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John_of_Woking
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Is that irritating little bespectacled teenager worth bothering about?
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puzzleannie
Guest
one of the kids brought a HP book to CCD and we initiated a great discussion of the ideas and themes in the book, and how they relate or compare to Catholic teaching. Got them excited about looking things up in the Catechism and bible, talking about ideas and characters. good literary as well as theological discussion. very proud of my 7th graders.
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John_of_Woking
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It is not very christian however. I wouldn’t want my children reading it
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Friar_David_O.Carm
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This topic has been beat to death already here.
Do a search on the forum for Harry Potter and you will see.
I did not vote because nothing in poll fits.
I see nothing wrong with the Harry Potter books and anyone that thinks they promote the occult shows that they do not really know what the occult is.
Bear in mind that I am a former “neo-pagan”/wicca.
Do a search on the forum for Harry Potter and you will see.
I did not vote because nothing in poll fits.
I see nothing wrong with the Harry Potter books and anyone that thinks they promote the occult shows that they do not really know what the occult is.
Bear in mind that I am a former “neo-pagan”/wicca.
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John_of_Woking
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I respectfully disgagree and I will side with Michael O’Brien (Ignatius Press.)
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SPOKENWORD
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I know that many will say these books are great. But I say[of course my oppinion] The enemy is a deciever. He takes evil and makes it look good[Just like in the garden] Buy letting children read these books you open the door for the enemy to come in. These books are not of God. Pray and seek the Lord,ask Him to show you Truth. Which Spirit is behind these books. Is it Gods or is it satans? Its not what you think, its what God thinks thats what matters. 
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John_of_Woking
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I think you are objectively correct in your assessment. Its a shame for those who get such enjoyment from the books.I know that many will say these books are great. But I say[of course my oppinion] The enemy is a deciever. He takes evil and makes it look good[Just like in the garden] Buy letting children read these books you open the door for the enemy to come in. These books are not of God. Pray and seek the Lord,ask Him to show you Truth. Which Spirit is behind these books. Is it Gods or is it satans? Its not what you think, its what God thinks thats what matters.
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John_of_Woking
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John of Woking:
Forgive me that sounds rather uncharitable on second viewing. Nothing against spectacles…
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Friar_David_O.Carm
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You can believe all you wish but in this case you are wrong.
Explore all the other threads at this forum on this topic.
Nothing in the Harry Potter books resembles any occult practice today.
Practitioners of Wicca do not run around in robes waving “magic wands” and reciting latin.
If you think these books are evil then you must think that the Lord of the Rings is evil also as it has “occult” practices and magic in it too.
Explore all the other threads at this forum on this topic.
Nothing in the Harry Potter books resembles any occult practice today.
Practitioners of Wicca do not run around in robes waving “magic wands” and reciting latin.
If you think these books are evil then you must think that the Lord of the Rings is evil also as it has “occult” practices and magic in it too.
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John_of_Woking
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I can’t comment on L.O.T.R I have not read the books that. I do know there is explicit Eucharistic symbolism in the books however .
The Three Films I have watched. They seemed overall to be ok. Maybe 7/10.
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SPOKENWORD
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Like I said, It doesnt matter what I think,Its what God thinks. Also Ive never seen Lord of the rings so I can not comment.
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Friar_David_O.Carm
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If this is truely how you think then why are you responding?
Or are you telling us you know the mind of God?
The Church, which is God’s institution on earth, has not made any sort of ruling on Harry Potter.
Actually I seem to remember some rumblings from the Vatican that were on the positive side for Harry Potter.
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SPOKENWORD
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Well we are to have the mind of Christ and take on His nature.If I didnt respond , you would not be getting this answer.
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Lissla_Lissar
Guest
I’ve read the first four books, and I didn’t like them. I don’t really object to the magic, but I do object to Harry’s general behaviour. As I recall (it’s been a few years) he was consistently rewarded for not doing very much. When he misbehaved, there didn’t seem to be any negative consequence to his actions. He struck me as cowardly and vapid. Not a role model I’d want for my children, when I have them.
Now I’m going to have to reread the books to back up my assertions. Bleh.
I’m sure this has been done to death, but in LOTR there’s a pointed correlation between choice and character. Salvation comes through moral choices- all of Middle Earth is saved from Sauron because of Frodo’s mercy and courage- through the strength of the humble. Smeagol becomes Gollum through murderous greed, but is almost saved through kindness. Denethor’s jealousy leads to madness and death.The list goes on and on. For a book to be good (to me) it has to acknowledge that it is our choices which shape who we are and what the world will become. Harry Potter lacks that underlying substance. Enough pontificating.
I’m not familiar with the Michael O’Brien quote regarding Harry Potter; could someone point me in the right direction?
Now I’m going to have to reread the books to back up my assertions. Bleh.
I’m sure this has been done to death, but in LOTR there’s a pointed correlation between choice and character. Salvation comes through moral choices- all of Middle Earth is saved from Sauron because of Frodo’s mercy and courage- through the strength of the humble. Smeagol becomes Gollum through murderous greed, but is almost saved through kindness. Denethor’s jealousy leads to madness and death.The list goes on and on. For a book to be good (to me) it has to acknowledge that it is our choices which shape who we are and what the world will become. Harry Potter lacks that underlying substance. Enough pontificating.
I’m not familiar with the Michael O’Brien quote regarding Harry Potter; could someone point me in the right direction?
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Friar_David_O.Carm
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Lissla Lissar:
These individuals are pointing out that the Harry Potter works are evil because they encourage the occult and magic. They do not comment on the stories, on how the characters act.
I would agree with you on these points but these do not make the works evil.
Based solely on the criteria raised, that of the occult and magic, the Lord of the Rings could be considered just as guilty.
Good points but not on topic here.
These individuals are pointing out that the Harry Potter works are evil because they encourage the occult and magic. They do not comment on the stories, on how the characters act.
I would agree with you on these points but these do not make the works evil.
Based solely on the criteria raised, that of the occult and magic, the Lord of the Rings could be considered just as guilty.
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IrenkaJMJ
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There is a difference between the magic in HP books and the books of Tolkien and Lewis. Here is a link to an article that explains the differences:members.tripod.com/Snyder_AMDG/SDG.html This is an excerpt from the above link:
- In general, Tolkien, Lewis, and Rowling – especially Rowling – depict magic in completely fantastical terms that bear no resemblance to actual occult practices in the real world, and that no one could possibly delude themselves into thinking they could successfully emulate. That is, whereas some more dangerous cultural depictions of magic include such genuinely dangerous phenomena as seances and astral projection, in Tolkien, Lewis, and Rowling you get wizards who can generate fire at a word, or who have books with spells of invisibility, or who ride flying broomsticks – manifestations that are clearly meant to be make-believe and have virtually no potential to inspire direct imitative behavior.
- Tolkien and Lewis relegate the pursuit of magic as a safe and lawful occupation to wholly imaginary realms, with place-names like Middle-earth and Narnia, that cannot be located either in time or in space with reference to our own world. By contrast, Harry Potter lives in a fictionalized version of our own world that is recognizable in time and space, in a country called England, in a timeframe of our own age.
- Tolkien and Lewis relegate the safe and lawful pursuit of magic to characters who are numbered among the supporting cast, not the protagonists with whom the reader is primarily to identify. By contrast, Harry Potter, a student of wizardry, is the title character and hero of his novels.
- Tolkien and Lewis relegate the pursuit of magic as a safe and lawful occupation to characters who are not in fact human (despite the human appearance of some, like Tolkien’s Gandalf and Lewis’ Coriakin; whom in fact we are told are, respectively, a semi-incarnate angel and an earthbound star). In Harry Potter’s world, by contrast, while some human beings (called “Muggles”) lack the capacity for magic, others, including Harry’s true parents (and of course Harry himself), do not.
- Tolkien and Lewis relegate the safe and lawful pursuit of magic to characters who, in appearance, stature, behavior, and role, embody a certain wizard archetype – white-haired old men with beards and robes and staffs, mysterious, remote, unapproachable, who serve to guide and mentor the heroes. Harry Potter, by contrast, is a peer to many of his avid young readers, a boy with the same problems and interests that they have.
- Tolkien and Lewis devote no narrative space to the process by which their wizard archetypes acquired their magical prowess. In the Harry Potter books, by contrast, Harry’s acquisition of mastery over magical forces at the Hogwarts School of Wizardry and Witchcraft is a central organizing principle in the story-arc of the series as a whole.
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SPOKENWORD
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Good for the writer.$$$} Evil for the reader.
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Friar_David_O.Carm
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So Tolkien and Lewis (which by the way are authors) and Harry Potter (which is a charater in Rowling’s works) are the same.
In Tolkien and Rowling, normal humans (called muggles in Rowling’s works) can not use magic. I do not know about Lewis.
Also the fact that those who can use magic in Rowling look human is no different than in Tolkien as the wizards, one of them is a protagonist (Saruman), is anything but a part of the supporting cast.
And please show us exactly where it says that Gandalf, Saruman, and Radagast while appearing human are in fact semi-incarnate angels. You say “whom in fact we are told are, respectively, a semi-incarnate angel”. I do not recall reading this in the books or even seeing it in the movie.
And again, the argument raised in this thread is that the Harry Potter books promote the occult and magic through their depiction of it. If this is the case then the works of Tolkein and Lewis are also guilty of this and should be considered as evil has Harry Potter.
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BlessedBe13
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I didn’t answer the poll because there really didn’t seem to be an answer that fits my opinions. While I don’t think it’s evil or dodgy, I don’t think it’s educational either (it’s fiction) and I don’t think Catholics (or anyone) necessarily *should *read it, although they *can. *It is a fantasy novel, just like Lord of the Rings, etc. It does not teach nor promote the occult, and anyone (adult or child) that thinks that the magic in there is real, that you can learn “spells” from it, etc., needs to grow up and get a good dose of reality.
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IrenkaJMJ
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What I posted is like I stated, an excerpt from the link I gave. And I have read many books about and by Tolkien that explain the origins of Gandalf and the like. Read the link. The author makes alot of sense to me.
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