Harry Potter?!?

[Tom317]

verita,

Do you view x-rated movies, would you view such filth?

Do you view porn online or in magazine format, would you use such filth?

If not, why not?

 

[Verita]

I do not have to refrain from posting my views based on more then you realize. This is a free forum and we are posting our opinions about a piece garbage…oops I mean fiction.

Indeed, you have the ability to post your views but no authority on the subject. You can say whatever you want but that doesn’t make you right.

People who insist on condemning Harry Potter refuse to acknowledge that it does take place in a fantasy world different from our own and that children can recognize that. Children realize that average people really can’t talk to snakes or perform magic with a wand. They aren’t stupid. It is people like you, Tom, who insist on insulting your children’s intelligence by insisting they can make these kinds of logical judgements themselves.

Merriam Webster is not a theological work. In the spiritual world, magic is simply a word used to describe demonic work.

Excuse me, but where can I find magic defined as such? Why is the dictionary definition not accurate? The dictionary defines how words are used, simply. You cannot change that. It’s standardized. If words were defined in different ways depending on who is using them and when then our language would devolve into choas.

You say “The only differance between the two is the source of the power and how the power is used.” This is a big difference. God and demons are on opposite sides of the spiritual spectrum.

Exactly. And characters in Harry Potter do not get their magic from Demons. They are born with their powers and therefore they must come from God.

 

[Verita]

verita,

Do you view x-rated movies, would you view such filth?

Do you view porn online or in magazine format, would you use such filth?

If not, why not?

I do not choose to. I am not interested in such. And it really has nothing to do with this subject.

If you are trying to compare a children’s fantasy novel series to pornography then you really don’t understand the issue.

 

[AquinaSavio]

I disagree. Young children are quite impressionable. All one has to do is to see how many HP costumes are worn every year during Halloween to have an idea of this truth. I have personally witnessed children who try to cast spells on other kids, and neighbor kids who have stated they think magic is cool and real, after having read the HP books. Father Amorth is quite right to be careful with these books, it can lead to dangerous paths. Now, does that mean it will hurt all kids, NO! In fact, I would guess the vast majority of kids are not greatly influenced by the books, yet considering many, many millions of kids have read those books, even if only 5% were impacted, that is a large number and it is a number that satan very much likes.

Yes, you make some very good points. You have convinced me…

 

[Tom317]

People who insist on condemning Harry Potter refuse to acknowledge that it does take place in a fantasy world different from our own and that children can recognize that. Children realize that average people really can’t talk to snakes or perform magic with a wand. They aren’t stupid. It is people like you, Tom, who insist on insulting your children’s intelligence by insisting they can make these kinds of logical judgements themselves.

Wrong again. I love my kids enough to protect their intelligence and their souls. I pray more parents would do the same.

Using your logic, we should not bother to teach our kids the faith because their personal intellect will guide them to make the right choices about God. Further, we should not worry about sex-ed classes in schools, or codoms being handed out, or prayers being nixed from public schools. We should not bother giving our kids rules to follow because they are soooo smart that they can figure it out on their own.

Oh pleeeeez…good parents place boundaries on their kids all the time and those boundaries include what they read, what shows they watch on tv, what movies they can see, etc.

 

[AquinaSavio]

People who insist on condemning Harry Potter refuse to acknowledge that it does take place in a fantasy world different from our own and that children can recognize that. Children realize that average people really can’t talk to snakes or perform magic with a wand. They aren’t stupid. It is people like you, Tom, who insist on insulting your children’s intelligence by insisting they can make these kinds of logical judgements themselves.

They can make the distinction, but it isn’t as easy for children as it is for adults. They have very active imaginations. Do not underestimate Satan’s influence.

Excuse me, but where can I find magic defined as such? Why is the dictionary definition not accurate? The dictionary defines how words are used, simply. You cannot change that. It’s standardized. If words were defined in different ways depending on who is using them and when then our language would devolve into choas.

The secularization of the world has made magic into a silly and nonsense type of thing. It does exist. That definition is not accurate. It said that the power comes from the supernatural…but it leaves out the fact that the supernatural sources are demons.

Theological terms are different from secular terms.

 

[Tom317]

I do not choose to. I am not interested in such. And it really has nothing to do with this subject.

If you are trying to compare a children’s fantasy novel series to pornography then you really don’t understand the issue.

I did not think you would use such filth. However, the point I am making is that we do NOT need to personally read or experience everything in order to hold a valid opinion. You, and I, would not use porn because we know its nature and would stay away from it. You personally see HP as harmless, I do not agree. You have read the books, I have many people who have described the books in very good detail to me and I find no reason to read them, very much like I do not need to buy a porn magazine to know it is bad. I also did not read “The Da Vinci Code” because I read a ton of trusted sources on the subject who did read the book and I refused to add one dime to the publisher’s and author’s satanic attempt to attack the Church.

I also do not need to watch a plethora of movies or tv shows after I read what their content is…that is called being wise, it is not a lack of trust.

You said I do not trust my kids, you are right, I do not trust them to have a fully formed conscience yet, that is because they are still KIDS! What they do as adults is between them and God, and I have no say in it at that point.

 

[Tom317]

Yes, you make some very good points. You have convinced me…

Thank you… That is the first time ever, on these forums, that I noticed anyone be convinced of something after talking about it.

Thanks again.

 

[Tom317]

Verita,

As a side note: My kids, as I said before, are not allowed to read HP or to see the movies. Trust me, their lives are not left wanting because of that…they never even noticed it…they are not nearly as attached to the world as many other kids are and I pray and hope it stays that way.

 

[AquinaSavio]

I did not think you would use such filth. However, the point I am making is that we do NOT need to personally read or experience everything in order to hold a valid opinion. You, and I, would not use porn because we know its nature and would stay away from it. You personally see HP as harmless, I do not agree. You have read the books, I have many people who have described the books in very good detail to me and I find no reason to read them, very much like I do not need to buy a porn magazine to know it is bad. I also did not read “The Da Vinci Code” because I read a ton of trusted sources on the subject who did read the book and I refused to add one dime to the publisher’s and author’s satanic attempt to attack the Church.

I also do not need to watch a plethora of movies or tv shows after I read what their content is…that is called being wise, it is not a lack of trust.

You said I do not trust my kids, you are right, I do not trust them to have a fully formed conscience yet, that is because they are still KIDS! What they do as adults is between them and God, and I have no say in it at that point.

I agree.

Verita, I think that you are overestimating children’s intelligence and underestimating Satan’s. After reading The Screwtap Letters, it is apparent how often humans are tricked and they don’t even realize it.

 

[Verita]

Wrong again. I love my kids enough to protect their intelligence and their souls. I pray more parents would do the same.

Using your logic, we should not bother to teach our kids the faith because their personal intellect will guide them to make the right choices about God. Further, we should not worry about sex-ed classes in schools, or codoms being handed out, or prayers being nixed from public schools. We should not bother giving our kids rules to follow because they are soooo smart that they can figure it out on their own.

Oh pleeeeez…good parents place boundaries on their kids all the time and those boundaries include what they read, what shows they watch on tv, what movies they can see, etc.

You are not using my logic at all. You are not using any logic. I regret getting myself into this debate.

 

[Tom317]

I agree.

Verita, I think that you are overestimating children’s intelligence and underestimating Satan’s. After reading The Screwtap Letters, it is apparent how often humans are tricked and they don’t even realize it.

I agree. There is no-one more “formable” then a child (I believe that fact is not lost ons satan).

Parents need to be very careful in raising their children, especially in a world that seems to have lost its way. HP might very well be harmless for older kids and adults who have well formed consciences, but for younger children I feel it places them at great risk and I see no reason to place them even in a minor risk for the sake of some fiction.

 

[AquinaSavio]

You are not using my logic at all. You are not using any logic. I regret getting myself into this debate.

He’s simply trying to make a point. Demonic influence is a very dangerous thing and there are many parallels between it and HP. These are things that parents don’t want to expose their children to or spark any kind of interest.

 

[AquinaSavio]

HP might very well be harmless for older kids and adults who have well formed consciences, but for younger children I feel it places them at great risk and I see no reason to place them even in a minor risk for the sake of some fiction.

That was the point I was trying to make (sorry, fuzzy brain due to cold). Perhaps it is alright for older, Catholic children to read with supervision.

 

[Tom317]

You are not using my logic at all. You are not using any logic. I regret getting myself into this debate.

I am trying to use examples as a means to get my point across. I have never contended that the books are bad for adults, or even for older well formed kids…yet imo those books can be dangerous for young kids and for that reason my kids cannot delve into them. I feel Father Amorth and Cardinal Ratzinger were spot on, we need to be careful.

 

[Tom317]

That was the point I was trying to make (sorry, fuzzy brain due to cold). Perhaps it is alright for older, Catholic children to read with supervision.

Yes, yet even then the parents must try to make sure the kids are ready. Parents have about 12 years or so to make a true impact on their kids minds, after that the kids start developing their own views and ways. That is precious little time to help train kids to cherish eternity with God in Heaven.

I ask myself this: Would God have my kids read HP?

 

[beckers]

You are not using my logic at all. You are not using any logic. I regret getting myself into this debate.

Yes i learned long ago to not even get into these debates. It’s pointless to argue with people who have never read the books. They don’t see or want or could understand the details of the books and it gets way too hard to explain them. They see Magic as the main focus in the books but as you read them you see it more about the magic in passing then it is part of the main story line. It’s part of the story but not the main focus. Harry and his friends have to use their brains more than anything. It’s the classic good vs evil and you get to see people make mistakes and learn from those mistakes. That’s why I enjoy the books. Can’t wait to see the final show down between Voldemort and Harry and see that when confronted with evil which side his long time enemies (Snape and Malfory) end up on. I do hold hope that Malfory ends up helping Harry defeat Voldemort. I have enjoyed reading the books. I even got my dad to start reading them.

Now It is up for each parent to decide if their children are mature enough to read the books. Some children may reach that at an earlier age than others. My sister and I were both avid readers from a young age. I don’t think my parents ever banned us from reading anything. They trusted us because they also knew how they raised us and we felt comfortable talking to them about issues.

If you don’t want your children to read the books or see the movie that is your choice but you should be pushing your opinion as stated facts of faith.

 

[Tom317]

If you don’t want your children to read the books or see the movie that is your choice but you should be pushing your opinion as stated facts of faith.

No-one, including me, is trying say opinion is fact. My opinion is that the books are potentially dangerous and should not be read by young kids…my opinion is not likely going to make any impact on a person who has already invested time and money on the books/movies.

I sure do hope you do not need to buy porn in order to know it is wrong, and I sure hope you do not have a lack of trust of the view of people close to you–that would be very sad indeed if you carried such lack of trust for people.

 

[Tom317]

I do not post my opinions to change the minds of those who defend HP, those people already have made their choices and there is close to zero chance of ever convincing them the books are not good.

I post my views with the hope that the few parents who have not yet decided about HP, might feel convinced to not let their kids read the books or see the movies.

Most people have already made their choices about HP, there are precious few people who might still wonder if kids reading HP is a good thing or bad thing…those are the people I pray and hope to reach.

 

[beckers]

No-one, including me, is trying say opinion is fact. My opinion is that the books are potentially dangerous and should not be read by young kids…my opinion is not likely going to make any impact on a person who has already invested time and money on the books/movies.

I sure do hope you do not need to buy porn in order to know it is wrong, and I sure hope you do not have a lack of trust of the view of people close to you–that would be very sad indeed if you carried such lack of trust for people.

Harry Potter and PORN should not be even remotely in the same category. Your going too far in your logic. HP is a book which is fiction. There are thousands of books that are considered fiction. The church has not come down on all of them. It tells people to read them with caution and use their judgment and realize that it is not real. On the other hand Porn is moral wrong as it degrades women and causes people to sin. The church has come down definitely come down on that. That is why I do not need to see porn to know it’s wrong.

You have not read the HP books so you don’t know what morals it teaches. You have the right to decide that you do not like the principal idea of the books so you choose to not allow your children to read them. But you should not be passing judgment on to those parents who do choose to allow their children to read the books.