Head coverings..poorly disguised boasting?

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kamz

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Poorly disguised boasting?

I’m curious about the proliferation of topics in which the poster announces that he or she performs such-and-such pious action or habit, and then asks all of us what we think about it. ie. “I pray this many times a day, I lower my head when I see liturgical abuses, I wear a mantilla,” etc.

Obviously, there’s nothing wrong with any of these practices. Why, then, create a post announcing your habit? Do you really want feedback or do you want us all to know that you are, for all appearances, a very holy person? If you believe that what you’re doing is right, then keep doing it; no one’s opinions should stop you. If you believe it might be ostentatious or uncharitable, then don’t do it. Regardless, if it’s not an obvious ethical matter, then it’s simply between you and God and it doesn’t require, to paraphrase the Gospels, a trumpet announcement in the streets.

Some topics are just “curiosity” polls and some involve real discussions where a question of moral conduct is debated, and I don’t refer to either of these. But quite a few topics are formulated in a way that doesn’t invite discussion at all, but seems to involve mere spiritual boasting.

Please believe I intend to attack no one. Really. And I don’t mean to appoint myself supervisor of post-appropriateness. But I’m just so puzzled by these topics. Any thoughts? Have I misunderstood them completely?

Newsong, hope you don’t mind that I cut and pasted this to it’s own thread, I know you posted it to the "let’s wear a veil on Sunday thread but I think it deserves it’s own thread for discussion.
 
no, I don’t mind, I copied and pasted it also, I found it in the search area and thought it was right on the point and probably should have just started a thread. I personally think this has turned into boasting, in my opinion, if not, you would just wear the veil to mass and not need to come on to a message board to tell others.
I haven’t seen anyone in my parish wear a veil or mantilla,not even the nuns, the only people wearing them around my little town are the amish, and the sppx members,😃
 
Can we just retire this topic?

Mods?

Let’s let the waters cool for awhile. In the past it was the Charismatic movement which took all the heat…and now it has shifted to veils.

Historically, it was the CCR which had threads posted and the questions being asked of the original posters are the same old accusations of spiritual pride, no place in the Church,…etc.

This stuff has all the same facets of previous topics, and nothing new will be said than has already been said.

I move we retire this topic NOW rather than keep the vitriol moving.

Whether people like it or not I will wear my veil. If I am attacked by someeon at my parish and look for support, I will come here to look for fellow Catholics with the same devotion.

If I am praying the rosary at a “liberal” parish and looked at oddly, I will come here to talk about it. (This has happened…unfortunately this forum was not in existance at that time).

The OP in this case refers to “general” things but tellingly uses the veil in the thread title. Obviously you know who you will attract. I am guilty of being attracted…so I guess you caught your moth for the night.

Give it a rest. People are not going to change because you accuse them. People are not going to stop posting their questions and the idea that someone is posting out of some kind of spiritual pride, quite honestly, is between that person and God and for no one else to judge.

We are to judge actions, not motivations of actions.

We are to portray mercy…what would Jesus have to say about all of this? He woudl be calling us all pits of vipers for even discussing it further! And he’d be right, no matter what side of the issue we’re on!

So LET IT GO! PLEASE!

Let’s cool this whole thing off and bring it up in a few weeks!
 
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JCPhoenix:
Can we just retire this topic?

Mods?

Let’s let the waters cool for awhile. In the past it was the Charismatic movement which took all the heat…and now it has shifted to veils.

Historically, it was the CCR which had threads posted and the questions being asked of the original posters are the same old accusations of spiritual pride, no place in the Church,…etc.

This stuff has all the same facets of previous topics, and nothing new will be said than has already been said.

I move we retire this topic NOW rather than keep the vitriol moving.

Whether people like it or not I will wear my veil. If I am attacked by someeon at my parish and look for support, I will come here to look for fellow Catholics with the same devotion.

If I am praying the rosary at a “liberal” parish and looked at oddly, I will come here to talk about it. (This has happened…unfortunately this forum was not in existance at that time).

The OP in this case refers to “general” things but tellingly uses the veil in the thread title. Obviously you know who you will attract. I am guilty of being attracted…so I guess you caught your moth for the night.

Give it a rest. People are not going to change because you accuse them. People are not going to stop posting their questions and the idea that someone is posting out of some kind of spiritual pride, quite honestly, is between that person and God and for no one else to judge.

We are to judge actions, not motivations of actions.

We are to portray mercy…what would Jesus have to say about all of this? He woudl be calling us all pits of vipers for even discussing it further! And he’d be right, no matter what side of the issue we’re on!

So LET IT GO! PLEASE!

Let’s cool this whole thing off and bring it up in a few weeks!
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I’ll kindly disagree with you, while newsong posted this original post under “lets all wear a veil Sunday” she was told, take it somewhere else, and I agree, this needed its own thread to talk and that way your thread can be happy, happy, happy and then those who want to discuss how we view it can, why is that not ok, you can talk about happy views on wearing your veils on Sunday but we can’t have our own discussion on what we really think it could be? Then moderators please close down all veil wearing threads, All of them as that is the only way to be fair in this.
thanks 🙂
 
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newsong:
no, I don’t mind, I copied and pasted it also, I found it in the search area and thought it was right on the point and probably should have just started a thread. I personally think this has turned into boasting, in my opinion, if not, you would just wear the veil to mass and not need to come on to a message board to tell others.
I haven’t seen anyone in my parish wear a veil or mantilla,not even the nuns, the only people wearing them around my little town are the amish, and the sppx members,😃
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newsong, I also have see the sspx members wearing the veils, there is an sspx not far from my home.
Also, we have a lot of Russian imigrants in our town and surrounding areas and they wear a head covering at all times, the women and girls, I have spoken with several at a craft sale and they wear theirs as a form of submission to their husband, not to God, they are brought up to believe the husband is total control and even if they are treated poorly or abused you must stay with your husband no matter what, stand by your man no matter what or how he treats you, they think of themselves as less than men, not as worthy, very disturbing. 😦
 
I am so surprised at the amount of speculations and judgment people would put forth trying to figure out the motive behind why some women prefer to wear veils at Mass. Nobody should or can judge anyone’s motive. Only God knows what is in the heart of a person. I have a very good friend who wears a veil to Mass. She feels that she is honoring the Lord this way, and she has every right to do this, to profess her faith. After all, she goes to Mass to adore God and not to please or displease man. This is not pride. In fact, just the opposite. It takes a lot of humility to be able to stand up to other people’s judgmentalism and mockery.

**Matthew 7:1-5 says:
"Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and the measure you give will be the measure you get. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?
Or how can you say to your brother, `Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye?
You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye.
**

Teresa
 
I understand all that, but, why come onto a message board and tell about it? If I do something for God that is so personal and just for him, why do I feel the need to post and talk about it? If you need to share, then share at home with husband, sister, kids, mother, but why come on to a message board and tell?
I think anything is open for discussion when you put it out there, if you don’t want the pro’s and con’s don’t write about it in the first place, right? Your going to get some hey, way to go and some hey, what are your reasons for posting about this?? But, you have to be able to handle that if your going to post in the first place, kinda like, if you can’t take the heat, get out of the kitchen, know what I mean 🙂
 
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kamz:
I understand all that, but, why come onto a message board and tell about it? If I do something for God that is so personal and just for him, why do I feel the need to post and talk about it? If you need to share, then share at home with husband, sister, kids, mother, but why come on to a message board and tell?
I think anything is open for discussion when you put it out there, if you don’t want the pro’s and con’s don’t write about it in the first place, right? Your going to get some hey, way to go and some hey, what are your reasons for posting about this?? But, you have to be able to handle that if your going to post in the first place, kinda like, if you can’t take the heat, get out of the kitchen, know what I mean 🙂
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Why NOT come to a CATHOLIC message board and talk about something with other CATHOLICS?

Don’t you see kind of a “duh” in your own question?

Some peopel don’t have brother, husband, wife, sister., etc. to share things with.

When I cam back to the Church, I had no one to go to. I was not getting along with my mother and to this day I do not look to her for advice due to her mental illnes and the fact that she comes to me…I have nothing there to help me reasong things out. I love her but she does not have the ability to assist with these types of issues.

I came to these boards and found a wealth of information, a way to quench my thirst for God, for talking to those who shared my faith, and a way to share experiences. You would not believe how my faith has grown all because I had the ability to find people to talk to

One cannot exactly walk into an actual church building anywhwere and start a conversation with more than one person on a given topic. Try it…you will not find in a parish hall what you do here.

So we come here…all of us…to use these boards for the purpose for which it is intended.

And who cares what people we have never met think of us? So you may not like the fact that I wear a veil…or maybe I’m just saying I waear a veil to get your reaction. Does it really matter? Why do you and people with your attitude have to continually assume that if someone posts an experience hoping that others wil share their own that they have an ulterior motive?

I have to question what your ulterior motive happens to be.

My mother taught me over and over as a child…when you point a finger at someone, you have 4 pointing back at yourself.

So stop pointing fingers, please put an end to this topic for now.

If you must go on with a general topic, I ask in all charity that you post a new thread without a reference to veils. This is too “hot” of a topic for now and peopel are getting or are feeling burned.

It is not fair to pounce as you are doing so proudly.

And if it’s not your personal kitchen, may I suggest you stay out of it?
 
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kamz:
I understand all that, but, why come onto a message board and tell about it? If I do something for God that is so personal and just for him, why do I feel the need to post and talk about it? If you need to share, then share at home with husband, sister, kids, mother, but why come on to a message board and tell?
I think anything is open for discussion when you put it out there, if you don’t want the pro’s and con’s don’t write about it in the first place, right? Your going to get some hey, way to go and some hey, what are your reasons for posting about this?? But, you have to be able to handle that if your going to post in the first place, kinda like, if you can’t take the heat, get out of the kitchen, know what I mean 🙂
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I think those that post about head coverings are looking for support and courage from others who either are wearing them or are considering the idea. Yes there are some who are militant about it, but I think most feel it’s something between them and Jesus. No one wants to be judged, and if you’re doing something different from the majority that’s likely to happen.

I have considered it for a while, I do not want those around me thinking that I feel I am more pious then they are and I do not want to be a distraction. In addition it’s something I’ve never done before which makes me somewhat self conscious, and I don’t it to be a distraction to my own focus at Mass.

I would love for it to be the norm, then I would do it in heart beat. I fully believe the latest thread on head coverings was about seeking support and encouragement for the who feel called to this particular practice.
 
I am truely sorry you feel this way, I am not attacking you but I do belive just as there is a thread called “lets wear our veils to church on Oct2” there can be a thread for us who don’t wear veils to have a discussion. I"m not going into the other thread anymore, I don’t care if you want to wear a veil but I do care that my kids are very impressionable right now and I have to ask myself, how will I explain this or that and if a bunch of women show up in veils one Sunday when there had never been before, my kids would want to know why and I really would not know what to tell them because although I’m sure there are many people who do it all for the right reasons there are just as many who do it for “look at me reasons” and my kids are the type that would point and be whispering etc. they have only seen the sspx members wear veils as we see them go to church from our home and my daughter said, why do they do that and I told her, they are not in line with the Pope right now, they don’t accept the teachings of the Catholic church of now but of old days and ways and if I wanted that life for my kids we would be sspx members but I don’t want that for them. I’m just very, very grateful our parish doesn’t have any veil wearing folks, not even the nuns, oh on this or that occasion they might but not very often.
I’m sorry you don’t think I have a right to voice my opinion but I really feel my opinion is just as important as yours.
I mean you no harm at all and I did not start this post, I reposted someone else’s post since they put it in the wrong area and were told, we are not listening to this here.
Peace 🙂
by the way, this was in reply to JC Phoniex
 
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rayne89:
I think those that post about head coverings are looking for support and courage from others who either are wearing them or are considering the idea. Yes there are some who are militant about it, but I think most feel it’s something between them and Jesus. No one wants to be judged, and if you’re doing something different from the majority that’s likely to happen.

I have considered it for a while, I do not want those around me thinking that I feel I am more pious then they are and I do not want to be a distraction. In addition it’s something I’ve never done before which makes me somewhat self conscious, and I don’t it to be a distraction to my own focus at Mass.

I would love for it to be the norm, then I would do it in heart beat. I fully believe the latest thread on head coverings was about seeking support and encouragement for the who feel called to this particular practice.
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rayne, I agree a lot with you and if this was the norm of today, we would all wear head covering but it is not and I know that I am giving myself totally and completely to God and I don’t need a veil or anything else on my head, God knows it, he see’s through all that, he see’s me standing before him naked, I truely belive he looks right through the clothes, hair, makeup, etc.
I think it certainly can be a distraction and the focus should be on mass. If I need to cover my head I need to ask myself, why? why when the Catholic church that I love so much is telling me “you don’t need to do that anymore” I still do it? But, we are told over and over, you must listen to the Catholic church but then, what? Not on this, pick and choose what we will and won’t do?
If they say no kneeling during communion and you say, well, no, I’m doing it anyway, etc. etc. to me, that is picking and choosing, I’ve been to a sspx many years ago when my old school friend invited me, I wanted to see what it was all about…well, it was like going back 50 years in time, it was my mom’s childhood, it was lets live in the past and not move forward and I don’t think that is what God wants for us and everyone there wore the head coverings etc. and everything was soooooo serious you would swear you were at a funeral, there was nothing that made me feel like “I am in the presence of my loving father, who loves me for just me” very depressing.
But, anyways, I’m just stating how I feel and I do totally respect how you feel. and I have gotta get ready for bed, its midnight. 😃
 
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kamz:
I don’t care if you want to wear a veil but I do care that my kids are very impressionable right now and I have to ask myself, how will I explain this or that and if a bunch of women show up in veils one Sunday when there had never been before, my kids would want to know why and I really would not know what to tell them because although I’m sure there are many people who do it all for the right reasons there are just as many who do it for “look at me reasons” and my kids are the type that would point and be whispering etc. they have only seen the sspx members wear veils as we see them go to church from our home and my daughter said, why do they do that and I told her, they are not in line with the Pope right now, they don’t accept the teachings of the Catholic church of now but of old days and ways and if I wanted that life for my kids we would be sspx members but I don’t want that for them.
Peace 🙂
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Just curious, are your concerns for the immodest dress of women at Holy Mass as strong as they are for women who make impressions on your children by wearing veils?
 
It would seem that for us to speculate why so and so is doing such and such isn’t our business unless they tell us why. At this point, all we know is that they feel called to do it and are looking for support to do what they are called to do. Their reasoning for wearing veils and for discussing their wearing of veils is between them and God. We can always just not read the posts. Now if someone want to say that we are all bound to do this, then I say it’s open season to charitably correct this misconception. If someone attacks another for wearing or not wearing a veil, then we can agains charitably point out that it’s uncharitable. We’re all going to have to answer to God for our doings. Why is everyone so concerned about this? Forest-Pine is just trying to offer support to those who feeled called to do this but are feeling a nervous about the reaction. Let’s face it, there are uncharitable people on both sides of this issue.
 
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kamz:
I am truely sorry you feel this way, I am not attacking you but I do belive just as there is a thread called “lets wear our veils to church on Oct2” there can be a thread for us who don’t wear veils to have a discussion. I"m not going into the other thread anymore, I don’t care if you want to wear a veil but I do care that my kids are very impressionable right now and I have to ask myself, how will I explain this or that and if a bunch of women show up in veils one Sunday when there had never been before, my kids would want to know why and I really would not know what to tell them because although I’m sure there are many people who do it all for the right reasons there are just as many who do it for “look at me reasons” and my kids are the type that would point and be whispering etc. they have only seen the sspx members wear veils as we see them go to church from our home and my daughter said, why do they do that and I told her, they are not in line with the Pope right now, they don’t accept the teachings of the Catholic church of now but of old days and ways and if I wanted that life for my kids we would be sspx members but I don’t want that for them. I’m just very, very grateful our parish doesn’t have any veil wearing folks, not even the nuns, oh on this or that occasion they might but not very often.
I’m sorry you don’t think I have a right to voice my opinion but I really feel my opinion is just as important as yours.
I mean you no harm at all and I did not start this post, I reposted someone else’s post since they put it in the wrong area and were told, we are not listening to this here.
Peace 🙂
by the way, this was in reply to JC Phoniex
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It is very presumptious to think that just because a woman wears a veil, she belongs to SSPX. You should be able to explain to your children that if they saw some people in a veil, that they should not judge them and not even think they have a right to know why they are wearing veils.
God bless,
Teresa
 
I get what the OP means by the uprise of posts discussing many things that smell vaguely of some sort of who-is-a-better-Catholic kind of thing, and then there are the threads which seem to truly be made up of a wow-I-tried-this-today-and-it-made-me-feel-wonderful thing. I also understand it from the side of people who are posting threads looking for support regarding whatever topic they have started, and feeling nervous, or harrassed, or belittled. At the end of the day, we’re all human. Some of us seek to do things for good, honest reasons, and some make it a contest of being the MVP of a group.

I think no one should feel that they cannot express their praise or criticism on an issue, but that at all times it’s best for all if we try to stay away from attacking one another. People who seem sensitive in their faith, or perhaps don’t need much coaxing to give up a practice probably should bow out of discussions early, because no one would wish for anyone to run off from the Church based on a heated conversation on an online forum.

My own opinion is that one can tell the posts that seem genuine from the ones that seem to be a "look at me"deal. Even those people who are doing it for attention deserve our thoughts and prayers so they can have their eyes opened to know they don’t have to show off for anyone here. Likewise, no one has to showoff how well they can put someone in their place either.

So, to those who do things for the “look at me” factor, I hope your eyes are opened. For those who find some new way of keeping their faith anew, more power to you. To all who rejoice in that they don’t have to follow certain “norms” anymore, be happy!
 
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tgerlinger143:
It is very presumptious to think that just because a woman wears a veil, she belongs to SSPX. You should be able to explain to your children that if they saw some people in a veil, that they should not judge them and not even think they have a right to know why they are wearing veils.
God bless,
Teresa
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I completely agree. I do not have an opinion one way or the other about wearing veils.

But I do think it is an odd thing to be worried about having to "explain " to your children. If you have to explain every single thing (tube tops, flip flops, veils, saying the rosary during Mass, the priest commiting a liturgical abuse…etc) then you probably are spending all of your time with explainations.

Letting your kids know that wearing a veil is a personal choice and we should not speculate about what is in another’s heart should be much quicker. There are many more important issues that will require full explainations.

I think this entire topic is getting out of hand. Why are we so concerned with what others do? Why are we questioning their motives (for either their action or them posting about it)?

Time to pray before reading and responding to any posts. Would God be proud or ashamed by our replies?

Malia
 
thanks Malia, I will keep that in mind.

My 12 year old daughter is very impressionable is all I’m saying, she freaks when she sees women in tube tops, low cut jeans, or anything that doesn’t cover a body, she is very modest.

Anyways…the point is…for those who want to cover their head at mass, that is their right, just like a person has a right to dress in almost nothing and go to mass…that is their right…do I have to agree with their choice? Of course not and they don’t have to agree with mine…we are given free will, we are all humans with our own thoughts and ideas of what works for us and we are all going to differ in our opinions…that said, again, I did not write the original post, I copied and pasted it, I did so because although I did not agree with all of it, I did think it had some valid points that could be discussed and I don’t know what is wrong with that…discussing differing opinions?? I thought that is what these boards were about and hopefully we can all learn a little too.
Peace 🙂
 
Non-veil wearers are the vast, vast majority. Non veil-wearers appear to do and say anything to the miniscule few that either do or want to, to keep them from it. There are always questions of the veil wearers intent, usually in the form of ‘Oh, she thinks she’s a better Catholic than everybody else’, or something like that.

Why are the non-veil wearers so concerned over a piece of cloth? Forget the veil, that’s the way females treat other females on EVERYTHING. It’s truly fearsome. It starts in gradeschool and developes into a fine art form as you age. Let’s just face it, females are just plain mean to other females, especially to those who dare to be different. That’s why you’ll never see my wife ever wear one to mass. Even though she really, really wants to, she won’t, because the cost is simply too high. She will be talked about, she will be accused of all manner of things, she will be scorned, over a stupid piece of cloth.

Things will never change, it’s just in your genes. Whether it’s a stupid piece of cloth, or shoes, or hair, or a guy, females are programed to fight dirty, align friendships and shun offenders in the most painful way, with the intent to scar someone for life. Girls, you’re just plain mean.
 
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