Have you ever gotten in trouble at your parish for doing what's right?

[Walking_Home]

uote:
Originally Posted by Walking_Home
The way I understood --the OP was relating the idea of communion under both species (“fuller” sign) to the information I had posted. I brought up the danger that it can pose to our doctrine. Leading to where communion via one species as being less than full.

No, no. I used communion under both species as an example of “sign value.”

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It seems the “sign value” of communion under both species is the “fuller” sign.

 

[Walking_Home]

Yes. It’s not been a pretty experience, but, if I had to do it all over again, I would without batting a mascara-laden eyelash.

There are some things that are worth fighting for, like Rhett told Scarlett. The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is my Tara.

My dad is having his share of woes. His pastor refused to go administer Last Rites to six dying residents of a senior citizens home (located across the street from the church). My dad repeatedly asked his pastor to visit these elderly folks. The pastor never did and they died (mind you, it wasn’t a lump sum–it was sporadic). My dad learned that he never went through the members of the deceaseds’ families. He had also asked his pastor to visit the senior citizens’ home to administer the Sacrament of Penance to the shut-ins so that they could have the opportunity for confession. He never went. The elderly petitioned the pastor to have another priest come in his place to celebrate Mass at their retirement home. He refused.

My father wrote him a letter listing all of his concerns and all of the other abuses committed in the parish (including the pastor singing kiddie songs in lieu of the penitential rite–and, while doing so, walking around with a portable mike and shoving it under a kid’s chin to get them to sing). The pastor went billigerent. My dad then sent a certified letter to the bishop. In the two months since he has sent his letter, there has been no response.

He has since taken his complaint to the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments.

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I am very sad and horrified after reading what happened. It is unconscionable for a priest to abandon them in their time of need.

 

[benedictgal]

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I am very sad and horrified after reading what happened. It is unconscionable for a priest to abandon them in their time of need.

My dad is still very upset. He is talking to a priest in a neighboring parish to see how the elderly can best be served. Please pray for both my dad and the senior citizens home residents.

His pastor, for his part, has been telling people that my dad left him. My dad tendered his resignation because he couldn’t stand the abuse. But, he remains in contact with the senior citizens and is trying to find a way to get them the pastoral care they need. Our bishop, however, has not sent a reply nor has he even acknowledged the letter.

 

[Heckesh]

…I would then ask… where are we encouraged to do that? It certainly could not be with an understanding that communion is then “more complete”.

Not encouraged per se, but:

GIRM 281. "Holy Communion has a fuller form as a sign when it is distributed under both kinds. For in this form the sign of the eucharistic banquet is more clearly evident and clear expression is given to the divine will by which the new and eternal Covenant is ratified in the Blood of the Lord, as also the relationship between the Eucharistic banquet and the eschatological banquet in the Father’s Kingdom."

I can use all the “sign” I can get my hands on, personally.

 

[MrS]

Not encouraged per se, but:

GIRM 281. "Holy Communion has a fuller form as a sign when it is distributed under both kinds. For in this form the sign of the eucharistic banquet is more clearly evident and clear expression is given to the divine will by which the new and eternal Covenant is ratified in the Blood of the Lord, as also the relationship between the Eucharistic banquet and the eschatological banquet in the Father’s Kingdom."

I can use all the “sign” I can get my hands on, personally.

I guess we could read that differently. I see the word “sign” and accept it at that. But I do not see …"…has a fuller form as the Real Presence when it is…"

A good dose of catechises in this case would certainly be a fuller sign of the Theology of the Real Presence…

 

[jmcrae]

We all face anger at some point in our lives. We get passed it.

“Past” it - - yes, we do. And we can take their advice and learn from it. But do we remember those people as mentors and friends? Personally, I don’t. I remember I had a boss whose concept of “training” was to yell at me, throw things, and put me down every day.

Did I learn the job? Yes.

Did I respect him? No. I got out of that job as soon as I had enough experience in that field of work to be able to consider other options.

 

[Brendan]

I can use all the “sign” I can get my hands on, personally.

Remember what a sign is, it points to a greater reality.

For example, a road sign indentifies and points towards, the road it signifies.

But we must be very careful not to confuse the sign with the substance.

A road sign is never the road, it cannot substitute for the road. And when one has obtained the ‘road’ and is sure one has the road, the sign has little meaning.

If one has the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Christ already in one species, and the person has full knowledge of this, the sign offered in both speices gives the person nothing they do not have already.

 

[Walking_Home]

“Past” it - - yes, we do. And we can take their advice and learn from it. But do we remember those people as mentors and friends? Personally, I don’t. I remember I had a boss whose concept of “training” was to yell at me, throw things, and put me down every day.

Did I learn the job? Yes.

Did I respect him? No. I got out of that job as soon as I had enough experience in that field of work to be able to consider other options.

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I do not believe the OP said he threw the key, and yelled. Or that he had the habit of doing such on a daily basis. So there really is no comparison between the OP’s instance – to the continual actions of your ex-boss.

 

[jrabs]

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I do not believe the OP said he threw the key, and yelled. Or that he had the habit of doing such on a daily basis. So there really is no comparison between the OP’s instance – to the continual actions of your ex-boss.

No - perhaps not. But the OP’s actions were aggresive and rude. Why are we sugar coating such?

And this thread is about the OP, no?

 

[Walking_Home]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Walking_Home View Post
I do not believe the OP said he threw the key, and yelled. Or that he had the habit of doing such on a daily basis. So there really is no comparison between the OP’s instance – to the continual actions of your ex-boss.

No - perhaps not. But the OP’s actions were aggresive and rude. Why are we sugar coating such?

And this thread is about the OP, no?

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As opposed to sugar coating people—who apparently now need to be handled with kid gloves. Yup – lets continue down this road–and not prepare anyone to handle the ups and downs that life brings.

 

[lovesMary]

Have you ever gotten in trouble at your parish for doing what’s right? I have, more than once.

One time in particular stands out. 15 minutes before Mass I’m just about the only person in church when a senior EMHC (a EMHC “Mass Leader” with supposedly a great deal of training) came out to check the number of consecrated hosts in the tabernacle. After checking she walks away with the tabernacle wide open and the key in it! What the heck? Colossal senior moment? Sleep walking? They had taken to leaving the key in the tabernacle a few weeks earlier (and one of us would always remove it and put in in the sanctuary on the credence), but this was way over the top.

Reverently I locked the tabernacle and removed the key. I walked into the sacristy and instruct the EMHC that the tabernacle should never be left open, unlocked and/or with the key in it. She glared at me and hissed “that was on purpose! It makes things easier during Mass!”

I replied by slamming-down the key harshly on the counter and saying “Don’t you EVER treat the Blessed Sacrament as you just did! Not ever!” With that I walked out of the sacristy.

I received the obligatory phone call from my pastor early that week, apologizing for what happened but that I needed to be more tactful in such situations and that I scared the woman. Thankfully the call ended there. 4-5 people “quit” being EMsHC because I was “not punished.”

Would I change a thing? Nope. To this day it has never repeated.

It sounds like your pastor handled it perfectly. You were wrong to slam the key down like that. On the other hand, the EMHC’s were immature to quit enmass like that. The only mature one sounds like your pastor.

 

[jmcrae]

As opposed to sugar coating people—who apparently now need to be handled with kid gloves. Yup – lets continue down this road–and not prepare anyone to handle the ups and downs that life brings.

Are you deliberately missing the point, or do you really think that the OP was providing this woman with some kind of an educational opportunity by losing his temper and freaking all over her?

Again, it’s not about what people can “handle” - I agree with you that people have to learn how to handle other people’s anger; this is a survival skill.

But that doesn’t make it “okay” or “good” to lose one’s temper. Losing one’s temper is not a good communication skill.

 

[Brother_John]

Are you deliberately missing the point, or do you really think that the OP was providing this woman with some kind of an educational opportunity by losing his temper and freaking all over her?

Again, it’s not about what people can “handle” - I agree with you that people have to learn how to handle other people’s anger; this is a survival skill.

But that doesn’t make it “okay” or “good” to lose one’s temper. Losing one’s temper is not a good communication skill.

Agreed in full. But unfortunately, many “traditional Catholics” believe that any “liturgical abuse” (in their opinion) justifies any act on their part to “correct” said alleged abuse.

We’re banging our heads on the wall here. Anyone who could sit at their keyboard and offer kudos to someone who behaved like that in church just can’t be reasoned with.

:banghead:

 

[jrabs]

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As opposed to sugar coating people—who apparently now need to be handled with kid gloves. Yup – lets continue down this road–and not prepare anyone to handle the ups and downs that life brings.

I am not certain that handling what life brings us means that people have a right to be aggressive if they feel like it.

The OP needs to keep his temper in check with people that make him unhappy. This is not way to teach a lesson. And that is the sugar coat.

No one deserves to be working at church, probably doing whatever they were instructed to do - and have some hot head act aggressively to teach a lesson.

sheesh people. Where is the Christianity in THAT?

 

[jrabs]

Agreed in full. But unfortunately, many “traditional Catholics” believe that any “liturgical abuse” (in their opinion) justifies any act on their part to “correct” said alleged abuse.

We’re banging our heads on the wall here. Anyone who could sit at their keyboard and offer kudos to someone who behaved like that in church just can’t be reasoned with.

:banghead:

I agree. It’s a shame it was not handled in a Christian way.

 

[Walking_Home]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Walking_Home View Post
As opposed to sugar coating people—who apparently now need to be handled with kid gloves. Yup – lets continue down this road–and not prepare anyone to handle the ups and downs that life brings.

Are you deliberately missing the point, or do you really think that the OP was providing this woman with some kind of an educational opportunity by losing his temper and freaking all over her?

Again, it’s not about what people can “handle” - I agree with you that people have to learn how to handle other people’s anger; this is a survival skill.

But that doesn’t make it “okay” or “good” to lose one’s temper. Losing one’s temper is not a good communication skill.

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Have you heard of righteous anger—or in current thought that no longer exists. As to the freaking — does not really reflect the OP’s actions.

 

[jmcrae]

Have you heard of righteous anger—or in current thought that no longer exists. As to the freaking — does not really reflect the OP’s actions.

I have. I have even been a recipient of it, quite lately, in fact.

Here’s what happened.

I did something that was against company rules. One of my supervisors took me aside in private, and explained calmly what the rule was, and why he was upset that I had broken it.

He didn’t smile or act like everything was okay. He did mention that I could be fired if I ever did such a thing again.

He did stay calm, though, and he did allow me to ask questions and pose “what if” scenarios, which he also answered, very calmly.

I learned a lot. I didn’t feel frightened or defensive. And five minutes later, we were able to get on with the next task in a cooperative manner.

I guess what I am getting at here is that it is perfectly possible to be angry without losing one’s temper, or feeling the need to make loud noises with hard metal objects.

 

[Brother_John]

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Have you heard of righteous anger—or in current thought that no longer exists. As to the freaking — does not really reflect the OP’s actions.

Leaving a tabernacle open for a while before Mass may be “abuse” to some, but there are bigger issues to draw our swords over, especially if we’re going to be unholy jerks about it.

 

[Brendan]

The OP needs to keep his temper in check with people that make him unhappy. This is not way to teach a lesson.

Actually, it certainly seemed to be a way to teach a lesson. As the OP mentioned, the problem has not resurfaced again, so, by definition, the lesson has been taught.

sheesh people. Where is the Christianity in THAT?

How did Christ teach people not to sell doves in the Temple compound? Was there Christianity in that?

 

[puzzleannie]

since we are light years away from OP, specifically actions in our own parishes which are right but result in more problems for us, suggest we close the thread, and all those who want to complain about their boss or debate the Real Presence can start their own threads.