Head Covering During Mass

[Tom317]

The church doesn’t send mix signals. Check out this thread on the boards. forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=150622 Even when confronted with the Pope’s views on how to treat politicians people still refuses to listen. What else can Rome do? They have spoken. People have made the decision to dis-obey. You can led a horse to the water but you can’t force him to drink.

Even if you get your headcovering mandate what are people going to do? Throw women out of the church who don’t conform? Are there going to be guards posted at the church deny people Jesus?

No, of course we cannot force people. The point I am making is that our leaders do NOT lead. Can Ted Kennedy receive communion? Yes he can. Does Ted Kennedy still support abortion? Yes he does. Our Church tells us that abortion is terrible, yet it does nothing about publci offenders, which simpy provides the wrong example for lay Catholics.

Example: Couple A knows the Church says using birth control is wrong, yet they really want to have as much sex as possible and they see how public people get away with all sorts of sins. They conclude that the Church’s rules must be more like guidelines, then actuall mortal sins. After all, if the Church truly believed that mortal sin leads a soul to hell, then they would try to help everyone from commiing mortal sin, right?

Example: Couple B learns that head coverings are mandated under Canon Law, but they feel it is an old fashioned practice that does not need to be followed, after all no-one follows old fashioned stuff like wearing veils or going to confession, etc…

I love Jesus and His Church, I truly do. Yet, the Church is NOT helping parents in this world.

 

[La-Petite-Fleur]

Several people asked me why it’s disrespectful for a man to wear a hat in church…

Am I the only one who has heard that it is rude & disrespectful for a man to not remove his hat/cap upon entering a formal setting? It’s just common etiquette.

Personally, I do think women should wear a mantilla. But the church doesn’t enforce it for some reason, even if it is Biblically mandated.

 

[Tom317]

Several people asked me why it’s disrespectful for a man to wear a hat in church…

Am I the only one who has heard that it is rude & disrespectful for a man to not remove his hat/cap upon entering a formal setting? It’s just common etiquette.

Personally, I do think women should wear a mantilla. But the church doesn’t enforce it for some reason, even if it is Biblically mandated.

If it is not rude for a woman to go to Mass without covering her head, then why is it rude for a man to wear a hat? That is a clear double standard.

 

[Godfollower]

If it is not rude for a woman to go to Mass without covering her head, then why is it rude for a man to wear a hat? That is a clear double standard.

I take it, then, that if the Church proposed a new canon for the 1983 CIC saying “Men may not wear hats in church, but women must do so,” you would be opposed to it? Since it’s a clear double standard?

 

[Tom317]

I take it, then, that if the Church proposed a new canon for the 1983 CIC saying “Men may not wear hats in church, but women must do so,” you would be opposed to it? Since it’s a clear double standard?

No. The reason people think men should not wear hats indoors is because of the milleniums long custom in the Church that men were not supposed to do, along with women wearing head coverings in Church. My challenge is this: People claim that women no longer need to wear head coverings because the 1983 canon does not include that Canon, and I say if that is true and right, then men should be able to wear hats in Church because the Canon restricting is not found in the 1983 version. The double standard lies in the fact that many women use Canon Law to justify not wearing head coverings, therefore men should be able to use Canon Law to wear hats in Church.

Since many people say milleniums old customs and laws mean nothing if they are not included in current Canon Law, then that goes for both genders.

 

[Tom317]

I take it, then, that if the Church proposed a new canon for the 1983 CIC saying “Men may not wear hats in church, but women must do so,” you would be opposed to it? Since it’s a clear double standard?

BTW, up until 1983 that was essentially the law. Men could not wear hats in Church and women were mandated to wear head covers. The law was not included in the 1983 version (which does not mean it is gone btw), so both prior mandates should be able to be dumped: no more head covers and men should be able to wear hats. In fact, since the current law is quiet, that means men and women can wear anything on their heads, or nothing, according to their own desire…especially since we are now in the era of saying it is okay to dump milleniums old customs and laws.

 

[Convert_in_99]

After having posted here quite heavily, I am beginning to feel like the proverbial rat chasing his tail…

The bottom line is the vast majority of women in the United States would just snub their noses at Rome even if they declared the head covering law to still be active. Adter all, millions of Catholic women in this nation use contraception, abort their babies, divorce their husbands, etc. Any attempt to tell them tat head coverings must be worn will be met with swift laughter and rejection.

Of course this does not apply to all Catholic women, but it does apply to the majority, imo. Which might be the very reason Rome has never bothered with this issue…they have, in their view, bigger fish to fry. It is very much similar to the many liturgical abuses that abound across the nation, Rome rearely does anything about those either.

Oh well.

Woah! Hold on. Um…I don’t even use NFP…and I don’t wear a head covering. Please don’t say that because a woman dosen’t wear a head covering, she is likely to use contraception, abort her baby, or divorce her husband. THAT IS ABSURD.

I hope you don’t have that veiw about all women, or men, or aliens for that matter. How sad!

Please focus your efforts on pro-life, anti-gay rights, world peace, “the big guns.” If you are bashing women for not covering their heads by telling them they are likely to be pro-choice feminists because of it, you are going to loose far more souls than you win. THAT’S A FACT. Just a heads up!

 

[Tom317]

Woah! Hold on. Um…I don’t even use NFP…and I don’t wear a head covering. Please don’t say that because a woman dosen’t wear a head covering, she is likely to use contraception, abort her baby, or divorce her husband. THAT IS ABSURD.

I hope you don’t have that veiw about all women, or men, or aliens for that matter. How sad!

Please focus your efforts on pro-life, anti-gay rights, world peace, “the big guns.” If you are bashing women for not covering their heads by telling them they are likely to be pro-choice feminists because of it, you are going to loose far more souls than you win. THAT’S A FACT. Just a heads up!

Take note: “…of course this does not apply to all Catholic women…”

 

[Convert_in_99]

Take note: “…of course this does not apply to all Catholic women…”

I realize that. I know you didn’t direct this message to me personally. However, if you have that mentality, you are likely to loose lots of souls, far more than you will win over. We must reach out to the sinner and help them. Whether or not a person wears a head covering will not determine their eternal salvation. Whether or not they have been baptized, avoided sin, followed Jesus in the Gospels, etc. These are what will matter, help people with these! :yup:

Cheer up, its a beautiful world out there. Go enjoy it a little! Don’t be worried that every little thing is a sin, because its not. :nope:

 

[Tom317]

I realize that. I know you didn’t direct this message to me personally. However, if you have that mentality, you are likely to loose lots of souls, far more than you will win over. We must reach out to the sinner and help them. Whether or not a person wears a head covering will not determine their eternal salvation. Whether or not they have been baptized, avoided sin, followed Jesus in the Gospels, etc. These are what will matter, help people with these! :yup:

Cheer up, its a beautiful world out there. Go enjoy it a little! Don’t be worried that every little thing is a sin, because its not. :nope:

People who think they can pick and choose what to follow, are likely going to also do so with critical teachings.

Thanks for caring, I am a very happy person.

 

[Jean_Anthony]

The thread is drifting into speculations about the behavior of Catholics instead of focusing on the topic. If you wish to discuss the correlation between one kind of obedience and another, please start a new thread. Thank you.

 

[catholicrocks]

I was talking to two of my guys friends last night and they both mentioned how beautiful they thought the veils was and that i should wear it. One said he would go to mass with me so that i wouldn’t feel werid. Got to love guy friends like that!

Actually my reason for feeling the calling to wear one is very simple. I sometime call myself the pondering handmaiden. I want to strive to be like our mother and just say yes and let the lord use me as his handmaiden. I was at church one day and saw a girl dressed for her first communion. It reminded me of a bride. Then i got to pondering: Little girls at first communion wear veils as they receieve Jesus for the first time and a bride wears a veil when she is entering in a marriage so why stop at just these two celebrations? Isn’t every mass a wedding feast? Aren’t I accepting Jesus into my body and soul when receiving communion so shouldn’t i also be veiled?

This is my thought process right or wrong. I have gone through a lot of spiritual changes the last few months and these thought keep poppping in my head so i am going to try it out. I think even if i don’t go to mass with my friend that i will wear it by myself after all i go to mass ever weekend by myself so it wouldn’t be any different if people looked at me werid for being a single women.

I like your idea about being a rebel to society. I am trying to find ways to share my faith with others so maybe wearing a veil will get people to ask me about my faith .

i will let you know how it goes.

Your experience as far as going through a lot of spritual changes over the last few months sounds a lot like what was happening with me when I first started wearing my veil.

I have been blessed in that most of my conversations with others in my parish and such about the veil have been positive ones. They might ask where I got mine, or mention that they have one, but haven’t gotten it out in years, or that they’ve been thinking about wearing one, but were nervous until they saw others wear one.

Again, I have my own personal reasons for wearing the veil, but I think it’s pretty awesome when we are able to encourage each other just through our own wearing of the veil. Again, I am not begrudging women who do not wear the veil. But, for women who want to, or who feel called to, but can’t quite get up the nerve to do it, it’s nice to maybe be one of the people who helped her on her journey in discerning whether or not to wear it.

And, you SO gotta love awesome guy friends who support you like that!!!

 

[Tom317]

The thread is drifting into speculations about the behavior of Catholics instead of focusing on the topic. If you wish to discuss the correlation between one kind of obedience and another, please start a new thread. Thank you.

Good point, thank you for giving us a reminder to stay on topic.

 

[adrift]

The Holy Spirit is God, the Bible was inspired by the Holy Spirit, the Bible is considered the infallibe Word of God.

The Bible is the infallible word of God. Where we differ is in interpretation. You have never commented on my post which points out that Paul said that if a women is ashamed to cut her hair than she should be ashamed to pray without a veil. I doubt if there is anyone who is ashamed that they cut their hair even to the point of being bald. Again I point out that the veil he was talking about would not be the modern veil.
I am not sure that this was a command from God. :nope:

 

[Tom317]

The Bible is the infallible word of God. Where we differ is in interpretation. You have never commented on my post which points out that Paul said that if a women is ashamed to cut her hair than she should be ashamed to pray without a veil. I doubt if there is anyone who is ashamed that they cut their hair even to the point of being bald. Again I point out that the veil he was talking about would not be the modern veil.
I am not sure that this was a command from God. :nope:

For 1970 years the Church thought it was a command from God, or at the very least upheld the law/custom. I guess modern people are somehow better then the first 1970 years worth of souls.

 

[adrift]

For 1970 years the Church thought it was a command from God, or at the very least upheld the law/custom. I guess modern people are somehow better then the first 1970 years worth of souls.

First of all the New Testament did not even exist 1970 years ago in 1970.
Second you still haven’t answered what Paul said about women cutting their hair.

 

[PandaBean]

I’m starting to desire the wearing of a veil at mass and I have a few questions:

1. Is there a specific color that should be worn? I’ve heard white for un-married and black for married.
2. At what age should a girl start wearing a veil? I have a baby girl and want her to grow up with this practice.
3. Ummmm, 3… I thought I had more questions than that!

Anyhoo, my reasons for wanting to wear a veil are due to the fact that it is in the Bible, that it is a sign of humility and it is modest. In my parish there are young girls that I know are in high school and are wearing mini skirts and hot pants and tube tops and flip flops and all sorts of immodest clothing, so I am choosing to try to set an example by always wearing a dress or skirt of appropiate length and covering my head in the presence of our Lord and God. I have also decided that I should start receiving the Eucharist on the tounge (sp?) because it is the proper thing to do. I have been abstaining from meat on Fridays simply because I can’t think of something to do to replace that rememberance of Christ’s Passion, as is mandated by the American councel of Catholic bishops.

God Bless!

 

[Convert_in_99]

1. Is there a specific color that should be worn? I’ve heard white for un-married and black for married.
2. At what age should a girl start wearing a veil? I have a baby girl and want her to grow up with this practice.

I do not wear a veil myself, but, having seen others and learning from them I will tell you what I know.

1. I would imagine it is white for VIRGINS, not unmarried. Widows/widowers wear the black too.
2. An infant or toddler will just pull it off and play with it, I am afraid. There’s nothing wrong with starting that young though, as long as its small enough that they won’t wrap the ends around their neck. I knew one girl as young as two who wore a short chapel veil. She was a cutie! If you want them to grow up knowing to wear a veil, I would make certain they are wearing it by 3 or 4! Again, start with a short one, and make sure its light weight, that way they will be more comfortable and less likely to throw tantrums.

I wish you the best. Let us know how it goes!

I have also decided that I should start receiving the Eucharist on the tounge (sp?) because it is the proper thing to do. I have been abstaining from meat on Fridays simply because I can’t think of something to do to replace that rememberance of Christ’s Passion, as is mandated by the American councel of Catholic bishops.

I am with you 100% on these two. Since you are begining to receive communion on the toungue…just a heads up: Make sure you have your hands in a praying position, as the Eucharistic Ministers sometimes get very confused. I once had an ultra-confused minister put Jesus in my PRAYING hands.

I am sorry if I sound irreverent, that is NOT my intention. I am just warning you that it can be very difficult to receive on the tongue, and that most E. M. 's (and some priests for that matter) won’t be as prepared for this. Just make sure you have at least one free hand ready if necessary.

Also, I am glad you are observing the Fridays again. I personally slacked off here for a couple of years :tsktsk: (though, of course, not during lent.:nope: ) But, it has helped me grow closer to God and it has also made my protestant husband more aware of Jesus on those days too! Like you, I am not certain what else to put in its stead, it just seems more natural.

I am so happy you are growing closer to Jesus in these ways.

 

[Tom317]

First of all the New Testament did not even exist 1970 years ago in 1970.
Second you still haven’t answered what Paul said about women cutting their hair.

The hair issue is merely a bait and switch tactic and I have ignored it on purpose…stick with the topic at hand please.

 

[Convert_in_99]

For the woman who wanted to know about the Bible verse, I don’t see what’s the problem with showing her.

Here it is…

First Corinthians Chapter 11, verses 2-16 (Saint Paul speaking):

2 I praise you because you remember me in everything and hold fast to the traditions, just as I handed them on to you.
3 But I want you to know that Christ is the head of every man, and a husband the head of his wife, and God the head of Christ.
4 Any man who prays or prophesies with his head covered brings shame upon his head.
5 But any woman who prays or prophesies with her head unveiled brings shame upon her head, for it is one and the same thing as if she had had her head shaved.
6 For if a woman does not have her head veiled, she may as well have her hair cut off. But if it is shameful for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved, then she should wear a veil.
7 A man, on the other hand, should not cover his head, because he is the image and glory of God, but woman is the glory of man.
8 For man did not come from woman, but woman from man;
9 nor was man created for woman, but woman for man;
10 for this reason a woman should have a sign of authority on her head, because of the angels.
11 Woman is not independent of man or man of woman in the Lord.
**12 **For just as woman came from man, so man is born of woman; but all things are from God.
13 Judge for yourselves: is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head unveiled?
14 Does not nature itself teach you that if a man wears his hair long it is a disgrace to him,
15 whereas if a woman has long hair it is her glory, because long hair has been given (her) for a covering?
16 But if anyone is inclined to be argumentative, we do not have such a custom, nor do the churches of God.