Head Covering During Mass

[Tom317]

It would be great if some of those things you mention actually happened! Can you imagine if men actually did lead their families in the faith like they used to? Can you imagine if all Catholics- laity, priests and bishops were obedient to the Pope and the Magisterium? What if the Church did speak out on the head covering issue and cleared it up once and for all? Would women everywhere obey?

I think that most women would outright reject men taking a the lead.

Women would not obey if the Vatican said head coverings were still mandated, some would of course…but most would not. It is a different world.

 

[Tom317]

I think it is actually on topic. We are discussion that there is canon law saying that head coverings are part of the church. Well if the average person in the pews doesn’t know this then how can you claim that women are ignoring a rule? For example one of the things about Mortal sin is that you know it’s wrong. So women can’t be just “ignoring” a rule if they don’t know it exist in the first place. This is why I am asking where are the shepherds? Were are the teachers? Does it fall to the husbands to correct their wives and teach their daughters? Is the priest to tell the congregation? The pope to tell the world? Who’s responsible?

BTW, the Pope and all clergy should be teaching and so should the men in the families. That is why I say we deserve to be told exactly where things stand with this issue, and with many other issues. Men cannot lead or teach something that the Church will not be courageous about.

 

[paramedicgirl]

I think that most women would outright reject men taking a the lead.

Women would not obey if the Vatican said head coverings were still mandated, some would of course…but most would not. It is a different world.

Only the feminists would object to men taking the lead. Women like men who are strong in their faith and are willing to take a leadership role in the family.

I agree that many women would protest against mandated headcoverings. I honestly can’t see the Vatican issuing any kind of statement on it.

 

[beckers]

Good for you! I hope I can get more comfortable at my NO parish, but I think the problem is, that I have been going there for eleven years, and if I suddenly start showing up wearing a mantilla, people will wonder what I’m trying to prove. I guess that’s part of the humility lesson, though, isn’t it? I know that if we move to another area, and there is no TLM to go to, I will have no problem showing up at the first NO Mass wearing a head covering.

I know how you feel. i don’t know if i could wear it at the chruch i use to go to. i played in the choir and was front and center. Heck i haven’t even told my father what i am doing. (Well he does post on these boards so he might figure it out.) The whole reason i started wearing one about a month ago was so that when i went to a latin Mass i wouldn’t stick out for not wearing one!

I do know of a few times i will not being wearing a head covering (HC). I have some weddings coming up. None of my friends wear HC so out of respect for the bride i won’t even think of wearing one.

 

[Tom317]

Only the feminists would object to men taking the lead. Women like men who are strong in their faith and are willing to take a leadership role in the family.

I think most women today are feminists, even if they do not realize it.

I agree that many women would protest against mandated headcoverings. I honestly can’t see the Vatican issuing any kind of statement on it.

I agree.

 

[beckers]

I think that most women would outright reject men taking a the lead.

Women would not obey if the Vatican said head coverings were still mandated, some would of course…but most would not. It is a different world.

I believe you are wrong Tom. I told 2 girlfirends that i wanted to wear one. One gave me mantilla and the other one sat with me at mass the first time i wore it. No women has come up to me with any negative responses. Also I have told a few of my guy friends and they have been nothing but supportive. They all agreed they loved women who covered their heads and thought it was beautiful tradition.

I may be lucky that the Arch-Diocese of Galveston-Houston has such great and faithful men who blow me a way all the time. Their faith is so pure and filled with such desire to please their Lord. They will all make beautiful fathers and teachers of the faith.

 

[paramedicgirl]

I think most women today are feminists, even if they do not realize it.

Here’s one who’s not.

 

[Tom317]

I believe you are wrong Tom. I told 2 girlfirends that i wanted to wear one. One gave me mantilla and the other one sat with me at mass the first time i wore it. No women has come up to me with any negative responses. Also I have told a few of my guy friends and they have been nothing but supportive. They all agreed they loved women who covered their heads and thought it was beautiful tradition.

I may be lucky that the Arch-Diocese of Galveston-Houston has such great and faithful men who blow me a way all the time. Their faith is so pure and filled with such desire to please their Lord. They will all make beautiful fathers and teachers of the faith.

I still feel I am correct, yet it does seem the Lord has blessed you very deeply.

 

[Tom317]

Here’s one who’s not.

Yes, I figured as much.

 

[Aramis]

I am betting it wasn’t babushkas they were juggling. But I can see the chiffon scarves flying thru the air.
I don’t think it would be easy to juggle my 36 X 36 silk scarves.

I’ve used that size scarf in my classroom when I long-term subbed in Music Education.

That being said (and somewhat off topic), I’m not a big “traditionalist” in the sense that most on this forum would see it…

But my daughter has chosen to wear a mantilla to church. Jeans, t-shirt, and mantilla…

She wanted it, I felt no problem with her having one. Far more appropriate, to my mind, than the tiara-style veils the others wore for 1st communion (she made hers two weeks ago).

 

[lizaanne]

But my daughter has chosen to wear a mantilla to church. Jeans, t-shirt, and mantilla…

Good for her! Yesterday for adoration I wore a sheer black chiffon oblong scarf with big white polka dots on it.

Hey - my head was covered, and it was what I had at hand. I don’t think I have to look like grandma just to cover my head. It’s the devotion that matters, not the method. Some women feel fine with a wide head band, I feel better having my hair covered. I’m not about to get all legalistic with folks over it.

I think your daughter is doing a very cool thing and sending a good strong image to other girls.

~Liza

 

[4HisChurch]

I am starting to cover during Mass. (Just wanted you all to know where I was coming from personally.) However, I saw this, this morning on Zenit:

ROME, MAY 22, 2007 (Zenit.org).- Answered by Father Edward McNamara, professor of liturgy at the Regina Apostolorum university.

Q: A friend of mine told me that according to the Scriptures a woman should cover her head in the presence of Our Lord (holy Eucharist/during Mass). In our churches this is not practiced. Can you please write and tell me as to how and when the practice of women covering their heads came to an end, or is it that we are doing something which is not proper? – J.M., Doha, Qatar

A: The Scripture text referred to is probably 1 Corinthians 11:4-16:

"Any man who prays or prophesies with his head covered brings shame upon his head. But any woman who prays or prophesies with her head unveiled brings shame upon her head, for it is one and the same thing as if she had had her head shaved. For if a woman does not have her head veiled, she may as well have her hair cut off. But if it is shameful for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved, then she should wear a veil. A man, on the other hand, should not cover his head, because he is the image and glory of God, but woman is the glory of man. For man did not come from woman, but woman from man; nor was man created for woman, but woman for man; for this reason a woman should have a sign of authority on her head, because of the angels. Woman is not independent of man or man of woman in the Lord. For just as woman came from man, so man is born of woman; but all things are from God…

[Edited by Moderator]

 

[Tom317]

I am starting to cover during Mass. (Just wanted you all to know where I was coming from personally.) However, I saw this, this morning on Zenit:

ROME, MAY 22, 2007 (Zenit.org).- Answered by Father Edward McNamara, professor of liturgy at the Regina Apostolorum university.

A full treatment of this text is beyond the scope of this column. But we may say that this passage contains some elements that have perennial theological value and others which reflect transitory social mores which apply only to the specific time and place of the Corinthians.

For example, during the course of history there were times when it was common for men, and even clerics, to wear their hair long; and none felt that St. Paul’s words considering the practice a disgrace applied to them.

Likewise, liturgical norms tell bishops to keep their skullcaps on during some of the prayers during Mass, and they may use the mitre while preaching, without falling under St. Paul’s injunction that this practice brings shame upon his head. The norms, however, do ask him to remove his head covering for the Eucharistic Prayer and when the Blessed Sacrament is exposed.

Apart from bishops, and some canons, custom still dictates that all other men should uncover their heads in church except for outdoor Masses.

During St. Paul’s time it was considered modest for a woman to cover her head, and he was underscoring this point for their presence in the liturgical assembly.

This custom was considered normative and was enshrined in Canon 1262.2 of the 1917 Code of Canon Law alongside the recommendation that men and women be separated in Church and that men go bareheaded. This canon was dropped from the new Code of Canon Law promulgated in 1983, but the practice had already begun to fall into disuse from about the beginning of the 1970s. Even though no longer legally binding, the custom is still widely practiced in some countries, especially in Asia. It has been generally abandoned in most Western countries even though women, unlike men, may still wear hats and veils to Mass if they choose.

Sociological factors might also have been involved. The greater emphasis on the equality of man and woman tended to downplay elements that stressed their differences.

Likewise, for the first time in centuries, not donning a hat outdoors, especially for men, ceased being considered as bad manners, whereas up to a few years beforehand it was deemed unseemly to go around hatless.

This general dropping of head covering by both sexes may also have influenced the disappearance of the religious custom.

Again, even in this response, other canons of the 1983 code are being ignored. However, even if the head covering law is now abrogated, then so is the law stating men cannot wear hats in Church. Please show us the specific canon in the 1983 code that says men cannot wear hats in Church. Now, according to the thesis put forward by most people, if a practice is not governed by the law, then people can do as they please (heading coverings were dropped from the law in 83, so women can stop wearing head coverings).

This means that since men are not specifically told to NOT wear hats in Church (as they were in the 1917 law and that law was dropped), then men are free to wear hats in Church. Anything else is just gender discrimination (this is true because the Church is saying men must continue to follow the 1917 law, even though it has been dropped, while women do not have to follow).

Cultural customs will dictate that it is poor taste for a man to wear a hat in Church, but they are still free to wear them because the law is silent, right?

 

[Tom317]

Update on my attempt to foward my query regarding head coverings for women:

It does not look good to get a definitive reply from the Vatican (no surprise there), regarding this issue.

So far, I am being told that head coverings are not required, but I have not been told why, nor have I received anything telling me/us why it is okay to ignore many Canons in the 1983 Code.

When/if I hear or receive more, I will post it here. If I do not hear anything further, then this issue will be a concluded topic for me.

Thank you.

 

[paramedicgirl]

I am starting to cover during Mass. (Just wanted you all to know where I was coming from personally.) However, I saw this, this morning on Zenit:

ROME, MAY 22, 2007 (Zenit.org).- Answered by Father Edward McNamara, professor of liturgy at the Regina Apostolorum university.

Q: A friend of mine told me that according to the Scriptures a woman should cover her head in the presence of Our Lord (holy Eucharist/during Mass). In our churches this is not practiced. Can you please write and tell me as to how and when the practice of women covering their heads came to an end, or is it that we are doing something which is not proper? – J.M., Doha, Qatar

A: The Scripture text referred to is probably 1 Corinthians 11:4-16:

"Any man who prays or prophesies with his head covered brings shame upon his head. But any woman who prays or prophesies with her head unveiled brings shame upon her head, for it is one and the same thing as if she had had her head shaved. For if a woman does not have her head veiled, she may as well have her hair cut off. But if it is shameful for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved, then she should wear a veil. A man, on the other hand, should not cover his head, because he is the image and glory of God, but woman is the glory of man. For man did not come from woman, but woman from man; nor was man created for woman, but woman for man; for this reason a woman should have a sign of authority on her head, because of the angels. Woman is not independent of man or man of woman in the Lord. For just as woman came from man, so man is born of woman; but all things are from God…

[Edited by Moderator]

Can you provide a link for the rest of Father McNamara’s answer?

 

[paramedicgirl]

Again, even in this response, other canons of the 1983 code are being ignored. However, even if the head covering law is now abrogated, then so is the law stating men cannot wear hats in Church. Please show us the specific canon in the 1983 code that says men cannot wear hats in Church. Now, according to the thesis put forward by most people, if a practice is not governed by the law, then people can do as they please (heading coverings were dropped from the law in 83, so women can stop wearing head coverings).

This means that since men are not specifically told to NOT wear hats in Church (as they were in the 1917 law and that law was dropped), then men are free to wear hats in Church. Anything else is just gender discrimination (this is true because the Church is saying men must continue to follow the 1917 law, even though it has been dropped, while women do not have to follow).

Cultural customs will dictate that it is poor taste for a man to wear a hat in Church, but they are still free to wear them because the law is silent, right?

That’s actually a good point. I have seen ushers come up to men in my church and remove their ball caps from their heads. But I’ve never seen an usher place a head covering on a female.

 

[Tom317]

That’s actually a good point. I have seen ushers come up to men in my church and remove their ball caps from their heads. But I’ve never seen an usher place a head covering on a female.

Yes, of course it is wrong for men to wear hats in church. I am just trying to point out some hypocrisy with this issue. On ne hand it is fine that women are no longer held to wearing head coverings, but then on the other hand men are still held to the law/custom of not wearing hats in Church. It is gender discrimination, plain and simple. If the law no longer applies, then it no longer applies in tis entirety, which included men not wearing hats.

 

[SherryLynn9]

I wear one whenever I go to the TLM, but at my local Novus Ordo parish, I don’t, because I would feel really conspicuous. I would be the only one there doing so, and at this point, I would be uncomfortable with it.

I’m a convert, class of 2005. I attend a NO mass. I feel like I’ve missed out on so much. I have recently began to wear a head covering to mass and adoration (for two weeks to be exact.) Scarves & shawls though, not lace mantilas. No one has looked at me strangely, and no one has made comments. No one is making me wear one, no one suggested I wear one. This is my choice, it is between me and God. Yes, it would be nice to “know” what the “Head Office” has to say about it. Pardon me if that seemed irreverant.

Sherry

 

[BarbG]

I am a “cradle” Catholic so for many years I always wore either a hat to Church or a scarf on my head. I still feel it is important to dress properly for Church. I try to go to Mass every day and never wear jeans, keds, etc. I dress appropriately because it’s so important that I receive Jesus in the Eucharist and that He knows that He is my Savior. In this way I feel strongly that Jesus stays with me for the entire day.

 

[maryelizabeth2]

I was reading the posts on this thread and thought came to me.
I think that some women who were celebrating mass with the Pope would cover their heads in some form. I know I certainly would! Even women like Laura Bush, who I don’t think is Catholic, covers her head when meeting with the Pope.
I find it funny that women would cover their heads when meeting the Pope, but not feel comfortable to cover their heads when recieving Jesus in the Eucharist.
I think it’s a beautiful tradition that has been lost, and it’s sad that people have to be judgmental about it.