Have you ever gotten in trouble at your parish for doing what's right?

[rpp]

So, you freely admit that your actions were INTENDED to be uncharitable, which makes you a good Catholic or Christian in what way?

Were you attempting to illustrate the example set forth to us by Christ?

Father, with respect, I disagree with your assessment. Or at least say that it may be premature.

It could well be argued that the OP was imitating Christ.

I would like to point out that Christ Himself fashioned a whip and drove money-changers from the Temple with it, overturning their tables as He went. I believe He also shouted at them as He chased them out. If that happened in the USA today, it is likely that a SWAT Team would be called.

I do not believe Christ lost control. Nor do I believe His actions were intended to be uncharitable. He did, however, intend to create a scene and made an important point. It was a lesson that was not forgotten by the Pharisees. I am certain there is a reason why this event is preserved in the Gospels.

Being angry and acting in anger are very different. Creating a scene to make a point may not be uncharitable. If the intent is to reinforce the message that respect for the Blessed Sacrament must never be compromised, this would certainly be a memorable way to do.

On the other hand, few people can pull off such an action well and remain (internally) calm. I do not believe, based on what I have read, that I can determine whether the original poster was being uncharitable or not.

I would like to add that it is never right to do an evil act, even when the intended outcome is good. At the same time, we are also called upon to correct those in error.

 

[Heckesh]

So, you freely admit that your actions were INTENDED to be uncharitable, which makes you a good Catholic or Christian in what way?

Were you attempting to illustrate the example set forth to us by Christ?

My actions were not uncharitable.

While I deeply appreciate “rpp’s” erudite comments above let me just say this.

Far too often we define what is “charitable” based on the secular/cultural expectations of our surroundings. What may not be “charitable” in a particularly genteel part of Connecticut might well be “charitable” in a gritty part of the Bronx.

 

[jrabs]

This thread brings out a very interesting matter.

The notion that a practice is OK because “everyone” or “many others” do it. It is so very sad to see people actually type that sort of response.

No, it’s not OK to leave the tabernacle open (unless it’s empty of the Blessed Sacrament. No it’s not OK to leave the key in the tabernacle.

Again, just because others do it does not make it OK.

Many posts have NOT said that.
But the method you selected to reprimand was not appropriate. It is not acceptable to treat others that way. You appear proud of your method - that seems to be the flavor I am picking up from your post.

By the way - your priest asked you to apologize. Did you obediently?

 

[Heckesh]

Many posts have NOT said that.
But the method you selected to reprimand was not appropriate. It is not acceptable to treat others that way. You appear proud of your method - that seems to be the flavor I am picking up from your post.

By the way - your priest asked you to apologize. Did you obediently?

Nope, not proud of what I did. But very thankful of the product.

I’m not actually sure if you read my postings, but the priest never suggested I apologize to anyone. He apologized to me for having the Blessed Sacrament treated in that manner.

 

[jrabs]

Nope, not proud of what I did. But very thankful of the product.

I’m not actually sure if you read my postings, but the priest never suggested I apologize to anyone. He apologized to me for having the Blessed Sacrament treated in that manner.

Oh then my apology.

 

[Cat]

To the OP:

You’re a MAN?! I didn’t get that impression from your initial post.

Do you know anything about women?

Real men don’t raise their voices and slam things around women (or children). It is a form of violence against us. It’s frightening. I would probably have started crying, and there’s a darn good chance that I never, ever would have returned to that church.

The Lord Jesus told us that love is the greatest virtue of all. Even if we have all the knowledge in the universe and faith to move mountains, but have no love, all that “knowledge” profits us NOTHING! I Corinthians 13.

To paraphrase, your knowledge of GIRM and Sancrosanct and all the other documents of rubrics and liturgy means NOTHING if you don’t practice love.

Love is NOT raising your voice and slamming things. Love is using a gentle voice and being kind and not presenting a “show of force” by slamming things. Love would seek to understand why the person was committing an irreverent act against Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament (e.g., was the person improperly taught?). Love would seek to correct the action but validate and lift up the actor.

Love would not come to this board and defend unloving actions against a member of the weaker sex.

And it doesn’t matter if you are five feet tall and 98 pounds, and she was six feet tall and 200+ pounds! She’s still a woman and therefore, a member of the weaker sex according to the Bible. You’re supposed to protect women, not attack them.

We should follow the guidelines that God Himself gives us–LOVE one another. By following those guidelines, you will see abuses corrected. By going outside of those guidelines and making up your own rules about how to treat people, you may or may not correct abuses, but you will certainly drive people away from the Church. Follow GOD’s rules, not yours.

 

[Magnum_V8]

No, I haven’t gotten in trouble, BUT I’M TRYING!!!

Only my family and I kneel during the Eucharistic prayer, I respond in Latin, I don’t hold my hands up during the Lord’s prayer, I receive only on the tongue and only from the priest, I genuflect whenever I get in and out of the pew, I don’t clap for anything --even for the newly commissioned EMHC’s or the choir, lately I haven’t been participating in the hymns —the choir’s good enough, my family and I pray either the Rosary or Divine Mercy chaplet before Mass aloud --but not loud enough to drown out the chit-chatting, we say thanksgiving prayers after Mass instead of rushing around saying “Hey!” to everyone…

I’m an usher, and two ushers are expected to “direct the Communion line traffic”, i.e., from the back to the front. When its only me and one other usher, I don’t do it; I stay in my pew…

I’m also an altar server. Whenever I carry something in one hand, I put my other hand over my heart. I also ring the altar bells very loudly. Although one person did compliment me on that: and I know what you’re thinking, but, NO, it wasn’t my wife. Now I’m going to have to tell them not to schedule me for anything on the 2nd and 4th Sundays of the month. Another nearby parish will be offering a Tridentine High Mass those days, and one of those days I’ll be serving at that Mass.

So, in a nutshell, I guess I would like to “get in trouble” just to give me an excuse to say “farewell” to this parish and join a traditional, orthodox parish.

 

[Heckesh]

To the OP:

You’re a MAN?! I didn’t get that impression from your initial post.

Do you know anything about women?

Real men don’t raise their voices and slam things around women (or children). It is a form of violence against us. It’s frightening. I would probably have started crying, and there’s a darn good chance that I never, ever would have returned to that church.

The Lord Jesus told us that love is the greatest virtue of all. Even if we have all the knowledge in the universe and faith to move mountains, but have no love, all that “knowledge” profits us NOTHING! I Corinthians 13.

To paraphrase, your knowledge of GIRM and Sancrosanct and all the other documents of rubrics and liturgy means NOTHING if you don’t practice love.

Love is NOT raising your voice and slamming things. Love is using a gentle voice and being kind and not presenting a “show of force” by slamming things. Love would seek to understand why the person was committing an irreverent act against Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament (e.g., was the person improperly taught?). Love would seek to correct the action but validate and lift up the actor.

Love would not come to this board and defend unloving actions against a member of the weaker sex.

And it doesn’t matter if you are five feet tall and 98 pounds, and she was six feet tall and 200+ pounds! She’s still a woman and therefore, a member of the weaker sex according to the Bible. You’re supposed to protect women, not attack them.

We should follow the guidelines that God Himself gives us–LOVE one another. By following those guidelines, you will see abuses corrected. By going outside of those guidelines and making up your own rules about how to treat people, you may or may not correct abuses, but you will certainly drive people away from the Church. Follow GOD’s rules, not yours.

Aha! Now the gender angle! Bravo! I wasn’t expecting that.

This thread has proven to be educational to me. I’m amused by the number of people condemning my action while judging me (a rather odd combination.)

What this thread has done in the positive is to shine a bit of light on yet another reason the Church is in the shape she is in today in the USA.

 

[jmcrae]

What, you afraid somebody is gonna sneak some of the Blessed Sacrement?

Vandalism against the Blessed Sacrament is an initiation ritual in some neo-pagan religions, and also in some gangs. If it became commonly known that the key is left in the Tabernacle with no one around at such and such time of day in this or that Catholic Church - well, absolutely anything could happen.

 

[jmcrae]

Aha! Now the gender angle! Bravo! I wasn’t expecting that.

This thread has proven to be educational to me. I’m amused by the number of people condemning my action while judging me (a rather odd combination.)

Are they screaming in your face, and throwing things around? Do you feel physically threatened?

What this thread has done in the positive is to shine a bit of light on yet another reason the Church is in the shape she is in today in the USA.

Yes - yes, it is.

When the face of traditional Catholicism is an angry, screaming face, is it any wonder that people opt to put liberals in positions of authority? They may not follow the teachings of the Church, but they sure are easier to work with.

 

[Heckesh]

No, I haven’t gotten in trouble, BUT I’M TRYING!!!

Only my family and I kneel during the Eucharistic prayer, I respond in Latin, I don’t hold my hands up during the Lord’s prayer, I receive only on the tongue and only from the priest, I genuflect whenever I get in and out of the pew, I don’t clap for anything --even for the newly commissioned EMHC’s or the choir, lately I haven’t been participating in the hymns —the choir’s good enough, my family and I pray either the Rosary or Divine Mercy chaplet before Mass aloud --but not loud enough to drown out the chit-chatting, we say thanksgiving prayers after Mass instead of rushing around saying “Hey!” to everyone…

I’m an usher, and two ushers are expected to “direct the Communion line traffic”, i.e., from the back to the front. When its only me and one other usher, I don’t do it; I stay in my pew…

I’m also an altar server. Whenever I carry something in one hand, I put my other hand over my heart. I also ring the altar bells very loudly. Although one person did compliment me on that: and I know what you’re thinking, but, NO, it wasn’t my wife. Now I’m going to have to tell them not to schedule me for anything on the 2nd and 4th Sundays of the month. Another nearby parish will be offering a Tridentine High Mass those days, and one of those days I’ll be serving at that Mass.

So, in a nutshell, I guess I would like to “get in trouble” just to give me an excuse to say “farewell” to this parish and join a traditional, orthodox parish.

You must be very proud…

 

[Heckesh]

Are they screaming in your face, and throwing things around? Do you feel physically threatened?

More amused than anything…

Who screamed or threw things around by the way?

When the face of traditional Catholicism is an angry, screaming face, is it any wonder that people opt to put liberals in positions of authority? They may not follow the teachings of the Church, but they sure are easier to work with.

I am not sure what “traditional” and “liberal” have to do with this thread. I am in no way a “traditional Catholic” – I strive to be an orthodox Catholic though.

However I will say in the last 40 years or so of the Church, what many would term “liberals” have been ruthless at pushing their often dissenting agendas. (I could tell another story or two right now but it might upset too many.) On the other hand, most traditionalists over that period seem to have been rather apathetic – else how did the Church get to where it is today?

I have no question in my mind whatsoever that if “traditionalists” fought with the level of resolve demonstrated by the “liberals” over the last 40 years that the Church would be in far better shape today. At least there would have been some level of check and balance.

 

[PaixGioiaAmor]

Frankly when it comes to the Blessed Sacrament, I would have gladly taken you up on your threat.

You will know them by their works …

What a great Christian witness BOTH of you would be.

 

[jmcrae]

Who screamed or threw things around by the way?

Are you now denying that you did, after boasting about it for 5 pages, now?

 

[Walking_Home]

Ah, you beat me to it. Yes, the SIGN VALUE is huge during the Mass. That’s the very reason we are encouraged to receive Holy Communion under both species.

These little things really add-up after a while.

For a sacristan to stick the key in the tabernacle and have it there during the Mass is very bad sign value. I really have no idea why anyone would do it, except to make things a tiny bit easier for themselves. Even leaving it on the credence next to the sacred vessels would be far, far better from a sign value standpoint.

---

Except – when it comes to communion under both species – it can have the opposite affect. In the wrong hands – it can undermine our doctrine that Christ is whole and entire in each individual species–and absolutely nothing lacks by receiving one species.

 

[Walking_Home]

To the OP:

You’re a MAN?! I didn’t get that impression from your initial post.

Do you know anything about women?

Real men don’t raise their voices and slam things around women (or children). It is a form of violence against us. It’s frightening. I would probably have started crying, and there’s a darn good chance that I never, ever would have returned to that church.

The Lord Jesus told us that love is the greatest virtue of all. Even if we have all the knowledge in the universe and faith to move mountains, but have no love, all that “knowledge” profits us NOTHING! I Corinthians 13.

To paraphrase, your knowledge of GIRM and Sancrosanct and all the other documents of rubrics and liturgy means NOTHING if you don’t practice love.

Love is NOT raising your voice and slamming things. Love is using a gentle voice and being kind and not presenting a “show of force” by slamming things. Love would seek to understand why the person was committing an irreverent act against Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament (e.g., was the person improperly taught?). Love would seek to correct the action but validate and lift up the actor.

Love would not come to this board and defend unloving actions against a member of the weaker sex.

And it doesn’t matter if you are five feet tall and 98 pounds, and she was six feet tall and 200+ pounds! She’s still a woman and therefore, a member of the weaker sex according to the Bible. You’re supposed to protect women, not attack them.

We should follow the guidelines that God Himself gives us–LOVE one another. By following those guidelines, you will see abuses corrected. By going outside of those guidelines and making up your own rules about how to treat people, you may or may not correct abuses, but you will certainly drive people away from the Church. Follow GOD’s rules, not yours.

---

You know Cat – I believe you do women a disservice by denoting them as some type of weaker sex.

 

[Brother_John]

I would like to point out that Christ Himself fashioned a whip and drove money-changers from the Temple with it, overturning their tables as He went. I believe He also shouted at them as He chased them out. If that happened in the USA today, it is likely that a SWAT Team would be called.

Driving moneychangers out of the temple and verbally abusing a EMHC while implying violence are quite different.

Christ was driving moneychangers “out of his Father’s house”

OP may THINK that they’re Christ, but it’s highly unlikely.

Personally, I have never attended a Catholic Church that DIDN’T leave the key in the tabernacle prior to, between, or immediately after Masses.

I guess the OP would have a stroke if they knew that on occasion, I have done maintenance on tabernacle mechanisms.

 

[jmcrae]

You know Cat – I believe you do women a disservice by denoting them as some type of weaker sex.

I agree. I strongly believe that it would be equally unacceptable to treat a man that way, too.

 

[Father_Tom]

How unfortunate, that one self-classified as an “Orthodox” Catholic would see fit to accost a servant of the Church in that way, and then defiantly expound their pride in doing so.

To defend such behavior in the name of Catholicism, is to be quite candid, very non-Catholic, and undoubtedly non-Christian.

Perhaps a review of the terms “Ira”, and “Superbia” are in order.

I now leave this thread, so that you may have the last word to defend your violence against the HMC.

Fr T

 

[Walking_Home]

Originally Posted by Walking_Home View Post
You know Cat – I believe you do women a disservice by denoting them as some type of weaker sex.

I agree. I strongly believe that it would be equally unacceptable to treat a man that way, too.

---

Maybe if the man was some weak-kneed individual – who could not hand the situation.