Harry Potter?!?

[Tom317]

Harry Potter and PORN should not be even remotely in the same category.

I disagree. IMO, porn is a weapon used by satan to help lead souls astray. Likewise, I believe HP is a weapon used by satan to lead souls (mainly kids) astray. Therefore, in effect they are equal.

You have not read the HP books so you don’t know what morals it teaches. You have the right to decide that you do not like the principal idea of the books so you choose to not allow your children to read them. But you should not be passing judgment on to those parents who do choose to allow their children to read the books.

I did not read “The Da Vinci Code” either, yet I have no doubt how bad that book is. I do not purchase porn magazines, or smutty sex books, yet I seem to have a fairly good grasp on what is contained in them. Do you know how? Because I actually have people I trust and when many people give detailed descriptions of a book, that is enough for me. I do not need to read every book in order to have a clue about its content, and it makes no difference if the content of those books “also” includes some good elements, as a parent I do not want my kids reading fiction that has so many bad/evil elements.

I have a right to my opinion. I think many people who use porn would say something very similar to what you just wrote: “That I have no right passing judgment, etc.”

 

[beckers]

I disagree. IMO, porn is a weapon used by satan to help lead souls astray. Likewise, I believe HP is a weapon used by satan to lead souls (mainly kids) astray. Therefore, in effect they are equal.

I did not read “The Da Vinci Code” either, yet I have no doubt how bad that book is. I do not purchase porn magazines, or smutty sex books, yet I seem to have a fairly good grasp on what is contained in them. Do you know how? Because I actually have people I trust and when many people give detailed descriptions of a book, that is enough for me. I do not need to read every book in order to have a clue about its content, and it makes no difference if the content of those books “also” includes some good elements, as a parent I do not want my kids reading fiction that has so many bad/evil elements.

I have a right to my opinion. I think many people who use porn would say something very similar to what you just wrote: “That I have no right passing judgment, etc.”

Verita----

I should have taking my own advice and not gotten involved with this thread. :doh2:

Tom-
We actually do agree on a lot of stuff . i think Porn is moral and horrible wrong for society. I also don’t like smut in my books or movies. If you go read the 300 thread your see that i had a huge problem with that movie and a couple of the sex scene. The other thing is i couldn’t believe that parents brought their kids to a r-rated movie. There was a reason for the rating. Also i hated the da vinci code. I read it because i heard the movie was coming out and i want to see how close it was going to be to the book. I thought the book was horriblely written and people should have been able to see through the logical lies. But i read it and saw the movie and now have been able to discuss the book and movie in ways with people who actually believe the crud that come out of that movie. I gained some credible with having seen and read it. My opinions weren’t dismissed and we could have a good discussion about it. Would i recommend any child reading the da Vinci code??? NO…That book is not about morals or right vs wrong. It is about throwing smut at the core of Christianity.

Yes some childern are not mature enough to read the book series. Parents should know their childerns reading prefences and approve books before the childern read them. I just don’t think peope should be passing a blanket judgment.

 

[Tom317]

Verita----

I should have taking my own advice and not gotten involved with this thread. :doh2:

Tom-
We actually do agree on a lot of stuff . i think Porn is moral and horrible wrong for society. I also don’t like smut in my books or movies. If you go read the 300 thread your see that i had a huge problem with that movie and a couple of the sex scene. The other thing is i couldn’t believe that parents brought their kids to a r-rated movie. There was a reason for the rating. Also i hated the da vinci code. I read it because i heard the movie was coming out and i want to see how close it was going to be to the book. I thought the book was horriblely written and people should have been able to see through the logical lies. But i read it and saw the movie and now have been able to discuss the book and movie in ways with people who actually believe the crud that come out of that movie. I gained some credible with having seen and read it. My opinions weren’t dismissed and we could have a good discussion about it. Would i recommend any child reading the da Vinci code??? NO…That book is not about morals or right vs wrong. It is about throwing smut at the core of Christianity.

Yes some childern are not mature enough to read the book series. Parents should know their childerns reading prefences and approve books before the childern read them. I just don’t think peope should be passing a blanket judgment.

My opinion is that HP should not be read by kids, and really not by anyone because I feel it just feeds the beast (so to speak). The notion that we are never to judge actions is silly, of course we must judge actions of others, but we must never try to judge their souls…that is God’s job alone.

How can our culture ever get better if people keep paying for garbage that should never make any publishers list? Catholics, even those who call themselves devout, helped to create the huge industry behind “The Da Vinci Code” and behind HP. Catholics complain they want culture to be better and more Christ-centered, yet they engage in the culture 100%. It makes no sense, it shows no unity of life imo.

I agree with your comments about 300, that it is likely way too violent for kids, but that is actually making my point because I would not bring my kids to see that movie, and I have no seen it myself. So, you see, even in the case of the movie 300, there is plenty of information already avaliable for me as a parent, I do not need to pay to see the movie in order to know I do not want my kids to see it.

It is modern view that one MUST read a book in order to have an opinion…that is pure nonsense.

 

[beckers]

My opinion is that HP should not be read by kids, and really not by anyone because I feel it just feeds the beast (so to speak). The notion that we are never to judge actions is silly, of course we must judge actions of others, but we must never try to judge their souls…that is God’s job alone.

How can our culture ever get better if people keep paying for garbage that should never make any publishers list? Catholics, even those who call themselves devout, helped to create the huge industry behind “The Da Vinci Code” and behind HP. Catholics complain they want culture to be better and more Christ-centered, yet they engage in the culture 100%. It makes no sense, it shows no unity of life imo.

I agree with your comments about 300, that it is likely way too violent for kids, but that is actually making my point because I would not bring my kids to see that movie, and I have no seen it myself. So, you see, even in the case of the movie 300, there is plenty of information already avaliable for me as a parent, I do not need to pay to see the movie in order to know I do not want my kids to see it.

It is modern view that one MUST read a book in order to have an opinion…that is pure nonsense.

You see HP as a great evil to the world. I see it differently. i think for the right age group it would be great. No sex or drugs in the book, showing kids that adults trust them and that when they break that trust that they have to live with the consquence of their actions and that even kids have to make a choice between evil and good… PLUS it gets kids reading and away from the computer and TV where even in the afternoon they are subjected to the cultural of death and the rise of the "me me’ society. You right Tom what a horrible book it is for our kids to be reading.

And of course 300 is not for kids it is rated R. HP is rated and geared towards the teens. The first book is written at the grade level that Harry would be. 11 years old. By then i hope kids understand right from wrong. Thats why i said that parents should judge from themselves if their child is ready to read the series. Some 8 year old may be mature enough and at the right reading level while some 13 old boy may not be.

And by what right should you be able to declare what makes a publisher list? Should we burn ever book that you don’t agree with? Are should we do like the church says and read items with caution?

It is not pure nonsense for people to believe that those who are making an objection, are making an objection on facts and not the opinions and commentary of others. If I do not know enough about subject A then i am not going to sit here and tell everyone in the world that subject A is evil and you should stay away from it. I would instead say I have concerns with subject A and proceed to discuss them with people. Now on subjects that i do have knowledge about like porn, abortation, cultural of death, politics, history, the church…etc… then i am going to scream from the roof tops

 

[Tom317]

You see HP as a great evil to the world. I see it differently. i think for the right age group it would be great. No sex or drugs in the book, showing kids that adults trust them and that when they break that trust that they have to live with the consquence of their actions and that even kids have to make a choice between evil and good… PLUS it gets kids reading and away from the computer and TV where even in the afternoon they are subjected to the cultural of death and the rise of the "me me’ society. You right Tom what a horrible book it is for our kids to be reading.

And of course 300 is not for kids it is rated R. HP is rated and geared towards the teens. The first book is written at the grade level that Harry would be. 11 years old. By then i hope kids understand right from wrong. Thats why i said that parents should judge from themselves if their child is ready to read the series. Some 8 year old may be mature enough and at the right reading level while some 13 old boy may not be.

And by what right should you be able to declare what makes a publisher list? Should we burn ever book that you don’t agree with? Are should we do like the church says and read items with caution?

It is not pure nonsense for people to believe that those who are making an objection, are making an objection on facts and not the opinions and commentary of others. If I do not know enough about subject A then i am not going to sit here and tell everyone in the world that subject A is evil and you should stay away from it. I would instead say I have concerns with subject A and proceed to discuss them with people. Now on subjects that i do have knowledge about like porn, abortation, cultural of death, politics, history, the church…etc… then i am going to scream from the roof tops

Let me simplify my view.

Would it hurt my kids (or any person for that matter) if they did not read HP? Answer: No, it is only a piece of fiction.

Would it hurt my kids if they did read HP? Answer: There is a slight spiritual risk; therefore there is no reason to let them read it.

Note: A person does not need to read a book to know enough to make a choice. A person does not need to see a movie to know enough to make a choice. All a person needs is trusted and informed sources to make sound choices, if that is not true, then the Church has no purposen existing because Catholics rely on the Church to properly propogate the faith.

 

[Tom317]

And by what right should you be able to declare what makes a publisher list? Should we burn ever book that you don’t agree with? Are should we do like the church says and read items with caution?

I have the right to my opinion, which you seem very much to want to stifle, which one can certainly wonder why.

Further, I find it a bit amusing that so many HP defenders spend so much time defending the books and movies…it is as if they are getting paid to defend the work. Frankly, when I read a book and enjoy it, I might let others know, but if they choose not to read it, or if they conclude it is not good for their kids, I would not give a whit and I certainly would not try to defend the book I enjoyed. I think it is very telling that so many people who have read the HP books are such ceaseless defenders of the book as if they want to take choice away from others…very interesting phenomenon. A funny thing that human conscience is…

 

[CathCentrist]

I don’t care if you don’t believe Fr. Amorth’s words. I do believe that many saints often exchanged words with demons. Many were even abused by them. These are the holiest people of their times and they had encounters with Satan. They went to Mass often and they still had encounters with Satan. The establishment of the Mass does not gaurantee freedom from Satan.

It sounds like you’re down-playing the devil’s affect upon people. After all, look at the effect he had on Eve. The wise men of the Church do not take the devil’s influence lightly.

Unless and until there is some evidence that Father Amorth is a living saint lke John Marie Vianny or Padre Pio, then I have no reason to believe he is talking DAILY with the devil. Not buying that and not buying that this would amount to basicly performing DAILY exorcisms. Its time to start using some discernment here. The man sounds like hes seeing the devil in every corner

 

[CathCentrist]

I have heard that Harry Potter has gotten kids interested in learning Latin again.

Turnis intuous a frogus!

EZ Latin, Harry Potter style

 

[Tom317]

Unless and until there is some evidence that Father Amorth is a living saint lke John Marie Vianny or Padre Pio, then I have no reason to believe he is talking DAILY with the devil. Not buying that and not buying that this would amount to basicly performing DAILY exorcisms. Its time to start using some discernment here. The man sounds like hes seeing the devil in every corner

So, now it is okay to call a Priests a liar? See anything wrong with this picture?

 

[CathCentrist]

I do not choose to. I am not interested in such. And it really has nothing to do with this subject.

If you are trying to compare a children’s fantasy novel series to pornography then you really don’t understand the issue.

I would think someone who tries to associate HP with porn is guilty of bringing a fundamentalist aspect into the Catholic faith and if anything we dont need to move backwards into the dark ages when stuff like Coffee was even considered an evil

 

[Tom317]

I would think someone who tries to associate HP with porn is guilty of bringing a fundamentalist aspect into the Catholic faith and if anything we dont need to move backwards into the dark ages when stuff like Coffee was even considered an evil

Porn is used by satan to lead souls astray…do you agree?

 

[CathCentrist]

So, now it is okay to call a Priests a liar? See anything wrong with this picture?

Since when is it accepted that just cause one is a priest they are always telling the entire truth and not EMBELLISHING?

I dont believe the man when he goes to the extremes about daily battles with the devil. In THAT particular area I think he isnt being honest. If someone disagreeing with or not fully believing a priest upsets you, then maybe you are too easily scandalized or putting wayy too much faith in every single word one of them utters.

 

[CathCentrist]

Porn is used by satan to lead souls astray…do you agree?

I’ve already read your poor attempts at trying to tie HP and porn together…Not taking the bait nor the silly argument which is dangerously Fundamentalist in theory

 

[Tom317]

Since when is it accepted that just cause one is a priest they are always telling the entire truth and not EMBELLISHING?

I dont believe the man when he goes to the extremes about daily battles with the devil. In THAT particular area I think he isnt being honest. If someone disagreeing with or not fully believing a priest upsets you, then maybe you are too easily scandalized or putting wayy too much faith in every single word one of them utters.

He was the chief exorcist for the Vatican, not your local parish Priest. The man knows this stuff way better then we do, to that I would hope you would agree. I think he deserves the benfit of the doubt, especially since the Vatican sees these matters important enough to appoint a chief exorcist and also because the Vatican never corrected Father Amroth’s statements. We are not free to willy nilly think such people are nut cases as you seem to think.

You seem to be in serious denial of the true nature ot satan and his demons.

 

[Tom317]

I’ve already read your poor attempts at trying to tie HP and porn together…Not taking the bait nor the silly argument which is dangerously Fundamentalist in theory

Call me names if you wish, it just lowers yourself, not me.

Porn is used by satan to lead souls astray.

HP is used by satan to lead souls astray.

In both cases souls are being lead astray, therefore they are the same in my view. I know you do not agree and you want to try to slam me with goofy fundamentalists statements as if your petty remarks me anything to me.

I do wonder why you are defending fiction as you are, me thinks you protest way to much.

 

[beckers]

I have the right to my opinion, which you seem very much to want to stifle, which one can certainly wonder why.

Further, I** find it a bit amusing that so many HP defenders spend so much time defending the books and movies**…it is as if they are getting paid to defend the work. Frankly, when I read a book and enjoy it, I might let others know, but if they choose not to read it, or if they conclude it is not good for their kids, I would not give a whit and I certainly would not try to defend the book I enjoyed. I think it is very telling that so many people who have read the HP books are such ceaseless defenders of the book as if they want to take choice away from others…very interesting phenomenon. A funny thing that human conscience is…

Well you seem to go out of your way to disprove HP.

HP readers aren’t saying that everyone should read the book. Some people just don’t find fanasty and fiction their cup of coffee which is fine. What we are saying is those that are interested should be able to read it with out fear of being attacked by those who who think it’s evil.

 

[beckers]

Call me names if you wish, it just lowers yourself, not me.

Porn is used by satan to lead souls astray.

HP is used by satan to lead souls astray.

In both cases souls are being lead astray, therefore they are the same in my view. I know you do not agree and you want to try to slam me with goofy fundamentalists statements as if your petty remarks me anything to me.

I do wonder why you are defending fiction as you are, me thinks you protest way to much.

I have the answer to everything. TOM you can make a list of all those books that you think lead souls astray. We can even call it the forbidden book list. Then we can all meet in a square and burn all those books that you don’t agree with. Anyone else up for a party?

If you don’t like ficition then don’t read it. i don’t like sci-fi books so i don’t read them. it’s my choice but i don’t go around telling people how evil they are and telling that those books are just as bad as porn

 

[Tom317]

Well you seem to go out of your way to disprove HP.

HP readers aren’t saying that everyone should read the book. Some people just don’t find fanasty and fiction their cup of coffee which is fine. What we are saying is those that are interested should be able to read it with out fear of being attacked by those who who think it’s evil.

Yes, I go out of my way because I think HP is dangerous. People who support the books do not think it is dangerous at all, so why do they care if I and others try to dissuade people? It makes no sense, it is as if those same people have a bit of guilt going.

 

[Tom317]

I have the answer to everything. TOM you can make a list of all those books that you think lead souls astray. We can even call it the forbidden book list. Then we can all meet in a square and burn all those books that you don’t agree with. Anyone else up for a party?

If you don’t like ficition then don’t read it. i don’t like sci-fi books so i don’t read them. it’s my choice but i don’t go around telling people how evil they are and telling that those books are just as bad as porn

LOL

I never told people they were evil…feeling guilty?

As for porn, I remain convinced that porn and HP have the same potential of leading souls astray. It really does not matter to me if you agree or disagree. As I said before, I am really not posting this for your sake, it is for the few people who are still on the fence about HP…

 

[Tom317]

beckers,

Tell me, you read the books and liked them, correct?

You see no harm in them, correct?

You don’t buy into the potential of leading young souls astray, correct?

Tehn why are you here and why are you bothering to debate me about something you already have a high degree if comfort with? It makes no sense, it makes it seem as if you must feel guilty.