Health care- what's this guy supposed to do?

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Charlotte408 said:
please see my first post on this thread šŸ™‚
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The laws regarding all this vary from state to state. As i understand it the states are mandated as to how low they can go, but not to as high as they can go. The type of help you described in CA is probably not available everywhere, and may not be available in Ca for long, considering their budget problems.
 
Arwen037 said:
Did you have a good job as a manager? And own a nice house? Itā€™s my understanding that you havenā€™t, so you canā€™t compare the two situations. The question was asked, ā€œWhatā€™s this guy supposed to do.ā€ ā€œThis guyā€ made his bed, he has to sleep in it. It sounds like he had the ability to save and prepare, but he chose not to.

Iā€™m sorry youā€™ve had a bad life, but you canā€™t excuse everyone elseā€™s irresponsibility because of it.
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This is what upsets meā€“we donā€™t *know *what he was doing. For all we know, he was putting his kids through college, you know, the colleges whose rates starting climbing like crazy some years ago? Most people do the best they can with what theyā€™ve got, and I donā€™t think itā€™s fair to say this guy didnā€™t just because things didnā€™t turn out well for him.

And I am not saying that there arenā€™t irresponsible people out there, itā€™s just that a lot of peopleā€™s lives are different when you know more about whatā€™s going on then when you just see the outside.
 
St_Francis said:
This is what upsets meā€“we donā€™t *know *what he was doing. For all we know, he was putting his kids through college, you know, the colleges whose rates starting climbing like crazy some years ago? Most people do the best they can with what theyā€™ve got, and I donā€™t think itā€™s fair to say this guy didnā€™t just because things didnā€™t turn out well for him.

And I am not saying that there arenā€™t irresponsible people out there, itā€™s just that a lot of peopleā€™s lives are different when you know more about whatā€™s going on then when you just see the outside.
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Wow you and I totally agree on this aspect!!:cool:
 
I agree that totally random, unforeseeable things to good people every day. And that no one can be prepared for every possible situation.

But as I said before, that doesnā€™t sound like what happened here. How does a person go from owning a large house, to not being able to pay COBRA premiums? He either chose not to, or he didnā€™t actually ā€œownā€ his house, the bank did. Again, that means he either chose the risk, or chose to live above his means (or both).

Also, I think you mis-understand insurance rate increases. Just because the part your employer has you pay went up 400% in a 3 year period, does mean that the actual premium your employer was paying went up that much. For example, If I had to pay nothing, then next year I was asked to pay $20/paycheck, that is an infinite increase. But all along my employer was paying about $10,000/year for my coverage.

I have been with the same employer for 12 years. In that time, the amount they pay has gone from $7000/year to $11,000/year. Thatā€™s about 5-6% per year.
 
My parents helped put me through college, but that doesnā€™t mean they didnā€™t have money set aside in case they lost their jobs. They make sure they can continue to pay all their bills if they lose their job. Not just expect the government to pick up the slack. Also, I think if it was college rates going up that caused the problem, I think that might have been mentioned. But no. The only thing mentioned is that he lost his job.

Several years ago my godmother got really made at her daughter when her daughter bought an expensive car. My godmother pointed out her daughter didnā€™t have enough to pay the bills if she lost her job. Guess what, a few months later her daughter lost her job, so then she lost her car. She shouldnā€™t have gotten that car in the first place because it was above her means. But people here seem to think that the government should have just paid for the car because it wasnā€™t the daughterā€™s fault.
 
Arwen and Wade, all I am saying is that we donā€™t know. We arenā€™t privy to all the decisions he made over the years. Maybe he bought the house at a time when he didnā€™t have to pay anything for his insurance and looked ahead at much lower college tuitions. Or maybe he had no family at all and partied all his money away. Iā€™m just saying that all too often, people think that people in trouble get there by doing the wrong things, and if they had just had their acts together then they wouldnā€™t be in the position they are in.

And FWIW, I am against the current plans for health insurance reform.
 
St.Francis -

Yeah, I agree we donā€™t really know this person, and some people really do everything right and still get destroyed.

But a lot of people do not act responsible. Itā€™s the old Ant & Grasshopper thing. That was really all I was touching onā€¦

And I donā€™t have any real idea how to fix this mess eitherā€¦

Thanks,

-wade
 
Arwen037 said:
My parents helped put me through college, .
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And you say Im spoiled. No one helped me in college. My parents actually booted me out of the house hoping Id quit college and get a blue collar job. You are spoiled! I am not! I got me through college, with no help.
 
Iā€™m not spoiled, but then again I never claimed that Iā€™m entitled to anything other than the money I work for. I also have never claimed that doing chores means I had a bad life.
 
Arwen037 said:
Iā€™m not spoiled, but then again I never claimed that Iā€™m entitled to anything other than the money I work for. I also have never claimed that doing chores means I had a bad life.
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Itā€™s a comparison staterment. I had to work my way through college with parents doing things to try to get me to quit. Your parents gave you help. I had it harder than you did, therefore you were more spoiled than I was. I demand that you stop calling me spoiled. You are likely an average abilitied person from what I gather, Iā€™m learning disabled. It would be harder for me to succede even if I had as easy circumstances as you.
 
Charlotte408 said:
DEAR- its not that you deserve anything, its just LIFE. Thats like arguing why God lets people suffer in this world. NO ONE DESERVES a hard life, but sometimes thats the life you get, and if you dont approach your predicaments pro-actively, then you have no one else but yourself to blame for the end result.

And its not RANDOM chance that heā€™s in the situtation that heā€™s in. A series of events took place that landed him there. There are alternatives and services available for those proactively seeking them. I have no pity for people that would rather sit and wallow in their problems.
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Must be nice being perfect.
 
aspawloski4th said:
Itā€™s a comparison staterment. I had to work my way through college with parents doing things to try to get me to quit. Your parents gave you help. I had it harder than you did, therefore you were more spoiled than I was. I demand that you stop calling me spoiled. You are likely an average abilitied person from what I gather, Iā€™m learning disabled. It would be harder for me to succede even if I had as easy circumstances as you.
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Actually Iā€™m hyperactive. Which is a learning disability. I just donā€™t whine about it. My bf is learning disabled, but he works through it. And if your parents didnā€™t support you, then you should have declared your independence, cut your parents out of your life, and gotten grants. Thatā€™s what my mom had to do. But for me the government thought my parents could have help me more than they could, so my FAFSA said that I didnā€™t need any aid, despite the fact I did.

But whether or not Iā€™m spoiled has no relevance to the conversation. I think that I ought to be allowed to keep what I WORK for. That is not a spoiled mindset. You think things should be handed to you, which is a spoiled mindset, which in turns leads to you thinking that because poor you, youā€™ve had a ā€œhard lifeā€ you should be given everything you think you deserve (including full health care insurance), even if that means taking from other people.
 
opera singing

iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii- aGREE with theeeeeee ABooooOOOOOveā€¦
 
Instead of making this personal, how about we talk about the guy in the original post.

Is he ā€œgetting what he deservesā€?
 
What this illustrates is that we have a problem with insurance, not health care. The guy got his $200,000 surgery and is still alive because of it. What got him was that he had neither the money nor insurance to pay for it. So letā€™s admit that the health care isnā€™t the issue.

He had assets to pay for the surgery (or at least a large part of it), namely his house. He has a place to live and is apparently not looking for a full time job.

I think that the guy in the Frontline episode ought to be glad he is alive.

Peace

Tim
 
Orogeny said:
What this illustrates is that we have a problem with insurance, not health care. The guy got his $200,000 surgery and is still alive because of it. What got him was that he had neither the money nor insurance to pay for it. So letā€™s admit that the health care isnā€™t the issue.

He had assets to pay for the surgery (or at least a large part of it), namely his house. He has a place to live and is apparently not looking for a full time job.

I think that the guy in the Frontline episode ought to be glad he is alive.

Peace

Tim
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Tim, I think the guy in the Frontline episode is glad he is alive. And, provided he doesnā€™t have another heart attack before Medicare kicks in, he may very well keep the house he is in now.
The point is, that his predicament simply does not happen in countries like Germany that have government controlled health insurance. His predicament is unique to the United States among Western 1st world countries. The question is, can we in the US do better with the way health insurance is provided to our countrymen.
I agree, our health care system did an excellent job saving this manā€™s life.
 
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