Have you read the Book of Mormon?

[PeanutBono]

10 And blessed are all they who are persecuted for my name’s sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11 And blessed are ye when men shall revile you and persecute, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake;
12 For ye shall have great joy and be exceedingly glad, for great shall be your reward in heaven; for so persecuted they the prophets who were before you.

Ridicule away my friends, you are not the first to do so.

 

[LongJourney]

:tsktsk: It goes both ways, Peanut. :console:

 

[PeanutBono]

:tsktsk: It goes both ways, Peanut. :console:

Come on LJ you know us Mormons, it only goes one way.

You have heard this joke I assume:

St.Peter is orientating a bunch of new arrivals and one of them point at this closed white door and asks what is in that room and St. Peter says Shhhhh. The Mormons are in there they think they are the only ones up here!

 

[Barbkw]

PB,

The Book of Mormon directly rejects Catholicism. What would you have us say? My comments are leveled at the theology and validity of what Joseph Smith wrote.

Not at you. My aunts’ daughter and her husband and their 10 children are Mormon. Wonderful family and all of them are outstanding people.

I have only an inkling of how tied up a believer of Mormonism is with both Sacred Scripture and the various books that Smith wrote.

From the sound of it here, many Mormons don’t read the books.

Smith wrote the secondary books in direct opposition to both Catholicism and the Protestantism of his day. And, in direct opposition to the New Testament and to St. John.

P.S. Are there other books beside the Book of Mormon and the Book of Abraham?

 

[LongJourney]

The Book of Abraham is included in The Pearl of Great Price. onlinebooks.library.upenn.edu/webbin/book/lookupid?key=olbp28794

The Doctrine and Covenants is another scriptures.lds.org/dc/contents

Those two, plus the BoM contain the core teachings of the LDS church. Note that I say “teachings”, because they are not Doctrine; that is, anything is liable to be denied at any time.

 

[stormy99]

Mormons aren’t Christians…the BOM is poorly written fiction…and if you have insomnia have a go at it…

stormy

 

[Barbkw]

Mormons are Christians.

 

[LongJourney]

The Book of Abraham is included in The Pearl of Great Price. onlinebooks.library.upenn.edu…?key=olbp28794

The Doctrine and Covenants is another scriptures.lds.org/dc/contents

Those two, plus the BoM contain the core teachings of the LDS church. Note that I say “teachings”, because they are not Doctrine; that is, anything is liable to be denied at any time.

Plus the Bible which does not contain the Deuterocanonical books. The BoM does copy some themes from them.

 

[Javl]

I have read about four ( 4 ) reprints of the Book and have found variations ( changes ) in each one. We Christians have been warned about “another Bible” and the BoM fits this quite well, and of course I reject it as pure fancy. Although it does make fun reading in parts, especially the stories of great cities and the use of steel implements ( swords ,etc. ) being available in the Bronze age of Man ( long before steel was even thought of ).

Another thing that tickled my fancy was that these “Jews” all migrated from Israel to the American continent and yet there is no record , either religious or secular, historic or otherwise that this ever happened.

It’s also amazing that the BoM bears such a close and remakable resemblence to “A Manuscript” that was written many years before the BoM by a clergyman. Another amazing thing is that Joseph Smith translated the BoM from “Golden Plates”, which was written in “reformed Egyptian”, and the wording, phrasing, etc., was a word for word identical match to that found in the King James Bible, even to the errors ( Shades of the King’s English! ). Also nothing that is reported in the BoM that the LDS says occured has ever been proven historically or scientifically, as has been the case with the Bible.

For those that like to read a good fictional novel, I highly recommend the BoM.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[LongJourney]

I would not say it is GOOD fiction. Parts are good. For a Catholic’s guide to reading it, I would suggest this:
cassiusuniversity.wordpress.com/mcb/

 

[PeanutBono]

PB,

The Book of Mormon directly rejects Catholicism. What would you have us say? I would say false, The Book of Mormon says not one word about the Catholic Church. My comments are leveled at the theology and validity of what Joseph Smith wrote.

Not at you. My aunts’ daughter and her husband and their 10 children are Mormon. Wonderful family and all of them are outstanding people.

I have only an inkling of how tied up a believer of Mormonism is with both Sacred Scripture and the various books that Smith wrote.

From the sound of it here, many Mormons don’t read the books. I think all of the LDS people on here have read it. I would say without exception. What I have read is many non-Mormons and Ex-Mormons stating that most Mormons have not read the Book of Mormon because they heard someone say that one time.

Smith wrote the secondary books in direct opposition to both Catholicism and the Protestantism of his day. And, in direct opposition to the New Testament and to St. John.
that statement is without back up or at best subject to interpretation

P.S. Are there other books beside the Book of Mormon and the Book of Abraham?

We refer to all scriptures as the standard works. Defined as the old Testament, New Testament, Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants and the Pearl of Great Price

 

[PeanutBono]

I have read about four ( 4 ) reprints of the Book and have found variations ( changes ) in each one. We Christians have been warned about “another Bible” and the BoM fits this quite well, and of course I reject it as pure fancy. Although it does make fun reading in parts, especially the stories of great cities and the use of steel implements ( swords ,etc. ) being available in the Bronze age of Man ( long before steel was even thought of ). JAV you have generally made some good comments this however is not one of them. your comment on steel first refernce 1st nephi 16:18 where the book of Mormon mentions steel weapons. Bow Specifically now refer to 2nd Samuel 22:35 in the OT and then again Psalms 18:34 then rethink your statement. perhaps you think the Bible lies too?

Another thing that tickled my fancy was that these “Jews” all migrated from Israel to the American continent and yet there is no record , either religious or secular, historic or otherwise that this ever happened. you may want to research on that yourself rather than just stating what you have been told to say or have heard other people post. a simple google search will take you to plenty of non-mormon site that state there are descendants from ancient Israel in South America. If you make a factual statement you better make sure it is a fact. Every year throughout this globe discoveries are made that change once though of theories. Just this week the Washing post printed an article that 20 million people once lived in the amazon forest. I am not using this as endorsement rather just to point out you are making statements not based on fact

It’s also amazing that the BoM bears such a close and remakable resemblence to “A Manuscript” that was written many years before the BoM by a clergyman.
you are referring to Solomon Spaulding’s book? Have you actually seen a copy of the book? or have you just read what other people have stated about the book? Comparing this to the Book of Mormon was proved unfounded 160 years ago
Another amazing thing is that Joseph Smith translated the BoM from “Golden Plates”, which was written in “reformed Egyptian”, and the wording, phrasing, etc., was a word for word identical match to that found in the King James Bible, even to the errors ( Shades of the King’s English! ). Also nothing that is reported in the BoM that the LDS says occured has ever been proven historically or scientifically, as has been the case with the Bible.
Again you you state something as fact that is not factual, just biased. you have not done any of your own research which is obvious, you just repost the same comments made by others. I find it Ironic that you want scientific and historical information to prove something when you have not done your own research, even greater irony is that you would more than likely refute Darwinism where they are using scientific and historical fact for their basis

 

[LongJourney]

I present the following passages, one written by Solomon Spalding and included
in “Manuscript Story” but also probably included as an introduction to “Manuscript
Found”, the other supposedly written by Joseph smith, but not published until 1838,
too late for the Conneaut witnesses to have seen it. Similar content in both is bolded.

Convenient to the village of Manchester, Ontario county, New York,
stands a hill of considerable size, and the most elevated of any in the neighborhood.
On the west side of this hill, not far from the top, under a stone of considerable size, lay
the plates, deposited in a stone box. This stone was thick and rounding in the
middle on the upper side, and thinner towards the edges, so that the middle part
of it was visible above the ground, but the edge all around was covered with earth.
Having removed the earth,** I obtained a lever, which I got fixed under the
edge of the stone, and with a little exertion raised it up**. I looked in, and there
indeed did I behold the plates, the Urim and Thummim, and the breastplate, as stated by
the messenger. The box in which they lay was formed by** laying stones together** in
some kind of cement. In the bottom of the box were laid two stones crossways of the
box, and on these stones lay the plates and the other things with them. (J. F. S.-History
1:51-52)

Near the west Bank of the Coneaught River there are the remains of an
ancient fort. As I was walking and forming various conjectures respecting the
character situation and numbers of those people who far exceeded the present race of
Indians in works of art & inginuety** I hapned to tread on a flat Stone**. This was at a
small distance from the fort: & it lay on the top of a small mound of Earth exactly
horizontal – The face of it had a singular appearance I discovered a number of
characters which appeared to me to be letters – but so much effaced by the ravages of
time, that I could not read the inscription.** With the assistance of a leaver I raised
the Stone** – But you may easily conjecture my astonishment when I discovered that its ends and sides
rested on Stones & that it was designed as a cover to an artificial cave. –
I found on examining that its Sides were lined with * * * built in a connical form with * * *
down – & that it was about eight feet deep . . . . Here I noticed a big flat Stone fixed in
the form of a doar. I immediately tore it down & Lo a cavity within the wall presented
itself . . . . Within this cavity I found an earthan Box with a cover which shut it
perfectly tite – The Box was two feet in length one & half in breadth & one and three
inches in diameter. . . .** When I had removed the cover** I found that it contained
twenty eight sheets of parchment . . . appeared to be manuscripts written in an eligant
hand with Roman Letters & in the Latin Language. They were written on a variety of
Subjects.
But the Roll which principally attracted my attention contained a history of the
authors life & that part of America which extends along the great Lakes & the waters of
the Missisippy. (Spalding, 1903)

The similarities are impressive, and do not need any other explanation. This is only one example of the similarities between JS’s accounts and those of Solomon Spalding.

 

[PeanutBono]

First of all what you are quoting is JS account on how he located the plates after Moroni showed them where they were at and is not part of the Book of Mormon, It is in the introductory. The Book of Mormon is 593 pages long and has a detailed history of 1000 years of a people. I certainly can see there are similarities in the text of the portion you posted but the rest of each book do not carry the same parallel. I don’t blame you for being skeptical over this but who has not had to overcome skepticism with their faith? At some point you have to look at the fruits that are born and seek to unite your faith with Gods will.

 

[LongJourney]

At some point you have to look at the fruits that are born and seek to unite your faith with Gods will.

I have seen the fruits of Mormonism. :nope: I pray that you will follow God’s will.

Here is one small section, which compares Jockers et al’s results with Broadhurst’s original study:

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

solomonspalding.com/SRP/MEDIA/plates0.jpg

If you would download my book and begin to read it, I might reconsider my plan to post more graphics on the subject. You will need to enlarge the image to examine it properly.

 

[LongJourney]

Here is another VERY impressive chart:

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

solomonspalding.com/Lib/fig0p.gif



Remember that when people are deeply invested in a belief, and are presented with undeniable evidence contrary to that belief, they often experience feelings of sadness, anger, and confusion. That is normal.

 

[PeanutBono]

Oh heavens to Betsy! Of course you can discount the Book of Mormon being false by the lack of evidence you don’t look for yet you instantly accept Manuscript Lost as truth! Never mind that the story of the book did not surface until 4 years after the Book of Mormon was published and that it was brought forward by a Mormon who was excommunicated nor the fact that the actual manuscript was not seen until 50+ years after the Book of Mormon was published!

 

[LongJourney]

LOL I think you have the same attitude towards those charts as we all had towards Nanashi’s intrusion earlier today. Isn’t it Thomas Monson who made that comparison?

Good night.

As a matter of fact, I was very slow in accepting the S/R theory. I looked at it from all angles before accepting it.

 

[Javl]

I have read about four ( 4 ) reprints of the Book and have found variations ( changes ) in each one. We Christians have been warned about “another Bible” and the BoM fits this quite well, and of course I reject it as pure fancy. Although it does make fun reading in parts, especially the stories of great cities and the use of steel implements ( swords ,etc. ) being available in the Bronze age of Man ( long before steel was even thought of ).

PeanutBono:

JAV you have generally made some good comments this however is not one of them. your comment on steel first refernce 1st nephi 16:18 where the book of Mormon mentions steel weapons. Bow Specifically now refer to 2nd Samuel 22:35 in the OT and then again Psalms 18:34 then rethink your statement. perhaps you think the Bible lies too?

In my copy of the NIV Bible, both verses mention Bronze bows and not steel. I stand by my statement.

Another thing that tickled my fancy was that these “Jews” all migrated from Israel to the American continent and yet there is no record , either religious or secular, historic or otherwise that this ever happened.

you may want to research on that yourself rather than just stating what you have been told to say or have heard other people post. a simple google search will take you to plenty of non-mormon site that
state there are descendants from ancient Israel in South America. If you make a factual statement you better make sure it is a fact. Every year throughout this globe discoveries are made that change once though of theories. Just this week the Washing post printed an article that 20 million people once lived in the amazon forest. I am not using this as endorsement rather just to point out you are making statements not based on fact

I don’t go by what others say. I do my own search and research. There has been no scientific proof of any sort, including DNA, to support, or substantiate, the LDS, and your claim that the people of the BoM ever lived or existed any where, let alone on the American continent. You would think that some artifacts would be found in all this time of their existence. To date…nothing. Again I stand by my statements and claim.

It’s also amazing that the BoM bears such a close and remakable resemblence to “A Manuscript” that was written many years before the BoM by a clergyman.

you are referring to Solomon Spaulding’s book? Have you actually seen a copy of the book? or have you just read what other people have stated about the book? Comparing this to the Book of Mormon was proved unfounded 160 years ago

Here youv’e got me. No, I haven’t seen a copy of the manuscript, but I do have this information from an unimpeachable source, and that is from my professor of Comparative Religions at Manhattan College, N.Y.

Another amazing thing is that Joseph Smith translated the BoM from “Golden Plates”, which was written in “reformed Egyptian”, and the wording, phrasing, etc., was a word for word identical match to that found in the King James Bible, even to the errors ( Shades of the King’s English! ). Also nothing that is reported in the BoM that the LDS says occured has ever been proven historically or scientifically, as has been the case with the Bible.

Again you you state something as fact that is not factual, just biased. you have not done any of your own research which is obvious, you just repost the same comments made by others. I find it Ironic that you want scientific and historical information to prove something when you have not done your own research, even greater irony is that you would more than likely refute Darwinism where they are using scientific and historical fact for their basis

Once again I state that I do my own research. You are insulting me with your comment that I go by hearsay. It is common knowledge that the BoM is a false unproven document written by a known charlatan. History has proven this. How an intelligent individual such as you seem to be can be taken in by such a sham confounds me.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[StevenFrancis]

Last week, my family went to Hersey Park with my aunt. At the hotel room we were staying at, I found the Book of Mormon in a drawer and gave it a look that night. As to how it got there, I don’t know (I know about the Gideons but I don’t think they do Books of Mormon), but that is besides the point. I only read 1 Nephi and started on 2 before I went to sleep. So, out of curiosity, has anyone else read it? Just a book is enough to say you’ve read it (note:I’m not stereotyping the Book of Mormon. I’m just saying not everyone will be able to read it cover to cover).

I accepted a book of Mormon from one of our many many many many many many roving missionaries in Nevada some time back, so I have one.

I’ve opened it a few times and read a passage or two, but I can’t relate it to anything really. I’m a convert to Catholocism from Buddhism by way of a lot of new age stuff before that. It’s not quite like the pagan new age stuff, it’s certainly not like Buddhism, and it’s worded a lot like biblical scripture, but I don’t accept it as biblical so it sounds contrived as it processes through my mind. (I can’t help that, by the way, so no use in pouncing on me).

I suppose if I was still a seeker I’d read it more eagerly. I still want to make myself get through it, and take a few notes on the off chance that the Lord might use me to get through to one of the Mormon missionaries. Seems improbable. I always get the impression that what I say goes in one ear and out the other. But then, see…I don’t know their written word, so it’s difficult to comment on it in a way that’s meaningful to them. This in turn gets back to what exactly are we called to do? Do all of us need to be working on Mormon missionaries?

I’d also like to say that the work their young people are required to do is quite admirable. The way they really try to spread their word, and the strong focus they have on family are really good things. I often wonder why the Catholic Church doesn’t evangelize anymore. How come we’re not in the neighborhood, and at the convenience stores, and bus stops with brochures etc… Signing up people for RCIA. Developing leads. We’re the ones who civilized and Christianized the entire western world! It’s like we just went to some point in the development of the U.S. and said, nah. Let other religions have the U.S., (and now western Europe too).

I’m sincerely curious. I’m going to have to learn something ELSE new now.

God bless us all,

Steven