Have you read the Book of Mormon?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Pieman333272
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
I have a different take on polygamy- I believe that Joseph Smith was commanded to start it up as a way of preserving the saints. The Bible has the same stories where prophets had many wives and even concubines as a way to preserve a people- most notable is Abraham. I believe it was necessary as the Mormons trekked west and reestablished themselves in the West. It seems like everyone in Utah who is a 5th generation Mormon has polygamy in their ancestory. Joseph had to be the one to introduce it because the people accepted him as a prophet. Brigham Young would never have been able to get the support of the people and the saints would not have been preserved.
So I see it as a necessary thing that is no longer needed. It was officially declared illegal as a way for Utah to become a State and I think that was the correct thing to do and it had served its purpose by that time.
That being said the Church is amazingly open about Joseph Smith and his polygamy and I can understand why many people felt/feel he was a fallen prophet.
 
So why should he write that if LDS Mormons don’t see themselves as Saints and not as Christians…?
Click to expand...
LDS used to call themselves Saints, but not Christians. They were proud of that fact. Now, they militantly complain whenever they are called non-Christian. 🤷
 
40.png
Esdra:
Or you buy the RLDS Version (other verse- und chapters than in the LDS Edition!) for $ 10!
Click to expand...
And then you can be sure to have the “original” BoM from 1830.
Because the LDS Church has changed many parts of the BoM since then.
I have checked it: The RLDS Book of Mormon is “100% the Original”. -

Same with the Inspired Version of the Bible. (The LDS Church doesn’t have it - except pieces in the Pearl of Great Price and some bible quotes of this Version in the so called Joseph Smith Translation.

Esdra
 
Returning_Home said:
I’m sure you are. The Mormon jesus is quoting words that hadn’t yet been written by someone that the fictional Nephites wouldn’t have known anything about. Not only that, but since the Bible as we know it wouldn’t be officially compiled until about 300 AD, some 270 years in the future, the ancient Americans wouldn’t have been able to relate because those words are Luke *paraphrase *of Moses’ words, summarizing them for another audience.

Now this wouldn’t be impossible for God, true, but the fact that the Mormon jesus assigns the to Moses when they are, in reality, Luke’s is a telling error. The person who wrote the BOM, Joseph Smith, didn’t know his Bible quite as well as he’d have us believe.

Not only that, but we find Luke’s paraphrase in Elizabethan English, would really puts this out of reach of the Nephite’s intellect since it wouldn’t be published for another 1,577 years.

Does that make sense PB&J?
Click to expand...
I like how everyone colors the comments they post about my religion such as Mormon Jesus, Fictional Nephites and about the 500 other terms I have heard on these boards that states a persons feelings as fact. Would you like me to interject my color into all of my comments so that I can blind the readers with obvious bias and close their minds? The Catholic Church anciently and Modern is a pretty easy target for this type of coloring.
Well to answer your comment on the Nephites not knowing the writings of Moses you are not familiar with the Book of Mormon. you would have to actually read the book and make it all of the way to the 3rd chapter of the book to see they had his writings. But in typical Anti-Mormon personality you have never actually tried to read the book but just believed what you have read that other people say about the book. In 3rd Nephi Christ is speaking after his death in Jerusalem and is referring to what Moses Prophesied in Deuteronomy, Why is it impossible for you to understand that Christ would use the same words as Peter and John?
 
Peanut, when Catholics read the BoM, we read it from our cultural heritage, and we read it critically. We can spot the ex post facto prophecies, the pre-Christian Christianity, and other anachronisms. It is almost as if it is a different book. We read it without being prepped by missionaries or Mormon parents. We have no confirmation bias to overcome. 🤷

Again, (this gets tiresome) cassiusuniversity.wordpress.com/mcb/

I agree that some of the biased terms might be irritating to you, Some past Mormon posters have been irritating to us. :rolleyes:

:angel1:
 
I have two copies. It’s in my long-term plan to read it. I read the first few chapters.
 
LongJourney said:
Peanut, when Catholics read the BoM, we read it from our cultural heritage, and we read it critically. We can spot the ex post facto prophecies, the pre-Christian Christianity, and other anachronisms. It is almost as if it is a different book. We read it without being prepped by missionaries or Mormon parents. We have no confirmation bias to overcome. 🤷

Again, (this gets tiresome) cassiusuniversity.wordpress.com/mcb/

I agree that some of the biased terms might be irritating to you, Some past Mormon posters have been irritating to us. :rolleyes:

:angel1:
Click to expand...
There are never any comments made by the Anti-Mormons on this board that does not have a dig in it, even when someone just makes a nice comment that states I think Mormons are nice- You guys can’t leave it alone you have to pipe in with some silly statement that is derogatory. The only thing I see is-- that you guys state theory as fact, You never question the source of your anti-Mormon Literature as to it’s authenticity but will easily discredit the Book of Mormon on that same basis. When Such sources are proven as false you ignore that and move to the next bashing item. You consistently deceive in your own writings (yes your Cassius University you keep pushing is deceitful in it’s name itself. It is interesting that you use the the Gadianton Robbers as a name. In the Book of Mormon these were a secret clan that sought to destroy the Church of God and bring false doctrines into it. It sounds like you and your clan are rising from the dead a new clan) You leave no room at all for anyone to accept your theories seriously because of the Vehement way you post. By their Fruits you shall Know them! I know what fruit you produce and it is the bitter fruit.
 
I am sad to see you reacting like this. :bighanky: Anger can be a sign of shaken faith. :gopray2:
 
PeanutBono said:
Why is it impossible for you to understand that Christ would use the same words as Peter and John?
Click to expand...
It would help if you had the orginal text. You have two translations (BoM, KJV NT), which have been rendered exactly the same, but are supposed to come from two different sources, sources that are supposed to be separated by language, geography, the person speaking, and time. It is a lot to swallow that translations from different sources would come out that exactly. To answer your question, when quoting Moses, why not use the OT text?
 
LongJourney said:
I am sad to see you reacting like this. :bighanky: Anger can be a sign of shaken faith. :gopray2:
Click to expand...
If I was angry and confounded I think I would start pointing out the fallacies in your faith. Do I just need to post a 🙂 to demonstrate my emotions. I was just wanting to point out the inequality in comments posted by the Gadianton Group. I have been subjected in my own search of every type of Anti-Mormon Literature before I joined the church I had to know before I made such a mighty change. I found resolution to everything and more important than finding resolution I found answers that no other faith could answer and answers that I could not deny.

Being a Mormon is not easy we live a great health code in the word of wisdom but is restrictive by the worlds standard in that we don’t drink or smoke, we pay a 10% tithe of our gross income, We live chaste lives before and after marriage. We give of our time since we are a lay church we teach each other, we have to speak in front of our congregation which public speaking is difficult for most people, Our services are 3 hours and in addition to that most members will spend an additional 7-8 hours a week on church work.
While there are plenty of members that do not choose to do all of the above, the majority of us do and today we stand as fruits of the work that all came about 200 years ago when a 14 year old boy wanted to know which church to join. I can discern truth from error and I know what I believe is true.
 
JHow said:
It would help if you had the orginal text. You have two translations (BoM, KJV NT), which have been rendered exactly the same, but are supposed to come from two different sources, sources that are supposed to be separated by language, geography, the person speaking, and time. It is a lot to swallow that translations from different sources would come out that exactly. To answer your question, when quoting Moses, why not use the OT text?
Click to expand...
Because in 3rd Nephi it is Christ speaking not Moses
 
I was just wanting to point out the inequality in comments posted by the Gadianton Group.
Click to expand...
The Gadianton Group has a diversity of members, several of whom are LDS in good standing, although perhaps a bit heterodox.
Being a Mormon is not easy we live a great health code in the word of wisdom but is restrictive by the worlds standard in that we don’t drink or smoke, we pay a 10% tithe of our gross income, We live chaste lives before and after marriage. We give of our time since we are a lay church we teach each other, we have to speak in front of our congregation which public speaking is difficult for most people, Our services are 3 hours and in addition to that most members will spend an additional 7-8 hours a week on church work.
Click to expand...
I do not fault any of those things. Many of them are good. However, there are other problems within Mormon culture and the Mormon church. Racism, sexism, bigotry, judgmental attitudes, the problem of pain dealt with as those who suffer are being punished for their sins, extreme homophobia, the attitude that unmarried celibates will not make it to heaven, shunning and ostracism towards non-members, attempts to turn public schools into religious schools, and etc. I am not saying that some of those things are absent in Catholic culture, but that Mormon doctrine and scriptures support some of these cultural trends in Mormon culture.
 
PeanutBono said:
Because in 3rd Nephi it is Christ speaking not Moses
Click to expand...
Right. Christ is quoting Moses, but the text gets translated exactly like Peter in Acts, instead of like Moses in Deut. There’s no side-stepping it, the Nephi language appears like it was lifted directly from the KJV Acts.
 
JHow said:
Right. Christ is quoting Moses, but the text gets translated exactly like Peter in Acts, instead of like Moses in Deut. There’s no side-stepping it, the Nephi language appears like it was lifted directly from the KJV Acts.
Click to expand...
again I see no error in this, if God was giving Joseph Smith the power to translate the book what style and language should he have translated it to? It seems very acceptable that the Lord would do it in a manner most easily understood by the people and that would be the KJV style as that was the most common bible at the time. If the verses were written too much differently the book would have been criticized for having a different style and therefore not of God.
 
LongJourney said:
The Gadianton Group has a diversity of members, several of whom are LDS in good standing, although perhaps a bit heterodox.

I do not fault any of those things. Many of them are good. However, there are other problems within Mormon culture and the Mormon church. Racism, sexism, bigotry, judgmental attitudes, the problem of pain dealt with as those who suffer are being punished for their sins, extreme homophobia, the attitude that unmarried celibates will not make it to heaven, shunning and ostracism towards non-members, attempts to turn public schools into religious schools, and etc. I am not saying that some of those things are absent in Catholic culture, but that Mormon doctrine and scriptures support some of these cultural trends in Mormon culture.
Click to expand...
Racism existed in the church but it also existed in society during those same times. If you knew Church history you would know JS was anti-slavery and that it was a major reason for discontent with people in Missouri who felt threatened by JS anti-slavery attitude. I would say BY had a higher chance of having bigotry and may have yielded his personal viewpoints into the church.
Sexism? Please my wife who is a convert is a staunch feminist she would never buy into that and again it is a statement you are making that is your own personal thoughts and not based on fact.
Judgemental attitiudes- Ah the ultimate sign we are indeed a Christian Church just like all of the other Christian Churches that Judge. Might I add it is not the Catholic or Latter Days saints that leaders that do the judging it is the members.
I don’t understand the pain / sin comment. expound on that so I can understand.
Extreme Homophobia- provide back up to that, we do condemn Homosexuality as sin but so so Catholics? Are we supposed to change a commandment of God?
Celibates not going to heaven? You don’t understand our Doctrine then.
Shunning- some members do this but it is not a church thing.
 
Racism existed in the church but it also existed in society during those same times. If you knew Church history you would know JS was anti-slavery and that it was a major reason for discontent with people in Missouri who felt threatened by JS anti-slavery attitude. I would say BY had a higher chance of having bigotry and may have yielded his personal viewpoints into the church.
Click to expand...
I am fully aware of those facts. However, the BoM preserves those attitudes. And they are strong within Mormon culture, because of its VERY slow evolution in that area. BY was a first-class bigot.
Extreme Homophobia- provide back up to that, we do condemn Homosexuality as sin but so so Catholics?
Click to expand...
The Mormon church has a strong history of bigotry against even those who have SSA, and recommends marriage as a cure. The Catholic church focuses on homosexual BEHAVIOR, not the feelings.

Please refer back to the posting I made earlier today about “anti-Mormon” literature. This is an example. The definition of anti-Mormon often extends to people who are not Mormon, and have no interest in Mormonism. I know this, because I encountered a Mormon community that was extremely hostile towards me because of my lack of interest.

Sexism is a given. You are a decent male person, but many Mormons men are addicted to the “priesthood power”

I will pass to the rest of the posters for observations on my other comments.
 
LongJourney said:
I am fully aware of those facts. However, the BoM preserves those attitudes. And they are strong within Mormon culture, because of its VERY slow evolution in that area. BY was a first-class bigot.
Click to expand...
I won’t disagree with you although I have no factual basis to back that up, it is my theory only and it is based on there being no accepted doctrines on colored people not being able to hold the priesthood, Colored people certainly did hold the priesthood when Joseph Smith was alive and I think BY just stopped allowing it to happen based on his personal viewpoint much of which was caused by what happened in Missouri and Illinois for the church anti-slavery attitude which BY probably blamed their problems on. What is scriptural doctrine is the restoration of those rights in which there was no answers given to why it was withheld in the first place. I think it just took the church 100 years to figure out a way to undo something that was not correct in the first place.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top