Harry Potter?.......( Is it bad?)

[ProdglArchitect]

ProdglArchitect:

I’m sorry, but as I’ve already stated ad nauseum, the inclusion of magic as a system has no inherent moral quality.

The use of magic is, generally speaking, un-Christian. I don’t know if you’re Catholic, but if you care what the Catechism has to say about it, look at paragraph 2117.

So unless you just don’t care about a Christian perspective, I find it puzzling that you claim that the use of magic as a system has “no inherent moral quality”.

So do Narnia and Arthurian Legend.

As far as I recall, the protagonists in Narnia (part 1) do not use magic – but I’m going by memory now. (But to be fair, Gandalf from LOTR uses it extensively of course.) As for Arthurian legend, yes there is magic, but it is never used by the knights that are always at the heart of the story. (Which makes most Arthurian legend very Christian, by the way.)

You must be new here I am definitly a faithful Catholic, and I am well aware of the Church’s position on magic, including that very Catechism passage. I have referenced it before myself in regards to actual occult discussions.

I also understand that fiction is capable of using magic systems while retaining a positive moral quality.

I think another important thing to understand is that, in the Harry Potter universe, Magic is not explicitly a supernatural quality. it is a natural capacity, governed by natural laws, and beholden to natural limitations. It is not an attempt to gain control over supernatural forces or harness demonic powers, which are the qualifiers for magic as referenced by the Catechism.

As for Narinia, the children do not, to my recollection (also pulling form memory), use magic at all in the story. However, many of their compatriots do. In Arthurian Legend, Arthur makes extensive use of magical artifacts (Excalibur and its sheath, just to name two), and frequently consults an active, practicing, occult wizard who is much more in keeping with what the Church condemns.

If that can be considered Christian literature, then your problems with Harry Potter are even more laughable.

(This isn’t to knock Arthurian legend, I love it and it is definitely Christian. However, it is also very likely that these legends draw from earlier Druid folk stories which have a heavy focus on occult magics.)

 

[mVitus]

I don’t know if you’re Catholic, but if you care what the Catechism has to say about it, look at paragraph 2117.

A key thing is that magic is defined as a supernatural power. Above one’s inherent nature as it were. In Harry Potter, magic is an inherent part of the wizard’s nature. It’s a natural, not supernatural, power for them and does not involve recourse to demons. So in Harry Potter, they actually act morally.

 

[Wesrock]

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

You realize that’s what the villain is saying, not what Harry or any of the good guys in the story believe, right?

 

[MHLucille]

So harry potter is pretty much the satan series

 

[Roguish]

You must be new here

Nah, not new. And I have seen your moniker before many times. We may even have had exchanges before. I just can’t keep track, to be honest. Too many people on this forum; without faces it’s just hard to “remember” what kind of person is behind a certain username.

 

[Wesrock]

“If you only knew the power of the Dark Side!” - George Lucas

“Give into your anger!” - George Lucas

“You will not certainly die, when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.” - God (via the Bible, by Seagull’s logic)

 

[Lee1]

So we can’t see anything wrong with HP.

Let that one through then. Then we’ll let another thing through etc etc.

Before you know it men will become mad and they will attack you and say “you are mad.”

As I said, I don’t think Our Lady would approve of HP.

 

[ProdglArchitect]

I was just playing around. Your icon makes you pretty easy to keep track of. I understand that mine is… less effective for that.

 

[Uliana988]

I LOVE the Wizard in Rhyme series. I’ve read the first book several times (it’s my favorite). I always get kind of choked up when the saint comes and banishes the demon.

As to the Harry Potter books, in that world you have to be genetically able to use magic in order to do so, otherwise, you’re a muggle (an ordinary human) or a squib (someone with magic parents without the magic gene). You also need a wand with such things as dragon heartstring, phoenix feathers, and unicorn tail hairs in its core, etc for magic to work (There are no such thing as dragons, unicorns or phoenixes). The spells are fake latin and only one word or phrase such as incendio (makes fire) or aloha mora (or some such; it opens locks). Scorgify cleans things; I could go on, but you get the picture. Sheesh, people give it a rest.

 

[ProdglArchitect]

Technically, you don’t need to have a wand. There is both wandless and wordless magic, but they can basically only be used by prodigies.

 

[mVitus]

So harry potter is pretty much the satan series

All I know is what I looked up a few seconds ago which suggested what you mentioned was a Bible study. So no. Harry Potter is not a Bible study.

So we can’t see anything wrong with HP.

Let that one through then. Then we’ll let another thing through etc etc.

Before you know it men will become mad and they will attack you and say “you are mad.”

As I said, I don’t think Our Lady would approve of HP.

I don’t see anything inherently wrong with HP, no. That’s kind of the point of what I’m saying.

I LOVE the Wizard in Rhyme series. I’ve read the first book several times (it’s my favorite). I always get kind of choked up when the saint comes and banishes the demon.

Me, my personal favorite part was actual the beginning of (I want to say The Secular Wizard) where the king brings two knights with him and they’re thinking he’s going to expose them as Christians when he orders an attack against the priest, but instead he goes to Confession and they fight to the death long enough for him to be absolved. I may not have been practicing my faith really back when I read it, but it was still good to see the turning back from a life of sin.

 

[Lee1]

I’ve debated this for ten hours, I’d like a rest now.

I will never agree, in my life I’ve seen a lot of negative changes and a lot of them have been due to a gradual lowering of the barriers.

Secondly I don’t beleive it is in accordance with my faith.

But thanks for replying. God bless.

 

[Catholicwife32]

“No you don’t” what? I didn’t ask you any questions. I asked a couple rhetorical questions that were not personally directed at you. Even if they had been, “No I don’t” doesn’t even make logical sense to the questions to begin with. They were simply questions for self-reflection in order to help people discern whether they were indulging in the occult or not.

Worrying about Harry Potter isn’t an adequate discernment question because books of fiction are not the occult. The concern shows a confused sense over what the occult is.

Were you responding to someone else?

 

[Lee1]

As far as I remember you suggested that my fear of the occult was based on me being a Christian occultist. I found that an unkind thing to suggest.

Then you mentioned something about me perhaps worshiping idols in my house. The answer to which is …no I don’t.

I have actually been debating mostly about the use of magic in the HP books and how that is not something I think that young Catholic children should be learning about.

Don’t tell me, you’ve got a degree in HP stidies, I am stupid and a closet occultist etc.

Please calm down. We are all friends here …I thought.

 

[runningdude]

Man may morally use any natural resource or talent for a good purpose.

JK Rowling used her natural talent to write delightful fiction.

In Rowling’s fiction world, magic is simply an element of nature. You say a spell, you directly cause the result. There is nothing immoral occuring.

In the real world, magic does not exist. It is irrational to use something that does not exist, and it is therefore immoral. The the desired result occurs anyways, it is either a coincidence, or someone else did it.

Either way, believing you did something you did not is putting your faith in something that is not the truth. Only Christ is the truth.

 

[Seagull]

J K Rowling is - thee world’s - most richest authors.
Ever.
The Harry Potter brand - has netted 15 billion dollars.

In one year she made 95 million dollars…

Just saying…

What’s your point?

What’s my point !
The love of money - is - the root of evil ( Paul to Timothy )

(Isaiah - has an even more DIRE warning )
Therefore shall evil come upon - thee;
thou shalt not know - from whence it riseth:
and mischief shall fall upon - thee; thou shalt not be able to put it off:
and desolation shall come upon - thee suddenly, which thou shalt not know.
Stand now with thine enchantments,
and with the multitude of thy sorceries,
wherein thou hast laboured from thy youth;
if so be thou shalt be able to profit,
if so be thou mayest prevail.
Let now the astrologers, the stargazers,
the monthly prognosticators, stand up,
and save thee from these things that shall come upon thee.
Behold, they shall be as stubble; the fire shall burn them;
they shall not deliver themselves from the power of the flame:

You have to admit - Jesus would not have written such things - in his thirties.

 

[Lee1]

People who are preoccupied with the occult are often the closest to practicing Christian occultism. They see danger where danger doesn’t lie because it takes their eyes off their own sins.

The occult is any any attempt to pursue hidden spiritual knowledge or power through supernatural/spiritual connection. Religious practices and items become occultish when you move away from faith/trust to control. Do you have faith in God or are you shrouding your home is sacramental talisman? Are you preoccupied with the occult because you’re indulging in it?

Harry Potter is a piece of fiction that is very far removed from the occult.

This was your reply to my prior post.

 

[mVitus]

Just a good video that talk about whether or not the magic in HP is evil.

 

[Lee1]

Is the film made by the Vatican?

If not it’s a subjective view and nothing more.

 

[mVitus]

Is the film made by the Vatican?

If not it’s a subjective view and nothing more.

By that point I’ll point out that every opinion against Harry Potter in this thread is merely a subjective view.