Heaven is for Real

[aicirt]

I didn’t say those who had NDEs were diagnosed with mental in capacities… But if they were that close to death, they may not have had enough oxygen for the brain to function normally. Many things can be the reason there is a change in lives, even a close call. Makes us stop and think how fragile life really is. God Bless, Memaw

I referred before to THE CALL where people are actually called to the religious life. Some actually have heard a voice telling them this is what God wants of them. They are not suffering from oxygen deprivation. Something happens because they’re more than willing to give up all and serve Christ.

Ditto for my relative who announced to all that the funeral would be on Monday. She announced this on Friday having come out of a coma or a really deep sleep. She was dying from cancer. She asked those around her if the funeral was over. Regaining from the shock of that question and from unexpected consciousness, they said, “No.” She responded, “Oh, it will be on Monday.” Sure enough she died the next day and her funeral was on Monday. She had terminal cancer.

Hospice nurses experience this kind of thing regularly. They actually will instruct the family not to be surprised if the patient sees loved ones who have passed. Personally, I think it is wonderful that there is someone there on the other side ready to walk them home. I think it would help them to let go of this life. It’s a blessing.

Does this mean there isn’t a Purgatory? No.

 

[Memaw]

If that were true then these NDEs would almost always result in conversion to Catholicism. The Catholic Church is the normative means of salvation. It would seem odd that a God would show a boy heaven for the purpose of his soul and the conversion of others and then not show the Church. Think about it. A taste of heaven and then nothing. No sacrament of reconciliation to help this young boy. No Eucharist to give him sanctifying graces, no Church to lead him and direct his morality. NO vision of purgatory to help his loved ones who have gone before him. I believe they are Wesleyan Methodists. So we are talking about a complete void of a huge part of revelation of God through the Church’s Magisterium and Sacraments. So God allows this vision of heaven in all it’s complexities and majesty, yet forgets to show the vehicle to arrive at this destination? Odd.

I agree, well said!, God Bless, Memaw

 

[Techno2000]

If that were true then these NDEs would almost always result in conversion to Catholicism. The Catholic Church is the normative means of salvation. It would seem odd that a God would show a boy heaven for the purpose of his soul and the conversion of others and then not show the Church. Think about it. A taste of heaven and then nothing. No sacrament of reconciliation to help this young boy. No Eucharist to give him sanctifying graces, no Church to lead him and direct his morality. NO vision of purgatory to help his loved ones who have gone before him. I believe they are Wesleyan Methodists. So we are talking about a complete void of a huge part of revelation of God through the Church’s Magisterium and Sacraments. So God allows this vision of heaven in all it’s complexities and majesty, yet forgets to show the vehicle to arrive at this destination? Odd.

I have read thousands of NDE on the net and many of them you always hear God say… (you have something to do) I think this means they have to use there Free will in life just like everybody else and choose their own path.

 

[suko]

If that were true then these NDEs would almost always result in conversion to Catholicism. The Catholic Church is the normative means of salvation.

Yes, I agree, and that makes sense to us Catholics, and in the past, it always made me wonder if it were possible that God could be behind some of these NDE conversions even if it didn’t lead them to the Catholic Church. Back in page 2 of this thread, I mentioned an atheist’s miraculous NDE story (Ian McCormick) who received an unexplainable physical healing, and there are others like him. I guess we could easily dismiss him and all others as being fabricated stories or something, or ones of demonic origin (which I definitely do think is the case with Dr. E. Alexander’s, since he appears to have New Age ideas), but reason seems to tell me that some of them are genuinely from God, considering the total 360 degree change in their lifestyle, and their desire for God.
Thus, it leads me to believe that God works in mysterious ways, as we all know already, ways which we do understand at times. And when it comes to NDEs, these Scripture verses come to mind:

*"8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts: nor your ways my ways, saith the Lord.

9 For as the heavens are exalted above the earth, so are my ways exalted above your ways, and my thoughts above your thoughts."*

In the end, God wants to save the sinner, and I think that’s what matters the most to God, not what particular religion a person belongs to.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

I have read thousands of NDE on the net and many of them you always hear God say… (you have something to do) I think this means they have to use there Free will in life just like everybody else and choose their own path.

So your appointed time of death was a mistake? And God has given you either a command or a chance that others will not get?

I cannot reconcile that to my faith.

 

[aicirt]

I agree with both Techno2000 and Suko’s replies. Those that expereinced NDEs have not finished their journeys here on earth. Yes, and they have free will.

Although I had said Dr. Alexander’s reaction seemed a little too New Age, he’s not finished yet either. Because of the complexity of his case and the charting of his illness, his NDE certainly effected other physicians whom the doctor even said were skeptics if not out and out atheists. His NDE has given them pause also. Ripple effect.

Doesn’t it seem illogical that the evil one would bother giving an NDE to an atheist only to have him seek out God? What’s the sense in that? He would have served himself better by leaving the atheist an atheist. Showing him hell wouldn’t have done him any good either because he’s giving him a belief in something he had denied previously. And once you accept hell you have to accept heaven. If anything, Alexander, will probably read anything he can get his hands on about God and Jesus and, hopefully, he and others will cross the Tiber.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

I agree with both Techno2000 and Suko’s replies. Those that expereinced NDEs have not finished their journeys here on earth. Yes, and they have free will.

Although I had said Dr. Alexander’s reaction seemed a little too New Age, he’s not finished yet either. Because of the complexity of his case and the charting of his illness, his NDE certainly effected other physicians whom the doctor even said were skeptics if not out and out atheists. His NDE has given them pause also. Ripple effect.

Doesn’t it seem illogical that the evil one would bother giving an NDE to an atheist only to have him seek out God? What’s the sense in that? He would have served himself better by leaving the atheist an atheist. Showing him hell wouldn’t have done him any good either because he’s giving him a belief in something he had denied previously. And once you accept hell you have to accept heaven. If anything, Alexander, will probably read anything he can get his hands on about God and Jesus and, hopefully, he and others will cross the Tiber.

Those that expereinced NDEs have not finished their journeys here on earth.

I just cannot comprehend that part. Either God knows the appointed time of death for us or he does not. But this idea that he gives NDEs for someone who’s work is not finished is odd to me. Why not just give them a vision? And the whole idea that one needs to have more time to “finish” their work does not reconcile itself to those who do not indeed “finish” their work. So, either God is not omnipotent and he corrects these “mistakes” of death by sending the person back to “finish” their work. Or he does not. Why does everyone not get this gift? Why, if joe shmoe could use some more “time” to “Finish” something he just gets zapped and judged, but this situation of NDEs seems to fly in the face of a God who is in control. Not only that , but again, why is this not consistent with very important Church teachings. You “see” heaven, you hear God telling you something and then you go back? ignorant of the Church? odd. Sure all of these people have “free will” but if the young boy in this movie has mortal sin on his soul he will never see heaven again. He will die. And yet apart from ignorance of the Church and perfect contrition he does not have access to the sacrament of confession or the Eucharist. The single biggest things in God’s Church.

I wonder, what the dad’s reaction would have been if the boy had come “back” and said, Uh dad, we need to be Catholic now… My guess, they would have dismissed it as the ramblings of a young boy who was hallucinating.

I’d be much more inclined to buy this type of idea if it jived with what we already know about hell, heaven, purgatory and the saints. Since it seems to be ignorant of anything remotely Catholic, I cannot accept it as part of God’s plan.

 

[Cricket2]

I just cannot comprehend that part. Either God knows the appointed time of death for us or he does not. But this idea that he gives NDEs for someone who’s work is not finished is odd to me. Why not just give them a vision? And the whole idea that one needs to have more time to “finish” their work does not reconcile itself to those who do not indeed “finish” their work. So, either God is not omnipotent and he corrects these “mistakes” of death by sending the person back to “finish” their work. Or he does not. Why does everyone not get this gift? Why, if joe shmoe could use some more “time” to “Finish” something he just gets zapped and judged, but this situation of NDEs seems to fly in the face of a God who is in control. Not only that , but again, why is this not consistent with very important Church teachings. You “see” heaven, you hear God telling you something and then you go back? ignorant of the Church? odd. Sure all of these people have “free will” but if the young boy in this movie has mortal sin on his soul he will never see heaven again. He will die. And yet apart from ignorance of the Church and perfect contrition he does not have access to the sacrament of confession or the Eucharist. The single biggest things in God’s Church.

I wonder, what the dad’s reaction would have been if the boy had come “back” and said, Uh dad, we need to be Catholic now… My guess, they would have dismissed it as the ramblings of a young boy who was hallucinating.

I’d be much more inclined to buy this type of idea if it jived with what we already know about hell, heaven, purgatory and the saints. Since it seems to be ignorant of anything remotely Catholic, I cannot accept it as part of God’s plan.

What about this:
My NDE occurred at the age of 4. My family did not go to church of any kind, did not believe in God and did not talk about God. I had no idea God existed at all. It was during my NDE that I came to know God existed. It was through that experience that I knew I would be a Catholic one day.

Frankly, as long as a person is seeking God, He will provide for their spiritual needs, and I mean all of them. What good does it do the “practicing Catholic” to put on displays of piety, but once out of the Church go into immediate fits of road rage in the parking lot, flip people off at the store, lie constantly, cheat on their spouse repeatedly or abuse their children? Yes we can go to confession, but if we make no effort to change what good does it do?

I have known more atheists who have acted with more generosity, kindness, honesty and integrity than I have known Christians…of any denomination. If I had based my choice to be a Catholic on the behavior of the Christians living around me I would still be searching for a Church. If I based my remaining a Catholic on my fellow Catholics I would have left the Church a long time ago. Because believe me very few have ever lived up to the calling of God’s Church as far as I am concerned.

It is in the Church that I have met some of the most dishonest people I have every known, it is in the Church that I found people stealing money out of the candle money and poor box, slandering the priest and others, driving like insane idiots in the parking lot, abusing their children, harassing old people and discriminating against anyone that was not white. So maybe God lets some of us have a NDE so we can get through the lies and falsehood of those who are supposed to lead us to Him in the first place.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

What about this:
My NDE occurred at the age of 4. My family did not go to church of any kind, did not believe in God and did not talk about God. I had no idea God existed at all. It was during my NDE that I came to know God existed. It was through that experience that I knew I would be a Catholic one day.

Frankly, as long as a person is seeking God, He will provide for their spiritual needs, and I mean all of them. What good does it do the “practicing Catholic” to put on displays of piety, but once out of the Church go into immediate fits of road rage in the parking lot, flip people off at the store, lie constantly, cheat on their spouse repeatedly or abuse their children? Yes we can go to confession, but if we make no effort to change what good does it do?

I have known more atheists who have acted with more generosity, kindness, honesty and integrity than I have known Christians…of any denomination. If I had based my choice to be a Catholic on the behavior of the Christians living around me I would still be searching for a Church. If I based my remaining a Catholic on my fellow Catholics I would have left the Church a long time ago. Because believe me very few have ever lived up to the calling of God’s Church as far as I am concerned.

It is in the Church that I have met some of the most dishonest people I have every known, it is in the Church that I found people stealing money out of the candle money and poor box, slandering the priest and others, driving like insane idiots in the parking lot, abusing their children, harassing old people and discriminating against anyone that was not white. So maybe God lets some of us have a NDE so we can get through the lies and falsehood of those who are supposed to lead us to Him in the first place.

you are kinda all over the place with that post.

In short. I believe the Church is the means of salvation. This is de fide. I also believe that if God intervenes in someone life then he will lead them down the correct path. The Catholic one. I also believe that it is entirely possible that your 4 year old experience was not a “vision” from God but played a part in your faith life.

I just don’t believe in all of these “light at the end of the tunnel” art bell type stuff.

 

[aicirt]

I just cannot comprehend that part. Either God knows the appointed time of death for us or he does not. But this idea that he gives NDEs for someone who’s work is not finished is odd to me. Why not just give them a vision? And the whole idea that one needs to have more time to “finish” their work does not reconcile itself to those who do not indeed “finish” their work. So, either God is not omnipotent and he corrects these “mistakes” of death by sending the person back to “finish” their work. Or he does not. Why does everyone not get this gift? Why, if joe shmoe could use some more “time” to “Finish” something he just gets zapped and judged, but this situation of NDEs seems to fly in the face of a God who is in control. Not only that , but again, why is this not consistent with very important Church teachings. You “see” heaven, you hear God telling you something and then you go back? ignorant of the Church? odd. Sure all of these people have “free will” but if the young boy in this movie has mortal sin on his soul he will never see heaven again. He will die. And yet apart from ignorance of the Church and perfect contrition he does not have access to the sacrament of confession or the Eucharist. The single biggest things in God’s Church.

I wonder, what the dad’s reaction would have been if the boy had come “back” and said, Uh dad, we need to be Catholic now… My guess, they would have dismissed it as the ramblings of a young boy who was hallucinating.

I’d be much more inclined to buy this type of idea if it jived with what we already know about hell, heaven, purgatory and the saints. Since it seems to be ignorant of anything remotely Catholic, I cannot accept it as part of God’s plan.

People are given an NDE so they may attest to others that there is a heaven or, in some instances, that there is a hell. Most have documentation such as medical attendants and medical data that something extrodinary did happen.The science says he was dead. A private revelation, apparition, or vision would not have provided that info. Also the subject’s attitude toward religion underwent an immediate change.

Sure God knows the time of our demise. Obviously, by sending them back this was not their time. The Fatima children were given views of hell. That wasn’t a NDE nor did they die. God is in control of how and what He wants to reveal.

The little boy was four so he was not of the age of reason so no mortal sin. But even if he had sinned and died it is up to God. He makes the final judgement. We don’t know. But as Catholics we are taught that that there is a Purgatory. We may live our lives as Catholics but God is ALL MERCIFUL. Maybe we can’t comprehend that fact. Whatever. He’s in charge so He’ll determine. And if a non-Catholic falls on his knees and begs for mercy, God just might send him to Purgatory to learn and repent for being hard hearted while on earth. None of us know.

You would like the NDE to show the subject that he should be a member of the Catholic Church. I’d like that too but it doesn’t happen. Consider some of the appariations such as Our Lady of Zeitou, Egypt. From 1968 to about 1972, Our Lady was seen by millions including then President Nassar,who was one of thousands of Muslims, plus Jews and Protestants. How many converted to Catholicism?

Emmanuel Segastashya, was one who had an appariation in Kiebo, Rwanda. He was a pagan. Did he become a Catholic? No. He became a Christian evangelist. Thank God for that! Can you imagine our chagrin if he had remained a pagan? Hopefully, he’s still on his journey and might end up a Catholic.

 

[Memaw]

What about this:
My NDE occurred at the age of 4. My family did not go to church of any kind, did not believe in God and did not talk about God. I had no idea God existed at all. It was during my NDE that I came to know God existed. It was through that experience that I knew I would be a Catholic one day.

Frankly, as long as a person is seeking God, He will provide for their spiritual needs, and I mean all of them. What good does it do the “practicing Catholic” to put on displays of piety, but once out of the Church go into immediate fits of road rage in the parking lot, flip people off at the store, lie constantly, cheat on their spouse repeatedly or abuse their children? Yes we can go to confession, but if we make no effort to change what good does it do?

I have known more atheists who have acted with more generosity, kindness, honesty and integrity than I have known Christians…of any denomination. If I had based my choice to be a Catholic on the behavior of the Christians living around me I would still be searching for a Church. If I based my remaining a Catholic on my fellow Catholics I would have left the Church a long time ago. Because believe me very few have ever lived up to the calling of God’s Church as far as I am concerned.

It is in the Church that I have met some of the most dishonest people I have every known, it is in the Church that I found people stealing money out of the candle money and poor box, slandering the priest and others, driving like insane idiots in the parking lot, abusing their children, harassing old people and discriminating against anyone that was not white. So maybe God lets some of us have a NDE so we can get through the lies and falsehood of those who are supposed to lead us to Him in the first place.

The world is made up of Saints and sinners no matter where we are. To bad you have met up with so many bad examples. You must be very lonely! They are NOT the Church, no matter how loud many say, “We are the Church.” The CHURCH will continue on, long after we are gone and its time we realize we’re not the “boss”. I am very fortunate to have met many very loyal and loving Catholics, beginning with my own Mother. And I pray for all the rest of us. Maybe you should too. It takes lots of the stuffin out of our anger. God Bless, Memaw

 

[suko]

So your appointed time of death was a mistake? And God has given you either a command or a chance that others will not get?

I cannot reconcile that to my faith.

If I’m understanding your logic here, I would have to argue that there are many Saints that also have raised people from the dead. So was the “appointed time of death” of people whom the Saints raised back to life a mistake? Did God make a mistake here, or is there something else more profound and glorious at work here?

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

If I’m understanding your logic here, I would have to argue that there are many Saints that also have raised people from the dead. So was the “appointed time of death” of people whom the Saints raised back to life a mistake? Did God make a mistake here, or is there something else more profound and glorious at work here?

Of course not. They died. It was their time of death they were raised to show a miracle and how God conquers death. But with NDE’s the person need not “die” to receive a vision. Most visions that affected the most people and mass conversions had nothing to do with death. Like Guadalupe.

 

[Cricket2]

The world is made up of Saints and sinners no matter where we are. To bad you have met up with so many bad examples. You must be very lonely! They are NOT the Church, no matter how loud many say, “We are the Church.” The CHURCH will continue on, long after we are gone and its time we realize we’re not the “boss”. I am very fortunate to have met many very loyal and loving Catholics, beginning with my own Mother. And I pray for all the rest of us. Maybe you should too. It takes lots of the stuffin out of our anger. God Bless, Memaw

Some shock and disappointment yes. Anger, no. Prayer is constant and daily. What I shared was simple fact and experience, that’s all.

 

[suko]

Of course not. They died. It was their time of death they were raised to show a miracle and how God conquers death. But with NDE’s the person need not “die” to receive a vision. Most visions that affected the most people and mass conversions had nothing to do with death. Like Guadalupe.

Yes, people with NDE’s need not “die” to have a spiritual encounter resulting in a conversion, but if God chooses to use this as a method to convert the sinner, I see no problem with it, for God can use any method He wills to do this, they need not be so large-scale such as the apparitions at Fatima, Lourdes, Guadalupe, etc…

Perhaps you’d be interested in hearing the NDE testomonies of 2 Catholic priests? Fr. Rick Wendell (I’ve heard his awesome and miraculous testimony in person, since in the past, he used to go around and speak of it ~ he still might be doing this, though) and Fr. Jose Maniyangat. Fr. Jose’s is really awesome, too, it’s quite Catholic in nature so u probably wouldn’t have problems with it. He has a healing ministry now.

 

[Viki63]

What I shared was simple fact and experience, that’s all.

Thank you for sharing your experience; it’s encouraging.
I met a woman who told me about her NDE. She had nothing to gain by it, no reason to lie, and appeared completely sane and normal.
She died for several minutes in surgery, and described floating up into darkness, but it was not a frightening experience, but a darkness full of love and comfort and peace. I forget most of it, but remember how she described the darkness as so peaceful, and being met by someone.
I am fully convinced her experience was real.
I see no reason for anyone to become a Catholic immediately after an NDE. It took me 23 years to join the Catholic church after my conversion to Christ. Time means nothing to God, who lives in eternity.

 

[Memaw]

Thank you for sharing your experience; it’s encouraging.
I met a woman who told me about her NDE. She had nothing to gain by it, no reason to lie, and appeared completely sane and normal.
She died for several minutes in surgery, and described floating up into darkness, but it was not a frightening experience, but a darkness full of love and comfort and peace. I forget most of it, but remember how she described the darkness as so peaceful, and being met by someone.
I am fully convinced her experience was real.
I see no reason for anyone to become a Catholic immediately after an NDE. It took me 23 years to join the Catholic church after my conversion to Christ. Time means nothing to God, who lives in eternity.-

Time does mean something to God or he wouldn’t have given it to us. It means a lot to those who die suddenly and unprepared. I don’t doubt that some experience strange things when near death, I just wonder what causes them. Years ago when they used to give you Ether when having a baby, I experienced strange things too but I wasn’t anywhere near death. I even told the Dr. about one of them and he said “That’s from the Ether.” God Bless, Memaw

 

[GEddie]

Thank you for sharing your experience; it’s encouraging.
I met a woman who told me about her NDE. She had nothing to gain by it, no reason to lie, and appeared completely sane and normal.
She died for several minutes in surgery, and described floating up into darkness, but it was not a frightening experience, but a darkness full of love and comfort and peace. I forget most of it, but remember how she described the darkness as so peaceful, and being met by someone.
I am fully convinced her experience was real.
I see no reason for anyone to become a Catholic immediately after an NDE. It took me 23 years to join the Catholic church after my conversion to Christ. Time means nothing to God, who lives in eternity.​

I hope that is inaccurate, as the thought of going into permanent darkness is hideous to me!

As to Catholic conversion: Yes, time is important to us human psychosomas, but we should not expect someone to recover from NDE and immediately call to join RCIA. Having died, or nearly so, does not replace the process of discernment. At most, it gets it started.

ICXC NIKA.

 

[strange_guy]

It’s not the Catholic Church that saves, or the protestant church. It’s Jesus. So NDE’s don’t have to necessarily lead the person to become a catholic.

About the NDE of dr Alexander Eben I’d like to read more opinions, because he tells his story with so much passion and confidence and it seems very credible but he doesn’t talk about Jesus being the way, the truth and the life. After reading his book you end up with a notion that Jesus was a prophet and a good guy, but not the savior of mankind, so I guess there’s something missing.

 

[aicirt]

It’s not the Catholic Church that saves, or the protestant church. It’s Jesus. So NDE’s don’t have to necessarily lead the person to become a catholic.

About the NDE of dr Alexander Eben I’d like to read more opinions, because he tells his story with so much passion and confidence and it seems very credible but he doesn’t talk about Jesus being the way, the truth and the life. After reading his book you end up with a notion that Jesus was a prophet and a good guy, but not the savior of mankind, so I guess there’s something missing.

Dr. Alexander Eben was an atheist. After his NDE, he became a believer. I’m sure he has a strong desire to understand all that he denied before. Hopefully, he’ll come to the Catholic Church. Writing a book on his expereinces was a courageous step.