Harry Potter?!?

[LJN21]

This statement for me is problematic. Is he the Chief Exorcist, yes, but he has no infalliablity on this issue. Does he have experience with it yes, but he seems to enjoy it a little too much which I found a little disconcerting.Before I met my DH he had been in seminary, and one of the classes they took was on exorcisms(they actually had the exorcist from one of the dioceses around the area teach it) and how if you are an exorcist you should hate your job, not revel in the power of it. The moment the job becomes an obession to you, it becomes dangerous.

I thought this statement of his was certainly interesting, especially that he is starting to disagree with the Vatican.
"The Vatican recently issued a new rite of exorcism which has not met with Father Amorth’s approval. “They say we cannot perform an exorcism unless we know for certain that the Evil One is present. That is ridiculous. It is only through exorcism that the demons reveal themselves. An unnecessary exorcism never hurt anybody.”

Didn’t read anywhere in there were he liked his job or reveled in his “power”.

Do you know for a fact the new rite works? Do you know that unnecessary exorcism is a bad thing?

Your basis for disagreeing with the guy is conjecture and a beginning level exorcism class. I’d really give the head exorcist more credit than that in his area.

The greatest success of the devil is for him to convince us he doesn’t exist or have any influence over us.

 

[estesbob]

I am quite sure no-one here has ever used anaylsis of various works in order to write papers for high school or college, everyone here has ALWAYS read the entire original work and has never leaned on the trusted and respected views of others to help them understand a given work…I guess since I am in the company of perfection, and since I happily admit I am NOT perfect, I guess I stand corrected.

You claim that one of the problems with the harry Potter books is that it justifies the “ends vs the means”, Can you give us sme examples?

 

[Tom317]

You claim that one of the problems with the harry Potter books is that it justifies the “ends vs the means”, Can you give us sme examples?

Sure, can you?

 

[estesbob]

The more I think about this the more irritated I become, that is about the most asinine comment ever. You really need a major wake up call if you do not think there isn’t occult activity in almost every school.

I said that exact words were not necessary for occult spells, I said that writing out the incantation was completely unnecessary to the story line and a major departure for fantasy in general. It links (along with the setting of the book) this work of fiction with the real world. I said this could be enough to give someone interest in things of the occult that might not other wise have been. Have you not ever met any 8-9th graders… yeah there not general imprisonable and wanting to fit in and be popular.

I have never met an 8th or 9th grader who learned how to turn theoir classmates into ferrets by reading harry Potter books

 

[LJN21]

I have never met an 8th or 9th grader who learned how to turn theoir classmates into ferrets by reading harry Potter books

Have you ever met a 8th or 9th grader in a coven? You probably have. They don’t wear pointy hats or cloaks either.

How about a real discussion instead of inane commentary.

 

[Tom317]

I have never met an 8th or 9th grader who learned how to turn theoir classmates into ferrets by reading harry Potter books

Can I ask for a serious response?

Do you believe the devil exists?

Do you believe demons exist?

Do you believe the devil and his demons can and do lead people astray?

Do you believe the occult exists?

Do you believe that demonic possesion happens?

 

[Tom317]

I wonder how many people who love HP and strongly defend it, also think that the garden of eden and the fall are mythical stories in the Bible.

 

[maria29]

Didn’t read anywhere in there were he liked his job or reveled in his “power”.

Do you know for a fact the new rite works? Do you know that unnecessary exorcism is a bad thing?

Your basis for disagreeing with the guy is conjecture and a beginning level exorcism class. I’d really give the head exorcist more credit than that in his area.

The greatest success of the devil is for him to convince us he doesn’t exist or have any influence over us.

I don’t think demons don’t exist.I use to work summers for the Teen Conferences at Franciscan and there were plenty there. (Actually Father Michael Scanlon has done many) and I have seen them at work.

As to whole beginning exorcist class since the man who taught the class was mentored by the Chief exorcist I"d say he’s got proably a good claim on it too.

As to whether unecessary exorcisms work or not, I"ll trust the Vatican on that one. I’ll trust the Vatican too when they say the rite works as well.

I find interesting that you’re more willing to trust him than the Vatican?

 

[maria29]

I wonder how many people who love HP and strongly defend it, also think that the garden of eden and the fall are mythical stories in the Bible.

Nope I believe in those too. I also believe in Church teachings that as far as we know there is no one in hell except for the devil and his “angels”

 

[LJN21]

I don’t think demons don’t exist.I use to work summers for the Teen Conferencs at Franciscan and there were plenty there. (Actually Father Michael Scanlon has done many) and I have seen them at work.

As to whole beginning exorcist class since the man who taught the class was mentored by the Chief exorcist I"d say he’s got proably a good claim on it too.

As to whether unecessary exorcisms work or not, I"ll trust the Vatican on that one. I’ll trust the Vatican too when they say the rite works as well.

I find interesting that you’re more willing to trust him than the Vatican?

I didn’t say that, lets stop reading between the lines shall we. The Vatican isn’t infallible on rite of exorcism tho. It would be interesting to find out what other exorcist think as well. For the most part I’d take his opinion as it is and find other source, but I’m not going to toss it out the window cause I don’t think I agree with him at this point. I well say it looks to be a departure form the traditional method which I find interesting.

 

[LJN21]

Nope I believe in those too. I also believe in Church teachings that as far as we know there is no one in hell except for the devil and his “angels”

So you think the Catholic Church teaches there are quite possibly no human souls in hell?

 

[estesbob]

Sure, can you?

Well lets see. In the Sorcerers stone a Mountain Troll is unleashed in the School-the Students are ordered back to their Dorms and all the teachers take off to look for the Troll. Harry and Ron realize Hemoine is sulking in the Girls Restroom and couldnt have heard the announceent. They head off to warn her and see the troll enter the restroom Hermoine is in. Disobeying the order to return to their Dorms they instead save Hermoine from a 12 foot troll. The disbeyed a teacherMeans) to save a friends life(ends)-what a terrible message to give to our children.

 

[estesbob]

Can I ask for a serious response?

Do you believe the devil exists?

Yes

Do you believe demons exist?

Yes

Do you believe the devil and his demons can and do lead people astray?

yes

Do you believe the occult exists?

No

Do you believe that demonic possesion happens?

Rarely

And the point is?

 

[estesbob]

Have you ever met a 8th or 9th grader in a coven? You probably have. They don’t wear pointy hats or cloaks either.

How about a real discussion instead of inane commentary.

I wonder what Gordon Brown’s reaction was this morning when the picture on the wall in his office started talking to him? Do you think he cleaned out the Flu before the Minister of magic arrived?

 

[LJN21]

I wonder what Gordon Brown’s reaction was this morning when the picture on the wall in his office started talking to him? Do you think he cleaned out the Flu before the Minister of magic arrived?

I dunno maybe you could ask him for me.

 

[LJN21]

Well lets see. In the Sorcerers stone a Mountain Troll is unleashed in the School-the Students are ordered back to their Dorms and all the teachers take off to look for the Troll. Harry and Ron realize Hemoine is sulking in the Girls Restroom and couldnt have heard the announceent. They head off to warn her and see the troll enter the restroom Hermoine is in. Disobeying the order to return to their Dorms they instead save Hermoine from a 12 foot troll. The disbeyed a teacherMeans) to save a friends life(ends)-what a terrible message to give to our children.

Care to explain to me why it is necessary and seemingly good and wholesome to write disobedience to legitimate authority as correct and praiseworthy in a children’s book? (I suppose the SPXX is completely justified!) Hows does this help form children? How does it effect them to read constant disobedience and lying and have it be rewarded and praised?

 

[estesbob]

Care to explain to me why it is necessary and seemingly good and wholesome to write disobedience to legitimate authority as correct and praiseworthy in a children’s book? (I suppose the SPXX is completely justified!) Hows does this help form children? How does it effect them to read constant disobedience and lying and have it be rewarded and praised?

You are right, of Course-they should have let Hermoine die-after all a D in conduct could have followed them for the rest of their lives. I am just lucky that my children turned out OK. But then I didnt have you solid logic to fall back on when I was raising them.

Still suspect they secretly hate me for allowing them to read these horrid books. Why they could be in therapy for years and years-I dont know if Il will ever live down the shame of this.

 

[Tom317]

Rarely

And the point is?

The point is that all of these things exist and there are gateways into all of them. IMO, we are not to live in fear, yet we must not be blind either. Satan wants us to look the other way, he wants us to think a thousand different things are perfectly harmless, he is the great deceiver, the prince of lies.

The Chief Exorcist of Rome believes HP creates a gateway to the occult and I tend to think he is right.Cardinal Ratzinger also held a negative view of the books. Now, both of those opinions are fallible and in no way binding, yet I do think they hold great merit.

 

[maria29]

So you think the Catholic Church teaches there are quite possibly no human souls in hell?

For me there is an important distinction between the assertion that there are no human souls in hell and the assertion that we do not know if there are any human souls in hell.

Sorry should of phrased it better, but my boss called while typing.

 

[Tom317]

Nope I believe in those too. I also believe in Church teachings that as far as we know there is no one in hell except for the devil and his “angels”

The Church does NOT teach that about hell, it only says we do not know who is in hell.