Has the Church redirected the Pope's speech to be an attack on America not Islam?

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Steven_Merten said:
(paragraph 7) "Vatican spokesman Father Federico Lombardi said that while the papal speech contained a “clear and radical rejection of the religious motivation for violence,” **it was not meant to be a critical assessment of Islam. **
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This is true. If it were meant to be a critical assessment of Islam, the Pope would have gone point by point expounding upon the errors of Islam.
 
Eden said:
Why are you saying this? Are you knowingly bearing false witness?

Pope Benedict XVI said Monday “stronger international resolve” is needed to halt the bloodshed in Darfur.

“The horror of events unfolding in Darfur, to which my beloved predecessor Pope John Paul II referred on many occasions, points to the need for a stronger international resolve to ensure security and basic human rights,” Benedict XVI said.

Here is the Pope’s speech before a Sudanese delegation:

sudantribune.com/article_impr.php3?id_article=12792

The following is the text of the speech of the Pope before the Sudanese delegation

http://www.sudantribune.com/squelettes/puce.gif Your Eminence
http://www.sudantribune.com/squelettes/puce.gif Brother Bishops,
http://www.sudantribune.com/squelettes/puce.gif Distinguished Visitors,

It gives me great satisfaction to welcome you to the Vatican and through you to send heartfelt greetings to the people of your country. I very much appreciate the sentiments which have prompted your visit, and I wish to reassure you of my prayers and deep concern for the peaceful development of civil and ecclesial life in your nation.

The cessation of the civil war and the enactment of a new Constitution have brought hope to the long suffering people of Sudan. While there have been setbacks along the path of reconciliation, not least the tragic death of John Garang, there now exists an unprecedented opportunity and indeed duty for the Church to contribute significantly to the process of forgiveness and national reconstruction. Though a minority, Catholics have much to offer through inter-religious dialogue as well as the provision of greatly needed social services. I encourage you therefore to take the necessary initiatives to realize Christ’s healing presence in these ways.

The horror of events unfolding in Darfur, to which my beloved predecessor Pope John Paul II referred on many occasions, points to the need for a stronger international resolve to ensure security and basic human rights. Today, I add my voice to the cry of the suffering and assure you that the Holy See, together with the Apostolic Nuncio in Khartoum, will continue to do everything possible to end the cycle of violence and misery.

Dear friends, upon you and your people I invoke God’s blessings of wisdom, fortitude and peace!
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Hello Eden,

I see the Pope condemning the evil secular West for not having “stronger international resolve”. I do not see where the Pope is condemning the evil Muslim leaders of Sudan for genociding 400,000+ people.

I do not see the Pope condemning the evils of Muslim terrorist bombings of civilians, Muslim leaders not speaking out on Muslim violence, Muslim leaders teaching children to hate and want to kill infidels with the same strong condemnation he attacks America and Israel with. Church outrage over hundreds dead in Lebonon but silent to 400,000+ dead in Sudan?

Do you have any links where Pope Benedict XVI condemns the evils of the religious East with the same intensity that He condemns the secular West? One might have thought that his recent speech was at least an attempt to confront the evils of the Muslim world with the same intensity that he uses to condemn America. However, now the Vatican, in this article, seem to want to back track and redirect his speech as, yet again, a condemnation and attack on America.

I feel that Pope Benedict XVI is incredibly biased and discriminatory against America in his condemnations. While gross evils exist in the Muslim world, the Pope intentionally chooses to strongly and constantly attack America while intentionally shying away from the evils of the religious East.

Where does the Pope condemn and attack Muslim Sudanies leaders for genociding 400,000 people, and other Muslim attrocities, with the same constant intense, condemnation that he uses to attack America in Iraq and Israel in Lebonon?
 
KathleenElsie said:
References to the problem. No references to a known and deliberate redirection to the West.
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Are you asking if the Pope, or Vatican media directors, came right out and said that they were redirecting the Pope’s speech as an attack on America rather than the Muslim world’s connection with violence?

Did Cardinal Bernard Law come right out and say that he was trying to cover up clergy sex abuse against children in Boston?

For (possibly) fair reasons, or bad reasons (Cardinal Bernard Law), Church leaders do not always come right out and tell us exactly what they are up to. If the Vatican is trying to switch the emphasis of the Pope’s speech from violence in the Muslim religion to now an emphasis to attack the evil secular West, in order to avoid Catholic casualties from Muslim violence, I do not think he, or Vatican Media directors, are going to come right out and say that this is what they are up to.

Link: BenedictXVI: ‘I am deeply sorry’VATICAN CITY
By John Thavis(paragrah 10) "Cardinal Paul Poupard,… …careful reading would show that the pope had offered to Islam “an outstretched hand” in the battle against a secular global culture."(paragraph 8) the pope’s talk focused primarily on the religious shortcomings of the West."
 
Steven_Merten said:
Hello Eden,

I see the Pope condemning the evil secular West for not having “stronger international resolve”. I do not see where the Pope is condemning the evil Muslim leaders of Sudan for genociding 400,000+ people.

I do not see the Pope condemning the evils of Muslim terrorist bombings of civilians, Muslim leaders not speaking out on Muslim violence, Muslim leaders teaching children to hate and want to kill infidels with the same strong condemnation he attacks America and Israel with. Church outrage over hundreds dead in Lebonon but silent to 400,000+ dead in Sudan?

Do you have any links where Pope Benedict XVI condemns the evils of the religious East with the same intensity that He condemns the secular West? One might have thought that his recent speech was at least an attempt to confront the evils of the Muslim world with the same intensity that he uses to condemn America. However, now the Vatican, in this article, seem to want to back track and redirect his speech as, yet again, a condemnation and attack on America.

I feel that Pope Benedict XVI is incredibly biased and discriminatory against America in his condemnations. While gross evils exist in the Muslim world, the Pope intentionally chooses to strongly and constantly attack America while intentionally shying away from the evils of the religious East.

Where does the Pope condemn and attack Muslim Sudanies leaders for genociding 400,000 people, and other Muslim attrocities, with the same constant intense, condemnation that he uses to attack America in Iraq and Israel in Lebonon?
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It is not his job to specifically condemn other faiths. Beyond calling for “stronger international resolve”, what is he to do, send in the Swiss Guards? His main purpose is to call all people to Christ and I think the tone of his speech on Sudan is indicative of that. As far as condeming the West, you are misreading his intent. He is not “condemning” the West but rather calling us back to our spiritual heritage.

Why do you insist on using hostile terms like “condemning” the West? And what is your purpose in portraying the Pope as engaging in duplicitous backtracking? I’ve seen no evidence of anything of the sort. It is just interesting that you portray the Pope’s great love for the West, our history and our heritage and a desire to regain that heritage as “condemnation”. Did you think the book or his speech said, “You will all burn in hell, you evil secular people of the West! God condemns you to hell for your immoral ways!” Please - Read his speeches and his books and then watch a video about Westboro Baptist to get the contrast between loving firmness and condemnation.
 
Steven_Merten said:
Hello Eden,

I have no idea what you are trying to imply with a baptist link and a link to the Pope speaking in German.

Please paraphrase in your own words what you are trying to get accross from these two links.
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Really? I thought it was clear in the post just above the links. I’ll post again.
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Eden:
Please - Read his speeches and his books and then watch a video about Westboro Baptist to get the contrast between loving firmness and condemnation.
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I suppose that goes to show you don’t read everything posted to you. That’s O.K. You’re entitled to ignore my posts unless they look interesting. 😃

I’m glad that you visited the video of the Pope on YouTube. Please look again and you will see that the English translation is provided.
 
Eden said:
It is not his job to specifically condemn other faiths. Beyond calling for “stronger international resolve”, what is he to do, send in the Swiss Guards? His main purpose is to call all people to Christ and I think the tone of his speech on Sudan is indicative of that. As far as condeming the West, you are misreading his intent. He is not “condemning” the West but rather calling us back to our spiritual heritage.
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Hello Eden,

It is not the job of America to enforce Christianity. That is the Pope’s job.

Would it be fair Catholics to demand that the Pope stop reffering to the “evil secular West” and start refering his speaches to the evil Catholic Church existing in the Western hemisphere?

I agree with you. It is time for the Pope to condemn the massive level of evil, of Catholics having abortions, Catholics committing adultery, Catholics fornincating, Catholics abandoning the teachings of Christ, Catholics murdering, and all the abominations going on in the Church of 1.1 billion members, especially those evils of Catholics of the western hemisphere.

If the Pope wants to “call a people back to Christ”, let him address that people he is talking to directly by their name instead of hiding behind this “secular West” terminology. In this way the Pope will be directly addressing the people who need to be called back to their Christian heritage.

I as an American and a Catholic, I would no longer be greatly offended by the Pope’s speeches against America.

You are right. It is not the Pope’s job to condemn America or any nation or any other religions. It is the Pope’s job to condemn the evils existing in the Catholic Church of 1.1 billion members.
 
Steven_Merten said:
Hello Eden,

It is not the job of America to enforce Christianity. That is the Pope’s job.
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To what are you responding with this? When did the Pope ask “the United States” to “enforce Christianity”? I don’t understand your need for hyperbole. Surely you can make a point without it.
Would it be fair Catholics to demand that the Pope stop reffering to the “evil secular West” and start refering his speaches to the evil Catholic Church existing in the Western hemisphere?
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I can only conclude that you do not regularly listen to the Pope’s speeches. They are all archived at www.vatican.va for you to reference. I understand that the Pope is above all, an intellectual, so it may be confusing to grasp some of the concepts he presents. But to diminish a work like “Without Roots” to being about the “evil secular West” is to miss the real beauty of the Pope’s thought and to completely miss his great love and affection for our Western heritage. I assume you haven’t read the book. It is meant to be affirming and inspirational, not condemnatory.

From the tone of your posts, I can see you are hostile to the Pope. From what I have read from you so far, I can only see a desperate attempt to see something diabolical that just isn’t there.
I agree with you. It is time for the Pope to condemn the massive level of evil, of Catholics having abortions, Catholics committing adultery, Catholics fornincating, Catholics abandoning the teachings of Christ, Catholics murdering, and all the abominations going on in the Church of 1.1 billion members, especially those evils of Catholics of the western hemisphere.
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I don’t recall ever making the list you provided above. Where are you getting this? And why do you continue to see condemnation where I see loving guidance?
If the Pope wants to “call a people back to Christ”, let him address that people he is talking to directly by their name instead of hiding behind this “secular West” terminology. In this way the Pope will be directly addressing the people who need to be called back to their Christian heritage.
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Call whom by name? Every secular Westerner? I don’t get what you are saying here. Just as Christ never forced belief on anyone, the Pope does not desire to force faith on anyone. It is an invitation to reconsider the disastrous direction in which we are headed for anyone who will listen.
I as an American and a Catholic, I would no longer be greatly offended by the Pope’s speeches against America.
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I have no doubt that the Pope loves us and desires nothing more for the people of the United States and Europe than to know Christ and live the abundant lives Christ came to give us.
You are right. It is not the Pope’s job to condemn America or any nation or any other religions. It is the Pope’s job to condemn the evils existing in the Catholic Church of 1.1 billion members.
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I still don’t get this “condemn” obsession. We are talking about a loving, Christian man who is seriously concerned for our welfare. Is a father who disciplines his child condemning them or showing the greatest love by addressing where they are going astray. Can you please explain to me why you continue to portray the Pope as an angry condemner when I have never even heard him once raise his voice in anger?
 
Eden said:
From the tone of your posts, I can see you are hostile to the Pope. From what I have read from you so far, I can only see a desperate attempt to see something diabolical that just isn’t there.

Call whom by name? Every secular Westerner? I don’t get what you are saying here. Just as Christ never forced belief on anyone, the Pope does not desire to force faith on anyone. It is an invitation to reconsider the disastrous direction in which we are headed for anyone who will listen.
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America and Europe embrace all beliefs and religions. America and Europe are melting pots of all religions and beliefs. Satanism, athieism, Buddism, Agnostics, Muslims, Catholics, etc. For the Pope to assume that he is somehow talking to the Catholic Church when he talks about the secular West is a bit arogant. If he wants to call a people back to their roots the “name” he should be using is Catholic Church not “secular West”. If the Pope wants to talk about the evils of Catholics living in the Western Hemisphere, then the Pope should not use the term “secular West” but the “name” Catholic Church of the Western Hemisphere.

I have no diabolical plot against the Pope. I am greatly offended by the Pope’s constant overwhealming bias and discrimination against me and my fellow Americans in face of far worse attrocities committed by Eastern Nations and Eastern Religions.
 
Steven_Merten said:
America and Europe embrace all beliefs and religions. America and Europe are melting pots of all religions and beliefs. Satanism, athieism, Buddism, Agnostics, Muslims, Catholics, etc. For the Pope to assume that he is somehow talking to the Catholic Church when he talks about the secular West is a bit arogant.
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I don’t understand the part in bold. The Pope is speaking to anyone who will listen and receive his message, not specifically “the Catholic Church” when he talks of reviving Christianity in Europe. As far as characterizing anything the Pope does as arrogant, I couldn’t agree with you less. He is a humble and holy man - and very gentle and serene by all accounts from those who have met him.
I have no diabolical plot against the Pope. I am greatly offended by the Pope’s constant overwhealming bias and discrimination against me and my fellow Americans in face of far worse attrocities committed by Eastern Nations and Eastern Religions.
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I can see that you are greatly offended. I just don’t understand what caused offense. What bias and discrimination has the Pope constantly given your fellow Americans? I’m American, too, and I don’t know what you mean.

I also didn’t say that you had a diabolical plot against the Pope. I said you were trying to make diabolical the intentions of a Pope that are clearly benign and loving.
in face of far worse attrocities committed by Eastern Nations and Eastern Religions.
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The Pope has stated that he feels a strenghthened and Christian West is the first step in dealing with what is happening in the rest of the world. He’s made his choice about where his focus should be during this Pontificate and I believe it’s inspired. While the Pope’s focus may not make sense to you, I believe he is guided by the Holy Spirit.
 
I wanted to ask, too, if you have concrete examples of the Pope constantly attacking the United States?

It occurred to me that you may actually be understanding the “West” to mean only the U.S. In fact, it refers to Europe, Canada, the United States and, I would think, Australia and New Zealand, as well.
 
There is no redirection needed. The Pope made three important points in his speech.

Point 1: All great ideas involve God. The truth, a blessing from God, must be rationally defended and advanced in the world through reason.

Point 2: Irrational violence directed at innocent people cannot be God’s will.

Point 3: If the West keeps moving toward its own irrationalism, i.e. if we lose the ability to rationally define morality and truth, we are left with nothing to defend.

The Pope doesn’t need the Church to redirect his speech. The speech contained all the direction the Pope intended! God Bless.
 
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