Hell and everlasting punishment

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itsjustdave1988:
Errrrrr… no.

The Greek word* “ateleutetos”* means “never-ending.” According to St. Irenaeus, as a pupil of St. Polycarp who was a pupil of St. John the Apostle, St. Irenaeus wrote/spoke/read in koine Greek. He writes (ca. AD 189):
And as has already been pointed out - aionios comes from aion. aion means age - indefinite period of time. Aionios is the adjective. An adjective cannot take on more significance than the noun. Example: hour, hourly; week, weekly ; aion, aionios

Just had to point this out.

You wish to deal only with certain aspects of this thread - that of the terms “eternal” and “everlasting” but do not wish to address the myriad of other items discussed. You won’t comment on hell and the volumes of evidence that support the fact that hell is temporal and has been mistranslated into our English Bibles.

I would love to see comments on the “hell” side of this issue. Care to try?
 
Aionios

THE ADJECTIVE

is applied to God, Zion, and things intrinsically endless, and thus acquires from the connected subjects a meaning not inherent in the word, as in the following passages: Gen. xxi:33; Ex. iii:15; Job xxxiii:12; Isa. xl:28, li:11, liv:8, lv:3,13, lvi:5; lx:15,19, lxi:7,8; lxiii:12; Ezek. xxxvii:26; Dan. vii:27, ix:24, xii:2; Hab. iii:6; Ps. cxii:6, cxxx:8.

THE ADJECTIVE LIMITED. But it is found with limited meaning in these and other passages: Gen. ix:12-16; Gen. xvii:8,13,19; and Num. xxv:13; Ex. xii:14,17; xxvii:21; xxviii:43; xxix:28; xxx:21; xxxi:16,17; Lev. vi:18,22; vii:34,36; x:15; xvi:29,31,34; xvii:7; xxiii:14,31,41; xxiv:3,8,9. Num. x:8; xv:15; xviii:8,11,19,23; xix:10,21; II Sam. xxiii:5; I Chron. xvi:17; Isa. xxiv:5; Ezek. xvi:60; Psa. lxxvii:5; Isa lxiii:11; Jer. vi:16; xviii:15; Job xxi:11; xxii:15; Isa. lviii:12; lxi:4; Ezek. xxvi:20; Prov. xxii:28; xxiii:10; Ezek. xxxvi:2; xxxv:5; Isa. liv:4; Jer. v:22; xviii:16; xxv:9,12; Ezek. xxxv:9; Jer. xx:17; xxiii:40; li:39; Micah ii:9.

by J.W. Hanson

tentmaker.org/books/Aion_lim.html
 
Dr. Mangey, a translator of the writings of Philo, says Philo did not use aionios to express endless duration.

Josephus shows that aionios did not mean endlessness, for he uses it of the period between the giving of the law to Moses and that of his own writing; to the period of the imprisonment of the tyrant John by the Romans; and to the period during which Herod’s temple stood. The temple had already been destroyed by the time Josephus was writing.

St. Gregory of Nyssa speaks of aionios diastêma, “an eonian interval.” It would be absurd to call an interval “endless.”

St. Chrysostum, in his homily on Eph. 2:1-3, says that “Satan’s kingdom is æonian; that is, it will cease with the present world.”

St. Justin Martyr repeatedly used the word aionios as in the Apol. (p. 57), aionion kolasin …all ouchi chiliontaetê periodon, “eonian chastening …but a period, not a thousand years.” Or, as some translate the last clause: “but a period of a thousand years only.” He limits the eonian chastening to a period of a thousand years, rather than to endlessness.

Early fathers quotes:

tentmaker.org/books/asw/Chapter9.html
 
Again - thoughts on aionios:

Some insist that while the noun in the singular does mean “age,” in the plural it means “forever,” or “eternal.” But notice how both the singular and the plural are used in the Septuagint. At Micah 4:5 (singular), eis ton aiona kai epekeina, “for the eon and beyond,” and at Dan. 12:3 (plural), eis tous aionas kai eti, “for the eons and longer.” If the plural means forever, eternity, endless time etc., there can be no time longer than that. In the Book of Enoch there is, heos suntelesthê krima tou aionos ton aionon, “until the judgment of the eon of the eons may be accomplished.” The Greek word suntelesthê is a compound word (sun + telesthê). Without the sun, telestha appears at Luke 12:50; Rev. 10:7; 17:17; 20:3,5, and 7 where it should be translated: “should be accomplished” (or “finished” or “consummated”). The heos of the above is a conjunction of time, which limits the judgment to a period called “the eon of the eons.” Paul uses both the singular and the plural form in one sentence (Eph. 3:21), “to Him be glory in the ecclesia and in Christ Jesus for all the generations of the eon of the eons” (CV). Understand that as long as there are “generations,” we are not at the end of all things and therefore “eon of the eons” cannot refer to eternity, everlasting, forever and ever, etc.
tentmaker.org/books/asw/Chapter9.html
 
Jude 1:7. Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. Also read Genesis 19:24-29.

After studying this scripture, we note that something is not valid. There are no ruins that remain on fire today as an example of the wickedness of these cities as this scripture proclaims. Archaeologists have noted the most possible sites of these cities as being at the southern end of the Dead Sea because of the great quantities of artifacts found there and because the region of the Old Testament’s description matches that of this location. What then is amiss? By examining the text of the Greek manuscripts we find the word AIONIOS or AGE-LASTING in place of the word eternal of the King James Version. Now we have harmony of events. The cities were on fire and smoldered only during that Age or length of time that combustible materials remained to burn.

© 1977 by JOHN DOKAS tentmaker.org/books/Aion.html
 
A.D. 160-190. During this period we have several productions which employ the usual phrases in regard to the subject, such as “everlasting fire,” “eternal punishment,” and their equivalents. The last date brings us to the distinguished IRENAEUS, bishop of Lyons, in France. He taught that the wicked would be cast into inextinguishable and eternal fire. And yet he did not believe that they would be punished endlessly, for he undoubtedly adopted the doctrine of the final annihilation of the disobedient and unrighteous. He says: “The principle of existence is not inherent in our own constitutions, but is given us of God; and the soul can exist only so long as God wills. He who cherishes the gift of existence, and is thankful to the Giver, shall exist forever; but he who despises it, and is ungrateful, deprives himself of the privilege of existing forever.”…“He who is unthankful to God for this temporal life, which is little, cannot justly expect from him an existence which is endless.” 17

Thomas B. Thayer
 
The ground taken up to this time, that the Hebrew olam and the Greek aionios represent a strict eternity, that this is the radical and inherent force of the terms, has been abandoned by Dr. Tayler Lewis, one of the most learned and exact critics of the orthodox school, in a recent dissertation of his in Lange’s Commentary. His testimony is as follows: "The preacher, in contending with the Universalist or Restorationist, would commit an error, and, it may be, suffer a failure in his argument, should he lay the whole stress of it on the etymological or historical significance of the words aion, aionios, and attempt to prove, that, of themselves, they necessarily carry the meaning of endless duration."

Thomas B. Thayer
 
On Irenaeus:

On this point we will give an exact translation of his words. Referring to Psalm xxi. 4, he says: “Thus it is said concerning the salvation of man, ‘He asked life of thee, and thou gavest it him, even length of days forever and ever,’ indicating that the Father of all gives to those who are saved length of days forever and ever. For our life comes not from ourselves nor from our nature. We have life, but it is given to us by the grace of God. And therefore he who cherishes the gift of life, and is thankful to him who bestowed it, shall also receive length of days forever and ever. But he who casts it away, and is ungrateful to his Creator for his creation, and does not acknowledge him who conferred the gift, deprives himself of eternal existence.” In this passage Irenaeus is plainly speaking of the continuance of natural life forever, as denoted by eternal existence, and not of spiritual life in holiness.

tentmaker.org/books/DoctrineOfRetribution.html#AW
 
Revelation 20:10 is one of several places where we find the English phrase “forever AND ever.”

In the original it is written:

kai okarnos tou basanismou auton eis aionas ton aionon anabainei
and smoke the torment of them into eons of the eons is ascending.

Please note:
  • Our English word “ever” appears in the singular form. We have no plural form for “ever.” Putting another “ever” next to an “ever” does NOT add anything to the meaning. It’s a nonsensical thing to do. We merely do it because of the tradition of the elders we have swallowed without thinking it through.
  • We get our English word “eon” and its plural “eons” from the Greek word “aion” and its inflections. Note that our English “eon” DOES have a plural form “eons” unlike our English word “ever.”
  • In the Greek, both words which were translated “ever” are in their PLURAL form. (aionas, aionon) “Ton aionon” is in the genitive form meaning “of” or “belonging to” or “what comes out of” the aionon.
  • The Greek word for “and” is “kai,” NOT “ton.” Why did some of the leading translations replace the Greek “of the” with “and?” There is no linguistical reason for them to do so. “Of the” works perfectly fine and MANY English translations contain such rendering in the very text itself and many others show it in the margins, footnotes or appendixes.
Given this information, we see that if the King James Bible and its cousins wanted to translate the Greek word “aion” as “ever,” AND stay true to the Greek forms of speech, they should have come up with the following rendering:

“And the smoke of their torment is ascending for the evers and evers.”

As we can plainly see, this is getting pretty messy. But it gets much more messy than that. Any beginning Greek student knows that the Greek word for “and” is “kai,” NOT “ton.” So why do many modern English Bibles use the expression “forever AND ever?” There is only one answer–TRADITION!!

tentmaker.org/tracts/DoesForeverS.html
 
AUTHORITIES.

The oldest lexicographer, Hesychius, (A. D. 400-600,) definesaión thus:* “The life of man, the time of life.*” At this early date no theologian had yet imported into the word the meaning of endless duration. It retained only the sense it had in the classics, and in the Bible.

Theodoret(9) (A. D. 300-400) “Aión is not any existing thing, but an interval denoting time, sometimes infinite when spoken of God, sometimes proportioned to the duration of the creation, and sometimes to the life of man.”

John of Damascus (A. D. 750,) says, "1, The life of every man is called aión. . . . 3, The whole duration or life of this world is called aión. 4, The life after the resurrection is called ‘the aión to come.’ "

But in the sixteenth century Phavorinus was compelled to notice an addition, which subsequently to the time of the famous Council of 544 had been grafted on the word. He says: “Aión, time, also life, also habit, or way of life. Aión is also the eternal and endlessAS IT SEEMS TO THE THEOLOGIAN.” Theologians had succeeded in using the word in the sense of endless, and Phavorinus was forced to recognize their usage of it and his phraseology shows conclusively enough that he attributed to theologians the authorship of that use of the word. Alluding to this definition, Rev. Ezra S. Goodwin, one of the ripest scholars and profoundest critics, says,(10) “Here I strongly suspect is the true secret brought to light of the origin of the sense of eternity in aión. The theologian first thought he perceived it, or else he placed it there. The theologian keeps it there, now. And the theologian will probably retain it there longer than any one else. Hence it is that those lexicographers who assign eternity as one of the meanings of aión uniformly appeal for proofs to either theological, Hebrew, or Rabbinical Greek, or some species of Greek subsequent to the age of the Seventy, if not subsequent to the age of the Apostles, so far a I can ascertain.”

The second definition by Phavorinus is extracted literally from the “Etymologicon Magnum” of the ninth or tenth century. This gives us the usage from the fourth to the sixteenth century, and shows us that, if the word meant endless at the time of Christ, it must have changed from limited duration in the classics, to unlimited duration, and then back again, at the dates above specified!

From the sixteenth century onward, the word has been defined as used to denote all lengths of duration from brief to endless. We record here such definitions as we have found.

Rost: (German definitions) " Aión, duration, epoch, long time, eternity, memory of man, life-time, life, age of man. Aiónios, continual, always enduring, long continued, eternal."

Hedericus: “An age, eternity, an age a if always being; time of man’s life in the memory of men, (wicked men, New Testament,) the spinal marrow. Aiónios, eternal, everlasting, continual.”

Schleusner: “Any space of time whether longer or shorter, past, present or future, to be determined by the persons or things spoken of, and the scope of the subjects; the life or age of man. Aiónios, a definite and long period of time, that is, a long enduring, but still definite period of time.”

Passow: " Aiónios, long continued, eternal, everlasting, in the classics.

Grove: “Eternity; and age, life, duration, continuance of time; a revolution of ages, a dispensation of Providence, this world or life; the world or life to come. Aiónios, eternal, immortal, perpetual, former, past, ancient.”

cont…
 
cont…

Ewing:
“Duration, finite or infinite; a period of duration, past or future; an age; duration of the world; ages of the world; human life in this world, or the next; our manner of life in the world; and age of divine dispensation, the ages, generally reckoned three, that before law, that under the law, and that under the Messiah. Aiónios, (from preceding,) ages of the world, periods of the dispensatins since the world began.”

Schrevelius: “An age, a long period of time; indefinite duration, time, whether longer or shorter, past, prensent or future; also, in the New Testament, the wicked men of the age, life, the life of man. Aiónios, of long duration, lasting, sometimes everlasting, sometimes lasting through life as æturnus in Latin.”

Dr. Taylor, who wrote the Hebrew Bible three times with his own hand, says of *Olam, (*Greek Aión) it signifies a duration which is concealed, as being of an unknown or great length. “It signifies eternity, not from the proper force of the word, but when the sense of the place or the nature of the subject require it, as God and his attributes.”

Pickering: Almost identical with Schrevelius in his definitions.

Hinks: “A period of time; and age, an after time, eternity.Aiónios, lasting, eternal, of old, since the beginning.”

Lutz: “An age, time, eternity. Aiónios, durable, eternal.”

Macknight: (Scotch Presbyterian.) “These words being ambiguous, are always to be understood according to the nature and circumstances to which they are applied.” He thinks the words sustain endless punishment, but adds: "At the same time I must be so candid as to acknowledge that the use of these terms, forever, eternal and everlasting, in other passages of Scripture, shows that they who understand these words in a limited sense, when applied to punishment, put no forced interpretation upon them.

Wright: “Time, age, life-time, period, revolution of ages, dispensation of Providence, present world, or life, world to come, eternity.Aiónios, eternal, ancient.” Robinson: "Life, also an age, that is an indefinite long period of time, perpetuity, ever, forever, eternity, forever, without end, to the remotest time, forever and ever, of old, from everlasting, the world, present or future, this world and the next, present world, men of this world, world itself, advent of Messiah. Aiónios, perpetual, everlasting, eternal, chiefly spoken of future time, ancient

cont…
 
cont…

Jones:
“An everlasting age, eternal, forever, a period of time, age, life, the present world, or life; the Jewish dispensation; a good demon, angel as supposed to exist forever . . . Aiónios, everlasting, ancient.”

Schweighauser and Valpyv substantially agree.

Maclaine, in his Mosheim: Aión or æon among the ancients, was used to signify the age of man, or the duration of human life."

Cruden: “The words eternal, everlasting, forever, are sometimes taken for a long time, and are not always to be understood strictly, for example, ‘Thou shalt be our guide form this time forth, even forever,’ that is, during our whole life.”

Alex. Campbell: “ITS RADICAL IDEA IS INDEFINITE DURATION.”

Whitby: "Nothing is more common and familiar in Scripture than to render a thorough and irreparable vastation, whose effects and signs should be still remaining, by the word aiónios, which we render eternal."Hammond, Benson, and Gilpin, in notes on Jude 7, say the same. Liddell and Scott also give to aión, in the poets the sense of life and lifetime, as also an age or generation.

Pearce (in Matt. vii:33) says: “The Greek word aión, seems to signify age here, as it often does in the New Testament, and according to its most proper signification.” Clarke, Wakefield, Boothroyd, Simpson, Lindsey, Mardon, Acton, agree. So do Locke, Hammond, Le Clerc, Beausobre, Lenfant, Dodridge, Paulus, Kenrick and Olshausen.

T. Southwood Smith: “Sometimes it signifies the term of human life; at other times an age, or dispensation of Providence. Its most common signification is that of age or dispensation.”

Scarlett: “That aiónion, does not mean endless or eternal, may appear from considering that no adjective can have a greater force than the noun from which it is derived. If aión means age (which none either will or can deny) then aiónion**must mean age-lasting, or duration through the age or ages to which the thing spoken or relates.”

Even Professor Stuart is obliged to say: “The most common and appropriate meaning of aión in the New Testament, and the one which corresponds with the Hebrew word olam, and which therefore deserves the first rank in regard to order, I put down first: an indefinite period of time; time without limitation; ever, forever, time without end, eternity, all in relation to future time. The different shades by which the word is rendered, depend on the object with which**aiónios is associated, or to which it has relation, rather than to any difference in the real meaning of the word.”

J. W. Haley *says: “The Hebrew word ‘olam’ rendered ‘forever,’ does not imply the metaphysical idea of absolute endlessness, but a period of indefinite length, as Rambach says, a very long time, the end of which is hidden from us.” Olam or olim is the Hebrew equivalent of aión.
 
cont…

Dr. Edward Beecher(11) remarks, “It commonly means merely continuity of action . . . all attempts to set forth eternity as the original and primary sense of aión are at war with the facts of the Greek language for five centuries, in which it denoted life and its derivative senses, and the sense eternity was unknown.” And he also says what is the undoubted fact, "that the original sense ofaión is not eternity. . . . It is conceded on all hands that this (life) was originally the general use of the word. In the Paris edition of Henry Stephens’ Lexicon it is affirmed emphatically “that life, or the space of life, is the primitive sense of the word, and that it is always so used by Homer, Hesiod, and the old poets; also by Pindar and the tragic writers, as well as by Herodotus and Xenophon.” “Pertaining to the world to come,” is the sense given to “These shall go away into everlasting punishment,” by Prof. Tayler Lewis, who adds(12) "The preacher in contending with the Universalist and the Restorationist, would commit an error, and it may be suffer a failure in his argument, should he lay the whole stress of it on the etymological of historical significance of the words aión, aiónios, and attempt to prove that of themselves they necessarily carry the meaning of endless duration. ‘These shall go away into the restraint, imprisonment of the world to come,’ is all we can etymologically or exegetically make of the word in this passage."Thought these might be useful for inquiring minds.
 
St. Justin Martyr repeatedly used the word aionios … He limits the eonian chastening to a period of a thousand years, rather than to endlessness.
Balderdash! Their patristics polemics lack such credibility they are laughable.

Here’s what Justin Matryr states from the Calvinist source, CCEL, citing the work from Protestant historian Philip Schaff:
And reckon ye that it is for your sakes we have been saying these things; for it is in our power, when we are examined, to deny that we are Christians; but we would not live by telling a lie. For, impelled by the desire of the eternal and pure life, we seek the abode that is with God, the Father and Creator of all, and hasten to confess our faith, persuaded and convinced as we are that they who have proved to God1 by their works that they followed Him, and loved to abide with Him where there is no sin to cause disturbance, can obtain these things. This, then, to speak shortly, is what we expect and have learned from Christ, and teach. And Plato, in like manner, used to say that Rhadamanthus and Minos would punish the wicked who came before them; and we say that the same thing will be done, but at the hand of Christ, and upon the wicked in the same bodies united again to their spirits which are now to undergo EVERLASTING punishment; and not only, as Plato said, for a period of a thousand years. (ccel.org/s/schaff/anf01/htm/viii.ii.viii.htm) )
 
For your information, I have been speaking about hell. St. John gives us a vision of the end given to him by God. Even if you assert the lake of fire is figurative, it is certainly a figure of the TORMENT, that in St. John’s version of the end, will await the devil and those that follow him.

Hell is an English word that is even more ambiguoiusly used than the Greek word aionios. No proof text can be made from these words, as though they meant one thing, and one thing only. That’s why I pointed to the very real double-plural aion expression which exists everywhere in the NT as meaning the same thing, according to universalists such as Thayer, and non-universalists alike, such as Kittle, Vine, Strong, et. al.

What the universalists can explain to me is why St. John’s version of the end says nothing of this supposed resoration of those cast into the lake of fire. If this is a temporal thing, then it seems he’s omitted a final chapter to his revelation. I’t simply unconvincing. There are bad guys in the Bible, and in the end, they are cast into the lake of fire for ever and ever (endless future). This is the last we hear of them and this was on purpose, exegetically speaking. Your polemics about English translations are nothing but smoke and mirrors when compared to this Scriptural fact.
 
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itsjustdave1988:
For your information, I have been speaking about hell. St. John gives us a vision of the end given to him by God. Even if you assert the lake of fire is figurative, it is certainly a figure of the TORMENT, that in St. John’s version of the end, will await the devil and those that follow him.
There are other books as well that deal with end times - Isaiah, Daniel, Matthew, Thessalonians. It is figurative of torment - not everlasting punishment - as you pointed out.
Hell is an English word that is even more ambiguoiusly used than the Greek word aionios. No proof text can be made from these words, as though they meant one thing, and one thing only. That’s why I pointed to the very real double-plural aion expression which exists everywhere in the NT as meaning the same thing, according to universalists such as Thayer, and non-universalists alike, such as Kittle, Vine, Strong, et. al.
If you would admit ambiguous meanings of hell, why would you assert it definitively asserts a place of everlasting punishment - since no proof text can be made from these words?
What the universalists can explain to me is why St. John’s version of the end says nothing of this supposed resoration of those cast into the lake of fire. If this is a temporal thing, then it seems he’s omitted a final chapter to his revelation. I’t simply unconvincing. There are bad guys in the Bible, and in the end, they are cast into the lake of fire for ever and ever (endless future). This is the last we hear of them and this was on purpose, exegetically speaking. Your polemics about English translations are nothing but smoke and mirrors when compared to this Scriptural fact.
If Revelation were the only book in the Bible, I suppose your assertion would be true. But, the reality is there are many passages outside of the one book of Revelation that state the reconciliation of all men - and which passages no one has countered to this point. They have been listed in brief on this thread. There are over 150 that teach the position.

Care to explain about the translations which conflict with one another on this point? Hell has left the Bible - including the beloved NAB - which still no one has spoken of. It is indicative of the ridiculous nature of the made-up doctrine of a burning, tormenting and everlasting place so erroneously called “hell”.
 
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itsjustdave1988:
Balderdash! Their patristics polemics lack such credibility they are laughable.

Here’s what Justin Matryr states from the Calvinist source, CCEL, citing the work from Protestant historian Philip Schaff:
Maybe Justin Martyr was contradicting himself - but that wouldn’t happen would it? Only to people like Thomas Thayer???
 
The teaching concerning the lake of fire does not appear anywhere in Scripture except in the book of Revelation where it is spoken of in the following passages: Rev. 14:10-11; 19:20; 20:10; 20:13-15 and 21:8. This last passage definitely states, "But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolators, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone: which is the second death…

The word BURN means combustion, or to consume. To consume does not mean to annihilate, for there is no such thing as annihilation in the absolute sense. When fire consumes a log in your fireplace it does not destroy any of the elements within the log, it merely changes their form. Combustion is the process by which chemicals combine to form new chemicals. For example: a tree might be cut down, sawed into fire wood, and burned. When the wood is burning the heat causes the chemicals of which the wood is composed to vaporize, mixing with the oxygen in the air to form new chemicals, including water and the gas carbon dioxide. So what was formerly a tree is no longer identified as the form of a tree, but the substance thereof is now simply CHANGED into a DIFFERENT FORM and exists in its new form within the atmosphere as water, carbon dioxide, etc. Thus, to bum, means to CHANGE. Furthermore, it is interesting to note that fire does not burn down; it always burns up; it seeks the highest level. And all that it consumes “goes up in smoke,” to exist in a new form in a higher dimension. Even if you take a pan of water and place it over a fire, before long the water will take on the property of the fire and will begin to go up in steam. To burn means to CHANGE, and the change is always UPWARD in its motion.

FIRE is the heat and light that you feel and see when something burns. It takes heat to start a fire, but once the fire is started it produces heat that keeps the process going. Thus, fire is really HEAT and LIGHT. In my study of the lake that burns with fire and brimstone I was very much helped and impressed by the understanding given by Charles Pridgeon and I would like to quote from his scholarly work on the subject of BRIMSTONE. He says: “The Lake of Fire and Brimstone signifies a fire burning with brimstone; the word ‘brimstone’ or sulphur defines the character of the fire. The Greek word THEION translated ‘brimstone’ is exactly the same word THEION which means ‘divine.’ Sulphur was sacred to the deity among the ancient Greeks; and was used to fumigate, to purify, and to cleanse and consecrate to the deity; for this purpose they burned it in their incense. In Homer’s Iliad (16:228), one is spoken of as purifying a goblet with fire and brimstone. The verb derived from THEION is THEIOO, which means to hallow, to make divine, or to dedicate to a god (See Liddell and Scott Greek-English Lexicon, 1897 Edition). To any Greek, or any trained in the Greek language, a ‘lake of fire and brimstone’ would mean a ‘lake of divine purification.’ The idea of judgment need not be excluded. Divine purification and divine consecration are the plain meaning in ancient Greek. In the ordinary explanation, this fundamental meaning of the word is entirely left out, and nothing but eternal torment is associated with it” -end quote.

I realize that the above thoughts define the subject very briefly, but let us summarize the meanings thus: BURN means combustion; to change the form of. FIRE means heat and light. BRIMSTONE means divine. Putting these three together can we not see that the lake burning with fire and brimstone is, actually, DIVINE HEAT AND LIGHT PRODUCING A CHANGE! Is such a process eternal? All the laws of nature shout that it is not.

tentmaker.org/books/TheLakeOfFire-Eby.html
J. Preston Eby, “The Lake of Fire”
 
It is figurative of torment - not everlasting punishment - as you pointed out.
I didn’t point this out. I merely stated that even if one believes the lake of fire to be figurative, one cannot discount that it is a figure of torment (Grk “basanizo”). Yet, the lake of fire and the torment withn lasts **εις τους αιωνας των αιωνων **, as does the life of God, the life of the son of God, the glory of God and His Son, the dominion and reign of God through his Son, and the smoke rising from the torment of the really bad guys in the Bible.

“Basanizo”, according to Thayer, in its usage in Rev 20:10 is defined as “to vex with grievous pains (of body and mind), to torture.

So, the grievous pains in the lake of fire last as long as God’s life, which is a pretty long time, I’d say.
 
Maybe Justin Martyr was contradicting himself - but that wouldn’t happen would it? Only to people like Thomas Thayer???
Perhaps, but you failed to cite the passage in Justin’s work, so it’s difficult to say. Do you even know the passage or did you just blindly quote from your tentmaker source without verifying the source. I believe he was quoting from the same paragraph, but with the clever use of ellipses, concealed the fact that Justin was in disagreement with Plato as to the finite duration of punishment. You can read the entire work as I have or you can rely upon tentmaker to quote out of context as if he supported views that would later be invented by Origen. According to prominent Protestant patristic scholar Philip Schaff, Justin taught the existence of everlasting punishment.
 
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