Head Covering During Mass

[Tom317]

If the church formally states that women should wear head coverings, I would wear one. No matter how ridiculous I would look.

Of course, I haven’t laughed off the contraceptive rule either.

Thank you, but I was not talking about faithful Catholic women, which you obviously are.

 

[Tom317]

In this case, I would wear a head covering (in church), but it is highly unlikely I would wear a mantilla. Mantillas are not part of my cultural background; wearing one would make as much sense to me as wearing a grass skirt. I would wear a hat.

Thank you, but I was not talking about faithful Catholic women, which you obviously are.

I should have clarified my remarks by saying I know faithful Catholic women would obey.

 

[beckers]

I agree that men should not wear hats, but can’t you see the double standard?

I don’t see it as a double standard. My father taught me that men and women are different by there very nature. Women are mothers not fathers and fathers are not mothers. We each have our own roles with in the faith and within the church. You wife shows you great respect by submitting to your wishes as the head of the household just like you submit to the will of god to treat your wife as you would treat yourself. You should be thankful you have a women who knows her place within God’s plan.

You should stop thinking of this as I being denied a right. Wearing a hat is not a right. You are using the same logic as people who want to create “equality” by allowing women priest. Just because someone else has a different opportunity doesn’t mean you should have those same opportunities. Our very sexes mean we are different!

 

[beckers]

Considering the overall direction of the Church/faith, I have serious doubts that I will make any progress on this issue, it is perceived as un-important when compared to other matters.

However, I do wonder. If the Church formally states that women should continue to wear head coverings, would women in the United States obey, or laugh it off just like contraceptives?

I have faith in the Church. If she declared that women were to wear headcoverings then i would follow Rome and have a veil by the next time i go to mass.

AND what makes you think that only women have laughed off contraceptives. What generation has taught that science and “our feelings” overrule what the church says. Don’t put the blame all on women because I think men and women are both highly guility of this.

 

[beckers]

Thank you, but I was not talking about faithful Catholic women, which you obviously are.

I should have clarified my remarks by saying I know faithful Catholic women would obey.

And what is your definition of a “faithful catholic women”? Do you know their hearts, do you know their struggles or do you only take in what your perceive someone’s faith to be?****

 

[ICXCNIKA]

I was about to say something until i realized you were the OP.

I see that you are trying to be the spiritual head of your household but i just don’t think you should *force *head coverings on to your wife. .

What gives you the impression that I’m trying to force my wife?

 

[Tom317]

And what is your definition of a “faithful catholic women”? Do you know their hearts, do you know their struggles or do you only take in what your perceive someone’s faith to be?****

Any Catholic (man or woman) who follows all of the teachings of the Church are faithful Catholics, those who pick and choose what to follow are not…imo.

 

[Tom317]

I have faith in the Church. If she declared that women were to wear headcoverings then i would follow Rome and have a veil by the next time i go to mass.

AND what makes you think that only women have laughed off contraceptives. What generation has taught that science and “our feelings” overrule what the church says. Don’t put the blame all on women because I think men and women are both highly guility of this.

I never said men are not guilty, condoms are used by many so-called Catholic men.

 

[Tom317]

I don’t see it as a double standard. My father taught me that men and women are different by there very nature. Women are mothers not fathers and fathers are not mothers. We each have our own roles with in the faith and within the church. You wife shows you great respect by submitting to your wishes as the head of the household just like you submit to the will of god to treat your wife as you would treat yourself. You should be thankful you have a women who knows her place within God’s plan.

You should stop thinking of this as I being denied a right. Wearing a hat is not a right. You are using the same logic as people who want to create “equality” by allowing women priest. Just because someone else has a different opportunity doesn’t mean you should have those same opportunities. Our very sexes mean we are different!

God mandated that women wear head coverings and that Divine mandate was followed until the 1983 Canon Law came out, and in that Law the Canon about head coverings was not included (I am sure you know I am trying to get a real response about this). Now, in the 1917 code contained the head covering law, and it also contained a law saying men are not to wear hats in Church. Both of those laws were not included in the 1983 law, so if we are being fair, men should now be able to wear hats in Church. If you do not agree, then you are applying a double standard. The code of Canon Law either applies equally, and fairly, or it is worthless.

Cultural norms have nothing to do with this because the liturgy is governed by Church law, not the culture. I do not think of this as being denied a right because I would not wear a hat inside a Church. My argument is that both laws are still in force, women should be wearing head coverings and men should not be wearing head coverings—by Canon Law! However, if we say women can cease following the mandate, then so can men…it is only fair.

And yes, I also celebrate and honor the wonderful differences between genders.

 

[beckers]

Any Catholic (man or woman) who follows all of the teachings of the Church are faithful Catholics, those who pick and choose what to follow are not…imo.

Yes but how do you KNOW that she follows all the teachings? How can you pick and choose which females you believe are in faithful? Lots of people can speak the speak and not walk the walk.

 

[beckers]

What gives you the impression that I’m trying to force my wife?

I am sorry i am getting everyone confused. I see in your orignal post that you are try to convince your wife to wear one. I still stand by my oringal idea. You have given your wife the material and the reasons why so don’t press to hard. Step back and pray for the holy spirit to work on her heart. Maybe since i am a women who came after Vat II i understand how hard it is to believe and understand the reasons why women should wear headcoverings. you have to de-program yourself from society. It is much easier said then done.

 

[Tom317]

Yes but how do you KNOW that she follows all the teachings? How can you pick and choose which females you believe are in faithful? Lots of people can speak the speak and not walk the walk.

If head coverings are continued and women do not wear them, that is a sign of unfaithfulness.

 

[beckers]

Cultural norms have nothing to do with this because the liturgy is governed by Church law, not the culture. I do not think of this as being denied a right because I would not wear a hat inside a Church. My argument is that both laws are still in force, women should be wearing head coverings and men should not be wearing head coverings—by Canon Law! However, if we say women can cease following the mandate, then so can men…it is only fair.

Since when is anything in the church “fair”? I didn’t see that listed as a commandment. My mother would have given me the look had I said “that’s not fair” and tried to use that as an argument to justify why I wanted to do something. She would have said “Daughter life is not fair and you better learn that lesson now”.

Do you see this head covering issue as the most important thing that the church has to deal with? Do you think we should throw all resources behind making women wearing head coverings? I am sorry but I think there are other issues that we need to address to combat this underlining issue of society losing respect for the church, the Eucharist and God in general.

 

[beckers]

If head coverings are continued and women do not wear them, that is a sign of unfaithfulness.

Well at the moment there is an argument about head coverings and even those in high position in the church are disagreeing and no body will come out with a definitive answer. So how can you just decalre if a women is a faithful catholic women on one item? A women could be wearing a head covering and at the same time be taking Birth Control or having an affair and you would never know. Thats why i am saying that you can’t just percieve someone to be faithful. You give everyone the benefit of the doubt but you can never really know.

 

[Tom317]

Since when is anything in the church “fair”? I didn’t see that listed as a commandment. My mother would have given me the look had I said “that’s not fair” and tried to use that as an argument to justify why I wanted to do something. She would have said “Daughter life is not fair and you better learn that lesson now”.

Do you see this head covering issue as the most important thing that the church has to deal with? Do you think we should throw all resources behind making women wearing head coverings? I am sorry but I think there are other issues that we need to address to combat this underlining issue of society losing respect for the church, the Eucharist and God in general.

Okay, then I will use the word “just.” Certainly we can agree that God is just and that His Church must be just.

I agree there are a ton of issues that are very important. Yet, there has been a huge loss of respect for men in this culture, and that has done nothing but make the faith more troubled. One of the main reasons (not the only one) for women head coverings is that it symbolizes that the husband is the head of the wife (as Christ is the head of the man). It visually reminds us that God has given order to His children and we have nearly completely lost that order. Men no longer have a clue about their divinely given roles and then we are shocked that more women go to Mass, then men. Head coverings seem trivial, but I believe it is a sign of a much larger problem.

 

[Tom317]

Well at the moment there is an argument about head coverings and even those in high position in the church are disagreeing and no body will come out with a definitive answer. So how can you just decalre if a women is a faithful catholic women on one item? A women could be wearing a head covering and at the same time be taking Birth Control or having an affair and you would never know. Thats why i am saying that you can’t just percieve someone to be faithful. You give everyone the benefit of the doubt but you can never really know.

I am saying that “if” the Church declares that head coverings are the law, it will then be easy to see which women are faithful. As it is, many women and men dress horribly to Mass, and that is already an outward sign of unfaithfulness.

 

[beckers]

Okay, then I will use the word “just.” Certainly we can agree that God is just and that His Church must be just.

I agree there are a ton of issues that are very important. Yet, there has been a huge loss of respect for men in this culture, and that has done nothing but make the faith more troubled. One of the main reasons (not the only one) for women head coverings is that it symbolizes that the husband is the head of the wife (as Christ is the head of the man). It visually reminds us that God has given order to His children and we have nearly completely lost that order. Men no longer have a clue about their divinely given roles and then we are shocked that more women go to Mass, then men. Head coverings seem trivial, but I believe it is a sign of a much larger problem.

I agree that men have seem to lost their way in understand their position. They too have problems with society. Society is teaching that men and women are equals and in some cases taking men out of the equation when it comes to creating a family (sperm banks, abortion etc). This is wrong. We are not equal. Men bring so much to the church and their positions should be embraced. We are only complete a family when we have a mother and father.

 

[beckers]

I am saying that “if” the Church declares that head coverings are the law, it will then be easy to see which women are faithful. As it is, many women and men dress horribly to Mass, and that is already an outward sign of unfaithfulness.

I think it is getting into very iffy grounds to declare how faithful someone is by their outward signs.I mean how am i suppose to tell if a man is faithful? There are no outward signs of a mans faith, because it there were my girlfriends and i wouldn’t be sitting in the pews praying for a husband. We would be out populating the world with little catholics!

 

[Tom317]

I agree that men have seem to lost their way in understand their position. They too have problems with society. Society is teaching that men and women are equals and in some cases taking men out of the equation when it comes to creating a family (sperm banks, abortion etc). This is wrong. We are not equal. Men bring so much to the church and their positions should be embraced. We are only complete a family when we have a mother and father.

See, we do agree.

I feel that men have lost the sense of their God given role. They no longer seem to know that God has a special place for them and for women, and that it is not only women who are blessed with God’s gifts. Many women today would reject the idea that the husband is the head of the wife (not all, many).

Anyway, it will not settled any time soon.

 

[Tom317]

I think it is getting into very iffy grounds to declare how faithful someone is by their outward signs.I mean how am i suppose to tell if a man is faithful? There are no outward signs of a mans faith, because it there were my girlfriends and i wouldn’t be sitting in the pews praying for a husband. We would be out populating the world with little catholics!

I really did not mean to get into a “who’s faithful” talk, I was merely saying that faithful Catholic women would wear head coverings if the Church mandated it…that is all I was saying. I think a ton of unfaithful women would not wear head coverings.

I do think the way people dress reflects the depth of their faith, though I agree that is not an absolute measure.