Head Covering During Mass

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I still say this is bait and switch, but here goes anyway:

*But I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, the head of a woman is her husband, and the head of Christ is God.

Any man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head, but any woman who prays or prophesies with her head unveiled dishonors her head*–it is the same as if her head were shaven.

For if a woman will not veil herself, then she should cut off her hair; but if it is disgraceful for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her wear a veil.

For a man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God;** but woman is the glory of man**.

Paul first tells us the proper relationship of God, men and women. Christ is to man as man is to woman.

Paul then describes head coverings, first that man is NOT to wear any and second that woman is to wear head coverings, because if a woman does not wear a covering then she brings dishonor to her head, and in this case Paul is not talking about her physical head, he is talking about her man, for the man is the head of the woman as Christ is the head of the man. This means when a woman dishonors the man, she is also dishonoring Christ, who is the head of the man. Now, this dishonor wrought upon her head, the man, is the same disgrace as if she were bald, cleaned shaven.

Now notice how Paul says “For if a woman will not veil herself,” which is a negative construct, he is accusing the woman here of being unwilling to do what she is called to do, which means since she is prideful, she should then shave her head so all can see her disgrace, yet if the shaved head is too much for her, she should wear a veil. This is important: In every case Paul says the woman should be wearing a veil.

Now, you are quite right that the NT has not been with us for 1970years, but the practice of wearing veils has been, which was my main point.

You also said that wearing veils is not a mandate from God, well the Holy Spirit is God, and Paul wrote under the direction or inspiration of the Holy Spirit and Paul makes it very clear that woman are to wear a veil. So, if you say wearing veils is not a mandate, then you are saying the Holy Spirit (God) made a mistake when He inspired Paul. Then, you will also have to say the Church made a mistake for 1970 years of practicing the custom of women wearing veils in Church, for it has been an unbroken Tradition of the Church since the Church began, which is exactly why it was included in Canon Law in 1917…it was clear to the Church that head coverings reached the strength of Law, so they formally included it in the Law. The 1983 Law does not include the Canon, yuet as I have talked about many times on this thread, there are several 1983 Canons that prove head coverings are still mandated.
Thank you for you explanation. It makes sense. I don’t believe you are correct but at least you have some reason. More clarification is needed. You seem to be saying that the Church cannot abborogate(sp) it. It seems that if it were as you think it is that the Pope would have said something, his teachings are protected by the same Holy Spirit that inspires the Bible. It seems to me to fall under what you loose on earth.
 
Thank you for you explanation. It makes sense. I don’t believe you are correct but at least you have some reason. More clarification is needed. You seem to be saying that the Church cannot abborogate(sp) it. It seems that if it were as you think it is that the Pope would have said something, his teachings are protected by the same Holy Spirit that inspires the Bible. It seems to me to fall under what you loose on earth.
There are many things the Church makes no comment about, and could be because it does not find it to be important to re-open, or they might just not have thought about it. There are many challenges to the faith today, it is likely veils is not on the Vatican’s priority list.
 
  • headscarves (chiffon, nylon, cloth triangles with strings, babushkas).
My great-aunt had some of those – transparent cloths that look like they could rip easily.

In the 80s/90s, schools used them in gym class for dancing and juggling. 🙂
 
My great-aunt had some of those – transparent cloths that look like they could rip easily.

In the 80s/90s, schools used them in gym class for dancing and juggling. 🙂
I am betting it wasn’t babushkas they were juggling. But I can see the chiffon scarves flying thru the air.
I don’t think it would be easy to juggle my 36 X 36 silk scarves.
 
I’m sorry, but I do get the impression from this thread that a lot of people seem to think that men are more important in the church then woman. People were talking about how some woman come to church in immodest clothing, well, what about the men that come in jeans and a t-shirt, it’s disrespectful. The priest at my church has said that it is not required for woman to cover their heads. I’ll believe him over the know it alls of this site.
 
I’m sorry, but I do get the impression from this thread that a lot of people seem to think that men are more important in the church then woman. People were talking about how some woman come to church in immodest clothing, well, what about the men that come in jeans and a t-shirt, it’s disrespectful. The priest at my church has said that it is not required for woman to cover their heads. I’ll believe him over the know it alls of this site.
Men are definitely NOT more important, just different, and you are correct, men should be held to respectful attire as well.

If your Priest is proved wrong, would you wear a head covering?
 
Men are definitely NOT more important, just different, and you are correct, men should be held to respectful attire as well.

If your Priest is proved wrong, would you wear a head covering?
I actually DO wear a head covering. Not because I feel I have to or am being forced to, but because i want to.
My Priest is right. He knows the church laws, history, all that stuff inside out.
 
I actually DO wear a head covering. Not because I feel I have to or am being forced to, but because i want to.
My Priest is right. He knows the church laws, history, all that stuff inside out.
Many Priests do not know the arguements for head coverings, they think that the 1983 settled the matter, but it does not. I think a great many Priests would feel very uncomfortable telling women they had to wear head coverings in this anti-faith culture.
 
Many Priests do not know the arguements for head coverings, they think that the 1983 settled the matter, but it does not. I think a great many Priests would feel very uncomfortable telling women they had to wear head coverings in this anti-faith culture.
Jimmy Akin says it is OK. Search his name in these forums.

Colin Donovan says it is OK, and he works for EWTN. Search these forums for his name.

My very orthodox bishop said it’s OK.

It DOES settle the matter, for now. Those women who choose to wear a head covering may. Those whochoose not to do are under no pain of sin or any other obligation to do so. It is not a mtter of priests telling women they have to do this, or not do it. It is a personal preference.

And those chiffon headsacrves didn’t tear- they ran, much like a pair of panty hose.😃
 
Jimmy Akin says it is OK. Search his name in these forums.

Colin Donovan says it is OK, and he works for EWTN. Search these forums for his name.

My very orthodox bishop said it’s OK.

It DOES settle the matter, for now. Those women who choose to wear a head covering may. Those whochoose not to do are under no pain of sin or any other obligation to do so. It is not a mtter of priests telling women they have to do this, or not do it. It is a personal preference.

And those chiffon headsacrves didn’t tear- they ran, much like a pair of panty hose.😃
I believe they are wrong, and I am hoping to prove it. Neither Jimmy Akin, nor Colin Donovan, speak for the Church, it is merely their personal opinion, nothing more. They base their case on very loose readings the 1983 Canon Law, imo. I am hoping the Vatican will rule on this definitively. If you have an open mind, go to these links and read them in their entirety:

Responses to Colin Donovan

catholicintl.com/epologetics/articles/pastoral/head-covering1.htm

catholicintl.com/epologetics/articles/pastoral/covering.htm

Responses to Jimmy Akin

catholicintl.com/epologetics/articles/pastoral/donovan-veils.htm
 
I’m sorry, but I do get the impression from this thread that a lot of people seem to think that men are more important in the church then woman. People were talking about how some woman come to church in immodest clothing, well, what about the men that come in jeans and a t-shirt, it’s disrespectful. The priest at my church has said that it is not required for woman to cover their heads. I’ll believe him over the know it alls of this site.
Know it alls?

Men dressed in t shirts and jeans may be disrespectful. But generally they do not inspire lust in the women who see them

Low neck shirts. Tight short skirts/ pants/ shorts. Women at our parish seem to be wearing more and more immodest clothing. Yes I think it’s disrespectful. And I understand from men that it distracts them from the mass in a very different way than when women see men in sloppy clothes.
 
Know it alls?

Men dressed in t shirts and jeans may be disrespectful. But generally they do not inspire lust in the women who see them

Low neck shirts. Tight short skirts/ pants/ shorts. Women at our parish seem to be wearing more and more immodest clothing. Yes I think it’s disrespectful. And I understand from men that it distracts them from the mass in a very different way than when women see men in sloppy clothes.
At least these woman are in church. At my church 99.9% of parishoners are woman.
I asked one of the Priests at my church about how people dress at mass. And he said that to many Priests it doesn’t matter. The fact that their in church is what counts.
 
At least these woman are in church. At my church 99.9% of parishoners are woman.
I asked one of the Priests at my church about how people dress at mass. And he said that to many Priests it doesn’t matter. The fact that their in church is what counts.
99.9%? How can that be?
 
I have read this string with great interest, since I was raised in a protestant denomination that STILL has the tradition and custom of women covering their heads. (There are actually several who STILL DO – Amish, Mennonite, Apostolic Christian, and various sects which branched off of the list.) I no longer attend any of these churches who retained the custom, but have a question about this part of the Corinthian passage:

**10 Therefore ought the woman to have a power over her head, because of the angels. **

No matter how many times I have read this passage, the phrase "because of the angels" jumps out at me. This part does NOT seem like a non-spiritual reasoning for the custom. Even though I have not attended my childhood church for many years, I have never quite lost the conviction that headcoverings, long hair, or veils are not somehow important. I remember when Catholics shared this tradition and thought it was great.

If women praying or prophesying are told to veil or cover their heads, and the angels are part of the reason, why does no one consider this part of the passage? What if there is some special grace which is granted to women who pray with their heads covered? What about the part about the POWER?

1Cr 11:10 For this cause ought the woman to have power on [her] head
If the churches went back to this custom, I would gladly submit - especially if the angels care and watch me. It would be just a matter of submission to authority – both to God’s Word and to the teachings of the church.
 
Cannon law actually states women must wear a head covering. For a teaching of the Magisterium to be infallible, it must be in accordance with holy Scripture- no teaching is in discordance if read in the Holy Spriit, as Christ teaches in John 16-20.

Getting this teaching across to other christians, including our spouses if we have one, is very important, especially in this time where many dark writings and false teachings are rising up to lead us astray wherever possible.

From fisheaters.com/theveil.html, I quote the following which I pray you my brethren and readers of good-will read with a prayer for the Spirit of Truth, of Christ, for guidance;

Christian veiling is a very serious matter, and not one that “just” concerns Canon Law, but also two millennia of Church Tradition – which extends back to Old Testament tradition and to New Testament admonitions. St. Paul wrote.

1 Corinthians 11:1-17:
Be ye followers of me, as I also am of Christ. Now I praise you, brethren, that in all things you are mindful of me and keep my ordinances as I have delivered them to you. But I would have you know that the head of every man is Christ: and the head of the woman is the man: and the head of Christ is God. Every man praying or prophesying with his head covered disgraceth his head. But every woman praying or prophesying with her head not covered disgraceth her head: for it is all one as if she were shaven. For if a woman be not covered, let her be shorn. But if it be a shame to a woman to be shorn or made bald, let her cover her head. The man indeed ought not to cover his head: because he is the image and glory of God. But the woman is the glory of the man. For the man is not of the woman: but the woman of the man [c.f. Genesis 2-3]. For the man was not created for the woman: but the woman for the man. Therefore ought the woman to have a power over her head, because of the angels. But yet neither is the man without the woman, nor the woman without the man, in the Lord. For as the woman is of the man, so also is the man by the woman: but all things of God. You yourselves judge. Doth it become a woman to pray unto God uncovered? Doth not even nature itself teach you that a man indeed, if he nourish his hair, it is a shame unto him? But if a woman nourish her hair, it is a glory to her; for her hair is given to her for a covering. But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, nor the Church of God *. Now this I ordain: not praising you, that you come together, not for the better, but for the worse.

Canons 20-21 of the 1983 Code of Canon Law make clear that later Canon Law abrogates earlier Canon Law only when this is made explicit and that, in cases of doubt, the revocation of earlier law is not to be presumed; quite the opposite:
Canon 20 A later law abrogates or derogates from an earlier law, if it expressly so states, or if it is directly contrary to that law, or if it integrally reorders the whole subject matter of the earlier law. A universal law, however, does not derogate from a particular or from a special law, unless the law expressly provides otherwise.

Canon 21 In doubt, the revocation of a previous law is not presumed; rather, later laws are to be related to earlier ones and, as far as possible, harmonized with them.
Canons 27 and 28 add to the argument:

Canon 27 Custom is the best interpreter of laws.

Canon 28 Without prejudice to the provisions of can. 5, a custom, whether contrary to or apart from the law, is revoked by a contrary custom or law. But unless the law makes express mention of them, it does not revoke centennial or immemorial customs, nor does a universal law revoke particular customs.
Hence, according to Canon Law and immemorial custom, women are still to veil themselves.*
 
I personally don’t cover my head in Mass because the one time I did, someone came to my husband and said (and this is a direct quote) “Will you PLEASE tell your wife this is NOT the 1400’s.” So, though I think it is a beautiful tradition that would allow me to show a little bit of extra reverence, I don’t because it attracted undue attention. Further, it is actually difficult to even find a chapel veil (or mantilla) to purchase these days. Sad, but that is how it is. Perhaps if I had more courage to be the one person who is different than everybody else I could start a new trend, but it seems to me that would be the opposite of the humility I was trying to express in the first place.

All that said, I suspect that if it were trully important to salvation, the Holy Spirit would have prevented its removal/omission.
 
All that said, I suspect that if it were trully important to salvation, the Holy Spirit would have prevented its removal/omission.
If that were the case, the Holy Spirit would have prevented all fallen away Catholics from falling away from the Catholic Church from which we obtain our way to salvation.

But anyway - that’s not my point in quoting you. 😃

I wanted to say that I’m sorry you had a bad experience, that had to be very hurtful for you to hear. I would suggest that you try again. Just because one person had a problem with what you chose to wear to Mass does not mean that there weren’t others there who saw you and though, wow, how beautiful she looks with her head covered. 🙂

I’ve found a bunch of traditional mantilla on eBay, and there are tons of sites on the Internet where you can find them. You have to look, but they are out there, and not horribly expensive.

Be brave! If you felt strongly enough to try the first time, then you obviously felt it was important to you. Please consider trying again, and hopefully you will have a better experience.

~Liza
 
At least these woman are in church. At my church 99.9% of parishoners are woman.
I asked one of the Priests at my church about how people dress at mass. And he said that to many Priests it doesn’t matter. The fact that their in church is what counts.
It counts because it shows disrespect. The kinds of clothing I am speaking of are immodest. I am not talking about fashionable comtemporary clothes. I mean revealing in an off-hand “look at me I’m sexy” sort of way. Club clothes are for partying. Not mass.

And young men in t-shirts that say things like “Pimp in training”. Yes, I saw it at mass.

And Debra,
try thrift and vintage clothing stores for mantillas or they can be bought online.
 
If that were the case, the Holy Spirit would have prevented all fallen away Catholics from falling away from the Catholic Church from which we obtain our way to salvation.
Indeed, I am sure He does, however, free will being as it is and all… There is a big difference, however, in an individual Catholic falling away from the Church, and the Church leading all Catholics (or at least the women, as it may be in this case) away from God. Christ Himself promised us that this will not happen.
I wanted to say that I’m sorry you had a bad experience, that had to be very hurtful for you to hear. I would suggest that you try again. Just because one person had a problem with what you chose to wear to Mass does not mean that there weren’t others there who saw you and though, wow, how beautiful she looks with her head covered. 🙂
In general, I would agree with you. I am not usually one to allow others to dictate my sense of fashion, and have endured many hurtful remarks without changing my behavior. This one was a little different for me though. The whole point for me to wearing the veil was an expression of humility before the body & blood of Christ. It bothered me, not so much that someone else disliked my choice of expression, but that it grabbed so much attention. This kind of defeated my very purpose in the first place. In place of the traditional veil I have been opting for some somewhat creatively disguised methods of at least partially covering my hair (like wide head bands) instead. No one seems to notice this. They think it is a simple fashion accessory. However, it does not completely satisfy the tuggings I feel at my heart to veil myself, either.
I’ve found a bunch of traditional mantilla on eBay, and there are tons of sites on the Internet where you can find them. You have to look, but they are out there, and not horribly expensive.

Be brave! If you felt strongly enough to try the first time, then you obviously felt it was important to you. Please consider trying again, and hopefully you will have a better experience.

~Liza
Yes, I did find some on the Internet, but I had to do some digging for them. In the meantime, I have been praying that the Lord will either send me some moral support, give me the courage I need, or take away the pull at my heart to do this.

Peace,
Debra
 
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