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JHow
Guest
That was my question, that nothing prevents the priest from counseling that the person turn him/herself in.
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Della
Guest
Just a correction here, the priest cannot make absolution dependent on the person turning himself in because absolution doesn’t depend on the person doing his assigned penance. He can counsel the person to turn himself in, of course. The priest would only withhold absolution if the person were not truly repentant (unlikely if he’s going to bother to go confession) or if he says he intends to keep on sinning (another unlikely scenario). The criminality of a sin has nothing to do with absolution.
Of course, this all assumes a molester would go to confession in the first place. Anyone who thinks it’s all right to molest children is probably not going to confess it, so the whole question becomes moot and is, really, when all is said and done, yet another attempt to scare someone off from becoming a Catholic. Or it’s an attempt (let’s hope an unwitting one) to make it appear the Church has “slipped up” and is not wise enough to know how to handle real life situations. After 2000+ years of dealing with the human heart, mind, and soul, I think the Church has learned a wrinkle or two.
The only time things don’t work well is when the leadership doesn’t take appropriate action when it’s needed. That is a human fault, to which we are all prone, not the failing of the Church.
Of course, this all assumes a molester would go to confession in the first place. Anyone who thinks it’s all right to molest children is probably not going to confess it, so the whole question becomes moot and is, really, when all is said and done, yet another attempt to scare someone off from becoming a Catholic. Or it’s an attempt (let’s hope an unwitting one) to make it appear the Church has “slipped up” and is not wise enough to know how to handle real life situations. After 2000+ years of dealing with the human heart, mind, and soul, I think the Church has learned a wrinkle or two.
The only time things don’t work well is when the leadership doesn’t take appropriate action when it’s needed. That is a human fault, to which we are all prone, not the failing of the Church.
po18guy
Well-known member
The difference here is that in the Catholic Church, the sin would actually be confessed to Christ - through the priest. A penance would be assigned, which could involve an entire array of actions. In the vast majority of other faith traditions, there is no confession, so the offender would never have motivation to confess the sin at all. Here is a another hypothetical situation for your friend: If the molester was Lutheran, did not confess, and kept their position in children’s liturgy, how is that better than in the Catholic Church, where the confession (and penance i.e. corrective action) would take place?
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minkymurph
Guest
I personally would find it hard to understand why a child molester would go to confession. People who work with convicted child molesters say one of problems regarding their rehabilitation, is they don’t see anything wrong with what they do and they have no desire to change. Look at Gary Glitter as an example. He stated on National Radio he had not done anything wrong. He had sex with a 14 year old and his defence was, he didn’t know 14 was under the age of consent in Tailand. (He is 60+) I reckon most men would see something wrong with that. I saw a documentary about another child molester who is currently campaining to have the age of consent abolished in Holland because he believes a child is capable of consent at any age. I couldn’t see a person like that genuinely seeking absolution.
I remember a priest telling me if someone confessed to a crime such as murder or rape, and I would assume molesting kids although it wasn’t specifically mentioned, he would ask the person if they where willing to go to the police. If not, he would say they could not have absolution. Some may question this, but I would say if a person is not willing to go to the police, you would have to question if they are genuinely repentent.
I’m not an expert on confession, but I would guess that someone who is gay and confessed it, could receive absolution. I suppose what you would have to ask yourself is do you think they need it? In other words, do you think it is something they should confess or not? I would say cohabiting couples should not be a ministers of the Eucharist, read scripture or offer the prayer of the faithful at Mass.
Gay people may not be fully culpible for their actions. However, those with addictions are not fully culpible but they would still confess to receive strength to overcome their addiction and the priest would encourage them to seek help from experts. If a child molester confessed, I would assume the priest would encourage them to seek help from a psychlologist. If they where unwilling to do this, the priest has a call to make as to whether he will give them absolution or not. They could try and fool the priest and lie, but they would not be fooling God.
I remember a priest telling me if someone confessed to a crime such as murder or rape, and I would assume molesting kids although it wasn’t specifically mentioned, he would ask the person if they where willing to go to the police. If not, he would say they could not have absolution. Some may question this, but I would say if a person is not willing to go to the police, you would have to question if they are genuinely repentent.
I’m not an expert on confession, but I would guess that someone who is gay and confessed it, could receive absolution. I suppose what you would have to ask yourself is do you think they need it? In other words, do you think it is something they should confess or not? I would say cohabiting couples should not be a ministers of the Eucharist, read scripture or offer the prayer of the faithful at Mass.
Gay people may not be fully culpible for their actions. However, those with addictions are not fully culpible but they would still confess to receive strength to overcome their addiction and the priest would encourage them to seek help from experts. If a child molester confessed, I would assume the priest would encourage them to seek help from a psychlologist. If they where unwilling to do this, the priest has a call to make as to whether he will give them absolution or not. They could try and fool the priest and lie, but they would not be fooling God.
po18guy
Well-known member
Well, the question posed to the OP was hypothetical anyway. Hypothetical questions or situations are often used as a canard by skeptics. As to Mr. “Glitter” being in Thailand, was he on a trip to meet David Carradine or something?
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Catechist54
Guest
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illmatic
Guest
Is there not some rule where if the person says ‘I am going to’ the priest can intervene?
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rinnie
Guest
When we go to confession the Priest is bound by God to not reveal anything we have said. That said you have to remember one important thing. Confession for us is like going to a Dr. Our souls are in need of repair. A person who is hurting kids is usually someone who was also hurt as a child.
We are talking about a very unbalanced person. If they are going to the Priest that is probally their last cry out for help. Now you have to think of this. When we go to confession it is the Holy Spirit talking to us. God himself. The Priest is only a person acting in place of God.
When that Priest speaks, it is the Power of the Holy Spirit working through him. The Holy Spirit by the help of the Priest will guide that person to do the right thing. We have to believe this as Catholics. That is why we go ourself. Our soul is ill, Sin is like a cancer. But confession is kinda like our drug. We must believe that confessing to God has to be our Salvation. Not that the person does not have to pay for their sin, but it is the Priest that can convince that Person by the Power of the Holy Spirit to get that help here on earth.
No matter how horrible this sounds God can forgive that person also. They have to repent, and quit the sin. It may be that the confession by that person, and the Priest’s help that a child can also be saved. Because by that Priest telling that person that God can forgive you, but you have to turn yourself in and get help in this world, will save you in the next.
Like any other sin the first thing in getting healing from Christ is to admit the sin, and want help. We as Christians believe that the Holy Spirit can overpower sin. Sometimes that is all the sinner needs to hear.
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jmcrae
Guest
Technically, that isn’t a Confession, because the person hasn’t actually done anything, yet.
You can neither be absolved, nor convicted, of a sin you haven’t yet committed - but at the same time, the priest could certainly counsel the person, and warn potential victims.
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Della
Guest
Della;7082603:
(PS: Sorry if I came across as nitpicky
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Orogeny
Guest
Just a point for clarification. A priest cannot bring up a person’s confessed sins outside of the confessional. The person making the confession can bring it up to the priest, but not the other way around.
I assume you mean that the priest can counsel and instruct a person during the confession, not at some later time.
Peace
Tim
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minkymurph
Guest
Wouldn’t be surprised if he had been! Funny how every country he has travelled to in about the last two years is one that has a reputation for facilitating old men with young girls. Incidently, I omitted the fact that he was simultaneously in bed with the 14 year old’s mother.
I have discussed confession with friends of mine who are Protestant. They seem to have this idea that Catholics are confessing to a string of horrendous doings when they go to confession and receiving absoution is some kind of ‘get out’ clause. I have often told it is more than likely nothing could be farther from the truth. Most people I know who go to confession regularly are older people, who by and large are not living it up on alcohol and e-tabs in night clubs at the weekend. They are more likely confessing to swearing at the next door neighbours cat for leaving something undesirable on their flower bed.
Absolution is a Sacrament. For this sacrament to be effective, the person must be genuinely repentent and have a genuine desire to be reconciled with God. In the asbsence of these criteron, the person will not receive the full effect of the Sacrament, because they don’t want it.
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brumano
Guest
I think you and other posters, and RCIA persons will be able to work through this concern. There are going to be things down the road that you are going to have some suffering with, and you really have to understand that it’s not all beauty and bliss, don’t get me wrong, there’s plenty of both but there’s also sometimes things like dryness, being misunderstood by your friends perhaps, well you have to come in knowing that these things are going to happen. One of the main qualities for a Catholic (especially nowadays)is toughness. Good Luck.
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crazzeto
Guest
Because for all intents and purposes, confession is necessary for salvation. At the very least, I will confess it most certainly is necesary for mine. If the lay had no confidence that they could confess privately, if they knew that their confession could, at a whim, be shared by the priest (or even that it might be shared in just these cases) people would tend not to go to confession.
Rather, they would lock all their mortal sins with in them selves, and be enternally damned. This doesn’t seem in line with “…I came into the world to save it, not to damn it”. Thus we have the seal of confession. Perhaps on the surface, in some cases it might appear as a material evil (as in the case you cite), but when one looks at this as God looks at it you can see the great mercy at work. Because of the seal all souls can confess in confidence their sins no matter what they are and be saved.
mom,
Just two comments, and neither intended to convince you to not convert.
- Lutheran pastors are under the same seal of the confessional. When I have used private confession, the pastor/confessor has made this clear.
- To clarify, it is only the ELCA that has made the determination, and I would say outside scripture and the confessions, to ordain pastors who live in these types of relationships outside of marriage.
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Sufjon
Guest
This is just my view on the logic of the matter:
-If offenders knew that priests would turn them in, then they wouldn’t tell priests what they did in the first place, so, the question is superfluous. The priest is there to help victims and perpetrators alike, without regard to their merit other than their shared and common status as children of God I would suppose. Apprehension of offenders remains a matter for law enforcement. Helping people find God is a matter for churches.
The logical answer in my view would then be simple. If you feel drawn to the Catholic church, follow your inclinations that took you there in the first place and follow through with it. You’ll probably find other things you don’t like about it over time. There will always be this thing and that. But if your heart generally tells you that’s the place you ought to be, then that’s the place.
Just my advice.
Respectfully,
Sufjon
-If offenders knew that priests would turn them in, then they wouldn’t tell priests what they did in the first place, so, the question is superfluous. The priest is there to help victims and perpetrators alike, without regard to their merit other than their shared and common status as children of God I would suppose. Apprehension of offenders remains a matter for law enforcement. Helping people find God is a matter for churches.
The logical answer in my view would then be simple. If you feel drawn to the Catholic church, follow your inclinations that took you there in the first place and follow through with it. You’ll probably find other things you don’t like about it over time. There will always be this thing and that. But if your heart generally tells you that’s the place you ought to be, then that’s the place.
Just my advice.
Respectfully,
Sufjon
po18guy
Well-known member
Very well said.
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kweschnz
Guest
The latter.
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brumano
Guest
You do have to concede though Jon that your church is making a moral statement, the extent of which you may determine. The Catholic Church in it’s moral teachings and in the norms for ordination of priests clearly, and uniformly defines homosexuality as “disordered” and “intrinsically” evil.
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Catechist54
Guest
With respect, one small but very important correction: the Church defines homosexual ACTS as disordered, not the condition of homosexual attraction itself. The Church teaches that all Christians are called to charity to all of our brothers and sisters. Put another traditional way, “Hate the sin, love the sinner.”
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