Has the #MeToo movement become a witch-hunt to a significant degree?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Maxirad
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
I wear many midway down my calves and keep my cleavage covered - never seemed to stop a guy who wanted to bother me.

The worst area I had for harassment was up north. I was pretty well covered simply because it was freezing cold half the year. Bare skin hurt outdoors.
 
starshiptrooper said:
No, the preponderance of concern needs to be focused on following the rules, innocent until proven guilty, and requiring actual proof of guilt.
Click to expand...
But we don’t need to do that outside court.

Otherwise, you’d need to treat Mattress Girl as innocent of lying until proven guilty.
 
ConstantLearner said:
I don’t know any man who would say that about make up unless he was mentally ill. And I work with people in PR, so I know a LOT of men and women.
Click to expand...
PR guys are probably more savvy about what goes into professional personal appearance for women.
 
Last edited:
starshiptrooper said:
Of course that fear factor that has nothing to do with the misandrists who insist that rapists are lurking around every corner.
Click to expand...
Eh, do you not realize that “misandrists” are actually the least of your problems? The modern feminists that I agree with are very clear about the fact that normal men are perfectly safe to be around. The trick is learning who isn’t safe to be around, and persuading normal people not to give cover to rape-y guys. (And yes, there are lots of normal people giving cover to sexual assault and abuse–look up the details of the Boston priest sex scandals, Penn State’s Sandusky, or the recent gymnastics scandal.)

Some of the worst things you will ever hear about men come from non-feminists. Here are some things women have heard from “traditional,” “conservative” people in the last 20 years that contribute to fear:

–If you get raped, it’s your fault
–If you report rape or sexual abuse, believing you will be the absolute last option.
–Women are the gatekeepers of sex (and it’s OK for men to keep hammering on the latch until the gate opens) because men have no sexual self-control.
–Men always want sex
–Male libido is totally uncontrollable, so as soon as the launch protocol starts, it’s impossible for him to turn back or stop (as Simcha Fisher said about this view recently “Yes, he can stop. Of course he can stop. What is he, a defective robot?”). This was still very much a thing when I was a young woman in the 90s–it was trotted out as an argument against “no means no.”
–If you’re ever alone with a man, anything bad that happens is your fault!
–If you lose your virginity, you’re wrecked forever!
–Men ought to be able to do whatever they want in marriage and their wives should never say no.

If anything, it’s these views that make men scary–these are views that give men total power, but no responsibility if anything goes wrong.

Bear in mind that being a guy (and a young guy), you have been exposed to very different cultural messaging than women have, especially women who are older and/or from a conservative religious background.
 
Last edited:
TheAmazingGrace said:
And if some men were to take your “plunging neckline” as an invitation to “harass you or more,” would you blame yourself for your lack of prudence? Or would you blame the boorish jerks for taking your clothing as an invitation?
Click to expand...
I’d blame myself if I were harassed, but I don’t take compliments as harassment. If someone tried to touch me, sure, I’d blame myself.

Men, in general, really do have a harder time controlling urges than women. I suppose this is to insure the continuation of the race. If men complained about compliments, pats on the back, friendly hugs, etc. like women do the human race would have died out long ago.
 
Xantippe said:
You can kind of tell this from the fact that single mothers rarely have large families anymore. Single motherhood means decades of poverty and life-long struggle. If single motherhood was easy, fun and lucrative, the US TFR would be WAY higher than 1.84.
Click to expand...
How can single mothers have large families? Promiscuity? IVF?
 
Xantippe said:
PR guys are probably more savvy about what goes into professional personal appearance for women.
Click to expand...
The PR guys are working for someone else. I’m meeting with my clients, who, for the most part, are celebrities.
 
Apologies for thread-hogging, but here’s a not-atypical piece from Camille Paglia from 1991:


That’s a 3.5 page article about how terrifying and rape-y men are, and how it’s completely on women to protect themselves, with just their native wit and an immediate police report (and no fair confiding in other women!). It actually reminds me of Constant Learner’s position, which is that women are either supposed to manage everything themselves or turn to the police, with no other options available.

The reason I bring this dusty article up is that my dad gave it to me to read back when it came out in the early 1990s when I was a teenager, and it was just about the only advice my dad ever gave me on the subject. Now that I’m an adult, I think it’s an utterly bizarre point of view. Why would a woman ever want to marry a man or accept men in authority if she believed that men are all sex-crazed lunatics? It’s an argument for the convent or lesbian separatism (Paglia is a lesbian) rather than Christian marriage. (Also, you might ask yourself, if men are all like that, what is the point of turning to the police for help? After all, they’re mostly men, too.)

This is the sort of thing Dark Light and I are talking about–a lot of “traditional” advice just makes men in general sound terrible.
 
Xantippe said:
It was more of a thing back in the 1980s and early 1990s, before welfare reform.
Click to expand...
So promiscuity. Nice. Definitely not the way to have even one child, let alone several.
 
Last edited:
Xantippe said:
Again, my husband HATES being touched without warning.
Click to expand...
Most men don’t, and there are some things we just have to live with. I hate rain. I HATE it. I want the sun to shine every day. But it does rain. Infrequently, where I live, but it does rain. The world can’t be “made to order.” That’s a sandwich.
 
Last edited:
ConstantLearner said:
Most men don’t, and there are some things we just have to live with. I hate rain. I HATE it. I want the sun to shine every day. But it does rain. Infrequently, where I live, but it does rain. The world can’t be “made to order.” That’s a sandwich.
Click to expand...
Why not?

Why do the people who want to touch other people get a veto over people who do not wish to be touched? Isn’t that basically the logic of rape, come to think of it–being able to do what one wants with another person’s body?

And the other thing is, your analogy makes it sound like it’s completely uncontrollable.
 
Last edited:
This may be somewhat of a stereotype. At work, there are about the same percentage of women and men who dislike being touched, and that percentage is about 40%.

I don’t mind, but I’m somewhat elderly and not likely to be considered a “sexual object”.

Of course, the work environment here is very warm and welcoming, so instances of misunderstanding is probably very low.

Other environments, YMMV.
 
Xantippe said:
Why do the people who want to touch other people get a veto over people who do not wish to be touched? Isn’t that basically the logic of rape, come to think of it–being able to do what one wants with another person’s body?
Click to expand...
People touch in a friendly manner because it’s human nature to do so. People are social beings, and without friendly touch, they wither and die spiritually, which is probably why so many feminists are unattractive (not referencing anyone here, just in general, and thinking more of those high profile ones on TV).

Premature babies who are not touched frequently often sicken and die even when they should grow and thrive.

Healthy people want and need to be touched. Not by everyone, but by more than a parent, sibling, or spouse.

Rapists are another story. That is mental illness.
 
Last edited:
StephieNorthCo said:
I don’t mind, but I’m somewhat elderly and not likely to be considered a “sexual object”.
Click to expand...
Well, I don’t know. Rapists don’t seem to care who their victim is. I know a sixty-something woman who went home for lunch, surprised a burglar, and he raped her before he fled. Now, that is rape, not just touch.

In this day and age, a woman who is “somewhat elderly” can be far more attractive than a young woman, who looks kind of incomplete in a way. Probably because many lack self-confidence and assurance. Self-confidence is very attractive to men.
 
Sounds like equivocation to me.

I got self confidence to burn. I have been propositioned out on the street. It’s quite interesting how a good hearty laugh deflates many attempts.

This has nothing to do with “friendly touches”. I think there is a herring that reflects 600nm of light at work here.
 
StephieNorthCo said:
This has nothing to do with “friendly touches”.
Click to expand...
Of course rape has nothing to do with friendly touches, although some of the posters seem to equate rape with friendly touching.

The question was: Has the #MeToo movement become a witch hunt to a significant degree?

Yes, it has. Men who are sexually harassing right now should be confronted, but women who come forward 10 20, 30 years after-the-fact should keep silent. They are hurting the movement more than helping it. Pretty soon no one will believe any woman, even one who is out-and-out raped. Even our president is defending several serial sexual harassers. That might be because he’s a sexual harasser himself, by his own admission. I believe Bill Cosby, for example, harassed and inappropriately touched women, but I do not believe all the women who say he did. And some kept silent just to save their jobs. That is not right. Had I been on his jury, I would have had to vote for acquittal. And I can’t stand Bill Cosby because he’s so arrogant.
 
Last edited:
ConstantLearner said:
Of course rape has nothing to do with friendly touches, although some of the posters seem to equate rape with friendly touching.
Click to expand...
There certainly could be a common feature of feeling entitled to do things with other people’s bodies without their consent.
ConstantLearner said:
Men who are sexually harassing right now should be confronted, but women who come forward 10 20, 30 years after-the-fact should keep silent.
Click to expand...
Why? Why isn’t it helpful to the women who are being harassed now by those exact same people to come forward and say, he did X, Y and Z 10, 20 or 30 years ago?

It lends credibility to current accusers when it’s possible to establish a long-standing pattern of bad behavior.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top