Hebrews 6:4-6 exposed

[Daniel_Marsh]

How can you continue Hebrews 6 when you ignored the End of Hebrews 5 which plainly tells you who Hebrews 6 is addressed to? If you did not figure it out, Hebrews 5 & 6 are addressed to immature hebrew christians, thus they did partake of the Holy Spirit.

Your whole expostion is lost and in vain because you ignore the context from Hebrews 5!!!

 

[Contarini]

allischalmers:

So we shall continue! Heb.6

These people never actually and experimentally put their faithin the finished work of the Lord Jesus Christ as the Son Of God and Saviour of sinners.

Appearances are against this interpretation. You need to give us some convincing reason for believing this. If you just assert it, you will not get anywhere.

they never fully realized and accepted the truth of Colossians 2:10-- “ye are Complete in HIM.”

And where do you see evidence for this assertion?

“…those who were once enlightened…"
this describes the general effect of the Gospel upon the mind of the hearer; " But call to remembrance the former day, in which after ye were illuminated, ye endured a great fight of affictions” (Heb 10;32).

I see no reason to believe that the term “enlightened” either here or in chap. 10 has the limited meaning you claim. You have yet to advance an argument supporting your interpretation. And you haven’t even got to the really difficult stuff, namely the reference to the Holy Spirit.

P S. Who is Arthur Pink ???

A conservative Calvinist writer of the mid-20th century.

Edwin

 

[allischalmers]

You are right ,the writer of Hebrew was talking TO immature or baby Christians. What you do not understand is that the writer was not talking about them but the Judiazers. Those Christian that said that even though you were a Jewish Christian who still had to keep the Mosaic Law. The writer was warning them of the pitfalls of paying any attention to the judiazers.
If you had read my post more carefully instead of just jumping on it because I am a Baptist you would have figured that out for youself.

forever Baptist
allischalmers.

 

[Contarini]

allischalmers:

You are right ,the writer of Hebrew was talking TO immature or baby Christians. What you do not understand is that the writer was not talking about them but the Judiazers. .

But you have yet to provide any reason why we should agree with you.

On the face of it, the text appears to be a warning to the addressees, not a warning about a danger faced by some group other than the group the letter is written to. That seems really strange.

Edwin

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

There is nothing in Hebrews 5 or 6 that indicates that Judiazers are being addressed. That is a poor dodge.

 

[allischalmers]

Go back to post 36 of this thread and read the last two line.
I did not say that the Judiazers were being addressed .they are the subject of the writer

forever Baptist
allischalmers

 

[Contarini]

And I repeat–there is no indication that the people referred to and the people being warned are different groups. The author moves directly from a warning to the addressees (go on to perfection) to a statement of what happens to those who fall away. This implies that if the addressees fail to go on, but instead fall away, they will be lost permanently. There is not a shadow of a hint that two different groups are in mind.

Edwin

 

[allischalmers]

Contarini:

And I repeat–there is no indication that the people referred to and the people being warned are different groups. The author moves directly from a warning to the addressees (go on to perfection) to a statement of what happens to those who fall away. This implies that if the addressees fail to go on, but instead fall away, they will be lost permanently. There is not a shadow of a hint that two different groups are in mind.

Edwin

In support of my position I offer the following: it is an excerpt from the introduction to the book of Hebrews by the Rev. Dr. C. I. Scofeild, D.D. In the Scofeild Study Bible.
“The doctrrinal passages reveal the propose of the book. It was written with a twofold intent; 1) to confirm Jewish Christian by showing that Judaism had come to an end through the fulfilment by Christ of the whole purpose of the law: and (2) the hortatory passages show that the writer had in view the danger ever present to the Jewish professed believers in Christ of either lapaing back to Judaism, or pausing short of true faith in Jesus Christ. It is clear from the Acts that even the strongest of the beleivers in Palestine were held to a strange mingling of Judaism and Christianity (e.g.acts 21:18-24) and what snare would be especially apt to entangle professed Christians amongst the Jews of the dispersion.”
Dr. Scofeild’s veiws are supported by the following Bible scholars
Rev. Dr. Henry G. Weston, D.D.,LL.D.
Pres. Crozer Theological Seminary

Rev. James Gray D.D.
Pres. Moody Bible Institute

Rev. Dr. William J. Erdman D.D.
Author “the Gospel of John” etc,etc

Rev. Dr. W. G. Moorehead D.D.
Pres. Xenia (U.P.) Theological Seminary

Rev. Elmore Harris D.D.
Pres. Toronoto Bioble Institute
and others too numerous to mention.

forever Baptist
allischalmers

 

[Eden]

allischalmers:

Rev. Dr. C. I. Scofeild, D.D.

“Bible Scholars?” I thought you needed Bible Only. Why does a Baptist need Dr. Scofield D.D. to interpret the Bible? Isn’t that the word of MAN, not God?

 

[Eden]

Here are some Christian scholars who do not teach “Once Saved Always Saved”. I’ll preface their quotes by warning you that they are not modern thinkers like Dr. Scofield D.D. Perhaps these men were just “old-fashioned” .

“And pray ye without ceasing in behalf of other men; for there is hope of the repentance, that they may attain to God. For 'cannot he that falls arise again, and he may attain to God.’” *Ignatius of Antioch, To the Ephesians, 10 ( A.D. 110). *

“Watch for your life’s sake. Let not your lamps be quenched, nor your loins unloosed; but be ye ready, for ye know not the hour in which our Lord cometh. But often shall ye come together, seeking the things which are befitting to your souls: for the whole time of your faith will not profit you, if ye be not made perfect in the last time.” *Didache, 16 (A.D. 90). *

“And as many of them, he added, as have repented, shall have their dwelling in the tower. And those of them who have been slower in repenting shall dwell within the walls. And as many as do not repent at all, but abide in their deeds, shall utterly perish…Yet they also, being naturally good, on hearing my commandments, purified themselves, and soon repented. Their dwelling, accordingly, was in the tower. But if any one relapse into strife, he will be east out of the tower, and will lose his life.” *Hermas, The Shephard, 3:8:7 (A.D. 155). *

"[T]hat eternal fire has been prepared for him as he apostatized from God of his own free-will, and likewise for all who unrepentant continue in the apostasy, he now blasphemes, by means of such men, the Lord who brings judgment [upon him] as being already condemned, and imputes the guilt of his apostasy to his Maker, not to his own voluntary disposition." *Justin Martyr, fragment in Irenaeus’ Against Heresies, 5:26:1 (A.D. 156). *

“Now,** in the beginning the spirit was a constant companion of the soul, but the spirit forsook it because it was not willing to follow**. Yet, retaining as it were a spark of its power, though unable by reason of the separation to discern the perfect, while seeking for God it fashioned to itself in its wandering many gods, following the sophistries of the demons. But the Spirit of God is not with all, but, taking up its abode with those who live justly, and intimately combining with the soul, by prophecies it announced hidden things to other souls.” Tatian the Syrian, To the Greeks, 13 (A.D. 175).

That’s just a sample. I can’t even begin to fit all of the quotes here.

scripturecatholic.com

 

[allischalmers]

Are not all those priest and all those apologist that you Catholics rely on trying to be Bible scholars. I just used that examble to prove that I was right.

forever Baptist
allischalmers

 

[Eden]

allischalmers:

Are not all those priest and all those apologist that you Catholics rely on trying to be Bible scholars. I just used that examble to prove that I was right.

Catholics are not Bible Only so we do not hold ourselves to your formula. If you want to present your case, you must use your own criteria which means you can only use the Bible to argue your position. Catholics have always had teachers to enhance our understanding of the Bible. But according to you, that is the tradition of man. So, while I can refer to a wide host of early Christian Fathers, clergy or apologists who do not contradict Church teaching to support me’; you as a Baptist must use only your Bible (to remain true to your teachings). Certainly you don’t think of Rev. Dr. Scofield D.D. as your dispensationalist pope, do you?

 

[montanaman]

allischalmers:

Are not all those priest and all those apologist that you Catholics rely on trying to be Bible scholars. I just used that examble to prove that I was right.

forever Baptist
allischalmers

You failed.

Generally speaking, using logical fallacies isn’t persuasive:

Fallacy: Ad Populum

Description of Appeal to Popularity
The Appeal to Popularity has the following form:

Most people approve of X (have favorable emotions towards X).
Therefore X is true.

 

[allischalmers]

Oh Yes
Quotes from men just like Dr. Scofield. Not Inspired Scriptures and not even backed up by Scriptures. At least Dr Scofield and the others backed up what they wrote with scriptures. Why to you think that they cannot be wrong. It seem to me that Catholic apologist rely more on those early uninspired writers than they do the inspired Word of God.

forever Baptist
allischalmers

 

[montanaman]

allischalmers:

Oh Yes
Quotes from men just like Dr. Scofield. Not Inspired Scriptures and not even backed up by Scriptures. Why to you think that they cannot be wrong.

forever Baptist
allischalmers

They may be right, they may be wrong. That’s not the point. The point is that you’re inconsistent. You want to prove sola scriptura, or hold us to your man-made traditions, but you flagrantly violate them yourself.

What is it, Allis? Bible alone, or Bible+Bible commentary???

 

[allischalmers]

It is Bible along with the Holy Spirit as a guide.

forever Baptist
allischalmers

 

[montanaman]

allischalmers:

It is Bible along with the Holy Spirit as a guide.

forever Baptist
allischalmers

Well, according to YOU and your spiritual predecessors, the Protestants, yes. (Of course, Paul calls the pillar and foundation of the truth the “Church,” not the Bible, inspired as it is. And as others have pointed out, if people don’t listen to the CHURCH, they are to be treated as a heathen, etc. But I’m sure eventually you’ll actually read those parts someday…)

Now that that’s settled, I don’t expect to see any more of these late-millenial Bible scholars. Otherwise you’d be contradicting your own principles.

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

THE INCREDIBLE SCOFIELD AND HIS BOOK
by Joseph M. Canfield, 1988, 2004

Most Bible students have heard of the Scofield Reference Bible, and may even own one. But no one before this has worked out a detailed account of the life of Cyrus I. Scofield. And yet there is such an amazing amount of material that should be known about this man that everyone who is at all interested in the dispensational system should read this book. This well-researched and documented book reveals his questionable character, and is one of the most powerful books that has ever been written against the dispensational system. Loraine Boettner says this expose’ is so powerful that “if dispensationalists would read it carefully, perhaps half of them would turn from that system.” 394 pages, paper.

armageddonbooks.com/100scofield.html

 

[Eden]

allischalmers:

Oh Yes
Quotes from men just like Dr. Scofield. Not Inspired Scriptures and not even backed up by Scriptures. At least Dr Scofield and the others backed up what they wrote with scriptures. Why to you think that they cannot be wrong. It seem to me that Catholic apologist rely more on those early uninspired writers than they do the inspired Word of God.

forever Baptist
allischalmers

Please show me one article from Catholic Answers (not including the “This Rock” letters, those aren’t articles) where Biblical passages are not used to back up the teachings. In fact, show me one apologetic article from any Catholic apologist which does not use the Word of God.

 

[Eden]

allischalmers:

It is Bible along with the Holy Spirit as a guide.

Beware of false teachers who do not have authority.

So, Rev. Dr. S D.D.is the Holy Spirit?