Have you heard a coming-out story from someone who has same-sex attraction?

[LaughingBoy1503]

Two guy friends of mine have come out of the closet. One when we were 18 and the other when we were in our mid 20’s. The first one was a close friend of mine in high school. I was not shocked. He was always a little feminine and I use to defend when people said he was gay. The second was a friend more through other friends. I had had heard rumors but I did not really care. Then he admitted he was gay and started living a very openly flamboyant gay lifestyle.

I am not homophobic. I feel sorry for those that have to deal with s.s. attraction. If they are trying to live a Christian life I know it must be a extremely heavy cross to carry. I think we should remember that. I do not think everyone just “chose” to be gay. I truly believe some people just cannot help that they are attracted to the same sex.

With that said both those friends did try to hit on me so I do not think I would be too comfortable becoming too chummy with a man with s.s. attraction. But I will give them the dignity and respect due to any human being.

 

[Rau]

…Why is it OK for one employee to talk about his significant other, but not for another to do the same? How is that not simply a double standard?

In your reasoning, you equate two circumstances that are not the same (at least in the reasonable opinion of many). You take it as a given that it is just fine to have a “significant other” (read: a ‘sexual partner’) who is of the same sex. That is not a universally accepted position.

A double-standard requires the unfair application of a rule. But in this case, it is not unfair to be discrete in matters that may (reasonably) cause offence to others. Reference to one’s Marriage causes noone offence. Can we say the same about one’s fetish? Or one’s gay (sexual) relationship?

Now as a practical matter, having reached the stage where the State has declared that “marriage” encompasses SSM, and that the latter is a good thing, even a “right”, it is of course absurd to say that persons in that situation ought feel obliged to conceal their circumstance. Just as it is absurd to say that - given the State’s position on SSM - that children’s primary school readers ought not present SSM as constituting ordinary families. We are stuck with this situation now.

 

[Rau]

To certain individuals, one just disclosing his or her SSA is viewed as being in the certain people’s faces about their sexuality. So certain people basically demand all SSA people be closeted because I guess it makes them uncomfortable (with the out of sight, out of mind mentality).

I don’t know about “demand”, but at least “urge” may be true. There are always things about ourselves that we keep private, for one reason or another. In so far as SSA is concerned, one wonders why one would choose to “go public” about that, unless of course one had also chosen to embrace those inclinations, and to live them out. I can well understand confiding in one’s close friends, regardless. But if one intends to reject where SSA can lead, why would one want to confide their SSA with other than confidants?

…I have to monitor my words lest someone get offended and uncomfortable because they realize I have SSA.

It is a sad (but true) commentary that a single person becomes suspected of SSA by virtue of being single and not choosing to date.

The whole idea of ‘keep it to yourself’ creates this feeling of isolation that only makes carrying this particular cross that much more difficult.

I’m not sure why “going public” would ease the difficulty? It may add as much difficulty as it resolves. Certainly if the idea of keeping something private is equated with the notion of “I’m bad”, there is a problem.

I very much feel like many people would prefer to pretend that I don’t exist which can make one feel totally alone and unwanted (and we wonder why so many people with SSA leave the church).

I imagine that those with SSA leaving the church are those who intend to or have embraced same sex sexual relationships and want to pursue them. Frankly, I’m not sure what such persons want of the Church that it can reasonably be expected to deliver.

 

[TMC]

In your reasoning, you equate two circumstances that are not the same (at least in the reasonable opinion of many). You take it as a given that it is just fine to have a “significant other” (read: a ‘sexual partner’) who is of the same sex. That is not a universally accepted position.

A double-standard requires the unfair application of a rule. But in this case, it is not unfair to be discrete in matters that may (reasonably) cause offence to others. Reference to one’s Marriage causes noone offence. Can we say the same about one’s fetish? Or one’s gay (sexual) relationship?

Now as a practical matter, having reached the stage where the State has declared that “marriage” encompasses SSM, and that the latter is a good thing, even a “right”, it is of course absurd to say that persons in that situation ought feel obliged to conceal their circumstance. Just as it is absurd to say that - given the State’s position on SSM - that children’s primary school readers ought not present SSM as constituting ordinary families. We are stuck with this situation now.

Referring to one’s opposite sex marriage or relationship while requiring that gay people not talk at all about their relationships is certainly offensive. The standards should be the same, and there is no reasonable argument otherwise. You are essentially saying that the mere fact that gay people exist is so offensive to some people that gay people are required to pretend they do not exist.

 

[Rau]

Referring to one’s opposite sex marriage or relationship while requiring that gay people not talk at all about their relationships is certainly offensive. The standards should be the same, and there is no reasonable argument otherwise.

I think I was abundantly clear that “requiring” such ‘silence’ is absurd: I wrote:
Now as a practical matter, having reached the stage where the State has declared that “marriage” encompasses SSM, and that the latter is a good thing, even a “right”, it is of course absurd to say that persons in that situation ought feel obliged to conceal their circumstance. Just as it is absurd to say that - given the State’s position on SSM - that children’s primary school readers ought not present SSM as constituting ordinary families. We are stuck with this situation now.

Your assertion (that there is no reasonable argument for discretion) follows IF you accept that such relationships are fine and no reasonable basis for offending anyone.

You are essentially saying that the mere fact that gay people exist is so offensive to some people that gay people are required to pretend they do not exist.

No. I’m saying that sharing with others that one’s sexual partner is of the same sex is going to be offensive to some. There is however no basis for those offended to demand that such “sharing” cease, given the position arrived at in a (more of less) democratic fashion in their jurisdiction.

 

[josh987654321]

I selected ‘don’t know’ because I don’t know what constitutes a ‘coming out’ story. It would depend on the specifics of the situation or what happened whether I believe it was inappropriate or not.

If I had a son/daughter who had SSA, I would want them to feel they could tell me that. In fact, I think people being in ‘denial’ or ‘hiding it’ constitutes a problem as people who have SSA I don’t believe are given the skills or educated with how to deal with it. In the sense of it being wrong to act on such desires, but not that they have SSA. I would simply say, due to the fall, in sin we were born, and thus we will always have something to suffer and temptations to overcome.

As for the ‘co-worker’ situation another poster suggested, I can certainly see how that could be uncomfortable, it would depend on how well you know them I think.

And considering you were the opposite sex, I would have felt a lot more uncomfortable if they started opening up about their ‘heterosexuality’ in front of me. I think it was more you didn’t know the person very well that made it uncomfortable.

But nevertheless, if he/she opened up about it, I don’t think I would say or think anything like ‘keep it to yourself’ I think I would try and help by explaining my views on it.

Anyway, these are just some of my thoughts on the subject.

I hope this has helped

God Bless You

Thank you for reading
Josh

 

[TMC]

I think I was abundantly clear that “requiring” such ‘silence’ is absurd: I wrote:
Now as a practical matter, having reached the stage where the State has declared that “marriage” encompasses SSM, and that the latter is a good thing, even a “right”, it is of course absurd to say that persons in that situation ought feel obliged to conceal their circumstance. Just as it is absurd to say that - given the State’s position on SSM - that children’s primary school readers ought not present SSM as constituting ordinary families. We are stuck with this situation now.

Your assertion (that there is no reasonable argument for discretion) follows IF you accept that such relationships are fine and no reasonable basis for offending anyone.

No. I’m saying that sharing with others that one’s sexual partner is of the same sex is going to be offensive to some. There is however no basis for those offended to demand that such “sharing” cease, given the position arrived at in a (more of less) democratic fashion in their jurisdiction.

I guess I misunderstood your point. Sorry, it was pretty clear but I missed it. I think we disagree as to whether it is reasonable to be offended by merely learning of someone’s gay relationship. But, I certainly agree with your last sentence - there is no basis for anyone thus offended to demand that gay people hide their relationships.

 

[Rau]

I guess I misunderstood your point. Sorry, it was pretty clear but I missed it. I think we disagree as to whether it is reasonable to be offended by merely learning of someone’s gay relationship. But, I certainly agree with your last sentence - there is no basis for anyone thus offended to demand that gay people hide their relationships.

The full context is necessary - “given the (more or less) democratically arrived at result.”

The consequences of living in a democracy are sometimes uncomfortable. We have to be willing to accept that we may be in the minority. We may lose an argument. Of course, we can continue to argue a case for change (even reversal), or for “exceptions” or whatever, and no one can demand that we be silenced for so doing.

[Interestingly, if one considers counties such as Iraq, Afghanistan, etc. which appear to be permanently at war (at least once democracy is introduced) - it is clear that the boundaries of these countries are miss-drawn - these countries cannot exist as democracies because there are too many people who are NOT prepared to accept losing an argument and maintain a right to violence whenever the vote does not go their way. They were actually better places as ‘dictatorships’.]

 

[Trident_H]

I don’t know about “demand”, but at least “urge” may be true. There are always things about ourselves that we keep private, for one reason or another. In so far as SSA is concerned, one wonders why one would choose to “go public” about that, unless of course one had also chosen to embrace those inclinations, and to live them out. I can well understand confiding in one’s close friends, regardless. But if one intends to reject where SSA can lead, why would one want to confide their SSA with other than confidants?

It is a sad (but true) commentary that a single person becomes suspected of SSA by virtue of being single and not choosing to date.

I’m not sure why “going public” would ease the difficulty? It may add as much difficulty as it resolves. Certainly if the idea of keeping something private is equated with the notion of “I’m bad”, there is a problem.

I imagine that those with SSA leaving the church are those who intend to or have embraced same sex sexual relationships and want to pursue them. Frankly, I’m not sure what such persons want of the Church that it can reasonably be expected to deliver.

Here’s a thing about why I wear my awareness of my SSA on my sleeve. It’s because when the default is the opposite. When everyone just assumes you’re on one side of the field. Then they always bring things from that angle. It can be a bit of a chore to remind people that I’m not going to be doing this or that because I need to stay away from those kinds of influences. I mean in a small way maybe I do that because I’ve gotten used to doing the same things about my alcoholism. I mean people feel a bit bad if they’ve invited me out to drink and I tell them then. Or worse, when I’m at their house and they actually hand me one. So I make it a common bit of info about me. Sort of like a deathly nut allergy maybe. I spread it around. So no one feels bad. And so I have a bit of space between what everyone else is free to do and my weakness. It can be hard at times to constantly say no to the things you want to do. So one defense is to put that out there upfront. To self-label that way. In the hopes that people will understand how to phrase the rest of the conversation. So that they’ll know that you know that they know.

So maybe some of them can choose in advance exactly how close they want to get to me. Before they’ve invested a lot of time at it. Before they’ve built a mental image of who I am. That I later have to shatter. I guess I’m just trying to stay away from the shock of that too.

I don’t know.

Peace Rau.

-Trident

 

[Durnford]

Coming out about what exactly

 

[Thorolfr]

Coming out about what exactly

Coming out of the closet, or simply coming out, is a figure of speech for lesbian, gay, bisexual, pansexual, transgender, and asexual (LGBTQ+) people’s self-disclosure of their sexual orientation (or lack thereof) and/or gender identity.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coming_out

 

[bobballen_18]

The whole idea of ‘keep it to yourself’ creates this feeling of isolation that only makes carrying this particular cross that much more difficult. I very much feel like many people would prefer to pretend that I don’t exist which can make one feel totally alone and unwanted (and we wonder why so many people with SSA leave the church).

Yes, this is my experience - the feeling of isolation has only added another struggle to the already tough cross of SSA.

I am beginning to believe that - obviously through the grace of God - the only way I can “heal”, so to speak, is to be able to have a network of people to whom I turn for support, so that I don’t feel I have to “keep it secret” all the time. Like I mentioned in an earlier post, I definitely don’t support just telling everyone you meet “hey, I have SSA!” or whatever. In fact, quite the opposite - I do believe that those with SSA who are fighting it (that is, trying to live according to Church teachings) must be very selective with whom they tell - but that they do need to tell people.

Some people might disagree, but I think it can be a very rewarding experience to share struggles with your closest friends - your closest friends who obviously won’t just dismiss your struggles and will accept you despite them. And obviously who won’t go around blabbing…haha. The fact of the matter is, not everyone in a SSA individual’s life will do this, and part of the struggle of SSA in my experience, as I basically mentioned above, is feeling isolated due to not being able to have this kind of intimate friendship I am talking about.

But I suppose that is just my experience.

 

[estesbob]

Yes, this is my experience - the feeling of isolation has only added another struggle to the already tough cross of SSA.

I am beginning to believe that - obviously through the grace of God - the only way I can “heal”, so to speak, is to be able to have a network of people to whom I turn for support, so that I don’t feel I have to “keep it secret” all the time. Like I mentioned in an earlier post, I definitely don’t support just telling everyone you meet “hey, I have SSA!” or whatever. In fact, quite the opposite - I do believe that those with SSA who are fighting it (that is, trying to live according to Church teachings) must be very selective with whom they tell - but that they do need to tell people.

Some people might disagree, but I think it can be a very rewarding experience to share struggles with your closest friends - your closest friends who obviously won’t just dismiss your struggles and will accept you despite them. And obviously who won’t go around blabbing…haha. The fact of the matter is, not everyone in a SSA individual’s life will do this, and part of the struggle of SSA in my experience, as I basically mentioned above, is feeling isolated due to not being able to have this kind of intimate friendship I am talking about.

But I suppose that is just my experience.

I think support groups are great. they have helped immensely with my alcoholism. There are some times where it is important to share that i am a recovering alcoholic but most times nobody cares.

 

[at9009]

I’m not sure why “going public” would ease the difficulty? It may add as much difficulty as it resolves. Certainly if the idea of keeping something private is equated with the notion of “I’m bad”, there is a problem.

One of the biggest things is to stop having to worry that relationships with co-workers, colleagues, and family changing if they found out about the SSA. It would just be out there and instead of worrying, I could just focus following God’s Will for me. I expect I would receive flack from both sides (some Christians mad at me being open about it and some activists being mad at being celibate). Additionally, there is a need to show people with SSA that despite all the challenges and the difficulties, there is joy in following Christ.

I imagine that those with SSA leaving the church are those who intend to or have embraced same sex sexual relationships and want to pursue them. Frankly, I’m not sure what such persons want of the Church that it can reasonably be expected to deliver.

That is not entirely true. I imagine all single people often feel neglected and ignored by the Church at times. There are tons of ministry and support for families, dating couples, etc (even the single’s ministries are often feel like pre-marriage preparation). But single people (regardless the reason) often feel ignored and grasping for scraps. Maybe occasionally during the homily mention that there are those among the parish that deal with this cross and are striving to follow God (I understand the teaching so some validation of my path every once in a while would be nice).

 

[Trident_H]

One of the biggest things is to stop having to worry that relationships with co-workers, colleagues, and family changing if they found out about the SSA. It would just be out there and instead of worrying, I could just focus following God’s Will for me. I expect I would receive flack from both sides (some Christians mad at me being open about it and some activists being mad at being celibate). Additionally, there is a need to show people with SSA that despite all the challenges and the difficulties, there is joy in following Christ.

That is not entirely true. I imagine all single people often feel neglected and ignored by the Church at times. There are tons of ministry and support for families, dating couples, etc (even the single’s ministries are often feel like pre-marriage preparation). But single people (regardless the reason) often feel ignored and grasping for scraps. Maybe occasionally during the homily mention that there are those among the parish that deal with this cross and are striving to follow God (I understand the teaching so some validation of my path every once in a while would be nice).

Rightly said. The whole bit.

 

[bobballen_18]

One of the biggest things is to stop having to worry that relationships with co-workers, colleagues, and family changing if they found out about the SSA. It would just be out there and instead of worrying, I could just focus following God’s Will for me. I expect I would receive flack from both sides (some Christians mad at me being open about it and some activists being mad at being celibate). Additionally, there is a need to show people with SSA that despite all the challenges and the difficulties, there is joy in following Christ.

Those are good points. I don’t know that I totally agree that it is necessary to make it public, but those are good points and who knows, with how much I am learning about SSA and its causes and effects in my life, I could have a totally different opinion on that in a few months.

 

[at9009]

Those are good points. I don’t know that I totally agree that it is necessary to make it public, but those are good points and who knows, with how much I am learning about SSA and its causes and effects in my life, I could have a totally different opinion on that in a few months.

Fair enough and I don’t expect everyone in similar situation to mine to have the same experiences or even the same viewpoints. I do want to wish you luck in your journey. God bless.

 

[CatholicSheila]

Yes, this is my experience - the feeling of isolation has only added another struggle to the already tough cross of SSA.

I am beginning to believe that - obviously through the grace of God - the only way I can “heal”, so to speak, is to be able to have a network of people to whom I turn for support, so that I don’t feel I have to “keep it secret” all the time. Like I mentioned in an earlier post, I definitely don’t support just telling everyone you meet “hey, I have SSA!” or whatever. In fact, quite the opposite - I do believe that those with SSA who are fighting it (that is, trying to live according to Church teachings) must be very selective with whom they tell - but that they do need to tell people.

Some people might disagree, but I think it can be a very rewarding experience to share struggles with your closest friends - your closest friends who obviously won’t just dismiss your struggles and will accept you despite them. And obviously who won’t go around blabbing…haha. The fact of the matter is, not everyone in a SSA individual’s life will do this, and part of the struggle of SSA in my experience, as I basically mentioned above, is feeling isolated due to not being able to have this kind of intimate friendship I am talking about.

But I suppose that is just my experience.

My experience is the same. Keeping it from everyone in life was a very isolating experience and it did a lot of damage to my psyche. ‘Coming out’ to those closest to me means I trust those relationships now - beforehand I always wondered what would happen if they found out about the ‘true me’. Given what I knew of their views of homosexuals.

Do I tell everyone? No. I don’t want to have the conversation with many people about why my religion is wrong and why I can have sex if I choose. I tell those I must for my mental health (my family) and those who I believe will support me in my decision to be celibate.