Has anyone read the Qu 'ran? (A question for Muslims as well)

[elwill]

Hello,

I just don’t get it and would like to know the thoughts of someone who has read it the whole way through. Maybe I’m being too critical? I saw nothing inspirational in it. When I flick through the Gospels, Acts, epistles etc… I can guarantee that whatever I read, I will read something inspiring and enlightening. I just don’t get why people would believe the Qu 'ran is divinely inspired… At least it’s given me hope for the conversion of my Muslim boyfriend who will read the Bible at Christmas.

Please could you try your best to be as non-biased as you can in your posts.

Thanks in advance.

unlike the Bible and the Torah, the quran was revealed gradually during a long period of twenty-three years of the Prophet’s life, a tumultuous time in the history of Islam. It is on this account that every verse of the Qur’an is related to certain specific historical incident called sha’n-i nuzul The sha’n-i nuzul, by itself does not restrict the meaning of the verses, but the knowledge of the particulars of revelation throws more light on the subject of the verses in an effective way.

we should try to understand the Qur’an with the help of the Qur’an itself; because, the verses of the Qur’an constitute a completely united integral whole, a coherent unified structure. If we single out any verse from the Qur’an and try to understand it in isolation from the rest of the Book, it would not be a correct method. However, it is possible that we may happen to understand it, but the method is not recommended by caution, as certain verses of the Qur’an are explanatory for certain other verses.
(that’s exactly what you did , i guess )

as for your comparison to the bible and quran
i can say that the bible was authered by the followers after the death of prophets to records the teaching and the historical events of them ( it’s not direct revelation from God to his prophets )
you can compare it with the records of historical events and teaching of mohammed (pbuh) which was authered about him after his death
hence you will read easily something inspiring and enlightening without needing of deep effort and analysis and background knowledge as quran required

 

[4Horsemen]

The Koran has confusing elements, including the nature of God. Christians understand God as the Blessed Trinity, while Muslims have a different idea of how Christians understand the Trinity. Some Muslims call the angel Gabriel the Holy Spirit. Or they consider Mary as part of the Trinity and say it is blasphemous, since they see the association in physical terms.

Anyway, that’s what I recall reading in a book called Inside Islam–A Guide for Caholics.

 

[dzheremi]

Actually if you want to fully understand and sense the rhythm of Quran then you have to read it in Arabic because once Quran get translated into other languages it losses its beautiful Arabic poem.

Moreover, as an Arabic speaker I’ve found that the rhythm in the Arabic translation of the Bible overcomes the rhythm in the Arabic version of Quran, so make sure if your boyfriend is an Arabic speaker that you give him an Arabic Bible to read, else the English version will easily overcome the English version of Quran.

Indeed! And in the styles of recitation of the Holy Bible, there is also no greater beauty, and most importantly no greater truth. For you, my friend, here is a small sample some beautiful Arabic recitations of the Holy Bible.

In the Byzantine tradition: Acts 1:1-18

Psalm 117

In the Coptic tradition: Isaiah 3

Matthew 27:27-45 - With a little Coptic language at the beginning! There are a lot of Coptic-language hymns to listen to, too…very beautiful and unique. Try this one: Tentheeno - one of the praises sung at Midnight (in observance of the liturgical hours/the Coptic “Agpeya”). This is the descendant of the ancient Egyptian language, before the Arabs and Islam. Copts spoke it even for centuries after the Arabs came, and now it is still the liturgical language of the Coptic Orthodox Church (just like how Latin is the liturgical language of the Roman Catholic Church, even though no Roman Catholic speaks it as their first language).

 

[Sam_777]

Thanks dzheremi for the links , the beauty of the Bible in its teaching, for example, every word Jesus said I find a connotation for it in all my life aspects.

 

[JeanMichel]

Hello,

I just had a quick flip of the Qu 'ran and read a bit from about six different pages, all over the book, middle, beginning end…

I thought that people who quote the Qu 'ran are just biased, but every single thing I read had something like ‘the unbelievers’ ‘the believers’ ‘Allah has cursed the unbelievers’ etc… That just seems to be the theme.

I just don’t get it and would like to know the thoughts of someone who has read it the whole way through. Maybe I’m being too critical? I saw nothing inspirational in it. When I flick through the Gospels, Acts, epistles etc… I can guarantee that whatever I read, I will read something inspiring and enlightening. I just don’t get why people would believe the Qu 'ran is divinely inspired… At least it’s given me hope for the conversion of my Muslim boyfriend who will read the Bible at Christmas.

Please could you try your best to be as non-biased as you can in your posts.

Thanks in advance.

I have read the Qur’an and have enjoyed it. What I got out of it is an extreme reverence for God. I continue to enjoy it occasionally, but I remain committed to the Bible. There certainly are other Sacred texts that I have found more difficult to appreciate; however, it has not stopped me from owning most of them. If I can get any truth out of them I feel it is worthwhile.

When there are over a billion followers it is a little difficult to think something is worthless.

 

[Sam_777]

When there are over a billion followers it is a little difficult to think something is worthless.

It’s good as an earthy law (much better than most secular laws) but NOT as heavenly one as the Bible…

 

[patrick457]

Well, I haven’t really gotten far in the Qu’ran save for Al-Fatihah, and a bit of a skip to other parts.
And yes, the contents of the Qu’ran is a bit of a surprise if you are exposed only to the Bible and its different literary genres. IMHO in some ways the Qu’ran is more like a series of non-linear, disjointed discourses/sayings than narratives or poems.

Then again, its being purely a set of discourses is not too strange a territory if you are also used to, say, the Rigveda (a collection of hymns) or Buddhist sutras (many of which are basically longwinded discourses) or even some New Testament apocrypha, especially the Gnostic ones (which also sometimes take the form of longwinded discourses).

 

[The_Wizard]

When there are over a billion followers it is a little difficult to think something is worthless.

If numbers were the only thing to on which to base the worth of something than the creed of NAZI Germany has some worth.

 

[Apollos]

If numbers were the only thing to on which to base the worth of something than the creed of NAZI Germany has some worth.

Godwin’s Law.

 

[Sister_Amy]

Some interesting observations have been made in this thread. As a Muslim, and someone who reads and studies the Qur’an, I’d like to comment on some of these.

(1) Regarding the “theme” of the Qur’an, a poster mentioned distress at constant mention of “unbelievers.” One can find almost anything in the Qur’an, if he’s looking hard enough. And if someone has “unbelievers” on his mind, then it’s likely those passages will stand out more. But the Qur’an actually has three major themes–the most obvious and most important of these is (1) discussion about Allah. The Qur’an frequently reminds the reader/listener about the attributes of Allah–that He is Loving, All-Knowing, Wise, etc. And this often comes after a passage which might emphasize our relationship to Him, vis a vis those attributes mentioned at the end. In fact, it’s very subtle, and a lot of people miss it. The second major theme is (2) stories of prophethood (and other parables). Some 25 prophets and messengers are mentioned by name in the Qur’an, to tell their story or allude to it, bringing its significance to mind in order to highlight a particular point. And the third major theme is (3) discussion of the Hereafter.

(2) Someone mentioned that the Qur’an is a collection of discourses–and this is a good way to describe the Qur’an. If someone is reading a novel, it’s natural to expect some sort of sequence to the events, a narrative to follow. If one is reading a textbook, the expectation is for some sort of topical organization. But the sequence and order of the Qur’an has been governed by the divine and is more subtle than these. So it’s better to look at it as a collection of essays. Each surah or chapter will address some issues, and it will have a beginning, a middle, and an end. Various stories are referenced not for the purpose of telling the story outright, but used as supporting evidence for a greater claim.

So the better way to look at the Qur’an is that each Surah is an individual essay–connected to but also independent from those around it. And each surah advances a particular claim or discusses a particular subject, and brings evidence and rhetorical devices to substantiate that claim, or elaborate on the subject.

So you have to pay attention. It’s not like reading a story where you can breeze through it and skip bits that fill themselves in–everything has a meaning and purpose, including repetition.

That’s also why it’s important to read long, long passages–entire chapters, instead of just skipping around. If you skip around, you might miss what the point of the passage is and accidentally misconstrue it entirely.

And as for myself, I find it incredibly inspirational. One thing frequently mentioned, for instance, is being patient. That Allah is with those who are patiently persevering. That with difficulty comes ease. That Allah does not intend difficulty for us. That there is a tremendous reward for being patient in times of difficulty.

It’s good to read the whole thing through, even starting at the beginning (the first few chapters talk a lot about believers–Muslims and various types of non-Muslims.)

 

[4Horsemen]

Looking over my copy of the Koran (Qur’an, does the spelling matter?), it seems that the longest chapters are the earliest ones and the shortest the last ones. Since it is an Arabic book, other translations are not reliable or the true revelation from Allah. At least, that’s my understanding. “We have revealed the Koran in the Arabic tongue so that you may grow in understanding.” (Sura 12:1). Admitedly, I’ve only read bits and pieces, but I have a question concerning Allah’s use of the pro-noun “we” when Muslims believe in one God. In the Bible, God uses the pro-noun “I”, such as “I am who am” when He reveals Himself in the burning bush to Moses. Yet, Christians believe in the three Persons in One God–Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Maybe, someone could respond to that.

 

[Sister_Amy]

Looking over my copy of the Koran (Qur’an, does the spelling matter?), it seems that the longest chapters are the earliest ones and the shortest the last ones. Since it is an Arabic book, other translations are not reliable or the true revelation from Allah. At least, that’s my understanding. “We have revealed the Koran in the Arabic tongue so that you may grow in understanding.” (Sura 12:1). Admitedly, I’ve only read bits and pieces, but I have a question concerning Allah’s use of the pro-noun “we” when Muslims believe in one God. In the Bible, God uses the pro-noun “I”, such as “I am who am” when He reveals Himself in the burning bush to Moses. Yet, Christians believe in the three Persons in One God–Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Maybe, someone could respond to that.

Spelling kind of matters. The Arabic alphabet contains several letters which don’t exist in English, like the ق, which is the first letter of the word Qur’an–قرآن. In English, the letters K (a ك in Arabic) and Q are pretty much the same, but the Q seldom appears by itself (usually it’s with a “u” to make a sound equivalent to a KW) so when transliterating from Arabic to English, the Q is used to represent the ق. Old style transliteration used to use a K but more modern ones use a Q, and that’s what I prefer, since it’s less likely to be confused with the actual K sound.

And a note about translations–the actual revelation was verbatim, word for word, letter by letter, in Arabic. And that can’t be changed. However, for someone who can’t understand Arabic at all, a translation will have to suffice. Translations try their best to capture the essence of the meaning, but understand that much of the beauty and eloquence is lost, and some of the meaning, but much of the meaning is conveyed. So it is worthwhile to read a translation. And I hear the MAS Abdul Halem one is pretty good though I haven’t read it myself yet.

And about the use of the pronoun “We.” In Arabic, نحن. This is a facet of many languages (including English, though it’s kind of antiquated), to use a plural pronoun to connote majesty. It’s called the “Royal We.” Arabic does this, so sometimes you find Allah refers to himself as نحن “We” and sometimes as أنا “I.” Similarly, sometimes He uses the pronouns for “My” and also “Our.” (i.e., singular and plural possessive.) But Allah also refers to Himself in the 3rd person, with the pronoun هو–default, “He.” But never does Allah use the plural 3rd person, only the singular. In other words, you never see the pronouns “they,” “them,” or “their” referring to Allah. So there’s not actually any plural reference to Allah, but sometimes you find the royal/majestic first-person plural “We” being used, though for majesty and not plurality.

 

[dzheremi]

Native Arabic speakers on this very board have told me that there is no such thing as the “royal we” in Arabic…

Searching on Google for evidence of the “royal we” in Arabic only brings up Islamic apologetics and one line from a Wikipedia article saying that there are many places in the Qur’an where Allah is referred to as “we”. Nothing about the linguistic convention actually being present in the language outside of its usage in the Qur’an. That seems a little odd to me. I stopped after three pages, so maybe it’s in there somewhere…

 

[OrdinaryMelkite]

The Quran, for me, is a very confusing book to read. It doesn’t seem to flow (in the way the Bible does at least) and is actually arranged backwards. The shorter chapters at the end were actually the first of the writings completed by Muhammed, and the longer ones in the beginning were his later writings.

I don’t know how unbiased I can be, but personally I don’t think it was divinely inspired. I mean, there are some beautiful sections of the Quran. It’s very interesting how it echoes the stories of Noah, Mary, and even Jesus. There are many examples of this, but they all seem a bit fragmented and sometimes distorted in comparison to the flushed-out narratives in the Bible and Tanakh (the Jewish scriptures). Also, it’s alternating calls for both peace and war are hard for me to reconcile. Then again, I’m sure there are parts of the Bible that are hard for people to understand if they are not familiar with it.

So, to me it kind of reads like a book of poetry for an interesting culture…and I think it should be respected for its importance to that culture. Personally, I find it confusing somewhat fragmented.

Walid Shoebat, former Muslim Terrorist turned Christian Defender, says that the Koran is structured like someone put the Bible through a shedder and then reassembled from what was left.

I actually agree with that.

Truly. Does not make sense.

From what I’ve read of the Quran, everything IS Out of Order, Chronologically and Otherwise.

But then, the Wicked One DOES love to confuse people…

 

[OrdinaryMelkite]

I have read the Qur’an and have enjoyed it. What I got out of it is an extreme reverence for God. I continue to enjoy it occasionally, but I remain committed to the Bible. There certainly are other Sacred texts that I have found more difficult to appreciate; however, it has not stopped me from owning most of them. If I can get any truth out of them I feel it is worthwhile.

When there are over a billion followers it is a little difficult to think something is worthless.

Did you enjoy the verses encouraging Muslims to Kill Non-Believers?

Do you know that the “peaceful” verses in the Quran are considered “abrograted” (cancelled) by most Muslim Scholars and that the “newer” verses (the violent ones) are the one that are considered valid now?

That’s because the “peaceful” verses are from Muhammad’s Mecca Period, when he had few followers and was trying to peacefully convert people. All of that changed when he moved to Medina and became a Military, Spiritual and Political Leader, and decieed to spread his message “by the Sword.”

 

[Thyme]

Thank you. These are really interesting replies because a lot of threads I’ve read about the Qu 'ran are all negative and it’s nice to read other perspectives.

I will probably read it one day after reading the other books on my list. So, is it best to read it in the order that it happened?

Regarding my boyfriend reading the Bible in Arabic, I think that’s a really good idea. I don’t know how well he can read Arabic though.

 

[JeanMichel]

Did you enjoy the verses encouraging Muslims to Kill Non-Believers?

Do you know that the “peaceful” verses in the Quran are considered “abrograted” (cancelled) by most Muslim Scholars and that the “newer” verses (the violent ones) are the one that are considered valid now?

That’s because the “peaceful” verses are from Muhammad’s Mecca Period, when he had few followers and was trying to peacefully convert people. All of that changed when he moved to Medina and became a Military, Spiritual and Political Leader, and decieed to spread his message “by the Sword.”

Please don’t be absurd. Do you enjoy when a prophet of God curses 42 children because they made fun of him being bald and two bears ate them. Does that sound like a prophet of God?

Did you know that “most” Muslims believe in peace first and foremost? Did you know that Muslims treat non-Muslims with respect and care? I live in a Muslim country, please do not try and make me believe something different than what I experience on a daily basis.

This is very difficult. How many times must it be pointed it out that when we point your finger in accusation at another there are three fingers pointing back at us? No religion is perfect, and no church history is perfect. I live with Muslims. They are incredibly kind, generous, loving, and friendly. Understand that I am not saying your are wrong, but I am saying that you picture is incomplete and lacks balance.

 

[The_Wizard]

If you are interested in the political aspects of the Qu’ran as well as the religious you might want to check Robert Spencer’s website Jihad Watch.

 

[dzheremi]

Please don’t be absurd.

Follow your own advice. Very poor argumentation here. In Qur’an are there COMMANDS from Islam’s god for unending violence against those who disbelieve. In the Bible there are STORIES that can be very violent, but no such commands for eternal war against unbelievers. These are not comparable at all.

I live with Muslims. They are incredibly kind, generous, loving, and friendly. Understand that I am not saying your are wrong, but I am saying that your picture is incomplete and lacks balance.

The bold is also true of your picture. Obviously most people know at least one Muslim, and chances are their Muslim friend(s) are not terrorism-loving maniacs. That’s how they get to be friends. No one but other extremist nutcases want to be friends with an extremist nutcase So that’s really not much of an argument. Unfortunately for all of us, the trouble with Islam is not your or my or anyone’s peaceful Muslim friends. The trouble is in all the FOUNDATIONAL DOCUMENTS (the Qur’an, the Hadith, the Sira) of Islam that preach anything but peace towards those who actively oppose Islam and its rule over the world. If you look at those documents and the rulings and statutes structured around them, you will find that they are anything but “kind, generous, loving, and friendly”.

Pull your head out of the sand. **Islam itself is the problem. ** You live in UAE, one of the least Islamic countries of the Middle East (only 76% Muslim, and with a stated policy of non-interference in the practice non-Islamic religions so long as they do not proselytize). Outside of relatively liberal countries like UAE or a few others, you won’t find such a rosy picture for the non-believer in the lands dominated by Islam.

 

[OrdinaryMelkite]

Follow your own advice. Very poor argumentation here. In Qur’an are there COMMANDS from Islam’s god for unending violence against those who disbelieve. In the Bible there are STORIES that can be very violent, but no such commands for eternal war against unbelievers. These are not comparable at all.

The bold is also true of your picture. Obviously most people know at least one Muslim, and chances are their Muslim friend(s) are not terrorism-loving maniacs. That’s how they get to be friends. No one but other extremist nutcases want to be friends with an extremist nutcase So that’s really not much of an argument. Unfortunately for all of us, the trouble with Islam is not your or my or anyone’s peaceful Muslim friends. The trouble is in all the FOUNDATIONAL DOCUMENTS (the Qur’an, the Hadith, the Sira) of Islam that preach anything but peace towards those who actively oppose Islam and its rule over the world. If you look at those documents and the rulings and statutes structured around them, you will find that they are anything but “kind, generous, loving, and friendly”.

Pull your head out of the sand. **Islam itself is the problem. ** You live in UAE, one of the least Islamic countries of the Middle East (only 76% Muslim, and with a stated policy of non-interference in the practice non-Islamic religions so long as they do not proselytize). Outside of relatively liberal countries like UAE or a few others, you won’t find such a rosy picture for the non-believer in the lands dominated by Islam.

:clapping:

Father Zacharias Boutros, the Coptic Priest whose Weekly Telecasts convert Muslims to Christianity on a weekly basis, once said in an Interview with Canadian TV personality Michael Ceran when asked about the “peaceful Muslims” angle that all TRUE, devout Muslims only “appear to be nice to you.” Those that are truly Peaceful and Anti-Terrorism are either NOT Truly Muslim or simply Do Not Truly Know about Islam.

He pointed out that the principle of Taquiya (hiding and lying one’s about one’s true beliefs) applies to folks who are the minority religion in a given country. Muslims are the minority religion in the West, so they lie about Islam being a Religion Of Peace.

According to Boutros, when they become the Majority Religion in a Country, THEN you will see the True Nature Of Muslims. Ceran strongly disagreed with that, but Boutros stood his ground. He reminded Ceran that Coptics in Egypt have had to deal with Muslims for 14 centuries, so they know “what Muslims are all about.”

When the Mahdi (Muslim Messiah) comes back, they are COMMANDED by the Hadiths and Islamic tradition to assist the Mahdi in killing any Non-Muslims who refuse to convert to Islam. Particularly Christians and Jews.

In fact, Muslims have a chant they utter sometimes in certain “situations”-----“First Saturday, then Sunday.”
Meaning------Jews hold their services on Saturday, Christians on Sunday-----ultimately-----
“First we’ll kill the Jews, then the Christians.”