Have you accepted Jesus as YOUR personal Lord and Saviour???

[elvisman]

In (John 3:16), Jesus says “that whosoever believeth in Him (Christ) should not perish, but have everlasting life.”
In both (John 6:44) and (John 6:65), Jesus says that “no man CAN come” to Jesus except that the Father draws or gives the necessary saving faith in Jesus to actually come.
I see no contradiction here. We have the requirement of Who we must believe in to be saved along with the requirement of God’s gift of also being drawn by God to that saving faith in Jesus.
I can not see how you can explain away the “no man CAN” part of (John 6:44, and 65). You simply can’t, if you insist on our “free will” being a determining factor in our salvation.
Please explain away “no man CAN” in those verses using your “free-will” determination. The standard “It’s a mystery.” answer won’t cut it in my understanding.

You are right - as far as you say, “no man can” without god - we can’t.
**Where you go off the deep end is in thinking that because we need God to see the gift - we can’t reject it - we CAN. **

**God wills the salvation of ALL but that *doesn’*t mean ALL will be saved. Only those who accept his free gift of grace and faithfully endure to the end (2 Timothy 2:12, 1 Corinthians 10:12, 2 Chronicles 15:2, 2 Peter 2:20-21, Matthew 10:22, Matthew 24:13, Hebrews 10:26-27, Hebrews 10:29).
**

 

[JonNC]

The word “accept” as far as I know is not used in the Bible in relationship to Jesus Christ. The word “receive” is (John 1:12). I have heard both “receive” and “accept” in this phrase. I personally consider the word “receive” to be preferable, but in my opinion this is in the category of “straining at gnats and swallowing camels”.

I agree with you that “receive” is preferable to “accept”, but would differ with your characterization that it is “straining at gnats…”. For me, at least, “accept”, particularly in terms of justification, worries me of pelagianism.

Jon

 

[po18guy]

In (John 3:16), Jesus says “that whosoever believeth in Him (Christ) should not perish, but have everlasting life.”
In both (John 6:44) and (John 6:65), Jesus says that “no man CAN come” to Jesus except that the Father draws or gives the necessary saving faith in Jesus to actually come.
I see no contradiction here. We have the requirement of Who we must believe in to be saved along with the requirement of God’s gift of also being drawn by God to that saving faith in Jesus.
I can not see how you can explain away the “no man CAN” part of (John 6:44, and 65). You simply can’t, if you insist on our “free will” being a determining factor in our salvation.
Please explain away “no man CAN” in those verses using your “free-will” determination. The standard “It’s a mystery.” answer won’t cut it in my understanding.

Why even try to spread the Gospel, since those destined for heaven cannot be prevented, and those destined for hell cannot be saved? To me, this sounds fatalistic.

Saint Paul in Romans (Romans 11:32) speaks of “all” men, not those whom God chose. It is all grace, but we can choose accept or reject God’s grace. Who in scripture has been forced to accept God’s grace?

Again, in 1 Timothy 2:4, Saint Paul speaks of a God Who wants “all men” to be saved and come to knowledge of salvation. Since His grace is explicit in all salvation, is not then man’s free will, properly exercised, also capable of allowing “all men” to accept God’s grace? Where does scripture say that some were created for the purpose of destruction? I have not yet found that verse.

Titus 2:11 states that salvation appeared to “all men”. This makes no sense if some of them were destined for hell. What is the purpose of showing them salvation, if not to save them? Jealousy?

Saint Pater writes in 1 Peter 3:18 that Christ died “once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous”. “All” of us are unrighteous, correct? Why did Christ then die only for some?

Let’s go back a little bit: Did Eve have free will to reject the serpent’s offer, or was she “destined” to accept it? You appear to be saying that neither she nor Adam had any choice, and could not have refused the fruit.

Going back slightly further, did Lucifer and his fellow fallen angels have the free will to choose obedience to God? If not, then the only source of disobedience is the Lord Himself, who created one-third of the angels specifically to reject Him. This makes God the source of evil, does it not?

 

[rev_kevin]

Our free will has no part in our being saved.
Jesus said, “…, that no man can come unto Me, except it were given unto him of my Father.” (John 6:65) This verse proves that even the desire to come to true faith in Jesus is a gift and not something our free will can produce.

An earlier verse has Jesus saying, “No man can come to Me, except the Father which hath sent Me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.” (John 6:44) Again, I only see God’s will involved here.

A preacher might use the invitation method as part of his program and the Holy Spirit might choose to go along and bring that person to a saving faith, but neither the preacher nor the sinner has any “free-will” say in whether that sinner will eventually be saved by the preaching, invitation, or personal request to be saved etc.
Salvation is God’s work.
Free will comes into play after a believer is saved as he later serves God. A believer has to answer for that stewardship, but that stewardship can never be what saves him or salvation could not correctly be called a gift.

Free will does have a part in being saved. God wants all of us to be in union with him, to be part of his family, everyone the rightous and the sinners the offer is for “all” he does not force us to be part of his family, he gives us the choice to be in his family and that is where your “free will” comes in. You are “free” to accept him or not. Free will comes before one is saved. You cannot be saved unless you accept Christ as your “presonal” or as “your” Savior. How eles can you accept him unless from your “free will?”

 

[blazerdave]

I agree with you that “receive” is preferable to “accept”, but would differ with your characterization that it is “straining at gnats…”. For me, at least, “accept”, particularly in terms of justification, worries me of pelagianism.

Jon

Right there with ya. And let me add to all those who speak of a bound will being a “robot” or other similar terms: please don’t think of this in two extremes. It’s not that 1) we are puppets on a string and God pulls the “SAVED!!!” string, or 2) we choose God of our absolutely free will in spite of Original Sin and the curse on creation. Rather, we believe that God doesn’t simply make salvation possible. God saves sinners. We don’t accept it, because He has already done it. We receive the gift of faith. Yes, we may be aware of a moment when we “became Christians.” Or possibly we may not. Prayers of repentance are absolutely valuable, though not formulaically required. But such moments and prayers and personal decisions pale in light of what our Lord has done for us, so we prefer terminology that emphasizes that God had mercy on us sinners.

It’s not fatalism to recognize that our wills are as corrupted by the Fall as the rest of Creation. We choose what we do, but our intentions apart from Grace are only to please the self. Asking what part the will plays in salvation is really the wrong question. No offense meant to anyone in this thread; just trying to explain some things that are often misunderstood.

 

[Monica4316]

what’s a good answer to this question?

maybe - “I believe in Jesus, I repent of my sins whenever I go to Confession, and I receive Jesus - Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity - in the Eucharist every Sunday.”

how much more personal can it get!

 

[momor]

I have no problem with this if “personal” refers to Jesus. Meaning that Jesus is a personal God because He is a person who desires to be in relationship with us. This is the Christian view of God is it not, as opposed to someone who holds to a deist view of God?

 

[momor]

Acts 16:30 “…Sir, what must I do to be saved? They replied, Believe on the Lord Jesus and you will be saved…”

1 Corinthians 15:2 “And it is this Good News that you are saved if you firmly believe it…”

1 Peter 1:3 “All honor to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, for it is by his boundless mercy that God has given us the privilege of being born again.”

I couldn’t let this go unanswered. There is more to being saved than just belief. Belief is only the starting point. Or maybe a better way to define belief in Jesus is that it means you do what Jesus commands. I’m surprised my fellow Catholics didn’t pick up on this sooner.

Parable of the Rich Young Man Matthew 19: 16-22

16 And behold, one came up to him, saying, “Teacher, what good deed must I do, to have eternal life?” 17 And he said to him, “Why do you ask me about what is good? One there is who is good. If you would enter life, keep the commandments.” 18 He said to him, “Which?” And Jesus said, “You shall not kill, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, 19 Honor your father and mother, and, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 20 The young man said to him, “All these I have observed; what do I still lack?” 21 Jesus said to him, “If **you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.” **22 When the young man heard this he went away sorrowful; for he had great possessions.

 

[peary]

A lot of non-Catholics ask: Have you accepted Jesus as YOUR personal Lord and Savior? This question has quite irritated me for quite a while NOT because of the fact that Jesus is my saviour but it stresses that we OWN Jesus… I would like to believe that Jesus IS NOT OURS but WE BELONG TO JESUS!!!

This passage is taken from the bible and I hope all of you can meditate on it!!!

John 15:16
**You did not choose me, but I chose you **and appointed you to go and bear fruit–fruit that will last. Then the Father will give you whatever you ask in my name.

Good response.

 

[po18guy]

I couldn’t let this go unanswered. There is more to being saved than just belief. Belief is only the starting point. Or maybe a better way to define belief in Jesus is that it means you do what Jesus commands. I’m surprised my fellow Catholics didn’t pick up on this sooner.

Parable of the Rich Young Man Matthew 19: 16-22

16 And behold, one came up to him, saying, “Teacher, what good deed must I do, to have eternal life?” 17 And he said to him, “Why do you ask me about what is good? One there is who is good. If you would enter life, keep the commandments.” 18 He said to him, “Which?” And Jesus said, “You shall not kill, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, 19 Honor your father and mother, and, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 20 The young man said to him, “All these I have observed; what do I still lack?” 21 Jesus said to him, “If **you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.” **22 When the young man heard this he went away sorrowful; for he had great possessions.

We were simply waiting for your reply.
We must remain in Him, as we do not want to become branches which wither and are cut off and thrown into the fire (John 15:6-8). Neither do we want to turn away from the sacred command we have received, and thus be worse off than we were before we heard the Good News (2 Peter 2:20-22).

 

[rev_kevin]

I couldn’t let this go unanswered. There is more to being saved than just belief. Belief is only the starting point. Or maybe a better way to define belief in Jesus is that it means you do what Jesus commands. I’m surprised my fellow Catholics didn’t pick up on this sooner.

Parable of the Rich Young Man Matthew 19: 16-22

16 And behold, one came up to him, saying, “Teacher, what good deed must I do, to have eternal life?” 17 And he said to him, “Why do you ask me about what is good? One there is who is good. If you would enter life, keep the commandments.” 18 He said to him, “Which?” And Jesus said, “You shall not kill, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, 19 Honor your father and mother, and, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 20 The young man said to him, “All these I have observed; what do I still lack?” 21 Jesus said to him, “If **you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.” **22 When the young man heard this he went away sorrowful; for he had great possessions.

We obviously have different beliefs. We believe once saved always saved. What IMO you are talking about is “eternal life” or “salvation.” You are correct if you are talking about eternal life. You can loose eternal life by not keeping the commandments. Once you accept Christ and baptized you are saved, you are a part of the family of God even if you sin and turn from God, he will never leave you, you are saved. I know you will disagree with this like I disagree with your view on this. We can go back and forth on this but we will get nowhere.

 

[po18guy]

We obviously have different beliefs. We believe once saved always saved. What IMO you are talking about is “eternal life” or “salvation.” You are correct if you are talking about eternal life. You can loose eternal life by not keeping the commandments. Once you accept Christ and baptized you are saved, you are a part of the family of God even if you sin and turn from God, he will never leave you, you are saved. I know you will disagree with this like I disagree with your view on this. We can go back and forth on this but we will get nowhere.

Allow me, if you will. We have a relationship with God. This relationship is unique in at least three ways: 1. It covers not only this life, but the next. 2. It will not be altered or broken by God, as His offer always stands and His promises are rock solid. 3. We have sole influence over this relationship by our choices of heart. We can move toward Him, or away from Him.

However, the responsibility for maintaining this relationship is strictly upon us. Sin damages or breaks our relationship with God, by alienating us from Him. We, by our own failures and sinful choices, move away from Him. His offer still stands, as it is eternal. Our acceptance of that offer is not free, and places upon us the requirement to keep our end of the deal up. A one time “Yes” is simply not supported by the entirety of scripture. It was not so with the ancient Hebrews and it is not so with us.

 

[momor]

We obviously have different beliefs. We believe once saved always saved. What IMO you are talking about is “eternal life” or “salvation.” You are correct if you are talking about eternal life. You can loose eternal life by not keeping the commandments. Once you accept Christ and baptized you are saved, you are a part of the family of God even if you sin and turn from God, he will never leave you, you are saved. I know you will disagree with this like I disagree with your view on this. We can go back and forth on this but we will get nowhere.

Thanks for your reply. I guess I am not understanding the distinction you are making between saved and eternal life/salvation.

 

[choy]

very interesting thing my parish priest said about this topic

during Easter Vigil, while the church lights were turned off and only the candles were providing the light, he said that we should hold the candle up high instead of just in front of us like having a personal relationship with the candle. if we hold it up high, the light shines more brightly, and that is the difference between having a personal relationship (1on1), and a faith that is shared to all

 

[rev_kevin]

Allow me, if you will. We have a relationship with God. This relationship is unique in at least three ways: 1. It covers not only this life, but the next. 2. It will not be altered or broken by God, as His offer always stands and His promises are rock solid. 3. We have sole influence over this relationship by our choices of heart. We can move toward Him, or away from Him.

However, the responsibility for maintaining this relationship is strictly upon us. Sin damages or breaks our relationship with God, by alienating us from Him. We, by our own failures and sinful choices, move away from Him. His offer still stands, as it is eternal. Our acceptance of that offer is not free, and places upon us the requirement to keep our end of the deal up. A one time “Yes” is simply not supported by the entirety of scripture. It was not so with the ancient Hebrews and it is not so with us.

Yes we may be alienating ourselves from God but he will never do that to us once we have been saved, so once saved always saved.

 

[mark_a]

i hate the word “personal” in that statement

Ditto.

In our area we had a bank that advertised themselves as “your personal banker”.

 

[mark_a]

A lot of non-Catholics ask: Have you accepted Jesus as YOUR personal Lord and Savior? This question has quite irritated me for quite a while NOT because of the fact that Jesus is my saviour but it stresses that we OWN Jesus… I would like to believe that Jesus IS NOT OURS but WE BELONG TO JESUS!!!

This passage is taken from the bible and I hope all of you can meditate on it!!!

John 15:16
**You did not choose me, but I chose you **and appointed you to go and bear fruit–fruit that will last. Then the Father will give you whatever you ask in my name.

Is the correct response: “Yes I have accepted Him as everyone’s savior”?

 

[Loboto-Me]

Ditto.

In our area we had a bank that advertised themselves as “your personal banker”.

hahahahaha!

 

[Loboto-Me]

very interesting thing my parish priest said about this topic

during Easter Vigil, while the church lights were turned off and only the candles were providing the light, he said that we should hold the candle up high instead of just in front of us like having a personal relationship with the candle. if we hold it up high, the light shines more brightly, and that is the difference between having a personal relationship (1on1), and a faith that is shared to all

That’s a beautiful analogy! So very true

 

[po18guy]

Yes we may be alienating ourselves from God but he will never do that to us once we have been saved, so once saved always saved.

So, is there anything at all you can do to sever your relationship with God and thus, lose your reward?