Have you accepted Jesus as YOUR personal Lord and Saviour???

[TEPO]

Is the correct response: “Yes I have accepted Him as everyone’s savior”?

How about: “Yes I have accepted my Jesus as my own personal savior just like everyone else has their own Jesus.”

As if each one of us gets our own Jesus that we can make into however we want or something.

 

[AmateurPianist]

I agree with you that “receive” is preferable to “accept”, but would differ with your characterization that it is “straining at gnats…”. For me, at least, “accept”, particularly in terms of justification, worries me of pelagianism.

Jon

As I read this thread, it has struck me that y’all should allow those that use this phrase the same courtesy that y’all gripe about when it is not applied to your pet belief or term as it were. And that would be to allow those who use the phrase the courtesy to define what it means as opposed to defining the phrase for them.

(Jon this isn’t directed necessarily at you but more a response to reading this thread as a whole).

Now neither myself or my church happen to use this phrase that often, but at the same time I know folks who do and have attended churches that do. And I think you will find that the verbs “accept” and “receive” are used interchangeably.

And this would be consistent with the English language (I receive a gift … I accept a gift).

So if I accept their say so…(like I accept the Catholic’s say so on comparable phrases…see “Mother of God”) where is the beef.

And yes…it is much easier to nitpick somebody else’s Christianese instead of seeing our own Christianese…hence my comments “straining at gnats”.

 

[TEPO]

As I read this thread, it has struck me that y’all should allow those that use this phrase the same courtesy that y’all gripe about when it is not applied to your pet belief or term as it were. And that would be to allow those who use the phrase the courtesy to define what it means as opposed to defining the phrase for them.

(Jon this isn’t directed necessarily at you but more a response to reading this thread as a whole).

Now neither myself or my church happen to use this phrase that often, but at the same time I know folks who do and have attended churches that do. And I think you will find that the verbs “accept” and “receive” are used interchangeably.

And this would be consistent with the English language (I receive a gift … I accept a gift).

So if I accept their say so…(like I accept the Catholic’s say so on comparable phrases…see “Mother of God”) where is the beef.

And yes…it is much easier to nitpick somebody else’s Christianese instead of seeing our own Christianese…hence my comments “straining at gnats”.

Are you suggesting that this phrase is just the same as the Catholics who “receive” Jesus’ presence in the Eucharist…?

 

[rev_kevin]

So, is there anything at all you can do to sever your relationship with God and thus, lose your reward?

You can sever your relationship with God and loose salvation but he will never sever his relationship with you.

 

[TEPO]

And yes…it is much easier to nitpick somebody else’s Christianese instead of seeing our own Christianese…hence my comments “straining at gnats”.

Oh, yeh… straining at gnats - I get it…

 

[AmateurPianist]

Are you suggesting that this phrase is just the same as the Catholics who “receive” Jesus’ presence in the Eucharist…?

Could be. I honestly don’t know.

Usually when I have heard the phrase used it is in the sense of initially receiving Christ. But at the same time I think it is important to daily receive Him into my life. So maybe to y’all this is a part of the daily process.

Anyway it is not my assignment to judge other organizations that are not mine. I would do well to make sure I keep my own nose clean thank you.

 

[momor]

You can sever your relationship with God and loose salvation but he will never sever his relationship with you.

Rev Kevin,
What is your distinction between saved and eternal life? How can you lose one but not the other?

 

[angelic06]

Q1: Have you accepted Jesus as your personal Lord and Saviour?

Q2: Do you believe that if you were to die right now, you will go straight to heaven?

If you answered “Yes” to both questions, Hallelujah! you are saved! (according to some Christians)

The second question smacks straight of hubris and is unknowable by us whether it will occur or not. I detest it.

 

[po18guy]

You can sever your relationship with God and loose salvation but he will never sever his relationship with you.

Fair enough.

 

[rev_kevin]

Rev Kevin,
What is your distinction between saved and eternal life? How can you lose one but not the other?

Once you accept Christ and baptized you are saved, God will always be with you no matter what, you are saved. But you can turn from God and loose eternal life. Being saved is always with you but not salvation or eternal life.

 

[regression]

Once you accept Christ and baptized you are saved, God will always be with you no matter what, you are saved. But you can turn from God and loose eternal life. Being saved is always with you but not salvation or eternal life.

So would it be fair to say there are some people in hell who are not saved and some that are saved (those baptized but who later turned away from God)?

 

[brb3]

In both (John 6:44) and (John 6:65), Jesus says that “no man CAN come” to Jesus except that the Father draws or gives the necessary saving faith in Jesus to actually come.

I can not see how you can explain away the “no man CAN” part of (John 6:44, and 65). You simply can’t, if you insist on our “free will” being a determining factor in our salvation.
Please explain away “no man CAN” in those verses using your “free-will” determination. The standard “It’s a mystery.” answer won’t cut it in my understanding.

John 6:44-51 "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day. It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught by God.’ Every one who has heard and learned from the Father comes to me. Not that any one has seen the Father except him who is from God; he has seen the Father. Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life. I am the bread of life. … I am the the living bread which came down from heaven; if any one eats of this bread, he will live for ever; and the bread which I shall give for the life of the world is my flesh. "

Where does the above teach negation of ‘free will’ ?

We must WILLINGLY desire to be ‘taught’ by God. Only those who hear & ‘willingly’ LEARN … will seek out Christ. When we believe in Christ, we must ‘willingly’ PARTAKE of his body … to receive atonement from sins. And, as Paul teaches in his Epistle … it’s not enough to ‘robotically’ partake, but one must ‘rightly’ receive the Eucharist — [in faith & expressing true contrition for sins].

Finally, we must ‘workout our salvation with fear and trembling’ — PERSEVERING til our Last Day, by abiding in Christ. [says Paul] & also see Romans 2:6 “For he will render to every man ACCORDING TO HIS WORKS: to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and IMMORTALITY, he will GIVE ETERNAL LIFE; …”

Baptism, Confirmation, and the Eucharist … give us the initial grace to be Reborn to God, by Christ the Son, via the H.S. … and the subsequent graces to persevere IN CHRIST.

 

[tsering]

Have I accepted Jesus as MY personal Lord and Savior???

Yes. My relationship with Jesus is both very personal and corporate. It is a personal relationship because He is both my Lord and Savior, even in the times when I find myself alone and tempted to sin, He is then my Lord when I submit my will to Him and my Savior when He rescues me from temptation. This in no way means to me, that He is owned by me or defined by my own will. On the contrary, He owns me, has created me, and has bought me with a price and through the work of His Holy Spirit He shapes my will.

Of course this doesn’t exclude the fact that He is also the Lord and Savior of the world, but we must not forget that the world is collectively made of individuals and some individuals do reject Him, and some individuals do accept Him. We see this in the parable of the wheat and tares in Matthew 13:30. In many of Jesus’ parables, He talked of both individuals and groups responding to God. God saves individuals, groups, tribes, nations, the Church…it’s a multifaceted revelation - like a diamond - a precious jewel that I would sell all for. And to answer the arguments about predestination or free will…even the ability to have a free will comes from God our Creator - “For of him, and through him, and unto him, are all things. To him be the glory for ever. Amen. !” - Romans 11:33-36

I don’t think Catholics disagree with this. In fact read:
“Without a personal relationship with Jesus Christ and active communion with other men we will not stay “sober”.” - A quote from Ignite Catholic Men’s Conference (www.ignitecatholicmen.org). And I suggest watching the video clip labeled “God’s Chisel” - a very convicting message about our individual response to God and His work in our personal lives.

Now, I do have to add that a personal and right relationship with Christ, means that you will have a right relationship with the members of Christ’s Body - This is very clear in Scripture. In fact, that is why someone like me, who has experienced Jesus as my Lord and Savior is looking to join with the rest of the members (both in heaven and earth) for I believe in one Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. The more I know Jesus, the more I want to draw closer to my brothers and sisters in true communion.

Now, in defense of the question, I know from experience that a lot of protestants are asking this phrase because they have personally met a lot of “christians” from different denominations, even their own churches, who claim to be “christians” but do not seem to be living as such…sad to say, but very true. They’re pretty much asking, “Do you know Jesus in every moment of your life, even when you’re alone and no one is looking? Or are you just coming to Church and putting on a mask? Because Jesus wants to be Lord and Savior of every aspect of your life and He wants you to personally respond, not because someone else coerced you.” This of course doesn’t exclude the fact that God uses others in your life to turn you to Him - but you’re still turning to Him none the less.

When I turned my life over to Christ, I repented of and stopped doing a lot of sinful ignorant things which at one time even led to felony charges. After writing a letter about how Christ saves us from sin to some family members, I received a letter back, to my surprise, from some family members who claimed to be “christian” stating that they liked me better the way I was and that I was being brain washed. Of course I was being brain washed - by the Holy Spirit. What “christian” would want their relative to be a convicted felon and a sinner even worse? So with that said, there are many who do the “works” of being a Christian, but have no “faith” to back them up. If I have this right, salvation is by both “works” and “faith” for one without the other is dead.

I do have to admit, being an ex-protestant myself, that if the question is directed at Catholics…it can be loaded with prejudice, because many protestants, including myself at some point questioned whether Catholics really knew Jesus personally or if they were just going through some man-made hijacked religious mockery of what Jesus originally intended to set up, just like the Pharisees of Jesus’ day - who could quote the entire Torah, “strain gnats”, and added so much more details to the Law that it became a burden and they forgot what the original intent of the Law was to the point that they couldn’t even recognize their Messiah when He finally came. I think the Pharisees had works without faith.

But the more I get to know Catholics, the more I see that this prejudice is not true, because I have met many who have a vibrant personal and corporate relationship with Jesus - In fact the two are not separable. The two greatest commandments sum it up and St. John says, “We love, because he first loved us. If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, cannot love God whom he hath not seen. And this commandment have we from him, that he who loveth God love his brother also.”

When I think of one who has had a personal relationship with Jesus, I think of Mary - the Mother of God - how personal can it get? He was not only her Lord and Savior, He was her Son! Isn’t that why so many Catholics honor and venerate her, because she had and still has such an intimate relationship with Jesus? Are we not supposed to imitate the saints? Is Mary not the greatest of saints?

Catholics, you need to show other Christians that Jesus is at the center of every aspect of your life and every relationship you engage in. In this way you can invite them to have a relationship with Jesus in the context that He originally established - The one Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.

Peace

 

[rev_kevin]

So would it be fair to say there are some people in hell who are not saved and some that are saved (those baptized but who later turned away from God)?

Yes

 

[momor]

Once you accept Christ and baptized you are saved, God will always be with you no matter what, you are saved. But you can turn from God and loose eternal life. Being saved is always with you but not salvation or eternal life.

Thanks for clarifying. I always thought once saved always saved meant you could never lose heaven no matter what you did. I know there are many others on this forum with the same view as mine. I wonder where we got the idea.

 

[brkn1]

John 6:44-51 "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day. It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught by God.’ Every one who has heard and learned from the Father comes to me. Not that any one has seen the Father except him who is from God; he has seen the Father. Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life. I am the bread of life. … I am the the living bread which came down from heaven; if any one eats of this bread, he will live for ever; and the bread which I shall give for the life of the world is my flesh. "

Where does the above teach negation of ‘free will’ ?

The verses you quote from the bible are not that relevant in answering my question about Jesus twice saying, “No man CAN come to Me” except the Father draw him. These verses most definitely negate the idea of a sinner making his own “free-will” decision to come to Christ.

I would like to stay in the same chapter 6 of John to quote relevant verses:

v 37 “All that the Father giveth Me shall come to Me; and him that cometh to Me I will in no wise cast out.”

v 30 “And this is the Father’s will which hath sent Me, that of all which He hath given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.”

v 44 “No man can come to Me, except the Father which hath sent Me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.”

v 45 “…Every man therefore that hath heard, and learned of the Father, cometh to Me.”
(We see in this verse the requirement that only those taught by the Father can come.)

v 65 “And He said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto Me, except it were given unto him of my Father.”

I would like to add some more negation to the free-willers here.

(Romans 9:15) “For He saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.”
16 “So then (it is) NOT of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth (worketh), but of God that sheweth mercy.”

You might use human wisdom and reasoning to refute God’s words here, but they still stand and they refute the idea that your own free will can save you. Salvation is strictly God’s work according to His will only.

 

[rayne89]

I’m going to use the old Catholic standby. Where is the word “trinity” in the Bible? Its not but we use the word anyway without support from verses. Show me where it says in the Bible that “infants are to be baptized.” It doesn’t but its done anyway. So your point is?

The difference is Catholics have Sacred Scripture, Sacred Tradition and the Magisterium (teaching authority of the Catholic Church) - for us the words don’t have to be in the Bible. The Church gave us the Bible, it constructed the Bible and had the authority to decide which books would be contained in it. I assume since your are Baptist you believe in “the Bible alone.” You have no other authority except the Bible so it must be in the Bible. What you believe must be in the Bible because you claim that is all that is needed, we as Catholics do not claim that.

 

[AmateurPianist]

What you believe must be in the Bible because you claim that is all that is needed, we as Catholics do not claim that.

Just one comment on this sentence.

A while back I started a thread “What is Sola Scriptura”?

There were about 8 different definitions.

This sentence is only an attribute of the most extreme definition. It is the one held by “Church of Christ”.

Yet whenever the topic is broached it is as though this sentence is the official definition.

Why?

I suggest educating yourself on the topic before you spout mischaracterizations that are just not true like “you claim that is all that is needed”.

 

[LilyM]

In (John 3:16), Jesus says “that whosoever believeth in Him (Christ) should not perish, but have everlasting life.”
In both (John 6:44) and (John 6:65), Jesus says that “no man CAN come” to Jesus except that the Father draws or gives the necessary saving faith in Jesus to actually come.
I see no contradiction here. We have the requirement of Who we must believe in to be saved along with the requirement of God’s gift of also being drawn by God to that saving faith in Jesus.
I can not see how you can explain away the “no man CAN” part of (John 6:44, and 65). You simply can’t, if you insist on our “free will” being a determining factor in our salvation.
Please explain away “no man CAN” in those verses using your “free-will” determination. The standard “It’s a mystery.” answer won’t cut it in my understanding.

Let’s draw an analogy - I’ll begin with the proposition that ‘no man can be a father unless God draw him to be one’. True in as far as it goes, but not the complete truth.

God can draw the man to the vocation all He wants, that on its own is NOT enough to make the man a father.

The man has to exert his free will in creating the child - choosing a willing female partner, ensuring that neither of them use contraception, ensuring that the child is brought to term rather than being aborted.

He then has to exert his free will in accepting the role of father to that child - ie choosing to acknowledge paternity and support the child financially and in other ways. He could easily refuse to acknowledge biological paternity, refuse to pay child support, could insist on the child being given up for adoption and so on.

Only when man’s use of his free will coincides with the prompting of God’s Holy Spirit (which is the ‘drawing’) is God’s will actually accomplished. For if man could never refuse God’s drawing, then there would be no such thing as sin. God surely draws all men towards salvation, which is His will for them, draws them away from sin and damnation.

And yet not only do sin and damnation still happen, those who commit it are punished for it. Why would Hell be a place of weeping and gnashing of teeth (as Christ promises) - a place of punishment - if those who are there are there purely because God drew them there? Would they not rather enjoy being there?

 

[brb3]

My relationship with Jesus is both very personal and corporate. It is a personal relationship because He is both my Lord and Savior, even in the times when I find myself alone and tempted to sin, He is then my Lord when I submit my will to Him and my Savior when He rescues me from temptation. This in no way means to me, that He is owned by me or defined by my own will. On the contrary, He owns me, has created me, and has bought me with a price and through the work of His Holy Spirit He shapes my will.

Of course this doesn’t exclude the fact that He is also the Lord and Savior of the world, but we must not forget that the world is collectively made of individuals and some individuals do reject Him, and some individuals do accept Him. We see this in the parable of the wheat and tares in Matthew 13:30. In many of Jesus’ parables, He talked of both individuals and groups responding to God. God saves individuals, groups, tribes, nations, the Church…it’s a multifaceted revelation - like a diamond - a precious jewel that I would sell all for. And to answer the arguments about predestination or free will…even the ability to have a free will comes from God our Creator - “For of him, and through him, and unto him, are all things. To him be the glory for ever. Amen. !” - Romans 11:33-36

I don’t think Catholics disagree with this. In fact read:
“Without a personal relationship with Jesus Christ and active communion with other men we will not stay “sober”.” - A quote from Ignite Catholic Men’s Conference (www.ignitecatholicmen.org). And I suggest watching the video clip labeled “God’s Chisel” - a very convicting message about our individual response to God and His work in our personal lives.

Now, I do have to add that a personal and right relationship with Christ, means that you will have a right relationship with the members of Christ’s Body - This is very clear in Scripture. In fact, that is why someone like me, who has experienced Jesus as my Lord and Savior is looking to join with the rest of the members (both in heaven and earth) for I believe in one Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. The more I know Jesus, the more I want to draw closer to my brothers and sisters in true communion.

Now, in defense of the question, I know from experience that a lot of protestants are asking this phrase because they have personally met a lot of “christians” from different denominations, even their own churches, who claim to be “christians” but do not seem to be living as such…sad to say, but very true. They’re pretty much asking, “Do you know Jesus in every moment of your life, even when you’re alone and no one is looking? Or are you just coming to Church and putting on a mask? Because Jesus wants to be Lord and Savior of every aspect of your life and He wants you to personally respond, not because someone else coerced you.” This of course doesn’t exclude the fact that God uses others in your life to turn you to Him - but you’re still turning to Him none the less.

When I turned my life over to Christ, I repented of and stopped doing a lot of sinful ignorant things which at one time even led to felony charges. After writing a letter about how Christ saves us from sin to some family members, I received a letter back, to my surprise, from some family members who claimed to be “christian” stating that they liked me better the way I was and that I was being brain washed. Of course I was being brain washed - by the Holy Spirit. What “christian” would want their relative to be a convicted felon and a sinner even worse? So with that said, there are many who do the “works” of being a Christian, but have no “faith” to back them up. If I have this right, salvation is by both “works” and “faith” for one without the other is dead.

I do have to admit, being an ex-protestant myself, that if the question is directed at Catholics…it can be loaded with prejudice, because many protestants, including myself at some point questioned whether Catholics really knew Jesus personally or if they were just going through some man-made hijacked religious mockery of what Jesus originally intended to set up, just like the Pharisees of Jesus’ day - who could quote the entire Torah, “strain gnats”, and added so much more details to the Law that it became a burden and they forgot what the original intent of the Law was to the point that they couldn’t even recognize their Messiah when He finally came. I think the Pharisees had works without faith.

But the more I get to know Catholics, the more I see that this prejudice is not true, because I have met many who have a vibrant personal and corporate relationship with Jesus - In fact the two are not separable. The two greatest commandments sum it up and St. John says, “We love, because he first loved us. If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, cannot love God whom he hath not seen. And this commandment have we from him, that he who loveth God love his brother also.”

Catholics, you need to show other Christians that Jesus is at the center of every aspect of your life and every relationship you engage in. In this way you can invite them to have a relationship with Jesus in the context that He originally established - The one Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.

A TRUE CATHOLIC heart ! While many are ‘initially’ saved outside the Church, it is Christ’s desire that they learn/enjoy perseverance THRU the Church he established upon Peter. Find the Church that has PERSEVERED from day 1 … that is the Church established by the Lord.