Help for best friend

[ryecroft]

Butt out of her marriage and don’t take sides. If you can’t handle that limit your contact with her. You are the one in the wrong here, not the husband.

And for the record she is not owed a week away from her husband and children.

I wasn’t asking for opinions on whether to be involved or not - I am and my friend has asked me for help so I thought I might be able to get some good advice on how to help her get away for a while. Again my point here is how to help my friend get some much needed relief - the break that she’s basically begging for - If you can’t help with that then please don’t respond to this thread (kind of surprised as I’m often in agreement with you with your posts) - but seriously my friend has asked me to help her figure out a way to help her get a break - I gave some of the information I gave so that people might understand what is going on that’s giving us so much difficulty giving her a break. I didn’t start this thread as an opinion poll on 'should my best friend get a break on her own after 13 years of having NO time on her own) On the positive side, I asked my friend if she thought her sister might be able to come help with the kids so she could get a break as she doesn’t have any and is pretty well liked by the kids - so hopefully something will come of this and my friend will get the much needed break she deserves. You may not feel she deserves it but she does and I happen to agree with her.
God Bless
Rye

 

[BlueEyedLady]

I wasn’t asking for opinions on whether to be involved or not - I am and my friend has asked me for help so I thought I might be able to get some good advice on how to help her get away for a while. Again my point here is how to help my friend get some much needed relief - the break that she’s basically begging for - If you can’t help with that then please don’t respond to this thread (kind of surprised as I’m often in agreement with you with your posts) - but seriously my friend has asked me to help her figure out a way to help her get a break - I gave some of the information I gave so that people might understand what is going on that’s giving us so much difficulty giving her a break. I didn’t start this thread as an opinion poll on 'should my best friend get a break on her own after 13 years of having NO time on her own) On the positive side, I asked my friend if she thought her sister might be able to come help with the kids so she could get a break as she doesn’t have any and is pretty well liked by the kids - so hopefully something will come of this and my friend will get the much needed break she deserves. You may not feel she deserves it but she does and I happen to agree with her.
God Bless
Rye

She shouldn’t be begging you for a break, she should be talking to her husband. By encouraging her to come to you for this you are helping her undermine and damage her marriage, and real friends don’t do that.

 

[EasterJoy]

Acutally, I mentioned before - probably should have sooner - that my husband and I (occaisionally just me) will go up and take the kids for a week and they go away. Sometimes it’s been longer sometimes shorter - really depending on what was going on. We’ve done this many times since they had kids - usually at least once a year. Sometimes we’ll go up and we’ll take the kids for an afternoon. So it’s not that we haven’t been helping with the marriage - as the Auntie/Uncle/God Parents - we believe it’s just as important to the kids to have time with us as it is for my friend and her husband to go off and have some time together. I will say though that the last 3 times we’ve put this forward we’ve been told that he doesn’t have time to take off. We did go up for a celebration with one of the kids and we took the kids for two days/nights (they get a huge kick out of staying at a hotel and getting room service -it’s just something different) - my friend was kind of upset because the only thing they really did together was watch a movie. I know she’s ready to chuck his gaming console in the trash but she told me she fears if she did he’d get really mad and then just go out and buy another one which would be a waste of money.
God Bless
Rye

A friend to whom you can vent about the daily frustrations of your life, one who will simply listen and then later acts as if she never heard you say a bad word about anybody, is worth her weight in gold.

This sounds much more serious than a normal daily frustration of married life. Encourage your friend to get a counsellor to help her communicate her frustration and unhappiness to her husband. When eyebrows were raised because Bl. John Paul II decided to have an exercise pool put in at his summer residence, he joked that it was “cheaper than another conclave”. Marriage counselling carries a far lower price than divorce or a life of exhaustion, resentment and increasing emotional distance from one’s spouse.

IOW, fixing this is above your pay grade, but encouraging your friend to find what she needs to address her problem isn’t. Try that.

Again, many libraries have the John Gottman books. Page through them yourself before you give one to her. I’ve liked all the ones I’ve read, but I’ve heard from others that some of the books seem to have a slant against men. That would go over like a lead balloon in this case.

 

[EasterJoy]

She shouldn’t be begging you for a break, she should be talking to her husband. By encouraging her to come to you for this you are helping her undermine and damage her marriage, and real friends don’t do that.

The woman has not withheld her feelings from her husband. She’s talking to her friend because she’s frustrated over not being listened to when she has talked to her husband.

It isn’t for the friend to decide a course of action, but her willingness to listen is very valuable to the marriage. Deciding what to do with those feelings is made much easier if one can use a discrete and level-headed friend as a sounding board.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

The woman has not withheld her feelings from her husband. She’s talking to her friend because she’s frustrated over not being listened to when she has talked to her husband.

It isn’t for the friend to decide a course of action, but her willingness to listen is very valuable to the marriage. Deciding what to do with those feelings is made much easier if one can use a discrete and level-headed friend as a sounding board.

I think you’re missing something here. I’ve been in a friendship where basically all we did was share our discontent with our husbands. The complaining we did, the detraction of our husbands, the moaning was legendary! “Oh, that’s TERRIBLE! You shouldn’t put up with THAT,” etc. etc. etc. The “she DESERVES this” attitude of the OP reminds me so much of this. What Ryecroft is doing is supporting her friend’s DISCONTENT. If there is a problem in the marriage, her friend and her husband need to work on it. How would her husband feel if he knew they were discussing the marriage and deciding what needs to happen next?

Ryecroft may think she is supporting her friend, but this is how marriages are destroyed. “Yes, you are right, YOU DESERVE BETTER.” If she can’t find a way to support their marriage, without siding with her friend, she should limit contact.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

I think you’re missing something here. I’ve been in a friendship where basically all we did was share our discontent with our husbands. The complaining we did, the detraction of our husbands, the moaning was legendary! “Oh, that’s TERRIBLE! You shouldn’t put up with THAT,” etc. etc. etc. The “she DESERVES this” attitude of the OP reminds me so much of this. What Ryecroft is doing is supporting her friend’s DISCONTENT. If there is a problem in the marriage, her friend and her husband need to work on it. How would her husband feel if he knew they were discussing the marriage and deciding what needs to happen next?

Ryecroft may think she is supporting her friend, but this is how marriages are destroyed. “Yes, you are right, YOU DESERVE BETTER.” If she can’t find a way to support their marriage, without siding with her friend, she should limit contact.

 

[ryecroft]

She shouldn’t be begging you for a break, she should be talking to her husband. By encouraging her to come to you for this you are helping her undermine and damage her marriage, and real friends don’t do that.

Maybe I didn’t make this clear- she has asked - begged and even written an email explaining that she needs a break - and needs more than a couple of hours to herself soon. My husband an I will go to help them out as much as we can because we love our God Children and love our friends - but when my friend tells me that when she’s mentioned getting a babysitter that his response is one of :we don’t need to spend the money when you could just have the kids with you -
I am supporting my friend and as I mentioned multiple times before we have supported their marriage by giving them breaks so they could be on their own. That’s not undermining nor is supporting my friend when she’s calling asking for help -
Again, I’m asking for help with ways to help her get a break. I would gladly do it on my own or with my husband but she doesn’t want the break on her own and as I also mentioned the last time we gave them a two day/night break it wound up being stressful for her because it wasn’t having time with her husband it was her husband sitting on the computer for 8 hours - but they did get to watch a movie together.

Please I need constructive help for her on how to get her break.
God Bless
Rye

 

[ryecroft]

Ryecroft may think she is supporting her friend, but this is how marriages are destroyed. “Yes, you are right, YOU DESERVE BETTER.” If she can’t find a way to support their marriage, without siding with her friend, she should limit contact.

I usually have certain people blocked because I don’t find any of their comments useful to me and sometimes find them down right mean but since this was quoted, I will say something -
Please show me where I have said “YOU DESERVE BETTER” - I have NEVER EVER told her she deserved better than her husband - I have said she DESERVES A BREAK.
And he knows we dicuss EVERYTHING including him.
God Bless
Rye

 

[ryecroft]

the woman has not withheld her feelings from her husband. She’s talking to her friend because she’s frustrated over not being listened to when she has talked to her husband.

It isn’t for the friend to decide a course of action, but her willingness to listen is very valuable to the marriage. Deciding what to do with those feelings is made much easier if one can use a discrete and level-headed friend as a sounding board.

thank you!

 

[catharina]

Please show me where I have said “YOU DESERVE BETTER” - I have NEVER EVER told her she deserved better than her husband - I have said she DESERVES A BREAK.
And he knows we dicuss EVERYTHING including him.
God Bless
Rye

Simply, this is not your problem.
You and friend are now ADULTS.
She needs to grow some maturity so she can fend
for herself, not depend on the sympathy of friends.

 

[ryecroft]

Simply, this is not your problem.
You and friend are now ADULTS.
She needs to grow some maturity so she can fend
for herself, not depend on the sympathy of friends.

No offense intented but that really doesn’t help my friend out one bit. I think she’s quite mature - she has stayed married when many of her friends have gotten divorced over less - I’ve encouraged her to get counseling and if she feels she needs them to take breaks. I’m glad she has me to turn to and she tells me she’s glad she has me to turn to as well - especially when she does bring these things up to her husband and is then told ‘it’s your job’ -
Again was hoping for help to get my friend a break. Sorry if you don’t agree she needs one but she believes she desperately needs one - and I’m going to go with the opinion of the woman I’ve known since I was 12, who is actually in the situation and has the husband and 4 kids. I’m amazed how many seem to be trying to attack a woman who obviously feels she needs a break. And again, we have gone up for at lest 12 visits to help them both have breaks so they could strengthen their marriage and get away and remember what brought them together in the first place. I’ll listen to the criticism of someone who has 4 kids and hasn’t had a day off on her own for 13 years.

And by the way , she has never once asked for sympathy - she’s asked for me to listen and when she asks for advice I give it - this time she asked for help. I think any one who is mature enough to know that they need help - to know that they need a break deserves that help. I have seen in the news and I have seen friends who have run themselves into the ground trying to be a good mother and wife - who don’t take time for themselves or take a well earned break - and I’ve got to tell you those mothers that I know who take time for themselves and to take breaks every couple of years do a lot better than those that never get one. I’m greatful my mom took breaks - she came back a lot more relaxed and yes even at times she seemed happier and better able to deal with my siblings and myself.
God Bless
Rye

 

[Trishie]

And again, we have gone up for at lest 12 visits to help them both have breaks

Dear Rye,

You are very generous.
Your friend is very lucky to have so much support, with the times you have had the children. I hope her sister can in fact help.
Most mother I’ve known didn’t have such support.

I myself had three boys 19 and 17 months apart and only twice in their entire childhood did I have some help.
My mother had died when I was a teen, my family were many hundreds of miles away, my parents-in-law minded the boys so we could see a movie they wanted us to see and one other time only.
My sisters had the same experiences, all of us lived hundreds of miles from each other, because of our husband’s work choices.

We moved many times because of my husband’s work so I never got to make friends. I had grown up nearly 2000 miles from where we lived when my children were young.

My husband was very old-fashioned and left all household and children chores to me. However, I loved my sons dearly, and my reward is that though they are in their forties and two live over a thousand miles away, they contact me very regularly and keep me up with their news.

I found recreation in making beautiful gardens wherever we lived (only to have to leave them when we moved) and when I had time, I’d read a chapter or two, and I also could sometimes draw and paint.

Is it possible for your very dear friend to find some recreation in a little reading, or a little gardening.
My boys would have their little gardens, so we could share that. My middle son who has several teenagers and an intense working life, finds recreation now in nurturing a beautiful garden in his spare time, such as it is!

Can your fiend find some quiet rewarding activity that will refresh her?
**
When we depend on others to rescue us, the benefit is very short-lived**.

Next day we’re back deep in our reality of diapers and dishes and the million and one needs of our children and husband and household.
Like yesterdays dinner, it’s gone and in no time we’re hungry again!
Do you see what I mean, Rye?

We also need to find something ourselves, in our own real worlds, to recreate ourselves.

Warm regards, Trishie

 

[TheRealJuliane]

My opinion aside…

Do you think your friend might have post-partum depression? With a very young baby and a stressful life, and the way you say is telling you that she MUST have a break, I wonder if she really needs medical help?

 

[catharina]

Dear Rye,

Can your fiend find some quiet rewarding activity that will refresh her?
**
When we depend on others to rescue us, the benefit is very short-lived**.

Next day we’re back deep in our reality of diapers and dishes and the million and one needs of our children and husband and household.
Like yesterdays dinner, it’s gone and in no time we’re hungry again!
Do you see what I mean, Rye?

We also need to find something ourselves, in our own real worlds, to recreate ourselves.

Warm regards, Trishie

My opinion aside…

Do you think your friend might have post-partum depression? With a very young baby and a stressful life, and the way you say is telling you that she MUST have a break, I wonder if she really needs medical help?

Both posts? Very good.
Also I haven’t noticed anyone saying your friend
does not need a break. Yes, she needs a break.

 

[cmscms]

OK, here is my opinion.

This taking time to be with you probably will not happen because I suspect deep down, the husband knows how hard you are trying to give your friend a break and he is resenting your meddling.

So… to actually help your friend. It sounds to me like she has boundary issues. If her oldest is 13, I am sure she could have a routine where there is 45 minutes quiet time every day in the house and the older kids take turns watching the baby, or it could be when the baby is taking a nap. This is her 45 minutes a day to have a break, even if it is just sitting by herself with a cup ot tea.

Second, she needs to start making her husband feel like he is part of the solution (not you). She could say to him, ‘I realize you believe in more traditional roles, but I really need your support at times. I was wondering if you could please change a diaper once a day’. Then, when he does it, as hard as it might be, she does not critice how bad he did it (even if he put the thing on backwards), she just bits her tongue and says 'Thank you, I feel so much better knowing you are willing to help. The kid will make a mess with a diaper on backwards but the kid will survive. Then she shows it to her husband and says ‘Oh my, I wonder if perhaps we got a ripped diaper’ And then say ‘oh no it was on backwards. Who would have though that was so important’. That way hubby learns without being made to feel incompetent.

Slow little steps will help her. I know it is hard when she is at the end of the rope, but if her husband is like most men I know, a discontent attitude in a wife makes a husband more stuborn

CM

 

[catharina]

OK, here is my opinion.

This taking time to be with you probably will not happen because I suspect deep down, the husband knows how hard you are trying to give your friend a break and he is resenting your meddling.

So… to actually help your friend. It sounds to me like she has boundary issues. If her oldest is 13, I am sure she could have a routine where there is 45 minutes quiet time every day in the house and the older kids take turns watching the baby, or it could be when the baby is taking a nap. This is her 45 minutes a day to have a break, even if it is just sitting by herself with a cup ot tea.

Second, she needs to start making her husband feel like he is part of the solution (not you). She could say to him, ‘I realize you believe in more traditional roles, but I really need your support at times. I was wondering if you could please change a diaper once a day’. Then, when he does it, as hard as it might be, she does not critice how bad he did it (even if he put the thing on backwards), she just bits her tongue and says 'Thank you, I feel so much better knowing you are willing to help. The kid will make a mess with a diaper on backwards but the kid will survive. Then she shows it to her husband and says ‘Oh my, I wonder if perhaps we got a ripped diaper’ And then say ‘oh no it was on backwards. Who would have though that was so important’. That way hubby learns without being made to feel incompetent.

Slow little steps will help her. I know it is hard when she is at the end of the rope, but if her husband is like most men I know, a discontent attitude in a wife makes a husband more stuborn

CM

Perfect.
I applaud you.

 

[faithfully]

Rye, I completely hear where you are coming from.

Your friend sounds very much like mine. Her husband gives her no breaks.

I won’t share their details.

The thing is, there truly isn’t anything you can do. It’s good to be supportive. I agree that you shouldn’t cater to any degrading of him. Continue to encourage her to find solutions. She may need a therapist to do this.

I will tell you, I’ve nearly lost my dearest friend since childhood. Her husband is basically holding her hostage. Too many pesonal details. We used to talk weekly, now maybe 2 times a year. She just can’t find time for her friendships. She has a lot to do to keep up with being a married single mom.

I recently saw her. She’s truly a shadow of the person I used to know. She clearly doesn’t eat to stay fit for DH. Her nutrition is so bad, her skin is utterly shocking. She just informed me of something she now does at home to destress, and I’m actually quite scared for her. She’s on a very slippery slope. I’m still realing from all the changes myself.

I truly understand your concern. I have never encouraged her to leave him, or that she deserves better. But I’d stand by her side if she left, and she does infact deserve better. He has pulled some stunts that are not, and never will be acceptable. His inablity to handle his own children is just the tip, the very very tip of the iceberg.

She wants to stay. Which means it’s his way or the highway. Again, your friend really needs to find a therapist. And either she will learn how to get what she needs, or she leaves of her own accord. You don’t ever want to be (not that it seems you would) the reason she decided to leave her husband.

I will say, my DH did have a short period of insanity after our children were born. We had a little discussion about how I was quite capable of functioning on my own with his paycheck if he’d like to make it official. I was hormonal! But he realized how important it was for him to be more than a paycheck. A paycheck doesn’t need to live with you making extra mess.

 

[EasterJoy]

I think you’re missing something here. I’ve been in a friendship where basically all we did was share our discontent with our husbands. The complaining we did, the detraction of our husbands, the moaning was legendary! “Oh, that’s TERRIBLE! You shouldn’t put up with THAT,” etc. etc. etc. The “she DESERVES this” attitude of the OP reminds me so much of this. What Ryecroft is doing is supporting her friend’s DISCONTENT. If there is a problem in the marriage, her friend and her husband need to work on it. How would her husband feel if he knew they were discussing the marriage and deciding what needs to happen next?

Ryecroft may think she is supporting her friend, but this is how marriages are destroyed. “Yes, you are right, YOU DESERVE BETTER.” If she can’t find a way to support their marriage, without siding with her friend, she should limit contact.

This is very important distinction to make! A good listener is not necessarily somebody who validates your every opinion as being the whole story. A good listener validates what you’re saying as a reflection of what you feel. They also help you to see that it is up to you to decide to do with what you feel: that it is your responsibility to find the “serenity to accept what you cannot change and have the courage to change what you can” and that you’re competent to find “the wisdom to know the difference.”

It is a very good habit to respond to friends who come to you with problems as if the persons they are discussing or venting about are listening in. This is true three times over when it is a friend sounding off about his or her spouse!! Otherwise, when something negative you say gets back to the other spouse, and then the couple later makes up, the aggrieved spouse will be forgiven, and then they’ll both be peeved at you together!

Your friends don’t usually need you to help them get mad at their spouses. They need you to help themselves come to a good understanding of their own feelings, get a reasonable idea of what the big picture might be, and come up with some ideas of what different ways they might want to proceed. You don’t tell them what they ought to think; you help them figure out what they think.

Again: A good friend is a friend of the marriage. Even when the marriage is toxic, the people in the marriage need to be the ones reaching that conclusion and acting on it.

 

[EasterJoy]

‘oh no it was on backwards. Who would have though that was so important’. That way hubby learns without being made to feel incompetent.

“Who would have thought that was so important?” Be careful, or hubby is going to think you’re being sarcastic!

Maybe “everyone makes mistakes once in awhile, that’s why kids are made waterproof and bouncy. Don’t worry about it. Any parenting they walk away from is good parenting.” (This is a variation of the pilots’ saying: “Any landing you walk away from is a good one.”)

 

[faithfully]

I had to laugh about the backward diaper. We did that on purpose! When they figured out the tapes.

When they figured out backing up to each other for help out of the diapers, then we used every man’s first go to fix it tool: Duct Tape!

I’m all about poop staying in a diaper. I do not care how!