-direct this thread with talk about Harry Potter in the classroom. Quoting from the Karen Jo Gounaud, who is a librarian and an expert on “Family Friendly Libraries” www.fflibraries.org "Teachers, as authority figures in the classroom, must not promote a particular religion…While public schools throughout the nation have been systematically removing any association with Christian faith from the classroom and other school activities, they seem to be welcoming classroom materials and extracurricular activities associated with pagan an occult religions.
[Note: Catholic school teachers in my Diocese were promoting Harry Potter themes for Halloween Parties in their classrooms ! I wonder if they ever promote The Saints theme for Halloween? What’s next - Tarot cards, crystal balls, Horoscopes, seances, etc.?]
Gounad continues: " Although these Potter books are not religious instruction manuals, they celebrate Witchcraft thru entertainment…a powerful advertisement for occult religions.Time magazine, 9-20-99 pointed out: “Who wouldn’t choose a wizard’s life?” I doubt seriously a public school would allow a teacher to do the Chrstian equivalent such as reading a book from Focus on the Family’s ‘Adventures in Odyssey’ series pointing to the advantages of a Christian life." [Heavens No, the ACLU police would get after you and take you to court!]
“So it is most unfair [typical of government schools] to engage our youth in activities promoting pagan gods especially when that activity is reading a bestselling book about a wizard boy so close to the age of the students.”
“The Wiccan church has been granted IRS status and the US Government has appointed military chaplains in their belief.” The word witch is a derivative of the Old English noun “wicca.” Get it?
My question to you…if our kids can read Harry Potter {WICCA} in public schools, why can’t they read Christian books?
The ball is in your court…
[Note: Catholic school teachers in my Diocese were promoting Harry Potter themes for Halloween Parties in their classrooms ! I wonder if they ever promote The Saints theme for Halloween? What’s next - Tarot cards, crystal balls, Horoscopes, seances, etc.?]
Gounad continues: " Although these Potter books are not religious instruction manuals, they celebrate Witchcraft thru entertainment…a powerful advertisement for occult religions.Time magazine, 9-20-99 pointed out: “Who wouldn’t choose a wizard’s life?” I doubt seriously a public school would allow a teacher to do the Chrstian equivalent such as reading a book from Focus on the Family’s ‘Adventures in Odyssey’ series pointing to the advantages of a Christian life." [Heavens No, the ACLU police would get after you and take you to court!]
“So it is most unfair [typical of government schools] to engage our youth in activities promoting pagan gods especially when that activity is reading a bestselling book about a wizard boy so close to the age of the students.”
“The Wiccan church has been granted IRS status and the US Government has appointed military chaplains in their belief.” The word witch is a derivative of the Old English noun “wicca.” Get it?
My question to you…if our kids can read Harry Potter {WICCA} in public schools, why can’t they read Christian books?
The ball is in your court…
A
Arlene_Alice
Guest
Count Chocola: You state…
“Personally, anything that gets kids to read (wether it be text heavy video games, comic books, car magazines etc…) is a huge blessing.”
“Anything???” Really???
In other words, you think parents shouldn’t have to monitor or be vigilant about what their kids read? The most important factor in your mind is that they READ.
WOW! You sure leave the door wide open!
My two boys were into Playboy in their teens, until Mom found out. Of course, they were just reading the “articles.” Hmmmm?
“Personally, anything that gets kids to read (wether it be text heavy video games, comic books, car magazines etc…) is a huge blessing.”
“Anything???” Really???
In other words, you think parents shouldn’t have to monitor or be vigilant about what their kids read? The most important factor in your mind is that they READ.
WOW! You sure leave the door wide open!
My two boys were into Playboy in their teens, until Mom found out. Of course, they were just reading the “articles.” Hmmmm?
M
Monarchy
Guest
This ‘magic’ is fictional as well. All magic is.
It’s a sports gathering. About as evil as the world cup.
**
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There is no such thing as REAL MAGIC. It is all fiction.
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Arlene_Alice
Guest
To Monarch [and Gandalf?] You must be living in “la-la” land. Satan used magic in the Garden of Eden - mind control. Get out your Bible Concordance and do a search on Magic. Way back to Genesis 41:8 !
Do a search on the Web: WICCA/WITCHCRAFT Magic is real and practiced widely today.
worldnet.att.net/cgi-bin/websearch?cmd=qry&qry=wicca%2Fwitchcraft&image.x=5&image.y=7
Do a search on the Web: WICCA/WITCHCRAFT Magic is real and practiced widely today.
worldnet.att.net/cgi-bin/websearch?cmd=qry&qry=wicca%2Fwitchcraft&image.x=5&image.y=7
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Monarchy
Guest
Arlene Alice:
NO MAGIC IS REAL. It may be to the practioners but if you cast a spell the same thing will always happen. Absolutely Nothing.
If Satan used ‘Mind Control’ in the garden of Eden then Adam and Eve where not respnsible for eating the apple and God was wrong to kick them out for something they did not conciously do.
NO MAGIC IS REAL. It may be to the practioners but if you cast a spell the same thing will always happen. Absolutely Nothing.
M
Monarchy
Guest
Arlene Alice:
This reminds me of all the hub bub about roleplaying games. Kids were going to kill themselves when their ‘charachter’ died. If a person is suseptable to that kind of thing they will be no matter what you put in front of them.
In the HP series, The kids studying magic were born wizards. The ‘squibs’ talked about are characters that were born to characters able to do magic, but can not do it themselves. A non magical character (muggle) cannot study magic. This is exactly the opposite of what you are claiming about ‘real’ magic practiononers.
This reminds me of all the hub bub about roleplaying games. Kids were going to kill themselves when their ‘charachter’ died. If a person is suseptable to that kind of thing they will be no matter what you put in front of them.
A
Arlene_Alice
Guest
Monarchy:
There’s no use talking sense to someone who won’t do some research. I’ve provided loads of links on this thread, plus invited folks to get out their Catechisms on magic, their Bible Concordance on magic, and their Bibles on magic.
Satan used “mind control” on our first parents who were granted free will to accept or reject satan’s wiley, snares. YE SHALL BE AS GODS! Hah! That’s what the New Age magic proposes.
You have free will to accept or reject the Church’s teachings on magic/witchcraft/sorcery/divination/spells/satan worship, etc. - all the occult practices that the Church declares are for REAL.
If you want to further argue the point, take it up with Rome…or continue to linger in “la-la” land!
There’s no use talking sense to someone who won’t do some research. I’ve provided loads of links on this thread, plus invited folks to get out their Catechisms on magic, their Bible Concordance on magic, and their Bibles on magic.
Satan used “mind control” on our first parents who were granted free will to accept or reject satan’s wiley, snares. YE SHALL BE AS GODS! Hah! That’s what the New Age magic proposes.
You have free will to accept or reject the Church’s teachings on magic/witchcraft/sorcery/divination/spells/satan worship, etc. - all the occult practices that the Church declares are for REAL.
If you want to further argue the point, take it up with Rome…or continue to linger in “la-la” land!
- Status