Heavenly Parents

[RuthAnne]

Some of my Mormon relatives like to tell me about everything Mormon. I found this interesting. In their recent world conference they said that the theme of the young women was changed from something like heavenly father to heavenly parents.

“I am a beloved daughter of heavenly parents, with a divine nature and eternal destiny. As a disciple of Jesus Christ, I strive to become like Him. I seek and act upon personal revelation and minister to others in His holy name. I will stand as a witness of God at all times and in all things and in all places.

“As I strive to qualify for exaltation, I cherish the gift of repentance and seek to improve each day. With faith, I will strengthen my home and family, make and keep sacred covenants, and receive the ordinances and blessings of the holy temple.”

I wonder when they will start praying to heavenly father and heavenly mother.

 

[gazelam]

I wonder when they will start praying to heavenly father and heavenly mother.

We’re taught in scripture to pray to the Father in the name of the Son. So, the answer is never. Only the Young Women’s theme is new, not the belief in a Heavenly Mother.

 

[Wesrock]

I wonder when they will start praying to heavenly father and heavenly mother.

I have missionaries who come to my door asking if I’ve ever heard of the Heavenly Mother and they’ve left pamphlets. I think they’re LDS spin offs not approved by the LDS.

 

[RuthAnne]

We’re taught in scripture to pray to the Father in the name of the Son. So, the answer is never.

Or until your scriptures change?

Also, I have a question. Doesn’t it say somewhere in your scriptures that God the Father is the only being who you worship? Do you worship Jesus Christ? I know you believe that they are separate beings.

 

[gazelam]

Also, I have a question. Doesn’t it say somewhere in your scriptures that God the Father is the only being who you worship? Do you worship Jesus Christ? I know you believe that they are separate beings.

Straight from The Book of Mormon…

2 Nephi 25:29 And now behold, I say unto you that the right way is to believe in Christ, and deny him not; and Christ is the Holy One of Israel; wherefore ye must bow down before him, and worship him with all your might, mind, and strength, and your whole soul; and if ye do this ye shall in nowise be cast out.

I hope this helps…

 

[RuthAnne]

I can’t say that it helps. One of your scriptures in the doctrine and covenants says:

19 And gave unto them commandments that they should love and serve him, the only living and true God, and that he should be the only being whom they should worship.

This is talking about God the Father. If you worship Jesus Christ also, then isn’t that two beings?

 

[gazelam]

I can’t say that it helps. One of your scriptures in the doctrine and covenants says:

19 And gave unto them commandments that they should love and serve him, the only living and true God, and that he should be the only being whom they should worship.

This is talking about God the Father. If you worship Jesus Christ also, then isn’t that two beings?

Which Doctrine and Covenants section is this verse from? For the record we worship God the Father also as Christ does.

 

[RuthAnne]

Which Doctrine and Covenants section is this verse from? For the record we worship God the Father also as Christ does.

Section 20. So if I understand, according to your doctrine and covenants you worship only one being but according to your book of Mormon you worship two beings? Which is correct? And if there is a heavenly mother, why would you not worship her?

 

[gazelam]

Section 20. So if I understand, according to your doctrine and covenants you worship only one being but according to your book of Mormon you worship two beings? Which is correct?

A couple of points…

1. Just a little farther in D&C 20:28 it states: Which Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are one God, infinite and eternal, without end. As with the Bible, the D&C refers to the three divine beings/persons as “one God”.
2. Worship of the Son is indistinguishable from that of the Father. The Son comes to us in the name of the Father (See John 5:43), the Son’s power comes from the Father (See Matthew 18:28), and Christ only does that which He sees the Father do (See John 5:19). While the Father is the source of all divine power, Christ has been given all of that power. There is no such act of devotion that singles out only the Father or only Christ for worship. By keeping the commandments you are worshiping Both - a package deal of sorts!

And if there is a heavenly mother, why would you not worship her?

We have received no commandment to do so. Keep those good questions coming!!

 

[Vico]

Some of my Mormon relatives like to tell me about everything Mormon. I found this interesting. In their recent world conference they said that the theme of the young women was changed from something like heavenly father to heavenly parents.

“I am a beloved daughter of heavenly parents, with a divine nature and eternal destiny. As a disciple of Jesus Christ, I strive to become like Him. I seek and act upon personal revelation and minister to others in His holy name. I will stand as a witness of God at all times and in all things and in all places.

“As I strive to qualify for exaltation, I cherish the gift of repentance and seek to improve each day. With faith, I will strengthen my home and family, make and keep sacred covenants, and receive the ordinances and blessings of the holy temple.”

I wonder when they will start praying to heavenly father and heavenly mother.

Is it different than this in the Catechism?

460 The Word became flesh to make us " partakers of the divine nature ": 78 “For this is why the Word became man, and the Son of God became the Son of man: so that man, by entering into communion with the Word and thus receiving divine sonship, might become a son of God.” 79 “For the Son of God became man so that we might become God.” 80 “The only-begotten Son of God, wanting to make us sharers in his divinity, assumed our nature, so that he, made man, might make men gods.” 81

78 2 Pt 1:4.
79 St. Irenaeus, Adv. haeres. 3, 19, 1: PG 7/1, 939.
80 St. Athanasius, De inc. 54, 3: PG 25, 192B.
81 St. Thomas Aquinas, Opusc . 57, 1-4.

 

[RuthAnne]

Okay, thank you. This makes more sense now. I have three takeaways from this discussion.

1. Mormons believe in worshipping one being (per d & c)
2. Mormons believe that The Father, The Son and The Holy Ghost are one being. (I had mistakenly thought you believed they were separate beings but I stand corrected)
3. Since Mormons believe that The Father, The Son and The Holy Ghost are one, and you only worship one being, then you also worship The Holy Ghost.

This makes sense. I can’t wait for the next dinner discussion with my Mormon relatives!

 

[RebeccaJ]

Individual Mormons believe a very wide range and contradict each other. You can’t generalize what a single Mormon believes about a subject as a doctrinal Mormon teaching.

Mormon teaching is that their gods called Father and Jesus Christ are glorified, physical beings and that each is a separate being. Their God, called Father, is who they are worshipping and they never worship any of their other gods, including the ones they have named Jesus, Holy Ghost or Heavenly Mother. They teach that the commandment to worship no other gods, means there are other gods, just the commandment is to not worship them.

You can think of “God” as a Mormon office and title that Mormon men can aspire to and could possibly achieve. (Mormon Women aspire to the office and title of Mother, in a 19th century American ideal of what Mother, is.)

 

[RuthAnne]

Individual Mormons believe a very wide range and contradict each other. You can’t generalize what a single Mormon believes about a subject as a doctrinal Mormon teaching.

I would think that to be the case with many religions.

Mormon teaching is that their gods called Father and Jesus Christ are glorified, physical beings and that each is a separate being.

If that’s the case, then how do they reconcile their worship of Jesus Christ with this?

19 And gave unto them commandments that they should love and serve him, the only living and true God, and that he should be the only being whom they should worship.

“Only being” means what, exactly? If the Father and Son are both individual beings, then they can’t worship them both.

Their God, called Father, is who they are worshipping and they never worship any of their other gods, including the ones they have named Jesus, Holy Ghost or Heavenly Mother.

So Heavenly Mother is a god?

They teach that the commandment to worship no other gods, means there are other gods, just the commandment is to not worship them.

So how do they reconcile that with this?

2 Nephi 25:29 And now behold, I say unto you that the right way is to believe in Christ , and deny him not; and Christ is the Holy One of Israel; wherefore ye must bow down before him, and worship him with all your might, mind, and strength, and your whole soul ; and if ye do this ye shall in nowise be cast out.

You can think of “God” as a Mormon office and title that Mormon men can aspire to and could possibly achieve.

Okay, I thought it was starting to make sense. Now I’m more confused than ever.

 

[RuthAnne]

I’m still trying to sort this out.

If they can only worship the “only being” as it says in their scripture, which being is that?

If The Father, The Son and The Holy Ghost are one being, then it would make sense. But that means they worship three Gods. If they are not one being, then they can only worship one of them.

And then there’s the whole Heavenly Mother thing. Is she a second class God because she’s a woman, not worthy of worship, or is she only married to a God along with a lot of other Mothers in Heaven? I’m still more confused than ever.

 

[mtolympus]

I’m still trying to sort this out.

If they can only worship the “only being” as it says in their scripture, which being is that?

If The Father, The Son and The Holy Ghost are one being, then it would make sense. But that means they worship three Gods. If they are not one being, then they can only worship one of them.

This question is answered in verses D&C 20:
28 Which Father, Son and Holy Ghost are one God, infinite and eternal, without end. Amen. 29 And we know that all men must repent and believe on the name of Jesus Christ, and worship the Father in his name, and endure in faith on his name to the end.

I am trying to sort this out. We both believe that the Father, Son and Holy Ghost are one God, though they are three separate persons. I can see how this dichotomy may be confusing to non-believers.

However, can you help me understand how saying that these three separate persons are the same being makes this no longer confusing.

 

[Vico]

I’m still trying to sort this out.

If they can only worship the “only being” as it says in their scripture, which being is that?

If The Father, The Son and The Holy Ghost are one being, then it would make sense. But that means they worship three Gods. If they are not one being, then they can only worship one of them.

And then there’s the whole Heavenly Mother thing. Is she a second class God because she’s a woman, not worthy of worship, or is she only married to a God along with a lot of other Mothers in Heaven? I’m still more confused than ever.

For comparison, the Catholic Church did study the theology. See this:

The words Father, Son and Holy Spirit, have for the Mormons a meaning totally different from the Christian meaning. The differences are so great that one cannot even consider that this doctrine is a heresy which emerged out of a false understanding of the Christian doctrine. The teaching of the Mormons has a completely different matrix.
http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/c...oc_20010605_battesimo_mormoni-ladaria_en.html

 

[RuthAnne]

However, can you help me understand how saying that these three separate persons are the same being makes this no longer confusing.

I think I already explained that.

 

[po18guy]

Well, God the Father is Father of all. Jesus is our Brother. Mary - well she is the mother of all who ive in Christ (Rev. 12). So, in that regard, we do have heavenly parents - but as usual the LDS version is radically different.

 

[mtolympus]

I am trying to sort this out. We both believe that the Father, Son and Holy Ghost are one God, though they are three separate persons. I can see how this dichotomy may be confusing to non-believers.

However, can you help me understand how saying that these three separate persons are the same being makes this no longer confusing.

I think I already explained that.

Would you mind reposting this? Sorry, I missed it.

 

[RebeccaJ]

Joseph Smith’s doctrine of deity changed over time. The BoM contains Trinitarian ideas. As his ideas moved further away from Christianity, his doctrines about deity changed. The later-produced Book of Abraham contains blatant polytheism. The King Follet discourse was given nearer to the time of his murder, and contains the best primer for Mormon thought. Though Mormons don’t consider it scripture, it is cited throughout their teaching manuals and used as a reference.

Yes, Mormonism is henotheistic, which is a form of polytheism.

I would think that to be the case with many religions.

True, with Mormonism though, each person has their own “personal revelations” going, so talking to one Mormon and then to another, can go anywhere from 100% agreement to extremely confusing.

I’m still trying to sort this out.

If they can only worship the “only being” as it says in their scripture, which being is that?

If The Father, The Son and The Holy Ghost are one being, then it would make sense. But that means they worship three Gods. If they are not one being, then they can only worship one of them.

And then there’s the whole Heavenly Mother thing. Is she a second class God because she’s a woman, not worthy of worship, or is she only married to a God along with a lot of other Mothers in Heaven? I’m still more confused than ever.

Mormonism can’t be approached via Christian theology or any other method of rational thinking. To be a Mormon you just have to accept the ideas of Joseph Smith, because Joseph Smith said so.