Has women in the work force helped or hurt the family?

[Serap]

Originally Posted by irishpatrick
I want to close my presence on this thread by stating clearly that I have made generalized statements here, if you find my views do not apply to you, then great they do not apply to you. I am simply of the mind that parents today (fathers and mothers) need to give some very careful thought to the choices they make regarding their children and I think quite often parents think more about themselves, then they do of their children. If I said anything that you felt was insulting, then I sincerely apologize.

…and I accept your apology also.

 

[Serap]

I, on the other hand, am staring outside at the most glorious spring break weather that Central Florida could possibly provide… I’m mad I can’t go outside and play!!

Canadians claim that they enjoy their winters…but let me tell you a little secret…

Us Canadians HATE Canadian winters!!! We just say that to feel better about it.

 

[Em_in_FL]

Canadians claim that they enjoy their winters…but let me tell you a little secret…

Us Canadians HATE Canadian winters!!! We just say that to feel better about it.

Don’t worry… Floridians aren’t very fond of summer either.

 

[ChiRho]

I think a stay at home mom is ideal, but sometimes finances or individual circumstances will prevent this from happening, and the mom must enter the workforce.

However, this should never be at the expense of the children or upkeep of the home. To those who are working women with children, what motivates your employment outside the home? Those with husbands present: could you survive financially if you quit your job?

Also, we should define “survive”, since it is my opinion that what we in the West term as survival is a relatively wealthy existence, and the “necessities” of a good life are often unnecessary.

 

[glencora]

*irishpatrick
Regular Member

Without evidence, I find it to be scandalously unfair to claim “very high percentages” of 19050s moms used drugs to get by. Please provide proof if there is any.

Beyond that, nothing I posted is wrong. Please, name on blessing that humans have that goes beyond motherhood??? *

Serap is correct. A very high percentage of women, particularly “stay at home” mothers” were taking sedatives in the 1950’s. This is well documented. There is even a song, “Mother’s little helper,” by the Rolling Stones referencing the widespread addiction of the 1950’s housewife to Barbiturates, particularly Valium. Betty Friedan, author of the Feminine Mystique discusses at length the use of Valium, Seconal, and other such drugs, among middle and upper-class, white women. Her book is credited with launching “Second Wave Feminism”; the first wave being the Suffragette Movement from the 19th century, until the 1920’s. She wrote the book in response to a quiet anger, depression, and sense of alienation she perceived in herself and friends.

After interviewing hundreds of women, she realized they were slowly suffocating; without an outlet for creativity and self-expression. Women were expected to create an identity through marriage and family. Many were college educated. Society expected them to abandon any pursuit outside of the home, after marriage. Some had attended Ivy League colleges, like herself; a Smith College graduate. Each person has a life plan. It can include others, but cannot live through other people. Friedan’s book was read by millions of women in 1963. By 1973, the world for women was totally different. Nearly 50 years later; it is unrecognizable! I don’t agree with many of Friedan’s feminist beliefs, but that book resonated for a reason with women of her generation and afterwards!

 

[Serap]

Don’t worry… Floridians aren’t very fond of summer either.

yeah we had a Florida-like summer last year and I tell ya…it was DANG HOT!!! No way could i handle that every summer! It was soooo hot and our power went out for 3 hours b/c so much power was being used for air conditioning…DANG hot!!!

 

[glencora]

Append:

Each person has a life plan. It can include others, but you cannot live through other people.

 

[sharmin]

Of course motherhood is not only about sahm. I never said it was.

However, it is about whether or not children are a true priority. ]]

But that’s not a sah or woh issue. On one hand there could be a 2 working parent family where their children are top priority and on the other can be a sahm who is physically present, but spends the day doing chores, watching Dr. Phil, grocery shopping, etc. Hardly good, quality time where children are top priority. In other words, whether parents work or stay home does not indicate who values their children more. And the audacity to imply that if someone chooses to work (gasp!) that their children are not a priority is simply ridiculous!! It’s called lifestyle choices. Someone may value mom being physically present 24/7 (while dad isn’t) while someone else may value providing their children with Catholic school or college tuition. It’s all about choices and values. There is so much judging on this thread, it just makes my head spin.

(And now I’m off my soap box. lol)

 

[glencora]

The ability to conceive and birth a child is a miracle from God. Yet, women are more than our ability to become mothers. This is not belittling motherhood, but recognizing the myriad qualities which make us human beings, first! Men are never regarded simply as fathers. Men can be fathers and much more. Women, throughout history have been assigned two roles; wife and mother. It is almost as if our fertility is used as a sword to prevent us from being human beings too. I don’t even want children and marriage. Am I less of a woman?

 

[sharmin]

Fathers can be, and of course many times they are. Yet, fathers are simply built differently both emotionally and pysically.

In what way is this father (my friend in my example) built differently than a woman? I guess I am misunderstanding what you are saying.

We can make ourselves do any number of things. I know men who are sahds. They do a great job and they like it…yet they freely admit that their wives are far better at the nuturing and emotional aspects then they are.

I’m sure that’s true. But that isn’t necessarily because they are men. More likely it’s either the way their individual personalities are or it’s how they were raised…to feel a man isn’t supposed to be better at nurturing.

I think today that women have been sold such a bill of goods, and are so convinced that those goods are valuable, that they often cannot understand what they have given up. This applies to so many things, for example women actually believe that abortion and contraception is for them…what a vile joke that is…men are the real beneficiaries of contraception and abortion, but MEN have sold women on the idea that it is for them, that those “tools” help make women more free. Likewise, women have been sold the lie that having a career is the real way for them to feel satisfied and fullfilled in this life…and that staying at home with kids is somehow beneath their abilities.

The cool thing about being a working mom is that you can be an amazing and involved mom as well as fulfill your other desires in life. that’s the cool thing about being a dad. That’s a great thing…we all have the ability to choose. I assure you, my working offers my children MANY benefits…Catholic school, a college education, memorable vacations with their families they will take to their graves, a home, health insurance, food on the table, I could go on and on. Yes, I’m not by their side 24/7, but neither is their dad. They seem very happy, well-adjusted, moral, and content. If it’s a bill of goods I was sold, I’ll take it! Because my family is happy, secure, and loved.

When a mother works hard in a career and has several children in a daycare or with a nanny, I do wonder later in life when they reach say 65-70, will they look back and think that they should have spent even more time at work, or will they think that it would have been better if they could have spent more time with their children (and yes in most cases that applies to men and fathers too).

I wonder if my children will be on their deathbeds thinking, "I sure wish I didn’t go to school in 2nd grade. Think of all that time I could have spent with mom. " Seriously, in life there are places we go where we aren’t around the ones we love. Does that mean we should all 4 bunker down, close our doors and never go to work or school?

Missing out on school events, or when they cross new thresholds in their lives are often things that kids do ONE TIME, and if parents miss it, that moment is gone forever.

That’s right. Do you believe that all men should stay home in case they miss the first word? Because you’re right…we can never get it back.

Today, in many ways, women are basically men. They look different certainly, but that is about the only difference nowadays…and somehow I just do not believe God wants it that way. But again, I am just a guy with a limited and archaic pov.

Enough from me. Thanks again…have to get some real stuff done.

Glad you brought up men. I don’t get why they get off the hook for missing so many firsts.

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

The ability to conceive and birth a child is a miracle from God. Yet, women are more than our ability to become mothers. This is not belittling motherhood, but recognizing the myriad qualities which make us human beings, first! Men are never regarded simply as fathers. Men can be fathers and much more. Women, throughout history have been assigned two roles; wife and mother. It is almost as if our fertility is used as a sword to prevent us from being human beings too. I don’t even want children and marriage. Am I less of a woman?

My fertility is used as a sword to prevent me from being a human being…? I thought by virtue of being a homo sapien I was a de facto human.

Right after my first son was born, the hospital served me lunch. I remember exactly what it was, broiled chicken. As I ate the lunch, my little guy was in the nursery with his dad getting checked.

I remember eating and thinking that the food was the most deserved meal I had ever had…and that all my experiences up until that point were trivial. Giving birth was the most difficult yet most rewarding feat I ever accomplished.

Being a mother is the hardest role I have ever had.

.

 

[glencora]

*Mary Gail 36
Regular Member

My fertility is used as a sword to prevent me from being a human being…? I thought by virtue of being a homo sapien I was a de facto human.

Right after my first son was born, the hospital served me lunch. I remember exactly what it was, broiled chicken. As I ate the lunch, my little guy was in the nursery with his dad getting checked.

I remember eating and thinking that the food was the most deserved meal I had ever had…and that all my experiences up until that point were trivial. Giving birth was the most difficult yet most rewarding feat I ever accomplished.

Being a mother is the hardest role I have ever had.*

What I meant was that fertility was/is used cynically (by some) to limit women’s self-actualization. Being a mother does not mean that one cannot be a doctor, scientist, teacher, lawyer, engineer, politician, etc. You can do both very well. Men are never told that because you can become a father; you must not have a career.

 

[ChiRho]

The ability to conceive and birth a child is a miracle from God. Yet, women are more than our ability to become mothers. This is not belittling motherhood, but recognizing the myriad qualities which make us human beings, first! Men are never regarded simply as fathers. Men can be fathers and much more. Women, throughout history have been assigned two roles; wife and mother. **It is almost as if our fertility is used as a sword to prevent us from being human beings too. **I don’t even want children and marriage. Am I less of a woman?

I’m not really sure what the bolded line means, but it comes off as an oft-repeated feminist talking point. I could just as easily say that throughout history men have been forced to provide for a family, fight wars and give their life up for their family and that this has been used to “prevent men from being human beings”, but this would be absurd.

For most human beings, marriage and parenthood is their calling, although circumstances might prevent one or the other. Would you like to explain your reasoning for not wanting either?

 

[ChiRho]

What I meant was that fertility was/is used cynically (by some) to limit women’s self-actualization. Being a mother does not mean that one cannot be a doctor, scientist, teacher, lawyer, engineer, politician, etc. You can do both very well. Men are never told that because you can become a father; you must not have a career.

Consider the fact that the roles of fathers and mothers are not the same. You are essentially saying that “anything a man can do a woman can do, there should be no preference to one or the other, and they are statistically equal”. Now it might be true that a woman can be a doctor, but what if this woman has 4 young children? How can she trade off a career for children, or visa versa? The fact is that a mother naturally has a much stronger role in the upbringing of children, especially infants, and that it is unlikely to be able to have both a busy, high demand job and also be able to care for a family. Both can be done, but not simultaneously. I would also recommend that married men not take dangerous jobs unnecessarily because of the stress and danger it places a family in emotionally, financially and spiritually. Maybe when a man is single, but not when he has a family.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Can we lose the terms

“stay at home mom” or “stay at home dad?”

I have done NOTHING LIKE staying at home the entire time I’ve been a homemaker! Running after the kids when they were little, all the sports, activities, doctor and dentist appointments - I wasn’t staying at home except when they were itty bitty babies.

Full-time parent may be a little more accurate. Although I do prefer homemaker since I also am a full-time buyer, project manager, tutor, cook, driver, etc. etc. etc.

 

[happymommy]

Can we lose the terms

“stay at home mom” or “stay at home dad?”

I have done NOTHING LIKE staying at home the entire time I’ve been a homemaker! Running after the kids when they were little, all the sports, activities, doctor and dentist appointments - I wasn’t staying at home except when they were itty bitty babies.

Full-time parent may be a little more accurate. Although I do prefer homemaker since I also am a full-time buyer, project manager, tutor, cook, driver, etc. etc. etc.

I prefer Domestic Engineer

 

[Warrenton]

Men are never told that because you can become a father; you must not have a career.

They should be told.

 

[Warrenton]

I find it both laughable and horrifying to learn you think a bond between caregiver and child is bad. I have no words…

If the caregiver is not the child’s parent, but is hired to play the part of a parent, then that is bad.

Other things may be worse, but when a child has a parental bond with someone who is merely paid to take the place of a parent, that child is being misled in a fundamental way.

Do you think working fathers don’t raise their children because they hold jobs?

 

[TheRealJuliane]

But, in the modern world, we confuse “being” something with how we feel, rather than the actions we take.

Very, very true. I remember the concept of “quality time,” which meant that parents who basically didn’t pay any attention to their kids, could convince themselves that if they paid 10 minutes of focused time (on their own schedule of course, not the child’s) and attention, that meant they were good parents.

That’s like doing your job for 5 or 10 minutes every day and then telling yourself you are Employee of the Month. The boss might disagree, and the kids got the message loud and clear also.

 

[sharmin]

Can we lose the terms

“stay at home mom” or “stay at home dad?”

I have done NOTHING LIKE staying at home the entire time I’ve been a homemaker! Running after the kids when they were little, all the sports, activities, doctor and dentist appointments - I wasn’t staying at home except when they were itty bitty babies.

Full-time parent may be a little more accurate. Although I do prefer homemaker since I also am a full-time buyer, project manager, tutor, cook, driver, etc. etc. etc.

As long as full time parent also describes working mothers and fathers as well, because I certainly parent full time!