Hello. I am seeking some advice on marriage issues

[tbcrawford]

Corinne i have no clever advice for you i just want you to know how my heart breaks for you.
You are being so very brave.Whatever happens,whatever you decide to do i pray God will bless you

 

[whatevergirl]

Dear Spirit and Whatevergirl with the cute kitty pic: (love kitties too)…hehehe

Thank you for your great advice. This is the thing i am seeking. What to do---- What steps to take what boundaries to have…etc. I cannot just say, “OK hun u can move home again, i forgive u”, like i did for the past 2-3 years, then have him break my heart again with his old patterns. I know now i have to have a plan, steps that i see HIM taking, so i can know he is putting in the work to restore our marriage. Thank you for helping me know what to do.

We did go to Marriage Encounter a few years ago. i felt like, as another poster said here i was the only one participating. My h slept through all the meetings, then our assignments we were supposed to do in our room, his were all joking around while mine were serious. UGH. When it came time to renew our vows, i cried through the whole thing looking at him, and i felt his eyes were blank, and not taking it all too serriously (after porn use i guess). Oh my gosh. i guess this stripper thing was the next step after his occasional porn use for the duration of our marriage. i have heard this is common, an escalating issue. i have a few friends at church who have encountered the exact same thing, first was the porn, then came a prostitute if you can believe it…these are ladies in their 60’s too. one is divorced, 2 are still married. It’s so hard. all the same. Thank u for the plan i need to hear , to have a plan before my h comes home. He was here just now picking up his mail, saying, “of course i still want to be married to you”, and we said we missed each other and kissed. OMG. weak knees. He does this to me.

thank u for all recommendations. Yes going to daily Mass, praying the Rosary too daily, with your recommendations, praying for healing and restoration of my heart, that it will stop bleeding, and for my husband’s heart and for his repentence.

i appreciate all your replies, even if i don’t mention you all by name.

*Hi Corinne…so he came home, picked up his mail and then where did he go? I think at some point, you have to stand up for yourself. Just from what you post here, it doesn’t sound like your husband takes marriage seriously…or you seriously. He treats you like he can come and go when he pleases, and do whatever he pleases and you’ll always be there. That is different than you choosing to forgive, and have a truly remorseful husband coming home to you. If he is going to come home, and things remain the status quo (he is viewing porn, he is coming and going with no care to you, he is going to strip clubs, etc) what have YOU gained by him coming home? I guess my point is…is this the marriage you want, or do you want your husband to love you the way Christ loved the Church? I can’t tell you to stay or divorce, certainly, not my place…but you have to ask yourself these tough questions…do you just want your husband, his behaviors and all, to come back to you…or do you want a truly remorseful man, who is willing to love you the way you deserve, to come back to you? Personally, I wouldn’t tolerate my husband living with a stripper. He would have to make a choice, and if he wanted back in the home…he would need to show MEGA progress through counseling, and how he treated me. But, that is me, you have to find your own path. I just encourage you to not let your husband treat you like you don’t matter, and only he matters. You matter too!

Prayers for you…and a hug. :hug1:*

 

[Corinne3]

Hi Corinne…so he came home, picked up his mail and then where did he go? I think at some point, you have to stand up for yourself. Just from what you post here, it doesn’t sound like your husband takes marriage seriously…or you seriously. He treats you like he can come and go when he pleases, and do whatever he pleases and you’ll always be there. That is different than you choosing to forgive, and have a truly remorseful husband coming home to you. If he is going to come home, and things remain the status quo (he is viewing porn, he is coming and going with no care to you, he is going to strip clubs, etc) what have YOU gained by him coming home? I guess my point is…is this the marriage you want, or do you want your husband to love you the way Christ loved the Church? I can’t tell you to stay or divorce, certainly, not my place…but you have to ask yourself these tough questions…do you just want your husband, his behaviors and all, to come back to you…or do you want a truly remorseful man, who is willing to love you the way you deserve, to come back to you? Personally, I wouldn’t tolerate my husband living with a stripper. He would have to make a choice, and if he wanted back in the home…he would forums.catholic-questions.org/images/smilies/wink.gifneed to show MEGA progress through counseling, and how he treated me. But, that is me, you have to find your own path. I just encourage you to not let your husband treat you like you don’t matter, and only he matters. You matter too!

Prayers for you…and a hug. :hug1:

Thank you. He came and picked his mail up, we talked for 5 minutes then he left. Of course, What I want the most is a remorseful husband who is putting real work and effort into restoring his life, getting over his stripper addiction, stopping it, and me witnessing real effort he is making on restoring our marriage to a loving one, treating me the way i deserve, with respect, etc. Not just a husband who just jogs back in the home says “it won’t happen again” and then i find out it did. NO WAY. I have been through this 4 times now for the past 2 years, where i found out his lies and deceit, and then i threw him out again. Besides the good steps mentioned above, counseling, bible study, etc. what other boundaries do you feel i should be taking? I did ask him to call first before he comes to get his mail. He complies with this. What else? He asked me with our upcoming anniversary if i want to go out. I said no i don’t, and that i don’t feel i have anything to celebrate, infidelity? i don’t think so. He said of course we do, our beautiful kids, etc…am i wrong in not wanting to go out for our anniversary? i don’t think so. The same thing happened last year. I didn’t want to go. My gut was right, because shortly thereafter i discovered 250 text messages on another phone he had bought that he told me was for his work. DECEIT big time. I asked him to see the account on line, then he fessed up and i saw all the texts.

One of my counselors says i should completely leave him alone, and leave him to God. No contact unless it pertains to the kids, or something like that, money, a house problem. And not even inquire about what he is doing to work on his issues, but that is hard because i really would want to know what he is doing as far as his counseling sessions, etc. Also he’ll open a chat when we’re both on line, and it’s so easy to say hi back or something. I don’;t know if this is a good idea, it keeps me entangled as i love him so much. Boy reading what i write i really sound like a doormat don’t i? i don’t want to be. i just can’t stop loving and caring about him it seems, and i feel as a good Catholic, they’re always preaching about love, forgiveness, etc., if i just ignore him i feel like i am being unkind, or game playing. need to find the balance…

OK question whatevergirl: What can i do to get a remorseful, loving husband who truly wants to be a good husband from now on and come back to me honest and working on his issues? What should i be doing/not doing, or saying to him/or not saying to him?

 

[anode]

Corinne, You and your husband TOGETHER have to go and see a trained marriage counselor–this has to be a condition for your taking him back and/or continuing in the marriage. I don’t mean Marriage Encounter or your talking to a priest or sympathetic Catholic friend. I mean going to a trained marriage counselor who may be Catholic, but is is going to listen to and counsel you professionally.

If your husband won’t go, this will give you an indication as to what you may expect in the future. Tell him that he has to go as a condition for staying married to you. I think that he’ll go.

 

[whatevergirl]

*I don’t think the boundaries your counselor have suggested a bad ideas…they sound beneficial. As this continues along this way, you and your husband are living in ‘‘limbo’’…no progress forward. Just seems like he wants the marriage in one corner, and whoever in the other. That is not a marriage. That is…I don’t know what that is. No other woman should be competing for your husband’s time…and until that changes, the marriage stays in this limbo state. The question then becomes, how long do you see yourself living like this? Another 6 months…year…two years? Whatever timeframe you can come up with in your mind, should be what you tell your husband, and mean it. Really. It’s not an ultimatum, but it’s a deadline for things to progress one way or the other. It is wholly unfair for your children to be witnessing this, also. Your husband needs to make a choice, you or the immoral life he leads…if he chooses you, then he comes back home and you work on the marriage, and he gets help for his addictions. If it is not you, then he needs to move out and you need to move on. But, to live with a husband half in and half out of the house…making empty promises…seeking out more women…it’s not healthy whatsoever for you, him, or the kids.

So…instead of boundaries, I would start thinking about how much longer you can see yourself living in this status? Once you really get a handle on that, your decision making will be clearer and easier. I hope this helps. *

 

[spirit4life]

. . . . .

OK question whatevergirl: What can i do to get a remorseful, loving husband who truly wants to be a good husband from now on and come back to me honest and working on his issues? What should i be doing/not doing, or saying to him/or not saying to him?

Ok, so you understand the steps; good; HERE is step 1 : shop.catholic.com/product.php?productid=178

Would be good for you to listen to it too/first. Listen to CD1 , then send him home/away with CD1 (homework) for him to listen to, then meet with him to ‘discuss’ CD1. That way, you’ll know he listened to it. Hold his feet to the fire if he doesn’t; seriously! Follow this process thru all of the four CD’s, one at a time, making sure he ‘gets’ each cd before moving on to the next.
You’ll get a better idea of the problem he faces, and can be an integral part of the solution this way. Remember, this is only step 1. Your problems did not ‘evolve’ overnight - they’re not going to be ‘resolved’ overnight, but slow, sure, steady progress WILL take you to where you need to be. Each of your ‘steps’ will be like this; a learning process for both of you - to interact and discuss. Future steps will include other things already suggested.

 

[ryecroft]

My condolences on your situation. If this is something that your husband was doing and kept from you before you got married - especially if he lied (not just by omission) - then if it comes to you wanting to try to do a divorce/annulment you may have some pretty strong footing. It would mean he never intended to be faithful to you and therefore didn’t truthfully take his vows. I would have a hard time believing (if it’s been going on and as often as it sounds) that he has NEVER, EVER taken it farther than a “lap” dance (not that a lap dance isn’t far enough - bottom line - if it’s something he wouldn’t do or would feel embarased if he did with you right there by him then it’s too far and unacceptable. It’s unacceptable even if he would do it actually. I’m so sorry - but if you feel that you can never trust him again - and if there’s no remorse, I don’t know how that could happen- then perhaps the best thing would be to cut your losses. Your heart is hurt and you deserve better than to have it get battered repeatedly by someone who isn’t sorry for what he’s done because he doesn’t consider it wrong.
God Bless
Rye

 

[ManOnFire]

If one chooses a life of selfish indulgence of the basic instincts, one will walk around like a person with a teaspoon and a sugar bowl: dipping the teaspoon into the sugar bowl frequently, taking a sweet lick that doesn’t last, constantly searching for the next temporary high via sex, drugs, materialism, extreme vanity, gambling, food, pursuit of trying to invent something artificially different for the few seconds of shallow amusement it provides, to no long term satisfaction. Once the temporary high wears off, the search for the next high continues indefinitely.

If one chooses to give one’s life to the Church’s way of sacrificial, true love for spouse and kids, one can experience the True love that makes one’s heart sing and will rock you to the depths of your bones. Deep, romantic, sacrificial, True Love via God’s Covenant for man and woman is The Way, The Truth, and The Life.

If it’s not too late, print out this post and ask your spouse to read it. EVERTYONE needs to make a choice of which of the 2 lifestyles the two of you will PRIMARILY pursue. There’s no other way. Pop culture is a giant wedge that will force passionate people to decide, one path or the other. The Soul can be free and made clean again through Reconciliation. Forgive yourselves and each other. We are only human. Forget the past. This is the chance for a new beginning. That’s what I love most about the Catholic Church: the Soul can be free and clean and new if you forgive and are forgiven. True Love is always possible for anyone with a clean soul, regardless of the past. If being influenced by pop culture causes sin, then it is our duty to minimize it’s influence on our lives.

I think the missing link that our society struggles to understand is birth control. Birth control allows us to have few kids, and, consequently, we can VOLUNTARILY choose to be selfish via the temporary highs of sex, drugs, materialism, extreme vanity, gambling, food, pursuit of trying to invent something artificially different for the few seconds of shallow amusement it provides, to find no deep satisfaction, instead of the deep romanticism of struggle, committment, fortitude, sacrifice, and appreciation etc. The difference appears to be that the lack of birth control causes large families. Large families where mom and dad are committed to the Church’s Way produces INVOLUNTARY sacrifice for our families for those who are strong enough, romantic enough, and responsible enough not to run from one’s many babies.

In my experience, sacrifice has created more sacrifice than I ever thought possible, and selfishness creates more selfishness in most cases. Correct me if I am wrong.

 

[Corinne3]

Ok, so you understand the steps; good; HERE is step 1 : shop.catholic.com/product.php?productid=178

Would be good for you to listen to it too/first. Listen to CD1 , then send him home/away with CD1 (homework) for him to listen to, then meet with him to ‘discuss’ CD1. That way, you’ll know he listened to it. Hold his feet to the fire if he doesn’t; seriously! Follow this process thru all of the four CD’s, one at a time, making sure he ‘gets’ each cd before moving on to the next.
You’ll get a better idea of the problem he faces, and can be an integral part of the solution this way. Remember, this is only step 1. Your problems did not ‘evolve’ overnight - they’re not going to be ‘resolved’ overnight, but slow, sure, steady progress WILL take you to where you need to be. Each of your ‘steps’ will be like this; a learning process for both of you - to interact and discuss. Future steps will include other things already suggested.

Jason Evert sent me those CD’s about a year ago to give to my husband. I think he listened to a little of the first one, and that was it…See, he wasn’t ready to change, who knows still if he is. I love Jason’s work he does, and those tapes can be simply awesome for a man truly wanting to overcome this problem. I also love the show “Marriage Works in Christ” and “Crossing the Goal”. I tried to get my h to get interested in both of these, he just scoffed at both of them. I think he is really having a spiritual battle, torn in both directions…pop culture…and the way of the Spirit, like Man on Fire mentioned. So…i can just pray at this point, pursue counseling and live my life on fire for the Lord. Went to Mass today, and it was so neat, i came away with the response for today, “If today you hear his voice, harden not your hearts”. I don’t want my heart to ever be hardened. I want to be open to where God ls leading. But, you cannot force your spouse to be a believer and follow Christ.

 

[ryecroft]

]

Jason Evert sent me those CD’s about a year ago to give to my husband. I think he listened to a little of the first one, and that was it…See, he wasn’t ready to change, who knows still if he is. I love Jason’s work he does, and those tapes can be simply awesome for a man truly wanting to overcome this problem. I also love the show “Marriage Works in Christ” and “Crossing the Goal”. I tried to get my h to get interested in both of these, he just scoffed at both of them. I think he is really having a spiritual battle, torn in both directions…pop culture…and the way of the Spirit, like Man on Fire mentioned. So…i can just pray at this point, pursue counseling and live my life on fire for the Lord. Went to Mass today, and it was so neat, i came away with the response for today, “If today you hear his voice, harden not your hearts”. I don’t want my heart to ever be hardened. I want to be open to where God ls leading. But, you cannot force your spouse to be a believer and follow Christ.

 

[Corinne3]

Hi Rye, and thank u.

I am confident it was nothing more than “nude lap dances”…ycch.The thought of him groping and salivating over another woman, is quite enough. While doing much soul searching for the past 2 years, when i found out about all this, believe me, i did question, search, implore, contact the stripper, and i am confident it was nothing more.I know this in my heart definately. But thx for your concern. It’s amazing how our gut and our intuition really does let us know things when we get in tune with it and pray. I feel confident Rye that it was just this. But of course “this” was/is quite amply enough as it is. My heart has still been completely shattered, vulnerable and torn to shreds because of it.

Thank u so much for your concern for me. It means so much.

We hopefully be embarking on marital counseling upcoming. Will keep everyone posted. There is much healing to be done, especially on my end, but i keep in mind the past is just that the past. And i love my husband, committed my life and heart to him forever, and he says he feels the same and doesn’t want a divorce, as i don’t either. Things are not ever always easy for us Catholics following Christ are they? There may be lots of suffering along the way for sure. And non-Christians telling us what to do. As i and others have known full well. But, if it means for the good, for eternity, i can go the course, and i want to. My deepest prayer is to my Lord, that HE will help me endure to the end, be faithful, even if my h is not, pray for my husband’s conversion, stand beside him always, and one day, be a Saint in heaven. Pray for our marriage if you will, going forward. Thank you so much. And please dear friends, pray for my husband, his name is Mark.

~Corinne~

Hail Mary full of grace, the Lord is with ME,…Holy Mary, mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death…

 

[HouseArrest]

OK question whatevergirl: **What can i do **to get a remorseful, loving husband who truly wants to be a good husband from now on and come back to me honest and working on his issues? What should i be doing/not doing, or saying to him/or not saying to him?

You can’t do this for him. He has to do it. You can’t even do anything to get him to want to do it.

Well, you can pray. And not allow yourself to be disrespected with this kind of behavior.

 

[Corinne3]

You can’t do this for him. He has to do it. You can’t even do anything to get him to want to do it.

Well, you can pray. And not allow yourself to be disrespected with this kind of behavior.

Doesn’t Jesus say: in Matt. 5:39: ******“But I say to you, offer no resistance to one who is evil. When someone strikes you on your right cheek, turn the other one to him as well.”

 

[proudnifi]

Doesn’t Jesus say: in Matt. 5:39: ******“But I say to you, offer no resistance to one who is evil. When someone strikes you on your right cheek, turn the other one to him as well.”

I think this is Jesus telling us not to retaliate; it comes after a reference to the old eye-for-an-eye, tooth-for-a-tooth. So, it would not be ok for you to do things that your husband dislikes to get back at him (also his infidelities wouldn’t give you the right to be unfaithful to him or to hit him, etc).

Jesus didn’t intend for us to be punching bags or doormats. The catechism clearly allows self-defense. The Church has no problem with spouses pursuing legal separation for things like adultery or spiritual harm. I mention the spiritual harm not only for your sake, but your children as well.

Whether you separate or not is your choice. From what you write, you wouldn’t necessarily be a bad Catholic for pursuing a legal separation. In some cases, I could see such a thing as witnessing for the faith (showing that active adultery is not ok, living chastely to show that adultery itself doesn’t invalidate a marriage, etc).

 

[spirit4life]

Jason Evert sent me those CD’s about a year ago to give to my husband. I think he listened to a little of the first one, and that was it…See, he wasn’t ready to change, who knows still if he is. I love Jason’s work he does, and those tapes can be simply awesome for a man truly wanting to overcome this problem. I also love the show “Marriage Works in Christ” and “Crossing the Goal”. I tried to get my h to get interested in both of these, he just scoffed at both of them. I think he is really having a spiritual battle, torn in both directions…pop culture…and the way of the Spirit, like Man on Fire mentioned. So…i can just pray at this point, pursue counseling and live my life on fire for the Lord. Went to Mass today, and it was so neat, i came away with the response for today, “If today you hear his voice, harden not your hearts”. I don’t want my heart to ever be hardened. I want to be open to where God ls leading. But, you cannot force your spouse to be a believer and follow Christ.

Ok then, it looks like you are actually at least a couple of steps (and years) into this process (Retrovaille and these Purity CD’s you’ve already tried weren’t mentioned in original post). Have hope - and keep chipping away (every step will have an affect, even if you can’t tell). Before I go spouting off on details for more suggestions, can you let us know what else you may have already tried, but haven’t mentioned yet? Counseling is great and recommended as already suggested, but there must also be some spiritual formation and growth efforts made simultaneously. For example, ACTS or Cursillo retreat, FamilyLand retreat, couples-Bible-Study, RCIA, or any other spirit-building program?

I think it speaks volume’s of you that you are this deep into this problem, facing his appearant lack of progress, yet still attempting on charitable terms to get him to ‘see the light’! Have faith & Hope - God CAN make it happen!

 

[Corinne3]

I think this is Jesus telling us not to retaliate; it comes after a reference to the old eye-for-an-eye, tooth-for-a-tooth. So, it would not be ok for you to do things that your husband dislikes to get back at him (also his infidelities wouldn’t give you the right to be unfaithful to him or to hit him, etc).
Jesus didn’t intend for us to be punching bags or doormats. The catechism clearly allows self-defense. The Church has no problem with spouses pursuing legal separation for things like adultery or spiritual harm. I mention the spiritual harm not only for your sake, but your children as well.
Whether you separate or not is your choice. From what you write, you wouldn’t necessarily be a bad Catholic for pursuing a legal separation. In some cases, I could see such a thing as witnessing for the faith (showing that active adultery is not ok, living chastely to show that adultery itself doesn’t invalidate a marriage, etc).

I am really having such a hard time with this as many of you friends can see. Thank u so much for reminding me not to retaliate, I don’t want to and i do think Jesus will speak for himself ultimately.

I appeciate all your fine help, as you have offered so far. Thank you!@ I guess it ultimately is up to me and the Lord to guide and direct me into all truth. I love my husband and he loves me, and i do think he has a “sex addiction problem” which is so very hard for him to break at this time. Yes, I am devastated by it, yes i feel unloved by it, yes i feel like a doormat from it; but yes too, I want and desire good to come from it; yes I want to love always, yes, i want to forgive; yes, i want my marriage ,Yes, I want good to come to from all of it; yes, i love my husband still. Yes, i will never give up being faithfull till the day i die;. I will never give up. Ever. ever.

 

[Corinne3]

OK you asked, here it is. We have been to probably 10 counselors, priests, pastors, laymen alike, in the past 7 years, or so, to no avail. We have been to Marriage Encounter, to no avail. He has been to “Every Man’s Battle” intensive weekend workshop, and was given the book “Every Man’s Battle”, and others to no avail. We have been separated now for the 4th time in 2 years, to no avail, for his same “stripper obsession”. I asked him yesterday if he wants to be separated again for another 6 months. His response was “not really”…Upon further inquiry, he said “no of course not”…and the list of how much he loves me and the kids. etc…Upon reading my own responses here, i would say any other poster that this man clearly could care less about his marriage. I guess i need to see it. hear it, absorb it. I have no financial means of support which is my greatest fear right now. i feel i am not strong enough to support myself at my age, in my 50’s so i feel it may be just better to have him around, than to fend for myself. Dunno. My whole scenario really makes me think men are pigs, all of them. Only out for their own lusts and selfish desires. To be unfaithful anytime the opportunity arises. YCCH. BUT, my dad is not, nor is my brother or cousins, etc. They are all good honest Christian men, for sure. So pardon…there are some good honest Christian men out there still. You women who have one are soooooooo lucky. I guess it takes a lot of love to get past this obstacle. Maybe God has a plan for me, to do just this, and one day for my h and i to tell our story, our testimony. i hope so. pray so. do not know what’s up God’s sleeve, but whatever it is, it is what i want.

 

[PeterMuz]

OK you asked, here it is. We have been to probably 10 counselors, priests, pastors, laymen alike, in the past 7 years, or so, to no avail. We have been to Marriage Encounter, to no avail. He has been to “Every Man’s Battle” intensive weekend workshop, and was given the book “Every Man’s Battle”, and others to no avail. We have been separated now for the 4th time in 2 years, to no avail, for his same “stripper obsession”. I asked him yesterday if he wants to be separated again for another 6 months. His response was “not really”…Upon further inquiry, he said “no of course not”…and the list of how much he loves me and the kids. etc…

Corinne,
The list you give above… How many of those things did you Husband suggest or insist on trying? I believe in another post you said the two of you were going to more counseling soon. I makes this time any different?
You also asked a question to Whatevergirl about how you change your husband. You cannot change him. Only God can do that. But God will only do that, if you husband truly desires to change. I would say at this point that he has clearly shown a that he has no real intention of changing. As long as he knows you will eventually let him come back to you, he will not change.

I am still praying.

 

[Corinne3]

Corinne,
The list you give above… How many of those things did you Husband suggest or insist on trying? I believe in another post you said the two of you were going to more counseling soon. I makes this time any different?
You also asked a question to Whatevergirl about how you change your husband. You cannot change him. Only God can do that. But God will only do that, if you husband truly desires to change. I would say at this point that he has clearly shown a that he has no real intention of changing. As long as he knows you will eventually let him come back to you, he will not change.

I am still praying.

None. I instigated them all. Every single one, probably around 10-15 total. I paid $1,000 and signed him up for the intensive weekend for men with porn issues after one episode of catching him watching porn in the middle of the night, and of course I was the one who suggested our 2 individual counselors (from the same facility) and that the 4 of us get together for marriage counseling…My h agreed,HE made the call suggesting it actually, (AMAZING) and we;re going soon. Should be interesting. Now, how do i know if this time will be any different? i have no way of knowing. I don’t think i want him to move home anytime soon, if at all, as i have been through way too much already, and cannot risk being hurt again. You say “as long as he knows I will eventually let him come back to me, he will not change”. U are probably right. What should i do then? Say “it’s over, there’s no way i;m going through this again”? That IS how i really do feel at this point anyway. We’re not going to counseling just so i let him move back home. No way. But maybe to gain some more perspective from these Christian counselors. I will express my feelings in our session for sure.

Thank u for your feedback. I appreciate it so much. It really helps.

I’d really like to hear back from you re: what is the best thing i could do, to light a match under him to want to seek change for himself???moving away??? lol I know getting on with my life regardless, and letting go and letting God. That’s what i am doing. Finally. I know i cannot change another, only myself. Sure have learned a lot in 2 years~

 

[ManOnFire]

Corrinne:

my 2 cents:

Try to redirect his desire for fun. Men crave adventure. Unfortunately, too many of us are looking for it in the wrong places. Paintball, laser tag, hunting, shooting trap (a shotgun course where clay disks are ejected into the air at various stations and in various configurations like a golf course), an overnight fishing trip with the right group of friends, taking your kids out for a hike or bike ride and picnic, etc. Believe it or not, for us, playing freeze tag in the yard between 3 bases with the kids really gets “the hunter and the hunted” juices flowing and is a surprisingly good opportunity for adults to act like children again. Hopefully you don’t live in the urban jungle where men are naturally deprived of the adventures of the safer kind. If so, find a way to get out to a nature trail frequently.