Hello, A Satanist has joined you

[notsmart]

Imryl, if its not too personal or you feel its off topic just ignore me.
But are you thinking that being in an eternity with God would only bring to your mind pain over sins you would feel you would be too aware of there?
I bet that is a dumb question, but I just thought of it right off the top now.

 

[notsmart]

Is this turning into an inquisition Imryl? If it is, please forgive my question to you. I can understand I would not want to be scrutinized like this, when I was not even asking for opinion on the matter!

 

[JMJ_coder]

I expect to end up in Hell. Although I can’t claim that I believe Hell is all about Satan and his angels. I am of the opinion that Hell is the state of being eternally separated from God. Since I don’t particularly like God I don’t consider that a bad thing. Will it be a pleasant experience? Probably not.

Wow! What can I possibly say to that? That is perhaps the saddest thing I have ever read here (or perhaps anywhere). I shall pray for you.

 

[Imryl]

So you basically think what? That the unpleasant experience of being in Hell for eternity would be less than the unpleasant experience of being in Heaven?

Yes

What led you to the conclusion not just that an eternity in the presence of God wouldn’t be pleasant, but that an eternity in Hell would be preferable

Because I’ve never had a pleasant experience when it comes to God. And all that means is I feel very out of place in such situations.

Do you claim special knowledge as to what Heaven is like on which you base your conclusion that an eternity there would be unbearable?

No.

What exactly do you think being in Heaven would involve that would make it so unbearable?

Being near God, obviously!

Do you believe God created you?

Yes… My daughter too.

If so, what motive do you ascribe to this creation, being that God certainly didn’t HAVE to create you or give you life?

Answering that would involve sounding like a Catholic ^.^ It would also take several pages. Derive from that what you will.

Do you believe that anything that happens without God at least permitting it?

Do I believe that anything happens without God permitting it? No.

How do you account for the goods and blessings that you have had in this life, which have come from Him, ultimately, and that even while you are rejecting Him?

What a fantastic question Lily. I attribute the good things in my life to God. But you won’t find me giving thanks for it… Why does he still bother? I think that speaks to his nature.

but what results (note I’m not saying benefits) have you had/do you expect in this one from practicing your faith?

I’d wager nothing more then anyone else who chooses to pray to God. Do you enjoy that feeling you get on occasion when praying? Well, so do I.

not wanting to be with God, what is it about worshipping Satan that makes it preferable to just being an atheist and worshipping neither?

I am not an atheist because I believe in God and Satan.

Do you believe Satan has any actual power - for example to make Hell more bearable for you or something - that makes it preferable?

I can not speak to that. I don’t know.

Is there something about Satan that attracts you?

Yes

But are you thinking that being in an eternity with God would only bring to your mind pain over sins you would feel you would be too aware of there?

No dear

 

[dzheremi]

If someone feels that they can not maintain a semi-objective attitude then perhaps they are not called to join in that topic of conversation. Not everyone can be a psychologist, counselor, apologist or even a priest.

An objective attitude? This was exactly the point of my relating that story. My desire to maintain an objective sort of “hey, it’s your body” mindset hurt my friend. I let him go on his way and it nearly killed him. I watched it all happen, while trying to maintain an objective attitude because that’s what I thought he would want. Sometimes objectivity needs to take a back seat.

But you could have said everything that you did, which was both right and true, without making a big to-do about “Christians” being forced… or expected to be tolerant.

I don’t see how I made a big to-do about Christians being forced to do anything. I did not use that term (force) or imply that anyone was forcing anyone else to do anything else. If it reads that way to you, I apologize. I should have been more clear. What I did say is that it seems that in the Satanist threads we have had there has been a reoccuring theme on the part of the thread-starters to call for “understanding”, “openmindedness”, “tolerance” on the part of the Christians. Other Satanists have left after finding that tolerance to be lacking in posters here.

My response to that is simply that I don’t understand why someone would be a Satanist, and that if, for the sake of openmindedness, I would treat this religion just the same as any of the three monotheistic religions, I would be committing a terrible error. At least with Islam and Judaism they are focused on worshipping God. Satanism, as I understand it, takes as god the enemy of the Lord: Satan (and, yes, I am aware of the argument that Satanism is the glorification of the self or some such thing and not necessarily the worship of an entity named “Satan”…fine…it still takes as its inspiration the self-glorification and rejection of divine authority that is most fully expressed by the devil). Confronted with that, am I supposed to be open-minded towards Satanism because it is another belief system? No. Not all belief systems warrant my implicit trust, as not all things are equal in intention or practice. And I am concerned about the hereafter…the fate of my soul and the souls of others. So why would I push away that concern that is at the heart of my commitment to my faith just so that I don’t appear judgmental? Keep in mind, if you can step into my shoes for a bit, that this religion is one that is not just in contradiction with my religion, but in contradiction with the idea of God as held by ALL monotheistic religions. It is the inversion and desecration of all that God-fearing people in the world live by. It wants to destroy God, His Church, and all its believers (including me and everyone here). Are we supposed to just say “well, that’s what you believe…we won’t say anything against that; after all, we wouldn’t want to make a big to-do?”

I would rather be God-fearing to a fault than tolerant to a fault.

 

[LilyM]

What a fantastic question Lily. I attribute the good things in my life to God. But you won’t find me giving thanks for it… Why does he still bother? I think that speaks of his nature.

Don’t you think that He deserves thanks for them? I thank my parents for the good they do for me, even though in my life they’ve done some not-good things as well

I’d wager nothing more then anyone else who chooses to pray to God. Do you enjoy that feeling you get on occasion when praying? Well, so do I.

Do you ask for concrete things in your prayers to Satan, specifically from him - and then receive some or all of them? Do you pray to give thanks to Satan for anything? Has Satan done anything or given you anything for which he deserves thanks? Do you think Satan has in and of himself any characteristic or quality that makes him inherently worthy of worship - be it power, strength, goodness, truth, love? Do you think Satan has those qualities moreso than other supernatural beings that you could be worshipping?

In my experience one can get most of the same ‘feelings’, if feelings is what one is after, from certain forms of non-religious meditation. I pray to God for reasons other than feelings.

I’ve answered this question already. Nothing “led” me there. It just happened, and I’ve stuck with it.

I actually re-edited that question. I’m more interested in what praying to Satan provides that, say, outright atheism combined with non-religious meditation practices (which from personal experience, as I said, would produce the same ‘feelings’) wouldn’t provide?

 

[Imryl]

Don’t you think that He deserves thanks for them?

I do not worship God.

Do you ask for concrete things in your prayers to Satan, specifically from him - and then receive some or all of them?

Yes. Strength, perseverance, patience, the ability to do what I need to do, and the ability to ignore that pesky conscience of mine!

Do you pray to give thanks to Satan for anything? Has Satan done anything or given you anything for which he deserves thanks?

For all of the things above, and more

Do you think Satan has in and of himself any characteristic or quality that makes him inherently worthy of worship - be it power, strength, goodness, truth, love?

Strike goodness, truth and love. Those qualities don’t really call to me.

Do you think Satan has those qualities moreso than other supernatural beings that you could be worshipping?

I have a tendency to use satan as a plural sometimes. I just prefer Satan.

I pray to God for reasons other than feelings.

I understand. And I pray for reasons other then feelings. Unfortunately when someone asks, “What do you get…” to a satanist they’re expecting something spectacular. I don’t hear voices, see visions, have any special insight into the things of this world or eternity. Since you were more clear what you wanted in this post I have given you a few examples above.

I actually re-edited that question.

I saw that and fixed my previous post ;p

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

A Satanist has joined us…yipee LOL…I noticed on this thread that the Satanist is getting better treatment than most Protestants get in here most of the time! LOL…

 

[ChristianKnight]

Greetings,

I am a new member here and am a LeVeyan Satanist. I believe in tolerance and I’m here for intellectual conversations about religion, nothing more. We’re not as harmful as we sound, not even close. And though our beliefs are different I know we can get along just fine. If you do wish to flame me, insult me, curse me to the depths of oblivion, or anything else, remember I am still a child. Well, essentially, technically a teenager. But not an adult, none the less.

DON’T try to convert me, that is a step too far, even if you have righteous motives they’ll be in vain. Here’s to looking forward to many conversations. Cheers,

Arnoagns

This isn’t exactly the best place to have deep discussions and not attempted to be converted.

 

[notsmart]

A Satanist has joined us…yipee LOL…I noticed on this thread that the Satanist is getting better treatment than most Protestants get in here most of the time! LOL…

The OP never made a reply. Imryl has, and is not the same kind of satanist but she is a bit condescending.

“No dear”

 

[notsmart]

This isn’t exactly the best place to have deep discussions and not attempted to be converted.

What are you going to try?
I think we should get a pig farmer out here, and have a priest come and cast them into the pigs. Hey, Jesus did that.

 

[ChristianKnight]

What are you going to try?
I think we should get a pig farmer out here, and have a priest come and cast them into the pigs. Hey, Jesus did that.

What are you talking about?

 

[notsmart]

What are you talking about?

Jesus cast satan’s demons into a bunch of pigs in your bible.
They begged him not to kill them.
They went hurtling off a cliff. Then the people got really mad at Jesus at wanted to kill him.

 

[LilyM]

Yes. Strength, perseverance, patience, the ability to do what I need to do, and the ability to ignore that pesky conscience of mine!

Aah, but you don’t really get any of those things (not even the free will which enables you to ignore your conscience) from Satan, ultimately, but through either the action or permission of God.

So to make an analogy, while you can rightly thank the actor for playing a part well, you can’t ALSO thank them, being a mere actor and nothing else, for the brilliant script, the great stage direction, the generous loan of the theatre space, the wonderful costumes - none of which is their doing. You’re giving Satan far more credit than he’s worth with the things you attribute to him.

All comes from God, ultimately, even the very being of Satan himself, with all that entails, and all of those qualities Satan has for which you wrongly worship him, rather than worshipping the One who permitted him to be and be as he is.

So - why worship a being who inherently possesses nothing that is worthy of worship?

 

[notsmart]

Aah, but you don’t really get any of those things (not even the free will which enables you to ignore your conscience) from Satan, ultimately, but through either the action or permission of God.

So to make an analogy, while you can rightly thank the actor for playing a part well, you can’t ALSO thank them, being a mere actor and nothing else, for the brilliant script, the great stage direction, the generous loan of the theatre space, the wonderful costumes - none of which is their doing. You’re giving Satan far more credit than he’s worth with the things you attribute to him.

All comes from God, ultimately, even the very being of Satan himself, with all that entails, and all of those qualities Satan has for which you wrongly worship him, rather than worshipping the One who permitted him to be and be as he is.

So - why worship a being who inherently possesses nothing that is worthy of worship?

What if Satan has demonically possessed her?
She would not be guilty of sin.

 

[LilyM]

What if Satan has demonically possessed her?
She would not be guilty of sin.

Demonic possession (which is a different thing to demonic OPression or attack) cannot happen to a person without their consent and invitation. So in such a case she could possibly be guilty of sin

 

[notsmart]

Demonic possession (which is a different thing to demonic OPression or attack) cannot happen to a person without their consent and invitation. So in such a case she could possibly be guilty of sin

I had no idea.

But, if that is true she sounds slightly unsure of her position. She mentioned considering Catholicism…
She even alluded to (to me anyway) that there were some simmilar aspects to the two.
That hardly shocks me, because Satan was so good at mixing truth with lie.

But, I still think anyone who claims they were (I think she said always like this?) then, what is the culpability?

 

[Imryl]

Monica - No dear isn’t meant to be condescending! I say it all the time!

Aah, but you don’t really get any of those things from Satan, ultimately, but through either the action or permission of God.

Sure you do. Just because Satan might need “permission” doesn’t mean he doesn’t dole it out himself.

You’re giving Satan far more credit than he’s worth with the things you attribute to him.

And you’re not giving him enough… Satan is not impotent, not stupid, and not powerless.

Although honestly, you are your own worst enemy in these cases. God won’t force you to submit, and Satan can’t do much unless you allow him to.

and all of those qualities Satan has for which you wrongly worship him

I told you the things I pray for. I’ve kept the qualities for which I worship Satan to myself.

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

I have been reading these posts and is it my imagination that the op that started this hasn’t responded to one post here? Perhaps this was started to get others to fight and argue with satanism? Be careful. He is everywhere.

 

[ralphinal]

I have been reading these posts and is it my imagination that the op that started this hasn’t responded to one post here? Perhaps this was started to get others to fight and argue with satanism? Be careful. He is everywhere.

It is also possible that he is a school kid in America and was out of school Tuesday but now cannot get on because his parents won’t let him.

Either way, the devil has sown discord.