Has anyone read this anti- catholic book?

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ASimpleSinner said:
Almost 20 years ago - 1988 to be exact - Karl Keating, the man behind Catholic Answers, wrote Catholicism and Fundamentalism: The Attack on “Romanism” by "Bible Christians" (Ignatius Press)

To date, no more lucid treatment of Chick by a Catholic apologist has been offered.

One could go through each tract, line by line, to refute it… but to my way of thinking, if you want to understand the source of these tracts this is a great place to start.
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A friend of mine loaned me his copy of that book. It was interesting, but portrayed Protestants as being more consumed with hate for Catholicism than they really are.

Just my view.
 
Chris_LaRock said:
Those are much better rebuttals than just saying it’s anti-catholic hate speech.
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I don’t know who is doing that - though that is certainly true 🙂​

That thing in my profile is taken from:
Annals of the Kings of Assyria (1902)

It’s on page 243, & is the writing for the name of the god in the quotation below; it is in the middle of line 6.

The reason for its importance is, that TTB refers to it on page 72/3 - & elsewhere. Here’s (part of) the relevant passage:

As the true Messiah was prophesied of under the title of the “Man whose name was the branch,” he was celebrated not only as the “Branch of Cush,” but as the “Branch of God,” graciously given to the earth for healing all the ills that flesh is heir to. * He was worshipped in Babylon under the name of El-Bar, or “God the Son.” Under this very name he is introduced by Berosus, the Chaldean historian, as the second in the list of Babylonian sovereigns. **

http://philologos.org/__eb-ttb/sect225.htm

In the printed edition - I have the Loizeaux Brothers one - there is a reference to “El-Bar”; the book which TTB relies on for “El-Bar” prints a list of 13 gods; and that list is the same one as in the 1902 book. (There are more recent editions of the same inscription, but they don’t affect the reading of the text.

The text TTB relies on is from Assyria, & is a part of an inscription of a king who reigned from 883 to 858BC, named Asshur-nasir-pal II. (This was about 270 years before the fall of Assyria in 609). This period is known as the New Assyrian age - TTB puts Nimrod & Semiramis in 2181 BC, 1300 years earlier. It is risky to use a late text as evidence of religion 1300 years before. In the 1850s, texts from quite late were the first to be discovered - so TTB can’t be blamed.

Which is where the Jack Chick tract comes in… 😃

…cont’d…]
 
…cont’d…]

“El-Bar” is relevant because he is mentioned later on, at several points - for instance:
  • But Ceres, be it observed, was worshipped not simply as the discoverer of corn; she was worshipped as “the MOTHER of Corn.” The child she brought forth was He-Siri, “the Seed,” or, as he was most frequently called in Assyria, “Bar,” which signifies at once “the Son” and “the Corn.”
    That is one reason why the Mass is said to come from Babylonia-Assyria. (TTB was under the impression, through no fault of the author’s, that they were under the same ruler; this is true only of a century or so before the destruction of Assyria, & for a decade or two in the 1200s.)
“Bar” is not the correct reading of the divine name quoted above. It should be read as “Mash” - not as “Bar”. What TTB was misled into calling “Chaldee”, is in this case Sumerian, which is a completely unrelated language. As the reading is wrong, the meaning is wrong. There are many words for son, & corn, in Sumerian - “Mash” is not one of them. When TTB was written, Sumerian was unknown - hence the mistake. None of this is reflected in the tracts based on TTB 😦

More could be said about “El-Bar”, but that’s enough now - probably too much

These may be of interest:

Electronic Text Corpus of Sumerian Literature:
TTB’s ideas about “Chaldee” are here, in preface two: cbcg.org/twobaby/preface.html
 
Wow… When are you going to write a book GOG?

I think you should!🙂
 
Hellisreal said:
Wow… When are you going to write a book GOG?

I think you should!🙂
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LOL 😃 - & TY. I think someone should. Unfortunately, the real experts - the people who edit texts, write for academic journals, or translate the texts - have far better things to do than spend (waste ?) valuable time on TTB or the sites & books which are based on it. It’s not easy to imagine a professor or post-grad student doing that. And it has been* extremely* influential :eek: - on JWs, Bahais, Messianic Jews, Calvinists; all sorts. There are even translations into French, German, & Russian :eek: :eek: There is even an ex-Orthodox site which relies on it. :eek: :eek: :eek: ; we Catholics are the main target, but others have to cope with this stuff too​

 
Gottle_of_Geer said:

LOL 😃 - & TY. I think someone should. Unfortunately, the real experts - the people who edit texts, write for academic journals, or translate the texts - have far better things to do than spend (waste ?) valuable time on TTB or the sites & books which are based on it. It’s not easy to imagine a professor or post-grad student doing that. And it has been* extremely* influential :eek: - on JWs, Bahais, Messianic Jews, Calvinists; all sorts. There are even translations into French, German, & Russian :eek: :eek: There is even an ex-Orthodox site which relies on it. :eek: :eek: :eek: ; we Catholics are the main target, but others have to cope with this stuff too​

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So, again- what is your excuse?

I have an interesting blog quip I must find for you that clearly gives you NO excuse to ignore the need…(I will PM you tomorrow- very funny IMHO)

Good night brother!🙂
 
Hellisreal said:
So, again- what is your excuse?

I have an interesting blog quip I must find for you that clearly gives you NO excuse to ignore the need…(I will PM you tomorrow- very funny IMHO)

Good night brother!🙂
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Excuse for…? 🙂​

 
Chris_LaRock said:
A friend of mine loaned me his copy of that book. It was interesting, but portrayed Protestants as being more consumed with hate for Catholicism than they really are.

Just my view.
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It has been probably a decade since I read the book the last time.

As I recall - and this is in keeping with Mr. Keatings general tone and style - he seemed to be very clear that he was addressing the the writings and styles of some of the most virulently fundamentalist/anti-Catholic sects.

When I read it, I was left with the clear impression he was mostly concearned with the “Flavors” of Protestantism that were passing out Jack Chick tracts…
 
I’ve looked at the stuff on-line, but more importantly I have this drivel shoved into my face daily at another forum which is very anti-Catholic. Everything they say is straight out of a chick tract. Just for giggles if nothing else, look at what Jimmy Akin wrote about an encounter he personally had with jack chick.😉
 
I wouldn’t dignify a Jack Chick pamphlet by calling is a “book”.
 
I’m ashamed to admit that someone in highschool gave me a Chick tract and that was the catalyst for me starting to doubt my Catholicity. It went terribly downhill for the next 10 years after that. I had trouble understanding it and when I went to a knowledgable resource (I thought they were knowledgable because they taught CCD for 15 years, was an EME and Lector) couldn’t explain to me what was wrong in the tracts. I know just reading through them, if you’re even slightly knowledgable of the Truth in the Church, you can see some of the more major errors of these tracts. But this person couldn’t even tell me. And at that time in my life, I honestly didn’t know anyone that was supposed to be more knowledgable. I figured “Well, if this person doesn’t know, then no one will.” And I started to believe those tracts. By the grace of God I found Catholic Answers about six years ago and I started reading some of Karl Keatings works, then I got on line and found the rebuttal of the Chick tracts.

I’ve since learned that it’s up to me to learn about my faith, even when I feel alone in finding the truth. I always had my doubts about those tracts because it just didn’t ring just right, kwim? Even just the caricatures they have of persons in the Church were really off, like you can see the hate eminating just from the drawings, let along the words. But I really wish someone had shown me back then about the hatred and untruth it was spewing.

Lesson learned and I’m making sure I can refute these tracts if my children ever come across them.
 
St_Violet said:
chick.com/reading/tracts/0071/0071_01.asp

I was just curious if anyone has ever read that book, and their exat opinions and thoughts about it.
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After you stop laughing
Read this guy He is way better

“Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God” was one of the most famous sermons preached by Jonathan Edwards,

chartercat.org/~cmoore/Colonial%20Literature.html
Many of Jonathan Edwards’s statements make people cry out “What shall I do to be saved”(Edwards). It is the perfect sermon to tell people to pray more and be “born again” (Edwards). It gives Jonathan Edwards control over the Puritans thoughts and action. He holds the answer tohow to get into Heaven, and the Puritans will do anything to find out that answer. Scaringpeople is always a good way of getting control over them. Religion is used to scare people in Colonial literature. It scared people into keeping their opinions to themselves. Religion isused as an ingenious cover up for control.
 
:confused:

Lost me again dosdog. What’s the connection to the thread?
 
SyCarl said:
I am a Protestant and I wouldn’t read anything from Chick Publications. They are nothing but garbage.
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Thank you for that honesty. But I personally think, it is not just bad writing, but bad will from Chick publications.
 
Hellisreal said:
👍

Thanks. I am not really awake or something today!😊
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No prob
The result of Edwards’s 1734-35 sermons was a religious revival in which a great number of conversions were made; he received 300 new members into his church. Some of the converted were so obsessed by his fiery descriptions of eternal damnation that they contemplated suicide.
island-of-freedom.com/EDWARDS.HTM
 
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