Help Finding Modest Clothes

[Walking_Home]

I never said she was going to Hell, but it is a possibility if we willfully neglect our responsibilities to dress modestly, not to put temptation in front of the weak, etc. If she’s complaining she must wear less clothing because it’s hot, and she thinks she will “die” if she doesn’t, it is wise to remember that Hell will be much hotter and that we should be willing to suffer in this life to be virtuous, rather than resort to lowering ourselves to sins of the flesh in this life for our mere comfort.

**I said nothing that wasn’t preached from the pulpit by the FSSP priest at the parish I attended throughout Lent. **

Of course I’m concerned about my soul, as should everyone else be. We live in a world that doesn’t even recognize sin anymore. I make frequent use of devotional confession as to continue to receive the sacramental graces in order to advance in holiness. If you’re not concerned about your soul, then I worry for you.

This coming from the person who insisted I had “issues” and “hang ups” . I live in 2011 too, and you know what? I shop at the same stores that other women my age shop at. The difference is I make a conscience effort to keep myself covered. I’m not overly attached to fashion trends and making sure I’m dressed to the 9’s. I dress to suit my figure, and modestly attractive. By modestly attractive, I mean not only that I’m properly covered, but also that I do not draw attention to myself or overly ornate. I keep my fashion simple and pleasant-looking. I don’t need to try hard, or go out of my way to look beautiful, because I am naturally beautiful, and I put more focus on being virtuous.

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Did your FSSP priest say anything about the responsibility of men keeping custody of their eyes—or did the priest place all the burden on the women.

 

[Chen_Zhen]

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There are icons of our Blessed Mother with Her breast exposed. Would you say this representation of our Lady falls into material sin.

And yes both men and women are at fault–so if men start working harder at keeping modesty/custody of the eyes–women would then not be pushed into the unhealthy extreme view that unless they are covered up from neck to foot–they are leading men to sin.

Sin is in the ill will of man.
Here is a reference from the Catholic Encyclopedia:
This distinction is based upon the difference between the objective elements (object itself, circumstances) and the subjective (advertence to the sinfulness of the act). An action which, as a matter of fact, is contrary to the Divine law but is not known to be such by the agent constitutes a material sin; whereas formal sin is committed when the agent freely transgresses the law as shown him by his conscience, whether such law really exists or is only thought to exist by him who acts. Thus, a person who takes the property of another while believing it to be his own commits a material sin; but the sin would be formal if he took the property in the belief that it belonged to another, whether his belief were correct or not.

Other than that this argument will go nowhere because you do not know my standards for dress and I do not know yours, or why. It will just turn into an argument of wills.

 

[Love_Divine]

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Did your FSSP priest say anything about the responsibility of men keeping custody of their eyes—or did the priest place all the burden on the women.

Oh, he didn’t put the entire burden on women, and stated that men need to work at not entertaining impure thoughts. He did say that it is our responsibility as women, not to dress immodestly as to not place temptation in front of the weak. He also said that we are to treat our bodies as the Temples, and that the reason we clothe ourselves is to cover what should be covered- our shoulders, entire thighs, and everything in between. I got rid of my knee length skirt after than Sunday because it didn’t cover my entire thighs when I sat.

 

[Walking_Home]

**Sin is in the ill will of man. **
Here is a reference from the Catholic Encyclopedia:
This distinction is based upon the difference between the objective elements (object itself, circumstances) and the subjective (advertence to the sinfulness of the act). An action which, as a matter of fact, is contrary to the Divine law but is not known to be such by the agent constitutes a material sin; whereas formal sin is committed when the agent freely transgresses the law as shown him by his conscience, whether such law really exists or is only thought to exist by him who acts. Thus, a person who takes the property of another while believing it to be his own commits a material sin; but the sin would be formal if he took the property in the belief that it belonged to another, whether his belief were correct or not.

Other than that this argument will go nowhere because you do not know my standards for dress and I do not know yours, or why. It will just turn into an argument of wills.

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Right–sin is in the ill will of man–so a man who looks upon a woman–whether this woman is fully/unfully covered is responsible for his own lustful/lecherous/ill will.

As far as knowing your standards of dress–well you have made it known you are partial to the Pakistani lawn type of dress for women. We know how you want to “fix” women–but not really how you are working to “fix” your own “weak” eyes/mind.

 

[Chen_Zhen]

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Right–sin is in the ill will of man–so a man who looks upon a woman–whether this woman is fully/unfully covered is responsible for his own lustful/lecherous/ill will.

As far as knowing your standards of dress–well you have made it known you are partial to the Pakistani lawn type of dress for women. We know how you want to “fix” women–but not really how you are working to “fix” your own “weak” eyes/mind.

Yes, I like those dresses…but you don’t understand me. I do not say all women should dress like this.
The thread was about modest fashion. So I gave my ideas on good modest fashion out of what I believe to be beautiful styles. My hope is that the original poster can benefit from that and some other suggestions I gave. I gave those suggestions because I grow tired of everyone thinking “modest” means wearing a burqua or dressing in amish clothes. I would hope for women to have fun and enjoy creating ways to dress. The fashion industry I see prevalent in pop culture is tired/boring.
You are making a judgement by telling me I have weak eyes. I never said that. All my points were based around women needing to accept that it is possible they could be leading a man to sin if they do not dress appropriate, whatever that standard may be. Do men need to avert there eyes, yes! An women need to take into account that what they wear just may not be such a good idea.

 

[Walking_Home]

Oh, he didn’t put the entire burden on women, and stated that men need to work at not entertaining impure thoughts. He did say that it is our responsibility as women, not to dress immodestly as to not place temptation in front of the weak. He also said that we are to treat our bodies as the Temples, and that the reason we clothe ourselves is to cover what should be covered- our shoulders, entire thighs, and everything in between. I got rid of my knee length skirt after than Sunday because it didn’t cover my entire thighs when I sat.

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Good to know–now if the FSSP priest keeps it up–and continues to point out to the men that they need to work at not entertaining impure thoughts and to keep custody of the eyes–we may hopefully end up with much stronger moral fibered men–who will not easily fall into ill thoughts.

 

[Walking_Home]

Yes, I like those dresses…but you don’t understand me. I do not say all women should dress like this.
The thread was about modest fashion. So I gave my ideas on good modest fashion out of what I believe to be beautiful styles. My hope is that the original poster can benefit from that and some other suggestions I gave. I gave those suggestions because I grow tired of everyone thinking “modest” means wearing a burqua or dressing in amish clothes. I would hope for women to have fun and enjoy creating ways to dress. The fashion industry I see prevalent in pop culture is tired/boring.
You are making a judgement by telling me I have weak eyes. **I never said that. **All my points were based around women needing to accept that it is possible they could be leading a man to sin if they do not dress appropriate, whatever that standard may be. Do men need to avert there eyes, yes! An women need to take into account that what they wear just may not be such a good idea.

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You are right–you didn’t say you had weak eyes–but it kinda looked like you were in a way identifying with the young man with the problems who posted prior. Since you do understand–that men are also responsible to do their part–it would be very helpful–if you passed it along to those who men/young men/boys who are in need of learning this.

 

[Debora123]

Nonsense. In fact, by wearing less clothing in such conditions you’re putting yourself at an even greater risk of skin cancer by exposing your skin to UV rays. In such conditions it’s best to wear long sleeves, and clothing that covers the legs in lightweight breathable fabric in light colors that’s loose and promotes airflow.

Nonsense? No disrespect intended, but you’re coming off as being a bit of a know-it-all as someone who doesn’t live in these sort of conditions telling ME how to dress for the climate.

Trust me, people around here and in my old home in Brazil don’t walk around the streets in long sleeve shirts and long bottoms in the middle of summer as a way of dealing with the climate conditions lol. The person who did would actually probably get “crazy” stares and would probably look pretty disgusting wearing so much clothing that would then be drenched in sweat.

Fortunately there is a great thing called sunblock now a days and it keeps the more fair skinned people safe when used correctly. That way no one needs to be walking around in long sleeves and pants in 98 degree weather, thank goodness.

You know, I’m sure the FSSP priests in Florida aren’t out in skimpy clothing because it’s too hot. They still sport their black cassocks, with long sleeve shirts and pants underneath. I haven’t heard of any of them dying because they keep themselves more covered than what we’re asked to do.

First of all, like I said, tank tops and shorts aren’t considered “skimpy clothing” around here. (In fact, I personally don’t think they’re considered skimpy anywhere, but I won’t pretend to know what the culture is like where you’re from). They most certainly CAN be “skimpy” if gone overboard, but those are in the minority and don’t include the basic, everyday pair of shorts and tank.

Secondly, I’d have to say that I’ve never seen a man like you describe walking around outside around here during any time of the year at all except the short winters we have. So they either have some alternative clothes they can wear, or the poor men stay indoors in the air conditioning all day.

As for myself, I love the outdoors and the sunshine WAY too much to stay cooped up inside for 75% of the year.

Hopefully that helps you understand a different life style than yours a tad bit better.

 

[Debora123]

I think you are all being so rude and mean to Debora123. She does not want people to dress immorally, she is just in 2011. She is a married woman,deeply in love with her husband and yet you all have the nerve to criticize her. You all should look as good as she does.

Aww, thank you for coming to my defense Kathleen! :hug3:

I was very upset for while but am feeling better now. I’m sure every woman here is beautiful in their own way, and I’m confident that they either have or will have a great husband too.

God bless you, and thanks again.

 

[Debora123]

Oh, he didn’t put the entire burden on women, and stated that men need to work at not entertaining impure thoughts. He did say that it is our responsibility as women, not to dress immodestly as to not place temptation in front of the weak. He also said that we are to treat our bodies as the Temples, and that the reason we clothe ourselves is to cover what should be covered- our shoulders, entire thighs, and everything in between. I got rid of my knee length skirt after than Sunday because it didn’t cover my entire thighs when I sat.

The thing is, this is coming as a particular person’s opinion of what is modest (and maybe that’s how it is where you come from), and not from any sort of universal Church doctrine. As I’ve stated before many times, the Catechism itself states that there is “No Catholic Dress Code” and that modesty in clothing is dependent on culture. I think some people have a difficult time grasping this because they don’t think of other cultures outside their own.

My bridesmaids and I all wore strapless, shoulder revealing dresses to my wedding and it’s not like we got lectured or anything. Neither was there some sort of Catholic dress code to follow for the occasion.

By all means, dress in what makes you feel comfortable and attractive in whatever your body type may be. More power to you. But to put the same burden on others by making us all feel that we must dress the way YOU consider to be modest for your particular body type in your particular culture is simply out of line.

Just some advice to think about

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

Haha, now we’ve got Catholics saying Catholic women need to wear Muslim clothing… sigh

Now I’ve heard it all

Pretty much… but there are always surprises.

But I do have to agree with others. Male wiring hasn’t changed, and fashion keeps pushing the boundaries of modesty until the word itself is meaningless.

Maybe that’s their objective.

But how is all of this helping the OP? She’s just a kid who wants sources and tips for MODEST clothing, a definition we all used to know by heart.

 

[Walking_Home]

Pretty much… but there are always surprises.

But I do have to agree with others. Male wiring hasn’t changed, and fashion keeps pushing the boundaries of modesty until the word itself is meaningless.

Maybe that’s their objective.

But how is all of this helping the OP? She’s just a kid who wants sources and tips for MODEST clothing, a definition we all used to know by heart.

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The thing is—the definition of what is modest–varies from place to place. For example in India where women wear saris–with the short top that leaves the midriff exposed. I highly doubt that the Indian men go about lusting/drooling/lechering at the sight of the women’s exposed mid-section.

 

[Elven_Maid]

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You are right–you didn’t say you had weak eyes–but it kinda looked like you were in a way identifying with the young man with the problems who posted prior. Since you do understand–that men are also responsible to do their part–it would be very helpful–if you passed it along to those who men/young men/boys who are in need of learning this.

He does not have problems any more than any other young man. He is just more open and honest in the hope that we will help them. Obviously his request has been denied by most. I think it is a sad state of affairs when we can not even entertain the thought of dressing a little differently because our brothers asked us too in order to help them stay pure.

 

[Debora123]

Pretty much… but there are always surprises.

But I do have to agree with others. Male wiring hasn’t changed, and fashion keeps pushing the boundaries of modesty until the word itself is meaningless.

Maybe that’s their objective.

But how is all of this helping the OP? She’s just a kid who wants sources and tips for MODEST clothing, a definition we all used to know by heart.

Male wiring doesn’t change, but what triggers those “wires” certainly does, and with that, so does modesty. There is no universal definition/example of modesty.

At one point it used to be immodest for a lady to reveal her ankles, and doing so was very arousing to the guy who caught a glimpse of it.

We all know that’s definitely not that case anymore. (I’m glad we “pushed the boundaries” there)

Meanwhile we’ve got indigenous tribes whose women walk around completely topless and the men think absolutely nothing of it. It’s not an immodest thing in their culture.

 

[ShieldMaiden]

I would just like to point out that, though some standards of dress can vary due to different climates and cultures, some guidelines and standards always apply.

Our family lives in sunny CA and previously in Crete (the Island). Temperatures frequently can and did get up to the high 90’s and low 100’s, but we never felt or feel the need to wear tanktops. In the summer monthes we do tend be a little more casual in dress, usually switching from long skirts and shirts to capris and tees.
However, we keep to these guidelines (which are recommended by the Church for the 2th century, western woman).
Nothing, pants or skirt, higher than the knees: No necklines lower than two finger widths below the collarbone: Atleast some form of sleeve: and nothing overly sheer, clingy or tight.

 

[Debora123]

He does not have problems any more than any other young man. He is just more open and honest in the hope that we will help them. Obviously his request has been denied by most. I think it is a sad state of affairs when we can not even entertain the thought of dressing a little differently because our brothers asked us too in order to help them stay pure.

Honestly, I don’t think it would help them. If a man can’t handle seeing women wear clothes that are contemporary, decent, and in accordance to the times, culture, and the place, then he won’t be able to handle other temptations either. And as we’ve established, deprivation makes everything worse. (which is apparent in the ol’ ankle phenomenon)

Furthermore, I could be wrong but I suspect that he (along with many other young Christian men) may have a hard time distinguishing between physical/sexual attraction, and actual lust. I come to this conclusion mainly bc of his belief that it’s wrong to admire a girl’s legs, and only the face is ok.

Some men seem to think that simply admiring a beautiful feminine figure is lust… it is not! Lust goes further than that, but a lot of men are confused as to where that line is and end up being a little scrupulous in an attempt to follow the rules.

 

[Debora123]

I would just like to point out that, though some standards of dress can vary due to different climates and cultures, some guidelines and standards always apply.

Our family lives in sunny CA and previously in Crete (the Island). Temperatures frequently can and did get up to the high 90’s and low 100’s, but we never felt or feel the need to wear tanktops. In the summer monthes we do tend be a little more casual in dress, usually switching from long skirts and shirts to capris and tees.
However, we keep to these guidelines (which are recommended by the Church for the 2th century, western woman).
Nothing, pants or skirt, higher than the knees: No necklines lower than two finger widths below the collarbone: Atleast some form of sleeve: and nothing overly sheer, clingy or tight.

And that’s totally fine if you choose to do that.

However, all I’m saying here is I don’t think it’s fair to put that burden on someone else when it’s not a Church rule and when wearing a tank top and shorts isn’t considered scandalous in your culture. I personally couldn’t imagine walking around here in t shirts and capris in the middle of summer… nooooo thank you lol.

 

[Walking_Home]

He does not have problems any more than any other young man. He is just more open and honest in the hope that we will help them. Obviously his request has been denied by most. I think it is a sad state of affairs when we can not even entertain the thought of dressing a little differently because our brothers asked us too in order to help them stay pure.

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Think about it—did Nibenon come here to get help in overcoming his “weakness” ----or to be “coddled” in his “weakness” by people like you. Further more with the --“you can’t tell me to just look away” — he has lost any credibility to call out for women to cover up—since he himself is giving in to his own “weakness”. Of course --you and others like you will condone him in his “weakness”.

Originally Posted by Nibenon

Would it be smart if an alcoholic’s wife brought home bottles of whisky? Everyone involved needs to help.

Are you a hormonally charged male? If not, you can’t tell me to just look away. Easier said than done.

 

[Irish_Kathleen]

I never said she was going to Hell, but it is a possibility if we willfully neglect our responsibilities to dress modestly, not to put temptation in front of the weak, etc. If she’s complaining she must wear less clothing because it’s hot, and she thinks she will “die” if she doesn’t, it is wise to remember that Hell will be much hotter and that we should be willing to suffer in this life to be virtuous, rather than resort to lowering ourselves to sins of the flesh in this life for our mere comfort.

I said nothing that wasn’t preached from the pulpit by the FSSP priest at the parish I attended throughout Lent.

Of course I’m concerned about my soul, as should everyone else be. We live in a world that doesn’t even recognize sin anymore. I make frequent use of devotional confession as to continue to receive the sacramental graces in order to advance in holiness. If you’re not concerned about your soul, then I worry for you.

This coming from the person who insisted I had “issues” and “hang ups” . I live in 2011 too, and you know what? I shop at the same stores that other women my age shop at. The difference is I make a conscience effort to keep myself covered. I’m not overly attached to fashion trends and making sure I’m dressed to the 9’s. I dress to suit my figure, and modestly attractive. By modestly attractive, I mean not only that I’m properly covered, but also that I do not draw attention to myself or overly ornate. I keep my fashion simple and pleasant-looking. I don’t need to try hard, or go out of my way to look beautiful, because I am naturally beautiful, and I put more focus on being virtuous.

My goodness now you are being vain. Isn’t that a sin in your book? BTW some people are so-called properly covered because they have a lot to cover-up inside and out!

 

[ShieldMaiden]

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Think about it—did Nibenon come here to get help in overcoming his “weakness” ----or to be “coddled” in his “weakness” by people like you. Further more with the --“you can’t tell me to just look away” — he has lost any credibility to call out for women to cover up—since he himself is giving in to his own “weakness”. Of course --you and others like you will condone him in his “weakness”.

:nunchuk: I don’t appreciate you talking about our brothers in Christ that way.

Ok then, just to be fair, let’s let all our good Catholic men cease all courtesies and considerations towards women’s sensitivities. No more gentlemanly door holding and they can dangle chocolate in front of us all day if they want (and that’s just the tip of the iceberg)! Maybe you, Walking_Home, just haven’t met enough good, holy, pure men who are truly trying to live as God has destined, who honor the Blessed Mother with all their hearts, and who respect women as daughters of God and princesses of Heaven.

We, Christian ladies, are merely trying to spare them from the temptation that they will still have to face in the world, so that we can instead be a help to them. We should lift them up by the way we dress, in the same way that a holy man’s actions, even something as simple as opening a door for her, can lift up a girl. Don’t you get it! :banghead: We aren’t trying to “coddle” their “weakness”. We are their inspiration to fight that weakness! When a man sees a beautiful, fully covered women, he can look at her for her mind, her imagination and her soul as well as her beauty. He should look at her as something of great worth. Then, when he sees a girl dressed not so modestly, he should recognize that she to has great worth, but has chosen not to show it, and he will respect her and guard his purity by looking away!

We must, must, must remember that feminine beauty is meant to reflect the beauty of God, but we cannot do that if we dress in a way that is tempting, not genuinely good and beautiful. I do believe that the body is beautiful, but the soul comes first. It should be what we are most concerned about, and what men notice most about us. Also though, because the body is beautiful, it is all the more reason that it should be hidden at times.

I pray that no boy would ever have to look away from me for the sake of purity! EVER

And take a look at this lady, :nun2: I think she is beautiful, full coverage and all! Girls’ bodies are tabernacles of the Holy Spirit. We need to veil those tabernacles properly and beautifully.

But for the OP, this is the best resource for finding sources for modest clothing. rosamysticamodesty.org
Go to resources and order the Young Woman’s Modesty Resource Guide (and it only cost $3!).