Have Muslims misinterpreted much of their quran or

[spn82756]

If you say the Church, then I would say that none of the disciples of Jesus (pbuh) after his alleged crucifixion ever crossed themselves when they prayed or built a cross at their places of worship.

Hamba…what does making the Sign of the Cross have to do with what Jesus taught? What does putting crosses have to do with what Jesus taught?

Did Allah tell you to put moons on top of minerets? Did Allah tell you to build minerets? Did he say that some mosques had to have minerets and others not?

Sorry…I don’t see ANY link between what Jesus (peace is upon him…He is GOD. Ask for His peace to be upon you ) taught and crossing ourselves. Not all Christians do it anyway. Jesus DEFINITELY didn’t say to pray facing Mecca.

 

[schaick]

Grace_Singh - no it was from the link I provided: bibleandquran.org/isjesusgod/conclusion.htm I am going to take a look at the book you mentioned thanks!

Think of the Qur’an as the map to guide us in our journey through life and think of the Sunnah (this would include the ahadith) of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) as the legend by which to correctly read this map.

Only a fool will try to read a map without at the same time referring to the accompanying legend.

And so, Muslims really have no fear of misinterpreting the Qur’an because we have the Sunnah of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) to refer to in order for us to obtain the most accurate interpretation of the Qur’an possible.

The symbols on a **good map **are so clear that you don’t need to look at the legend.

Hadith are not GOD inspired and you are betting your soul on the sayings and actions of a sinner?

 

[spn82756]

There has always been minor differences in opinion among Muslims, even among the companions of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).

However, when we examine the beliefs of the different sects that exists today and the notable differences that exists between them, it is fairly obvious that for the most part, they are not properly adhering to the Sunnah but are instead following their own desires and interests based on such things as parochialism, tribalism, tradition, etc.

Be that as it may, at least Muslims have the Qur’an and the Sunnah to refer to in order for us to get back into line if we go astray and straighten ourselves out so to speak.

What do Christians use as a reference in order to go back to the original teachings of Jesus (pbuh)?

If you say the Church, then I would say that none of the disciples of Jesus (pbuh) after his alleged crucifixion ever crossed themselves when they prayed or built a cross at their places of worship.

Wow…Sunnis seem to consider Shia heretics and vise versa. Sounds like more than minor differences. Do not many sects consider the others to be infidels…just like they consider Christians to be.

 

[hamba2han]

Hamba…what does making the Sign of the Cross have to do with what Jesus taught? What does putting crosses have to do with what Jesus taught?..

It has EVERYTHING to do with the Second Commandment

4 You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and the fourth generation of those who reject me, … Exodus 20:4&5

"Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the LORD your God." … Leviticus 26:1

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

 

[schaick]

Is Mohammad confused? There is just enough truth to try and confuse us, in which case the Quran is really from the satan/devil? Or did satan/devil get to Mohammad? We know that the early verses of the Quran were peaceful, but then something happens and they become violent. Or is it Muslims that are confused? They say our scripture is corrupt but how can it be when allah sents scripture and guards it safely?

So who killed Jesus? the Jews, Romans? Pilate? I believe all of us killed Jesus because of our sin. We know that Jesus suffered a physical death but that He was alive spiritually and rose later. Is Mohammad just lousy at telling a story?

4.157 That they said, “We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah”;- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-

It was a part of GOD’s plan that HIS SON would die for us:

3.54 And plotted and planned, and Allah too planned, and the best of planners is Allah.
3:55 Behold! Allah said: "O Jesus! I will take thee and raise thee to Myself and clear thee of those who blaspheme; I will make those who follow thee superior to those who reject faith, to the Day of Resurrection: Then shall ye all return unto me, and I will judge between you of the matters wherein ye dispute.

Muslims deny that Jesus as a prophet would or could be killed, but according to the Quran it had happened before:

2.61 And remember ye said: “O Moses! we cannot endure one kind of food; so beseech thy Lord for us to produce for us of what the earth groweth, -its pot-herbs, and cucumbers, Its garlic, lentils, and onions.” He said: “Will ye exchange the better for the worse? Go ye down to any town, and ye shall find what ye want!” They were covered with humiliation and misery; they drew on themselves the wrath of Allah. This because they went on rejecting the Signs of Allah and slaying His Messengers without just cause. This because they rebelled and went on transgressing.

According to the Quran the Bible is not corrupt:

5.46 And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel: therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to those who fear Allah.
5.47 Let the people of the Gospel judge by what Allah hath revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by what Allah hath revealed, they are those who rebel.
5.48 To thee We sent the Scripture in truth, confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety: so judge between them by what Allah hath revealed, and follow not their vain desires, diverging from the Truth that hath come to thee. To each among you have we prescribed a law and an open way. If Allah had so willed, He would have made you a single people, but to test you in what He hath given you: so strive as in a race in all virtues. The goal of you all is to Allah; it is He that will show you the truth of the matters in which ye dispute;

What do you think?

 

[spn82756]

It has EVERYTHING to do with the Second Commandment

4 You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and the fourth generation of those who reject me, … Exodus 20:4&5

"Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the LORD your God." … Leviticus 26:1

http://www.(name removed by moderator)lainsite.org/assets/images/Pope-Mary-3.jpg

Making the sign of the cross is a graven image? Starting prayer in the name of the One True God is a graven image?

As far as graven images…sounds like you’re going to have to destroy the Kaba. And what about the thing that you throw stones at? Oh…and what about all those pictures of Imams in Shia. And the list goes on and on.

Hamba…don’t forget the pics of your friends and family.

I will credit you with this…you’ve used what in your claim is a flawed book to crizitize Catholicism. Now…you should be using it to show that Jesus is God.

BTW…we don’t pray to statues. We use them as a reminder of our saints and invoking their intercession. We believe in the communion of saints…in heavn and on earth.

 

[hamba2han]

Wow…Sunnis seem to consider Shia heretics and vise versa. Sounds like more than minor differences. Do not many sects consider the others to be infidels…just like they consider Christians to be.

Kindly read read again what I wrote… I said that even the companions of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) would have minor differences of opinion among themselves.

During the time of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), there was no such thing as Sunni and Shia sects in Islam.

 

[spn82756]

Kindly read read again what I wrote… I said that even the companions of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) would have minor differences of opinion among themselves.

During the time of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), there was no such thing as Sunni and Shia sects in Islam.

Hamba…thank you for making my point. The differences have grown because the koran is not written in such a way as to have only one possible interpretation.

 

[hamba2han]

Hamba…thank you for making my point. The differences have grown because the koran is not written in such a way as to have only one possible interpretation.

This discussion is going around in circles.

Kindly read again what I said about the Sunnah being the legend by which to correctly interpret the Qur’an.

Major divisions (as opposed to minor differences which are normal) have cropped up mainly because Muslims have not properly followed the Sunnah and have instead interpreted the Qur’an according to their own narrow interests and desires.

 

[planten]

True, there have always been sects in Christianity that denied key doctrines, but belief in Christ’s divinity has been there from the beginning. Read the early fathers. I’m not sure if you’re aware of the fact that Christian dogmas have usually only been declared by the Church because someone somewhere was denying them. The council of Nicaea is sometimes cited as having changed Christian doctrines but it was called to solidify doctrines that were being denied by groups like the Arians.
My point about believing Muhammed over the apostles was that Christianity is based solidly on a historical base, with historical witnesses who were willing to be tortured to death rather than deny the divinity of Christ, which they knew from first hand experience. Islam is based on just the testimony of Muhammed.
I guess what I’m getting at, and I ask this only out of curiosity and not animosity, why do you believe in the credibility of Muhammed?

Please note that Muhamamd was a simple man in Makkah, an orphan. When he grew up, he was called by the people as “Saadiq” and “Ameen”. i.e. Truthful and trustworthy. Muhammad was mostly engaged in prayers and helping the poor (needy).

People in Makkah were pagans, worshipping idols. Muhammad came to know that it was wrong to worship the idols. At the age of 25,Muhammad got married to a wealthy lady Khadijah aged 40. She was a widow.

It made things more easy for Muhammad and he used to goout of city with foodstuff and resign in selusion in a cave near Makkah for many days. There he used to worship Allah.

When he was aged 40, he received the call from Allah, the first revelation. Angel Gabriel visited Muhammad with the first message. It was an entirely new experience for Muhammad…

He was called upon from Allah to denounce the worship of the idols. It was a hard task. He started his ministry and got just a few followers (like did Jesus in the beginning). Muhammad and his followers were highly persecuted, many were killed, many migrated to a nearby christian state (Ethiopia). The followers of Jesus suffered persecution after Jesus left. But followers of Muhammad suffered during the life time of the prophet.

All those followers were a witness to the message that was received by Muhammad. During the last sermon at Makkah in year 631 A.D. Muhamamd addressed more than 124,000 followers, in his life time.How can you say that it was just Muhammad only, one man show??

Your argument is not understood. There were more than 124,000 witnesses for Muhammad before he died a natural death in year 632 A.D. Muhammad gave us a good message about Jesus. Peace.

 

[KathleenGee]

Many Muslims do not know the truth of the crucifixion…the sacrifice Christ made to save us from sin and to destroy the power of death and sin over us.

Thus, the sign of the Cross is not a battle sign for the Crusades, but the sign of tremendous love through the ultimate sacrifice of His death for His new life in us.

 

[KathleenGee]

Likewise, you pray in a mosque to Allah and it is a sacred space to you.

Do you know the name of that statue you gave us of John Paul II? It is Mary of Fatima.

Our custom goes back to ancient times to the Sanctuary of the Holiest of Holies where the presence of God had the statues of two angels pointing in the direction of Him.

You could say we make mini pilgrimages across the interior of our church to go to a particular sacred spot/statue…We go to certain locations in our churches as another expression of faith reflecting the degree of depth of our prayer petition.

BTW, this past week in Egypt, home of the happy and peaceful Muslim Brotherhood, people are alleging that Mary, Miriam, is coming to them in a prodigy above a Coptic Church, whose peaceful Christians for some reason have been going through hell the past few years.

To use the photo of John Paul II…yes, he had a great devotion to Mary, she saved his life when a Turk shot him…but if you ever read any of his writings or heard him speak, he was a very highly intelligent man and not given to praying to idols.

 

[Byzantine_Wolf]

There has always been minor differences in opinion among Muslims, even among the companions of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).

So Muslims are blowing one another up and beheading one another for “minor differences”? Then they are acting even sillier than one can imagine. Yet as spn82756 pointed out, the Sunni and Shia consider one another heretics and believe in things that divide the two: the Shia believed in the imamate while the Sunni emphasized the caliphate; these do not sound like “minor” differences.

However, when we examine the beliefs of the different sects that exists today and the notable differences that exists between them, it is fairly obvious that for the most part, they are not properly adhering to the Sunnah but are instead following their own desires and interests based on such things as parochialism, tribalism, tradition, etc.

Then who is the “correct” sect of Islam? Who are the “orthodox” Muslims? Who are the Muslims that adhere to the Sunnah?

Be that as it may, at least Muslims have the Qur’an and the Sunnah to refer to in order for us to get back into line if we go astray and straighten ourselves out so to speak.

What do Christians use as a reference in order to go back to the original teachings of Jesus (pbuh)?

If you say the Church, then I would say that none of the disciples of Jesus (pbuh) after his alleged crucifixion ever crossed themselves when they prayed or built a cross at their places of worship.

We would say the scripture and Church Tradition, which adheres to practices passed down by the apostles (who, incidentally, wrote extensively on the importance of the cross in our faith). To even argue that something may have come later is, again, as spn82756 pointed out, simply silly, because this argument can easily be used against you: where did Mohammad say put moons on your minarets or flags? Where did the prayer beads used by some Muslims come from? Where did the emphasis on the caliphate, found in some parts of Islam, come from? Most of these came after the time of Mohammad, yet we do not hear Muslims condemning it themselves.

It has EVERYTHING to do with the Second Commandment

Might I say that this is one of the reasons you should not trust the Koran? Because it doesn’t even understand Christianity? If it really did come from Allah, then Allah needed to do some serious research. I might add it seems like you’re trying to change the subject again…signing the cross and using a cross are not examples of idols, therefore referring to the second commandment and showing a picture of a Virgin Mary statue seems nonsensical.

 

[KathleenGee]

Byzantine Mike…

So here we meet again in a famliar genre…

 

[planten]

The present day Muslims are terribly divided in many aspects. IT has to be admitted and it is a sad / sorry affair.

They are divided in financial status, in education levels, in many beliefs, divided morally, politically, spiritually, practically…

All that was to happen. The prophet Muhammad had prophesied and told his followers:
“The Jews and christians were divided in 72 sects. My people will be divided into 73 sects…”

His followers (Companions) did not believe that. But it was said and it is has happened now according to that. The most effective diversion (separation) is amongst the Sunnis and Shias. But there are many other big branches, such as Deobandis, Brelvis, Wahhabis, Ahle Quran (Quranis), Ahmadis, each one cursing the other, God knows how many more, all sects are happy with whatever they have got with them…

 

[spn82756]

Please note that Muhamamd was a simple man in Makkah, an orphan. When he grew up, he was called by the people as “Saadiq” and “Ameen”. i.e. Truthful and trustworthy. Muhammad was mostly engaged in prayers and helping the poor (needy).

**When Jesus preached…he asked his followers who they thougth he was. **

Mark 8:27-33
**27 And Jesus went on with his disciples, to the villages of Caesare’a Philip’pi; and on the way he asked his disciples, “Who do men say that I am?” 28 And they told him, “John the Baptist; and others say, Eli’jah; and others one of the prophets.” 29 And he asked them, “But who do you say that I am?” Peter answered him, “You are the Christ.” 30 And he charged them to tell no one about him. 31 And he began to teach them that the Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected by the elders and the chief priests and the scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again. 32 And he said this plainly. **

People in Makkah were pagans, worshipping idols. Muhammad came to know that it was wrong to worship the idols. At the age of 25,Muhammad got married to a wealthy lady Khadijah aged 40. She was a widow.

It made things more easy for Muhammad and he used to goout of city with foodstuff and resign in selusion in a cave near Makkah for many days. There he used to worship Allah.

When he was aged 40, he received the call from Allah, the first revelation. Angel Gabriel visited Muhammad with the first message. It was an entirely new experience for Muhammad…

He was called upon from Allah to denounce the worship of the idols. It was a hard task. He started his ministry and got just a few followers (like did Jesus in the beginning). Muhammad and his followers were highly persecuted, many were killed, many migrated to a nearby christian state (Ethiopia). The followers of Jesus suffered persecution after Jesus left. But followers of Muhammad suffered during the life time of the prophet.

Yes…the followers of Jesus suffered persecution immediately after Jesus left. And in some places…Christians are still persecuted. Such as the Middle East where it can be illegal to worship Jesus as the ONE TRUE GOD (saudi arabia). Or in other countries such as Pakistan and Iraq where churches are destroyed by the humble followers of Mohammed. Oh…and let’s not forget what happens if you’re muslim and want to become Christian. Off with your head!! If you’re fellow muslims don’t do it spontaneously…then a court just might order it. It will take a massive outcry from the West to stop the excution. Remember…the West where Muslims are free to worship.

All those followers were a witness to the message that was received by Muhammad. During the last sermon at Makkah in year 631 A.D. Muhamamd addressed more than 124,000 followers, in his life time.How can you say that it was just Muhammad only, one man show??

Jesus has many more followers and witnesses…many died for him.

Your argument is not understood. There were more than 124,000 witnesses for Muhammad before he died a natural death in year 632 A.D. Muhammad gave us a good message about Jesus. Peace.

The **BIG **difference is that Jesus had many witnesses after his death. When the Father resurrected him to His glory. The NT has many examples of seeing the resurrected Jesus in his glorified body. Jesus brought a message of peace. Mohammad brought a message of violent conversion. Of taking advantage of the infidels. The opposite of what Jesus taught. The isa of the koran is not the Jesus of the Bible.

 

[PA650]

A charitable remark or not, but does not anyone else notice a similarity between the supposed Prophet of Muhammad and that of Joseph Smith?

 

[PadraigPearce]

I’ve been trying to get one point across in three or four separate posts, but I keep being misunderstood by our Muslim friends. Ultimately the whole religion of Islam comes down to Muhammed’s word alone. When I asked why Muhammed was believed to be credible, that answer was that he’s from God. When I asked how someone can be sure of this, the answer was basically that he seemed to be a credible person. I don’t want to flog a dead horse here, but I still don’t have an answer as to why Muhammed should be believed. He may have had 144,000 people at his last sermon, but so what? Lot’s of leaders have had large followings.

 

[spn82756]

A charitable remark or not, but does not anyone else notice a similarity between the supposed Prophet of Muhammad and that of Joseph Smith?

Help me here. I came up with several different googles for dzien dobry. From good morning to what appeared to be a Polish(?) female performer.

I need to be enlightened!!!

 

[spn82756]

Likewise, you pray in a mosque to Allah and it is a sacred space to you.

Do you know the name of that statue you gave us of John Paul II? It is Mary of Fatima.

Our custom goes back to ancient times to the Sanctuary of the Holiest of Holies where the presence of God had the statues of two angels pointing in the direction of Him.

You could say we make mini pilgrimages across the interior of our church to go to a particular sacred spot/statue…We go to certain locations in our churches as another expression of faith reflecting the degree of depth of our prayer petition.

BTW, this past week in Egypt, home of the happy and peaceful Muslim Brotherhood, people are alleging that Mary, Miriam, is coming to them in a prodigy above a Coptic Church, whose peaceful Christians for some reason have been going through hell the past few years.

To use the photo of John Paul II…yes, he had a great devotion to Mary, she saved his life when a Turk shot him…but if you ever read any of his writings or heard him speak, he was a very highly intelligent man and not given to praying to idols.

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