W
Wulfgar
Guest
Ironic because you list Lord of the Rings on both your favorite books list and your favorite movies list on your public profile. Just saying…
- Status
J
jimmy
Guest
I like LOtR. I don’t think it is any worsemorally than I think Harry Potter is. In otherwords, I think it is harmless and fun to read/watch. I accept that it is a bit ironic though.
Ironic more because the name of the poster I was responding to is the name of the main character of The Wheel of Time, which is another fantasy series.
L
Lost_Wanderer
Guest
I get the feeling everybody may be misreading your post (including me, my bad).
S
saveusfromhell
Guest
so basicaly noting to do with what i postedJust the fact that religious critics have a cult-like obsession with all of the above.
L
Lost_Wanderer
Guest
On the contrary, you demonstrated all of it perfectly.so basicaly noting to do with what i posted
P
Portrait
Guest
F.A.O.Baelor
Dear Baelor,
Cordial greetings and a very good day. Hope all is well and thankyou for your responses.
Magic, dear friend, concerns taking control in areas of life where man is forbidden to encroach upon, which is precisely what we meet with in Rowling’s Potter tales. Children are taught in Rowling’s world of wizardry to manipulate undefined forces and to submit themselves to no higher law than the wizard authorities who will assist them to exercise their powers ‘wisely’, whatever that is supposed to mean. This is parallel to what occurs in the real world of the occult and has nothing to with physics.
Witchcraft and wizardry have their origin in world of darkness and that is what we need to remember, dear friend. All practices of magic/sorcery, by which one attempts to tame occult powers, so as to place them at one’s service and have supernatural powers over others, is manifestly wrong and gravely contrary to the virtue of true religion.
Indeed, I agree wholeheartedly, dear brother, our children do need to be introduced to art and culture, but that art and culture must needs be culturally healthy and foster within them a desire for truth and virtue. Alas, this the inferior Potter series of books woefully fails to do, with its inverted and very muddled spirituality, where bad is good.
What the pro-Potterites/supporters continually fail to appreciate, dear friend, is that there is incontrovertably a close parallel between Potter’s magic and witchcraft and its real life counterpart and it is this close resemblance which is most disturbing and problematic, given that the books are primarily intended for a young readership. Our godless secular society may not be unduly concerned about this, but those who profess the holy religion of Christ should be. Were you aware that Father Gabreile Amorth, an exorcist of the diocese of Rome, has admonished parent’s against the Potter books in an interview with the ANSA news agency? He said: “Behind Harry Potter hides the signature of the king of darkness, the Devil”. Moreover, he said that many of the ideas expressed in the books were from the realm of darkness and that they contain innumerable references to magic, “magic is always recourse to the Devil”. He further censured the disordered morality sadly presented in Rowling’s works, which he believes, like many others, reinforces moral relativism. What he does not say is that Rowling’s magic “is part of physics”. Whilst it is quite true that Father is only voicing his own opinion and not uttering official Church teaching, it should be noted that the Vatican has never disowned or denounced his opinions, thus one can only assume that it does not deem them to be extreme or outrageous. In any event, many of us would prefer to listen to what Father Amorth has to say than to listen to those who have a fanatical allegiance to the Potter books and who feel that they must defend them at all costs.
Sadly, dear friend, no I do not feel that parents today are being vigilant enough as regards their children’s reading choices. Many of them, including Catholic parents, easily buckle under intense pressure from their children not to appear “religious cranks” or joyless priggs. Some parents have a morbid fear that if they forbid their children to read the Potter books, then their children will turn against them and accuse them of being ‘mean’. Thus for the sake of a peaceful home they avoid making waves and do not assert their rightful parental authority.
This is very unfortunate but our lot is cast in a day when children exert a great deal of influence over their parents decision making, far more than used to be case, I am afraid.
Yes, dear friend, I would implore parents, even those now browsing this thread, to be more vigilant as regards their children’s choice of reading material. One can only hope and pray that the counsel one gives will be heeded and that those parents who negligently allow their children to read or watch this Potter stuff will have a change of heart after giving the matter some careful and prayerful thought.
There is certainly room for discussion of the Potter series with our children and I would never wish to stifle “open dialogue”. However, we will as parents make plain why it is that we disapprove of the series so strongly and why we do not think it morally permissible to allow our children to befoul their souls by reading such culturally unhealthy material. In the end, we as parents will make the choices, irrespective of how much discussion takes place.
Of course, dear brother, we will not allow our child to read inferior and morally defective books that might indoctrinate them into a morally ambiguous world-view and which might stimulate interest in the real world occultic subcultures. Indeed, it would be a deriliction of our duty as parents to be lax or indifferent in this regard.
My heart truly weeps for today’s youth, for they deserve so much better than inferior Potter books and we need to introduce them to the great timeless children’s classics that have stood the test of time and will continue to do so. A few years ago, dear friend, here in the UK, the *Daily Mail *newspaper published each fortnignt a classic children’s book (‘The Children’s Golden Library’), which includes books such as The Swiss Family Robinson, Treasure Island, The Railway Children, Little House on the Prairie, The Borrowers and Black Beauty. This was in the belief that not enough of our youngsters are aquinted with these classics and suffered literary impoverishment thereby. Splendid idea, I say, they are in a totally different league to the Potter nonsense.
God bless.
Warmest good wishes,
Portrait
Pax
Dear Baelor,
Cordial greetings and a very good day. Hope all is well and thankyou for your responses.
Magic, dear friend, concerns taking control in areas of life where man is forbidden to encroach upon, which is precisely what we meet with in Rowling’s Potter tales. Children are taught in Rowling’s world of wizardry to manipulate undefined forces and to submit themselves to no higher law than the wizard authorities who will assist them to exercise their powers ‘wisely’, whatever that is supposed to mean. This is parallel to what occurs in the real world of the occult and has nothing to with physics.
Witchcraft and wizardry have their origin in world of darkness and that is what we need to remember, dear friend. All practices of magic/sorcery, by which one attempts to tame occult powers, so as to place them at one’s service and have supernatural powers over others, is manifestly wrong and gravely contrary to the virtue of true religion.
Indeed, I agree wholeheartedly, dear brother, our children do need to be introduced to art and culture, but that art and culture must needs be culturally healthy and foster within them a desire for truth and virtue. Alas, this the inferior Potter series of books woefully fails to do, with its inverted and very muddled spirituality, where bad is good.
What the pro-Potterites/supporters continually fail to appreciate, dear friend, is that there is incontrovertably a close parallel between Potter’s magic and witchcraft and its real life counterpart and it is this close resemblance which is most disturbing and problematic, given that the books are primarily intended for a young readership. Our godless secular society may not be unduly concerned about this, but those who profess the holy religion of Christ should be. Were you aware that Father Gabreile Amorth, an exorcist of the diocese of Rome, has admonished parent’s against the Potter books in an interview with the ANSA news agency? He said: “Behind Harry Potter hides the signature of the king of darkness, the Devil”. Moreover, he said that many of the ideas expressed in the books were from the realm of darkness and that they contain innumerable references to magic, “magic is always recourse to the Devil”. He further censured the disordered morality sadly presented in Rowling’s works, which he believes, like many others, reinforces moral relativism. What he does not say is that Rowling’s magic “is part of physics”. Whilst it is quite true that Father is only voicing his own opinion and not uttering official Church teaching, it should be noted that the Vatican has never disowned or denounced his opinions, thus one can only assume that it does not deem them to be extreme or outrageous. In any event, many of us would prefer to listen to what Father Amorth has to say than to listen to those who have a fanatical allegiance to the Potter books and who feel that they must defend them at all costs.
Sadly, dear friend, no I do not feel that parents today are being vigilant enough as regards their children’s reading choices. Many of them, including Catholic parents, easily buckle under intense pressure from their children not to appear “religious cranks” or joyless priggs. Some parents have a morbid fear that if they forbid their children to read the Potter books, then their children will turn against them and accuse them of being ‘mean’. Thus for the sake of a peaceful home they avoid making waves and do not assert their rightful parental authority.
This is very unfortunate but our lot is cast in a day when children exert a great deal of influence over their parents decision making, far more than used to be case, I am afraid.
Yes, dear friend, I would implore parents, even those now browsing this thread, to be more vigilant as regards their children’s choice of reading material. One can only hope and pray that the counsel one gives will be heeded and that those parents who negligently allow their children to read or watch this Potter stuff will have a change of heart after giving the matter some careful and prayerful thought.
There is certainly room for discussion of the Potter series with our children and I would never wish to stifle “open dialogue”. However, we will as parents make plain why it is that we disapprove of the series so strongly and why we do not think it morally permissible to allow our children to befoul their souls by reading such culturally unhealthy material. In the end, we as parents will make the choices, irrespective of how much discussion takes place.
Of course, dear brother, we will not allow our child to read inferior and morally defective books that might indoctrinate them into a morally ambiguous world-view and which might stimulate interest in the real world occultic subcultures. Indeed, it would be a deriliction of our duty as parents to be lax or indifferent in this regard.
My heart truly weeps for today’s youth, for they deserve so much better than inferior Potter books and we need to introduce them to the great timeless children’s classics that have stood the test of time and will continue to do so. A few years ago, dear friend, here in the UK, the *Daily Mail *newspaper published each fortnignt a classic children’s book (‘The Children’s Golden Library’), which includes books such as The Swiss Family Robinson, Treasure Island, The Railway Children, Little House on the Prairie, The Borrowers and Black Beauty. This was in the belief that not enough of our youngsters are aquinted with these classics and suffered literary impoverishment thereby. Splendid idea, I say, they are in a totally different league to the Potter nonsense.
God bless.
Warmest good wishes,
Portrait
Pax
S
Samson33
Guest
Well I agree with you on one thing. Kids these days would be a a lot better off mentally and spiritually If they read some of the classics that you recommended. Treasure Island was wonderful and as you said earlier the Chronicles of Narnia are far superior to the Potter books. I was told once that positive affirmation works better than punishment. So maybe instead of forbidding children to read Potter we should encourage them to read the right things. Treasure Island, Black Beauty, Mother Goose, Narnia and hopefully they will even like to read the Bible.(stories like the Book of Jonah and Noah’s Ark would be wonderful for kids to read, but I wouldn’t read to them an account of the Passion, to grim for their little hearts)
M
Marc_Anthony
Guest
I think responding to Portrait is a lost cause at this point, guys. We’ve made our point.
S
saveusfromhell
Guest
On the contrary, you demonstrated all of it perfectly.
Like to show me where I did, I have no opinion on harry potter if its occult or not, and certainly don’t thinks exorcists are infailable, or tasers. (of course as usual i never posted about tasers or exorcists ) thou shalt not bear false wittness against thy neighbour.
I tried watching the first movie and left after 3/4 of an hour as it was rubbish obviously aimed at children, but if others like it great for them.
As I said I rarely if ever look in on harry potter threads but often see the names posting on it, on the forums page,over the last number of years, nearly on a daily basis and this being a site dedicated to educating and deepening the faith.
As such it appears to me for a long time that some of you to have gone over to idolising harry,But hi knock yourself out,
i expect as usual loads of tangents to this that have nothing to do with my post.
B
Baelor
Guest
No, because magic is simply part of the fabric of Rowling’s universe. Her world is not our own. The fact that any attempts at the spells in the book will fail in the real world is exact proof that you are wrong.
They are perfectly well-defined, if not understood. The concept of gravity is a force that was undefined physically for some time, and yet no one is claiming that that was occult. Magic in Rowling’s universe is simply a force like gravity. It is not the result of arcane knowledge, as not everyone can even be a wizard. You are essentially saying that mutants in X-Men are also occult. That seems an untenable position.
That is a completely separate issue.
Wrong; see above.
I am not your “dear friend;” out of respect for me, please stop calling me that.
Witchcraft and wizardry in the real world have their origin in a world of darkness. What is the origin of witchcraft in the Harry Potter series, according to the rules and laws of that series.
Correct. No one is saying otherwise. The fact remains that Rowling’s system of magic is not occult. If you disagree, please demonstrate with actual quotations from the novels in what way the magic as defined there stems from occult practices.
Portrait, please take a step back. Rowling could have called her magic system anything. “Psynergy.” “Psi.” “Energy.” “Force.” etc. The most common word is “magic,” and she went with that. In fact, her entire work is a deconstruction of real-world magic, not a manifestation of it.
Uh…yes.
So the Potter series advocates for every single falsehood in the entire world? The Potter characters support abortion, Satan-worship, gay marriage, women priests, are apostates, reject the Trinity, etc.? Could you please show how the series presents “bad” as “good?”
Please specify exactly what that parallel is using quotations from the books.
He has no moral authority.
He has no control over reality and factual accuracy.
That is a different issue.
So? That does not mean that Rowling’s magic is not part of physics.
The Vatican does not respond to every statement made by every member of the clergy. This means nothing. The Vatican has also not condemned the Harry Potter series.
And many would rather adhere to factual accuracy and rationality and God. You may reject all of those things at your peril.
Portrait, you are ignorant of the very topic you are discussing and you seem not to care. I will pray for you.
But consider actually substantiating your arguments with passages (or even secondary sources) on the books. Surely you must be able to do this, for only a fool would argue for something with no evidence. I have even pointed out places where it would be appropriate.
M
Marc_Anthony
Guest
Have you ever noticed that the only reason people ever post to defend the books is because other people attacked them FIRST?Like to show me where I did, I have no opinion on harry potter if its occult or not, and certainly don’t thinks exorcists are infailable, or tasers. (of course as usual i never posted about tasers or exorcists ) thou shalt not bear false wittness against thy neighbour.
I tried watching the first movie and left after 3/4 of an hour as it was rubbish obviously aimed at children, but if others like it great for them.
As I said I rarely if ever look in on harry potter threads but often see the names posting on it, on the forums page,over the last number of years, nearly on a daily basis and this being a site dedicated to educating and deepening the faith.
As such it appears to me for a long time that some of you to have gone over to idolising harry,But hi knock yourself out,
i expect as usual loads of tangents to this that have nothing to do with my post.
You don’t see us trying to evangelize to the Harry Potter novels. We’re not trying to get everybody to like the series. The fact is though that it’s an extremely popular series that has meant a lot in a lot of people’s lives, so of course when people say ridiculous things about them the legions of fans will come to the books’ defense. It’s not because we idolize Harry, it’s because we love the series. Maybe if everybody else just STOPPED bringing it up you wouldn’t see so many so-called “idolizers”.
R
Razanir
Guest
Not that it matters, but as an aside, my name is from LotR. Pippin’s name is Westron is Razanur, but when I first used this username (on a different site) I misremembered it. Since then, Razanir’s been by name on fora.
Interesting that you mention “Force.” Out of question, Portrait, what do you think of Star Wars with its monistic Jedi religion?
L
Lost_Wanderer
Guest
It kinda shows how spiritually arrogant the self-proclaimed ‘spiritual warfare’ camp really is. They join in and cheer on people who more or less belief the devil is like some boss character. If they say fantasy nuts are out of tune with reality, well wait till the say the folks here. They believe in everything from giant sea monsters to pagans conjuring real swarms of flies.
P
Pheonix
Guest
And what “areas of life where man is forbidden to encroach upon” do the books’ characters use magic to take control of? Cite specific evidence from the books, please.
One could argue that the the Killing Curse, the Cruciatus Curse, and the Imperious Curse fit the bill. Rowling and her characters, however, make it quite clear that those spells are “Unforgivable.” Casting one of those spells on another, unless there is sufficient evidence to prove that one cast it under the influence of the Imperious Curse, will immediately land the witch or wizard in Azkaban.
How are the forces “undefined”?
A wise use of magic would be what much of the series is based around: defending against the wicked uses of evil (presented in the books as the “Dark Arts”).
The series states love is the greatest magic in the universe. And, as the old saying goes, “love conquers all.” Harry Potter would have not have been able to vanquish Voldemort without love. Period.
Then why have Wiccans, pagans, and other people who practice magic stated that the magic in Harry Potter is nothing like the magic they practice?
Please substantiate your claims, Portrait. Cite specific evidence from the books that the universe’s magic is occultic in nature. You must also cite specific evidence from occultic sources to prove that Harry Potter’s magic is, in fact, a parallel of the occult.
And the magic in Harry Potter does not have origin in the world of darkness. If you disagree, then please cite specific evidence from the books to support your view.
The fact of the matter remains that the magic comes from an*** unspecified source.*** For all we know, the source is God. J. K. Rowling is a Christian, so this idea would make sense.
And the magic in Harry Potter does not fit the Catechism’s definition of magic, Portrait. Where in the series do the characters “[attempt] to tame occult powers, so as to place them at [their] service and have supernatural powers over others”? Cite specific evidence from the books, please.
You haven’t supported your claim that Harry Potter is “culturally unhealthy.”
What is “bad” in Harry Potter that is presented as “good,” Portrait? Cite specific evidence from the books, please.
You haven’t support your opinion that the series is a “close parallel” of real occultic magic, Portrait. You do realize that unsubstantiated opinions can easily be dismissed as false, correct?
And he is flat-out wrong.
And he is flat-out wrong.
And what evidence did he cite to support this claim?
Is Father Amorth an infallible interpreter of literature, Portrait?
Argument from silence.
P
Pheonix
Guest
continued…
And stop being a hypocrite, Portrait. You claim that those of us who are defending the series have a “fanatical allegiance” to the books. You have a “fanatical dis-allegiance” to the books, and you feel you must try and discredit the series at all costs.
(And I’ll be replying to your response to me within due course. My residence hall’s power has been going on and off due to the effects of Sandy and a recent snowfall.)
Who is a better source of information about the Harry Potter series: people who have read the book or people who haven’t?
And stop being a hypocrite, Portrait. You claim that those of us who are defending the series have a “fanatical allegiance” to the books. You have a “fanatical dis-allegiance” to the books, and you feel you must try and discredit the series at all costs.
With good reason, if you ask me.
I would have to agree that preventing children from reading a harmless book series makes parents “religious cranks” or “joyless priggs.”
There is nothing inherently wrong with the series. Therefore, there is no reason to prevent children from reading it.
Preventing children from reading a harmless book series is an abuse of parental authority.
- You haven’t supported your claim that the series is “inferior.”
- You haven’t supported your claim that the series is “morally defective.”
- The Harry Potter universe is not “morally ambiguous.”
- The Harry Potter universe is not “occultic.”
And that’s your opinion.
(And I’ll be replying to your response to me within due course. My residence hall’s power has been going on and off due to the effects of Sandy and a recent snowfall.)
L
Lost_Wanderer
Guest
You’ve pretty much exposed Portrait for what his camp really is. I’ve asked them a thousand times what they have against people with fantastical abilities. That’s basically what that argument is. It shows how much their camp hate anything that gives people what they don’t have in our reality.
This so-called argument that states such powers enroach on God’s territories is not only wrong, it reeks with the anti-progressive mentality that has so long stigmatized our faith. It’s why I shudder at the thought of waking up to a world full of magic with them still in it.
J
jimmy
Guest
In Harry Potter, magic is a part of the universe, so it is just as defined as electricity is in the real world.
We are talking about a fantasy book, not the real world. That means that it doesn’t accord to the real world.
Second, you seem to be obsessed with the specific words used. As pointed out, Rowlings could have called it the force and it wouldn’t have changed a thing. No one would question it either. Or is Star Wars occultish now, and it promotes witchcraft?
What is this close parallel and where is the evidence? I wasn’t aware that anyone in the real world ran around with a stick yelling ‘avendoraldora’, except for play maybe.
In your post there is more fantasy than there is in Harry Potter.
Above all, these people who tend to oppose Harry Potter sound like cult members. They are the first people to join Jim Jones, and if someone claimed to be Jesus reborn they would be the first to follow.
T
TypesAndShadows
Guest
I’d just like to point out that in the 6th and 7th books, Harry learns that sin damages one’s soul, and the reason Voldemort is so deeply damaged is because he has exploited the serious damage done to his soul when he murders people, seeking immortality by ripping his soul to pieces.
Harry dies and sees some form of afterlife, where he is allowed to see part of Voldemort’s damaged soul. In his final battle with Voldemort, Harry urges Voldemort to try for some repentance, although in order to mend the damage to his soul he would have to manage pure repentance. Only after Harry has tried this does he finally, for the very first time, cast a fatal spell and kill Voldemort, having exhausted all other options.
Harry’s refusal to kill others, or even stun them when it is likely that stunning them would cause them to fall to their deaths, is something that others (trying to make him more ‘practical’) try to change, but Harry won’t budge. He saves his enemies whenever he can.
I think it’s amazing that so many children, of all backgrounds, have eagerly read stories that talk so frankly about repentance and sacrificial love.
Harry dies and sees some form of afterlife, where he is allowed to see part of Voldemort’s damaged soul. In his final battle with Voldemort, Harry urges Voldemort to try for some repentance, although in order to mend the damage to his soul he would have to manage pure repentance. Only after Harry has tried this does he finally, for the very first time, cast a fatal spell and kill Voldemort, having exhausted all other options.
Harry’s refusal to kill others, or even stun them when it is likely that stunning them would cause them to fall to their deaths, is something that others (trying to make him more ‘practical’) try to change, but Harry won’t budge. He saves his enemies whenever he can.
I think it’s amazing that so many children, of all backgrounds, have eagerly read stories that talk so frankly about repentance and sacrificial love.
P
Portrait
Guest
F.A.O. Baelor
Dear Baelor,
Hello again and thankyou for your latest response.
The universe created in the Potter series is one of the occult and sadly reveals a moral ambivalence at work. Like nature there are laws that govern the moral life, thus even Rowling’s fantasy world still needs to reinforce the laws of the moral universe. Every man engages upon a moral journey, and it is very important that each individual has good guide posts to help him find his way. Nowhere is this more important than in the early formation of children and thus the books that they read must needs uphold the moral laws of the universe, otherwise they are unsound and culturally unhealthy . This, I believe, to be the fundamental problem with the Potter books and why I, and many others, entertain grave misgivings respecting them.
Your analogy with the force of gravity does not stand up to scrutiny, since gravity is not a malevolent power whilst occultic magic decidedly is, for it is intentionally used to harm people.
The witchcraft and wizardry in Rowling’s Potter tales must still conform to the laws of the moral universe, as I stated above. As an author Rowling cannot disgregard those God-given laws and adopt her own laws for the series, at least not without rendering her work unsatisfactory and usound from a Christian standpoint.
In addition to Rowling’s use of the symbol world of the occult as her primary metaphor and occultic activities as the dramatic engine of her plots, which I adverted to in an earlier post, you have a class in Divination and hexes freely used. Moreover, in Potter-world the characters are engaged in activities which in real life corrupt us, darken the mind, weaken the will and pull the practioner down into spiritual bondage. What is most disturbing is that the heroes/heroines plunge ever deeper into that world without displaying any negative side effects, only an increase in ‘character’. This is a lie, indeed, it is a satanic lie which deceived our very first parents in Eden. Moreover, can we really baptize the symbols and activities of the realm of darkness without any negative effects? We are no longer the early Christians cleansing a classical temple and consecrating it for sacred use as a church. On the contrary, we are in the midst of a social revolution that is assailing the truly sacred and degrading it at every turn.
The very sad truth is, though it may not be pleasant to contemplate, that there are real people in the real world that practice witchcraft, who cast spells, perform rituals and observe results. Now the problem which many sincere Catholics (not wide-eyed Fundamentalists) have with these Potter books is that Rowling writes as if such powers can be channeled into good, and herein lies the danger. Rituals, spells and brews are used in the real world of witchcraft and only work because of the power of evil spirits. This being the case they can never result in good and portraying these innately evil activities as if somehow they could be harnessed for good is, once again, a dangerous lie and renders the books culturally unhealthy reading material for young children.
As regards Father Amorth, many of us believe that a man who has had decades of experience in directly combating evil, deserves to be listened to, since if any man can detect the unwholesome and dark elements within the Potter tales then he surely can. It is, after all, his area of expertise. Evidently his remarks respecting Potter were not welcome because coverage of his warnings were significantly downplayed. It seems that men do not wish to hear the truth, even when it comes from a reliable and sound source!
True, the Vatican office does not respond to every statement by a member of the clergy, but this is an issue over which there has been much heated debate within the Catholic world and media, thus if Father Amorth had said something that was so obviously outrageous and so wide of the mark, then one would have expected him to have had his knuckles wrapped. At any rate, the Vatican has not officially approved of the Potter books, but has left the matter to the prudential judgment of individual Catholics. Men are free to negatively appraise these Potter books, as Father Amorth has done.
Having been involved in several debates on *Harry Potter *here at CAF, I have always endeavoured to provide what I believe are cogent reasons for giving these books a very wide berth. Certainly it is accurate to say is that men have strongly disagreed with those reasons, but that is quite another matter from not providing any evidence.
Baelor, I am sorry that you object to my use of ‘dear friend’, but I can assure you that it was only ever intended as a term of brotherly affection during our discussions. However, in compliance with your wishes I will desist from using it in any future posts to you.
God bless you and goodbye for now.
Warmest good wishes,
Portrait
Pax:tiphat:
Dear Baelor,
Hello again and thankyou for your latest response.
The universe created in the Potter series is one of the occult and sadly reveals a moral ambivalence at work. Like nature there are laws that govern the moral life, thus even Rowling’s fantasy world still needs to reinforce the laws of the moral universe. Every man engages upon a moral journey, and it is very important that each individual has good guide posts to help him find his way. Nowhere is this more important than in the early formation of children and thus the books that they read must needs uphold the moral laws of the universe, otherwise they are unsound and culturally unhealthy . This, I believe, to be the fundamental problem with the Potter books and why I, and many others, entertain grave misgivings respecting them.
Your analogy with the force of gravity does not stand up to scrutiny, since gravity is not a malevolent power whilst occultic magic decidedly is, for it is intentionally used to harm people.
The witchcraft and wizardry in Rowling’s Potter tales must still conform to the laws of the moral universe, as I stated above. As an author Rowling cannot disgregard those God-given laws and adopt her own laws for the series, at least not without rendering her work unsatisfactory and usound from a Christian standpoint.
In addition to Rowling’s use of the symbol world of the occult as her primary metaphor and occultic activities as the dramatic engine of her plots, which I adverted to in an earlier post, you have a class in Divination and hexes freely used. Moreover, in Potter-world the characters are engaged in activities which in real life corrupt us, darken the mind, weaken the will and pull the practioner down into spiritual bondage. What is most disturbing is that the heroes/heroines plunge ever deeper into that world without displaying any negative side effects, only an increase in ‘character’. This is a lie, indeed, it is a satanic lie which deceived our very first parents in Eden. Moreover, can we really baptize the symbols and activities of the realm of darkness without any negative effects? We are no longer the early Christians cleansing a classical temple and consecrating it for sacred use as a church. On the contrary, we are in the midst of a social revolution that is assailing the truly sacred and degrading it at every turn.
The very sad truth is, though it may not be pleasant to contemplate, that there are real people in the real world that practice witchcraft, who cast spells, perform rituals and observe results. Now the problem which many sincere Catholics (not wide-eyed Fundamentalists) have with these Potter books is that Rowling writes as if such powers can be channeled into good, and herein lies the danger. Rituals, spells and brews are used in the real world of witchcraft and only work because of the power of evil spirits. This being the case they can never result in good and portraying these innately evil activities as if somehow they could be harnessed for good is, once again, a dangerous lie and renders the books culturally unhealthy reading material for young children.
As regards Father Amorth, many of us believe that a man who has had decades of experience in directly combating evil, deserves to be listened to, since if any man can detect the unwholesome and dark elements within the Potter tales then he surely can. It is, after all, his area of expertise. Evidently his remarks respecting Potter were not welcome because coverage of his warnings were significantly downplayed. It seems that men do not wish to hear the truth, even when it comes from a reliable and sound source!
True, the Vatican office does not respond to every statement by a member of the clergy, but this is an issue over which there has been much heated debate within the Catholic world and media, thus if Father Amorth had said something that was so obviously outrageous and so wide of the mark, then one would have expected him to have had his knuckles wrapped. At any rate, the Vatican has not officially approved of the Potter books, but has left the matter to the prudential judgment of individual Catholics. Men are free to negatively appraise these Potter books, as Father Amorth has done.
Having been involved in several debates on *Harry Potter *here at CAF, I have always endeavoured to provide what I believe are cogent reasons for giving these books a very wide berth. Certainly it is accurate to say is that men have strongly disagreed with those reasons, but that is quite another matter from not providing any evidence.
Baelor, I am sorry that you object to my use of ‘dear friend’, but I can assure you that it was only ever intended as a term of brotherly affection during our discussions. However, in compliance with your wishes I will desist from using it in any future posts to you.
God bless you and goodbye for now.
Warmest good wishes,
Portrait
Pax:tiphat:
L
Lost_Wanderer
Guest
I didn’t know that the laws of physics were moral laws. Anyone wanna make a thread about that?
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