Harry Potter?!?

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wisdom_3_5 said:
I wasnā€™t using Ulysees & LotR as examples of childrenā€™s literature, but as example of the heroā€™s journey and how heros are flawed.

Susan and Peter donā€™t always act very well. And Edmund and Eustace are examples of ā€œbad choicesā€. The point I was trying to make was that all characters are flawed. So are we and we can identify with them. We recognize their flaws in ourselves, see them overcome the obstacles and have hope. We rejoice in the triumph of good over evil through a flawed character. Thatā€™s our story. We are flawed, from Adam, and we triumph through Christ! (Yeah, there is Christian symbolism in the HP series).

Now to your HP example: Again, in this case there was a disregard for the rules but why? They had just saved Ginny from certain death. Do you worry about the rules or about yourself (getting expelled in this case) or do you save a life? Life trumps rules.
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Yes there are flaws in people its not flaws I have a problem with.

Thatā€™s my point, thereā€™s no reason to write those kind of situations childrenā€™s works. The Catholic Church teaches that ends never justify the means. There are some ā€œrulesā€ that can not be broken even if it would ā€œsaveā€ a life. You and I know there are limits to certain authorities and certain situations make it okay to bend rules. We didnā€™t need Harry Potter to teach us that. I feel that Harry Potter takes this concept to far and is introduced to children at a time when they are already conflicted about a lot of things.
 
LJN21 said:
Yes there are flaws in people its not flaws I have a problem with.

Thatā€™s my point, thereā€™s no reason to write those kind of situations childrenā€™s works. The Catholic Church teaches that ends never justify the means. There are some ā€œrulesā€ that can not be broken even if it would ā€œsaveā€ a life. You and I know there are limits to certain authorities and certain situations make it okay to bend rules. We didnā€™t need Harry Potter to teach us that. I feel that Harry Potter takes this concept to far and is introduced to children at a time when they are already conflicted about a lot of things.
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So much for Tom Sawyer, Huckelberry Finn,Little Women, Horatio Hornblower, , Dr Seuss et al. The childrens section of the .Library would be empty if left up to you
 
estesbob said:
So much for Tom Sawyer, Huckelberry Finn,Little Women, Horatio Hornblower, , Dr Seuss et al. The childrens section of the .Library would be empty if left up to you
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You need help.

I donā€™t have a problem with any of those. Altho I highly doubt your average student could even read and comprehend them šŸ˜› Except Dr Seuss maybe.

Whats more this is just another example of your pointless commentary in this thread. Maybe you could try a little reading comprehension too.
 
LJN21 said:
You need help.

I donā€™t have a problem with any of those. Altho I highly doubt your average student could even read and comprehend them šŸ˜› Except Dr Seuss maybe.

Whats more this is just another example of your pointless commentary in this thread. Maybe you could try a little reading comprehension too.
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You said the Ends NEVER Jusitfy the means and therefore such situations should not be presented in Chidrens books., In Tom Sawyer Tom Hides Jim , a runaway slave, from his legal owners. Huckleberry Finn Plays hookey and smokes. Tom Fools kids into painting his fence.

How can we possibly let vulnerable children read this-might they not get the wrong idea?
 
estesbob said:
Of which there are millions upon millions. Only the truly enlightened see them for the evil they are.
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Hundreds of millions would be a better guess, and only a vbery small percentage bother to argue about the books.
 
estesbob said:
You said the Ends NEVER Jusitfy the means and therefore such situations should not be presented in Chidrens books., In Tom Sawyer Tom Hides Jim , a runaway slave, from his legal owners. Huckleberry Finn Plays hookey and smokes. Tom Fools kids into painting his fence.

How can we possibly let vulnerable children read this-might they not get the wrong idea?
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How about reading my post because that is not at all what I said.
 
LJN21 said:
Yes there are flaws in people its not flaws I have a problem with.

Thatā€™s my point, thereā€™s no reason to write those kind of situations childrenā€™s works. The Catholic Church teaches that ends never justify the means. There are some ā€œrulesā€ that can not be broken even if it would ā€œsaveā€ a life. You and I know there are limits to certain authorities and certain situations make it okay to bend rules. We didnā€™t need Harry Potter to teach us that. I feel that Harry Potter takes this concept to far and is introduced to children at a time when they are already conflicted about a lot of things.
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Now youā€™re not talking childrenā€™s literature šŸ™‚ .

No we donā€™t need HP to teach us, but we use it (and all literature) as a tool for teaching/learning about morality.

I donā€™t think children (people) are conflicted about lying. They know its wrong. I donā€™t know any kids (or adults) who think its ok to lie, but will they continue? Yeah, because theyā€™re human.

I just think that thereā€™s more good to focus on in the series than nit-picking out a handful of instances where the character displays a flaw that is common to everyone.

I recently read the first three to my daughter (8). We discussed bullying and how to act when she (or someone else) is confronted by a bully. We discussed good vs. evil (complete with all the symbolism, which she really enjoyed). We discussed courage, what is courage how was X courageous etc. And yes, we talked about the importance of truth and telling the truth, standing up for the truth. If anything she is more conscience about lying and its consequences after reading the books.

You see the HP glass half-empty, I see it as half-full.
 
Another puzzling fact.

Wicca has grown at incredible rates (espeically among teens) during the time HP books and movies have washed across the globe. Curious coincidence? Perhaps.
 
Tom317 said:
Another puzzling fact.

Wicca has grown at incredible rates (espeically among teens) during the time HP books and movies have washed across the globe. Curious coincidence? Perhaps.
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I think Wicca has grown not because of HP but because there are no ā€œrulesā€ when it comes to sexual relationships. And the sexual morals of our society have dropped significantly since 1930 (but thatā€™s another thread).

You know that one woman one man stuff is **such **a burden.:rolleyes: (note my sarcastic smiley).
 
Tom317 said:
Another puzzling fact.

Wicca has grown at incredible rates (espeically among teens) during the time HP books and movies have washed across the globe. Curious coincidence? Perhaps.
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Biggest jump since Bewitched was on the air, im sure.
 
wisdom_3_5 said:
I think Wicca has grown not because of HP but because there are no ā€œrulesā€ when it comes to sexual relationships. And the sexual morals of our society have dropped significantly since 1930 (but thatā€™s another thread).

You know that one woman one man stuff is **such **a burden.:rolleyes: (note my sarcastic smiley).
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Perhaps, I have no way of knowing either way. I do not that Wicca has grown at a rate of 143% annualy over the last ten years, the same period of time HP has been outā€¦I find that curious and interesting. It might mean nothing, yet some people think HP contributes to Wiccan membership. Of course, there still remain a very small number of people who claim to be Wiccans, yet it is still interesting.

BTW, the no rules culture has been around since the 60s and Wicca has grown recently.
 
Tom317 said:
Perhaps, I have no way of knowing either way. I do not that Wicca has grown at a rate of 143% annualy over the last ten years, the same period of time HP has been outā€¦I find that curious and interesting. It might mean nothing, yet some people think HP contributes to Wiccan membership. Of course, there still remain a very small number of people who claim to be Wiccans, yet it is still interesting.

BTW, the no rules culture has been around since the 60s and Wicca has grown recently.
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The no rules culture got rolling along in the 60ā€™s. It has snowballed into todayā€™s predicament. I would say the internet has had alot to do with the speed of growth of Wicca as well.
 
I love the harry potter books! they are funny and interesting and entertaining especially in the 3rd one when harry blows up his aunt and then escapes on a purple bus LOL:rotfl: and then the fourth one when the weazlys blow up rthe fireplace :rotfl: and then the fifth one when he gets all those detentions from umbridge! its hilarious!:rotfl: :rotfl:.My favourite character is Luna its good when she goes to the DA meetings and esopecially when she gets harry an interveiw in the Quibbler. I see nothing whatsoever wrong with the hp books.As long as we read them with Caholic eyes,its a good thing.There are loads of funny stories in the Bible, too.God likes us to be entertained.I know He likes us to read good stories like Harry potter, so I do.Just one thing bothers me- Harry and his friends donā€™t go to Church, and donā€™t mention the true meaning of Christmas and Easter.I wish they did.Anyway, theres certainly nothing wrong with reading about magic.other authors such as Enid Blyton and C.s Lewis write about magic too.God likes us to read books, and as long as we prefer and read more of the Bible, its good to read harry potter.
 
Tom317 said:
Another puzzling fact.

Wicca has grown at incredible rates (espeically among teens) during the time HP books and movies have washed across the globe. Curious coincidence? Perhaps.
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excellent point! To take it even furtherā€¦

Free and casual sex grew at incredible rates (especially among teens) during the time Dr. Suess books spread across the globe.

To quote Mr. Spockā€¦ ā€œYour logic is impecable, we are in grave danger!ā€
 
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