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Tom317
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So, there is ZERO possibility that the rates of Wicca membership has grown at the same time HP was being read by young people?
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awindrose
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Oh no… i am sure your statement about the increase was true.
But just because the sidewalk is wet does not mean that it has rained.
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estesbob
Guest
You are asking us to prove a negative. If you have proof that the alleged increas in Wiccan is related to harry Potter books please post it.
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Angela_Tate
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** * * * * *This thread has been interrupted to bring you this important message -
duckworth:
Let’s try to keep the discussion to opinion about teens reading Harry Potter. We’re not talking about 3-12 year olds.
Thank you.
Since this thread has been ongoing for quite some time and has occasionally drifted off topic I’ve opted to repost the OP (minus the bit about HP being banned and the OP’s personal opinion since the OP has long since left this disusion).
Let’s try to keep the discussion to opinion about teens reading Harry Potter. We’re not talking about 3-12 year olds.
Thank you.
- We now return you to the ongoing discussion.
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Tom317
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I posed it as an interesting fact, one that I think should not be ignored. There are authors who have written books claiming a connection between Wicca’s growth and Harry Potter, yet I know of no formal study saying that.
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Tom317
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Sorry, I posted my most receive response at the same time you posted this. I will try to stay on topic.
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estesbob
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If we can do it to Harry Potter:
The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe.
Three Children are abandoned by their parents and sent to a large house in the country. There they disobey their guardians by going places they were forbiddne to go. This results in them ending up in a magical land where animal acts like Humans. While there they defy the legal govt of the country going so far as to incite revolution against the lawful goverment. After overthrowing the govt they pariticipate in regicide. Having deprived the country of its rulers and puting a vicious maneater in charge they go back through the wardobe and lie to their guardins about what they did…
There are many , many problems with this book. First we have the image of parents abandoning their children. a very traumtic thing for a child to read. Then we have the children setting a bad example by disobeying their Guardians and participating in mass mayhem Talking aninmals could lead children to believe that we are no better than animals(contradicitng the Bible) and could cheapen their view on the value of human life. Also their use of magic to unfreeze creatures to help overthrow the queen could lead children to dabble in the occult and of course the whole thing smacks of an “ends justifies the means” philosophy.
There are also many distrubing images that children should not be exposed to. Such things as a creature rising form the dead, a child selling his siblings out for candy and power and a pair if bickering beavers-surely reinforcing the already neagative view of parents presented at the biginning of the book The destructive myth of Santa Claus even makes a cameo appearance.
I would never let my chidren read such a horrid book.
The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe.
Three Children are abandoned by their parents and sent to a large house in the country. There they disobey their guardians by going places they were forbiddne to go. This results in them ending up in a magical land where animal acts like Humans. While there they defy the legal govt of the country going so far as to incite revolution against the lawful goverment. After overthrowing the govt they pariticipate in regicide. Having deprived the country of its rulers and puting a vicious maneater in charge they go back through the wardobe and lie to their guardins about what they did…
There are many , many problems with this book. First we have the image of parents abandoning their children. a very traumtic thing for a child to read. Then we have the children setting a bad example by disobeying their Guardians and participating in mass mayhem Talking aninmals could lead children to believe that we are no better than animals(contradicitng the Bible) and could cheapen their view on the value of human life. Also their use of magic to unfreeze creatures to help overthrow the queen could lead children to dabble in the occult and of course the whole thing smacks of an “ends justifies the means” philosophy.
There are also many distrubing images that children should not be exposed to. Such things as a creature rising form the dead, a child selling his siblings out for candy and power and a pair if bickering beavers-surely reinforcing the already neagative view of parents presented at the biginning of the book The destructive myth of Santa Claus even makes a cameo appearance.
I would never let my chidren read such a horrid book.
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Tom317
Guest
To all,
Thanks for the chat. I am leaving the thread. God Bless.
Thanks for the chat. I am leaving the thread. God Bless.
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LJN21
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Not even remotely helpful or relevant to this discussion.
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estesbob
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Actually I agree. And since it exactly the same way you have critiqued the Harry Potter books your reply made my point far better than I could.
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LJN21
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No, that is how you read what I wrote. I said nothing like that and through out this thread you preset on make up your own version of what I said.
This is a perfect example of how you take what I don’t like with the book completely ignore what I said and make up an imaginary issue arrtibute it to me and then write a rebuttal.
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estesbob
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You are not the only one the post was directed at. We have been told repeatedly the Harry Potter books are bad because he lies, he doesnt respect authority, he believes the ends justifies the means and the books delve in magic.You even suggested that Harry Potter increased the membership of Wicca-well by your standards it would appear that Narnia would also. All I did was show how this type of critique can be used on most popular youth books.
In a bit ill use the Potter opponents rationale to show you how horrid the Wizard of Oz was. just think about it-witches, flying monkeys,human animals. Its a wonder any of us ever made it out of childhood.
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LJN21
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No, please actually read what I said. Narnia has none of the issues in regards to magic that Harry Potter does. Actually in Narnia the only person that regurally uses magic is the Witch. Whats more there are no occult or pseudo occultish references when she use it. The Lion does use magic as well but it is far more reserved. There is no use of magic at all in on the other side of the Wardrobe. If you had read my post you would know already I have no issue with the concept of magic in fiction at all. I do have issue with how it is presented in Harry Potter which is a vast departure form other fantasy children’s fiction and alludes to occult themes. So no, my critique has nothing to so with most popular youth books.
Again none of that has anything to do with the reasons I don’t like the way magic is presented in Harry Potter.
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estesbob
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Oh so are kids are going to have to discern between the “good” way magic is presented in narnia and the “bad” way it is presented in Harry Potter And how do they do that? Do we need a "Magic rating for books like we do for movies?
And no Harry Potter opponent has yet addressed how we can in good conscience expose our Children to all the lying, anarchy, ends justyfying the means etc in Narnia.If we went by the standards set by all those who oppose these books in this thread there would be NO books left for our youth to read.
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takers
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In response to the original question of whether Harry Potter is appropriate for teens, I would say yes. While the books weren’t initially intended for any particular age group, the publishers felt that the first book would be appropriate for 9-11 years old (around the age that Harry was in the first book). source (kidsreads.com/harrypotter/jkrowling.html)
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takers
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The simple answer is that where you hope that one unknown person has avoided the books because of what you’ve written, I hope that one person will read the books because of what I’ve written.
I don’t love to argue, think you’re nuts, or believe that it hurts my life to see in print the viewpoint that Harry Potter is bad. It’s just that I don’t agree with your viewpoint and want the opposing one out there. If there is someone out there who hasn’t taken a stance on Harry Potter (and by this time I would actually be surprised at that) then I believe they should be hearing both sides of the ‘arguement’ before making a decision. If they decide that Harry Potter is morally neutral and okay to read, great. If they decide that Harry Potter has occult tendencies and can be harmful to children, great. It really doesn’t affect me personally. I just think that every good debate (and I think this is a great one) should have both sides presented. So while I won’t try to make you feel stupid or a abad parent or not reading Harry Potter I will try to present my opinion that it’s not stupid or being a bad parent to read Harry Potter.
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LJN21
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Look you don’t have a problem with it, and don’t think it could harm your kids fine.
I feel these books don’t have any thing postive influance and might hurt. I have had personal experiences with close family raised as good Catholics getting involved in all sorts of bad stuff. I feel that these books could are an unnecessary possible source of interest in things of the occult.
You don’t’ agree that’s fine. Stop trying to belittle my feeling in regards to how I raise my kids.
You care to cite and example of lying, anarchy or ends justifying the means used by the heroes that has a positive out come?
Granted its been a couple years since I’ve actually read that serious of books but as far as I remember it doesn’t happen.
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estesbob
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I laid it all out in my Narnia post. Everything they do leads to Naranians being free -but oh the “means” I dont see a problem with either of the books but am merely poinitng out that what is good for the goose{Harry Potter) should also be good for the gander(Narnia)
I never questioned how you raised your kids.
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LJN21
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No you didn’t, none of the reasons you sited about how Narnia is bad is even remotely relevent to the reasons I cited I didn’t like Harry Potter.
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Ahimsa
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Harry Potter: initials are H.P., as in “Hewlett-Packard”. The whole book series is one big advertisement to get you to buy computers. Check out how much H.P. stock has arise since the first volume came out!
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