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JHow
Guest
KJV version has steel, (could that explain why the BoM has it too?)
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PeanutBono
Guest
In my copy of the NIV Bible, both verses mention Bronze bows and not steel. I stand by my statement.
So it is ok for you to use a new bible that is written in modern easy to understand language and thus it must be true! Pretty hypocritcal IMO.
I don’t go by what others say. I do my own search and research. There has been no scientific proof of any sort, including DNA, to support, or substantiate, the LDS, and your claim that the people of the BoM ever lived or existed any where, let alone on the American continent. You would think that some artifacts would be found in all this time of their existence. To date…nothing. Again I stand by my statements and claim.
If you googled american Archeological discoveries you will find plenty of supporting evidence of all you claim do not exist you will also find tons of anti-mormon sites that says it does not exist but none of them prove anything they just state they don’e exist. do your own research you clearly don’t
Here youv’e got me. No, I haven’t seen a copy of the manuscript, but I do have this information from an unimpeachable source, and that is from my professor of Comparative Religions at Manhattan College, N.Y.
The reason why you have not is because one does not exist.
Once again I state that I do my own research. You are insulting me with your comment that I go by hearsay. It is common knowledge that the BoM is a false unproven document written by a known charlatan. History has proven this. How an intelligent individual such as you seem to be can be taken in by such a sham confounds me.
common knowledge amongst Critics of Mormons is hardly evidence of anything calling someone a known charlatan when you don’t know the person is hardly a factual statement. Blind yourself is you so desire
PAX DOMINI
Shalom Aleichem
A
Annie_B
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The BOM most likely “got into the drawer” because it was probably a Marriot hotel or Marriot owned hotel. Marriot is Mormon
Annie
Annie
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Annie_B
Guest
Maybe so but that does not mean that they were innocent. Don’t forget many have been aquitted though guilty. Can anyone say “OJ”?
Annie
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PeanutBono
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LJ you lost me on all counts there. who is nanashi? what comparison did Thomas Monson make and what is your source of said comment. What is the S/R Theory?LOL I think you have the same attitude towards those charts as we all had towards Nanashi’s intrusion earlier today. Isn’t it Thomas Monson who made that comparison?
Good night.
As a matter of fact, I was very slow in accepting the S/R theory. I looked at it from all angles before accepting it.
Also your graph which was not quite large enough for me to see is a little hard but as I am currently reading in 3rd Nephi it seems that your graph is inaccurate as it relates to how it would compare to the Bible.
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SalesianSDB
Guest
I’ve been trying to read it online. I wanted to order a print edition, but if you do, the missionaries come to your house to deliver it so I decided not to. But I’ve been reading it online (which I hate reading things, especially books, online). I’ve been trying to find a PDF or ebook version free to download it onto my Nook (Barnes and Noble has the e-book for $0.25, but I don’t want to give the church $0.25).
Anyways, you’re right with the whole “And it came to pass…” I recently finished 1 Nephi 1 (I’ve only been able to finish 1 chapter, that’s how much I hate reading online) and was pretty annoyed with “And it came to pass…” You’d think that Joseph Smith would be more creative.
And I have read parts of Alma and like that book. I especially enjoyed Alma 40:11-12.
I want to read more of it though.
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PeanutBono
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I doubt the church gets the .25 that is probably BN profit, you usually can pick on up from a church just tell them you are interested in the book but don’t wan’t missionaries as long as you don’t give them your contact info they will not track you down.
The and it came to pass is one of my favorite statements as it reminds me that when the tempest is in my life that it too will come to pass.
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JHow
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PeanutBono:
Using the handy-dandy search function here:
scriptures.lds.org/en/search?search=steel&do=Search
I dug up some scripture references to “steel”. All the OT references in KJV come up as “steel”, but in cross referencing to RSV these all come up as “bronze”, and in one case ‘bow’ is coming up ‘arrow’.
Isn’t it possible that the KJV "steel’ was later corrected to “bronze”?
To javl’s point, however, there does seem like there is a lot of metal-working going on in Nephi.
Using the handy-dandy search function here:
scriptures.lds.org/en/search?search=steel&do=Search
I dug up some scripture references to “steel”. All the OT references in KJV come up as “steel”, but in cross referencing to RSV these all come up as “bronze”, and in one case ‘bow’ is coming up ‘arrow’.
Isn’t it possible that the KJV "steel’ was later corrected to “bronze”?
To javl’s point, however, there does seem like there is a lot of metal-working going on in Nephi.
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Javl
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Yes. Almost all of the Biblical verses in the BoM were probably copied verbatim by Smith.KJV version has steel, (could that explain why the BoM has it too?)
PAX DOMINI
Shalom Aleichem
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PeanutBono
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You certainly can try the missionaries, we are given no training or answers for any of the Anti-Mormon pamphlets. We are basically left to our own to research and discover for ourselves the answers. Being a Mormon is tough in today’s world if there is one who doesn’t want to live up to the standards they will look for any reason to justify them walking away. Most will end up on these type of boards later bashing the church. I had to research on my own every question which I believe I have seen them all and some tested me good but in the end I was able to answer every question posed. I had no other members in my family and I never even looked for the church but it found me and is right for me.I accepted a book of Mormon from one of our many many many many many many roving missionaries in Nevada some time back, so I have one.
I’ve opened it a few times and read a passage or two, but I can’t relate it to anything really. I’m a convert to Catholocism from Buddhism by way of a lot of new age stuff before that. It’s not quite like the pagan new age stuff, it’s certainly not like Buddhism, and it’s worded a lot like biblical scripture, but I don’t accept it as biblical so it sounds contrived as it processes through my mind. (I can’t help that, by the way, so no use in pouncing on me).
I suppose if I was still a seeker I’d read it more eagerly. I still want to make myself get through it, and take a few notes on the off chance that the Lord might use me to get through to one of the Mormon missionaries. Seems improbable. I always get the impression that what I say goes in one ear and out the other. But then, see…I don’t know their written word, so it’s difficult to comment on it in a way that’s meaningful to them. This in turn gets back to what exactly are we called to do? Do all of us need to be working on Mormon missionaries?
I’d also like to say that the work their young people are required to do is quite admirable. The way they really try to spread their word, and the strong focus they have on family are really good things. I often wonder why the Catholic Church doesn’t evangelize anymore. How come we’re not in the neighborhood, and at the convenience stores, and bus stops with brochures etc… Signing up people for RCIA. Developing leads. We’re the ones who civilized and Christianized the entire western world! It’s like we just went to some point in the development of the U.S. and said, nah. Let other religions have the U.S., (and now western Europe too).
I’m sincerely curious. I’m going to have to learn something ELSE new now.
God bless us all,
Steven
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Javl
Guest
You know Peanut, you are realy building straw men and spitting into the wind in trying to prove and gain acceptance for the LDS. It is a known fact an has been proven over and over again by theologians, scholars, scientists, et al, that the BoM is pure fiction and the fancy of a charlatan’s imagination. And again I state that I will never understsnd how anyone with a modicum of intelligence can fall for this sham. The Bible alone is God’s word and is sufficient. No adjunct, key to the scripture, or anything else is needed. Anyone who says otherwise is fighting against God and will have much to answer for.
By the By, what say you about Cumorah?
PAX DOMINI
Shalom Aleichem
By the By, what say you about Cumorah?
PAX DOMINI
Shalom Aleichem
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PaulDupre
Guest
Here it is again - the LDS teaching that the only reason people leave the Mormon church is that they don’t want to live up to the standards. It couldn’t possibly be that they discovered that the church lied to them about its history and doctrines, or that they discovered that Joseph Smith was a filthy lying power-hungry horndog, or that they studied the doctrines and Smith’s writings deeply enough that they discovered that, under close examination, it is all a bunch of hooey.
Nope, must be that they couldn’t live up to the “standards”.
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PeanutBono
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Javi- How can I respond to you without offending you? First of all I am not trying to prove anything about my religion I am simply responding to false statements made about our church as factual statements. How is that you reject the Book of Mormon based on your assumption that there are no evidences to back it up? Then at the same time state that it is a fact proven over and over again by Theologians and Scholars that it is pure fiction and the fantasy of a Charlatan? It sounds to me that you need an understanding of the word fact because a Theologian and Scholar do not provide factual statements. The name Theologian indicates theory! Theory is not fact! Same thing with scholar it just means they have studied a subject and most likely from a theologians study. Now scientific is a plausible statement but you would need to list reliable sources that state that not only did none of these things exist but that they will never be found to exist and the scientific data to back that up then it would be a fact. Likewise a simple google search indicates that all of the items mentioned in anti-mormon literature has been found. I am not necessarily agreeing with their finds just stating that others have indicated these things do exist.You know Peanut, you are realy building straw men and spitting into the wind in trying to prove and gain acceptance for the LDS. It is a known fact an has been proven over and over again by theologians, scholars, scientists, et al, that the BoM is pure fiction and the fancy of a charlatan’s imagination. And again I state that I will never understsnd how anyone with a modicum of intelligence can fall for this sham. The Bible alone is God’s word and is sufficient. No adjunct, key to the scripture, or anything else is needed. Anyone who says otherwise is fighting against God and will have much to answer for.
By the By, what say you about Cumorah?
PAX DOMINI
Shalom Aleichem
How solid would the Bible be if you held it to the same standards as you hold the Book of Mormon? Yet you are willing to condemn me to fighting against God for it?
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TikiTokiguy
Guest
One of the missionaries that spent six weeks or so in the ward left his mission early because of family problems back home. I was at a fireside and heard a few guys talking about him. One said - “well, some people just don’t have what it takes to be a Saint.”
What if there were real family problems back home? The missionary told me once that him joining the church caused a lot of problems between him and his mom.
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PeanutBono
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There are certainly legitimate reasons that some leave their missions I was speaking about missionaries that leave the church usually after they come home after 2 years. I have had enough dealings to know that in pretty close to all of my dealing with returned missionaries that leave the church it is due to moral inclinations not in accordance with gospel values. There certainly are exceptions to this rule.
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Javl
Guest
Sorry, but a theologian is not a theoretician. A theologian, as the name implies, is one who studies ( the word of ) God. Theo(s) = God, ology (logos) = (word) study of. A theologian deals in facts. The same holds true with scholars and scientists. Although scientists do develop theories, they too are based on facts.
As far as the Bible goes, it has been held to much closer standards than the BoM ever has and has never been proven wanting or false. I’m sorry, but facts are facts and they cannot be denied or hidden, no matter how hard you try.
Please believe me when I say that I have no animosity toward ( you, or ) the individual member of the LDS. I admire and respect you all for the high moral standards to which you all subscribe and hold. I wish that all were like you, the individual LDS. What I do protest against and reject is the system to which you subscribe that is used to achieve this end. I object to and reject this man-made system and that you call it from God ( when most obviously it is not ). I object and reject the totality of its proven ( many times over ) false and made up claims. And lastly, as I have said, how can all you proven intelligent people subscribe to so blatently obvious falsehoods and believe its lies and falsity and defend it so vigorously is beyond me.
I and others, who have seen through the LDS system are genuinely interested in the salvation of each individual LDS member. We are trying to inform you all that your continued belief in this system is putting each of you in danger of losing your salvation. You are blaspheming God by continuing in this belief. Jesus, our Redeemer, paid the ultimate price for our salvation and you seem to be intent on rejecting it. He did warn us about these things and their resultant reward(s). If you believe in God ( the true one, not one made up by the LDS ) and His word, read and study the Bible. Pray earnestly to the Holy Spirit for knowledge and wisdom. He will not deny or reject you but will show you that all that has been said and shown you about the LDS is true. He will lead you to all truth as He has done to and for me and many, many others.
Shalom ha Meshiach, Chevarim.
PAX DOMINI
Shalom Aleichem
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LongJourney
Guest
Nanashi was a porn spammer who attacked the boards earlier yesterday. I think it was Monson who compared “anti-Mormon” material on the internet to pornography.
In the field of Mormon Studies, S/R is shorthand for the Spalding/Rigdon theory.
I am not sure what you call an inaccuracy in 3 Nephi, but Rigdon was very good at writing scripture salad (re-combining bits and pieces of scripture). To the point that there has been substantial debate challenging his word-print as barely distinguishable from Biblical material.
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LongJourney
Guest
Here is another chart. It maps out certain grammatical errors in the 1830 BoM. Notice the changes within the book.
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
solomonspalding.com/Lib/Graphic6-both3.gif
Sorry, mods, for over-sized graphics again.
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
solomonspalding.com/Lib/Graphic6-both3.gif
Sorry, mods, for over-sized graphics again.
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LongJourney
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JHow
Guest
Is your chart meant to demonstrate different authorship/translator of different books due to the patterns in the misuse of language?
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