HELP! I don't want to lose Heaven if its all true

[Catholic29]

Lux_et_veritas:

My heart bleeds with empathy for the pain you suffer right now. Right after I got serious about my faith, I experienced all kinds of doubts and this lasted for months. When a sudden doubt flashed into my mind about the existence of God, it was shivering, frightening hell on earth.

I went to my confessor, who told me this is very normal when we are growing spiritually and while faith is a virtue, it is also something we must practice. How do we practice it?

Well, there is one clue in your words. That is, you seem to be seeking understanding before you will accept it all as true. My dear friend, if you wait to believe in the Trinity until you can understand it, you will never believe. That is why it is a mystery.

I found after much reflection that some of my doubts were stemming from poor catechesis and a poor grasp of scripture. Growing up in the 70’s I had lousy catechism and was raised with the “I’m ok, your ok” mentality. There was no theology or true catechesis to create the foundation needed. Instead, I had a foundation built on sand. Once I realized that I had been very poorly catechized, I then figured my next move was to get myself catechized. But what happens when I stumble on something that is hard to understand or difficult to accept?

Some people will stop right there and form their own opinion based on their conscience. But conscience must be properly formed and when a book doesn’t do it, then we must find a well-formed priest. A confessor’s job is not only to absolve sin, but to help us form our conscience so frequent confession is one first step, along with frequent Mass beyond Sundays. There is a notion that “I must understand before I can follow this particular stand the church has taken”. This is backwards and it is something I gave up, all in faith and love for God. I developed a new attitude.

I promised God I would follow Catholic teaching, even on things that were difficult to follow, and asked him to give me the gift of understanding when I needed it. Many times I would struggle with something and I would ask him for help. But I would then leave it in His hands for Him to decide when He wanted to give me the understanding, not when I wanted it. I put my trust in His judgement in that regard.

I remember struggling hard with something and finally remembering that I needed to ask Him for help. It came, the very next day, as I stood in a crowded grocery store line - the light bulb went on big time. I had such an intimate grasp of the subject and it was sudden. I then knew what I had to research and would later find validation for what was infused in me that day and it was found in Catholic teaching. This has happened many, many times.

You are in my prayers. Practice the faith, while praying for the virtue. A good time to ask for faith is right before the Eucharistic Prayer. Ask the Blessed Mother to help you and then trust her to follow through in God’s time, not yours.

Thank you for your encouragment and insights, and the time for your help. I admire people like you who submit to a higher purpose and will. If that doesn’t demonstrate humility and saintliness I don’t know what does.

The Church teaches that people have free will to choose to accept or leave the faith and there is no coersion involved. Thats what I admire about Christianity and Catholicism in particular. Nobody has a gun to your back or are threatened with damnation if one doesn’t attend Mass or follow a certain teaching, though the Church does with charity make it clear there are consquences to be had if one doesn’t. I just wish folks like Libero could grasp this concept.

Faith is naturally a hard path for me to follow, as I have had many tough breaks in life. More than you could know in fact. And yes, I am and have been suffering in many ways, though mostly mental. Often its a challange for me to maintain any sense of sanity, and nervous breakdowns are often not far away. It sometimes comes to the point where I have to bail out of the situation I am in before I loose it totally. So yes, I think there is something psychological going on with me as well, maybe even a chemical imbalance in my brain that is causing my depression… But it could just as well be oppression from the evil one as well.

Though I will research and pursue other paths of help for me, both in my parish as well as medically. And thank you along with everyone else for taking a concern for me, that is what I think of being a true Christian. I can’t tell you how grateful I am for it, and thank you for your prayers.

God bless,

Catholic29

 

[Libero]

Catholic29:

This dude’s post is ignored, as I am quite aware of his track record on this forum.

I have a good general idea of what his agenda here is. And that is basically to steer others away from orthodox Catholicism through muddying the waters, albeit I have no clue what his precise goals or ideology are. Whatever they are, he will probably never let anyone else on this forum know.

In any case I wasn’t hooked by him.:nope:

Truly pathetic.

Also, if my post is ignored, why are you commenting on it?

 

[Lux_et_veritas]

Catholic29:

Thank you for your encouragment and insights, and the time for your help. I admire people like you who submit to a higher purpose and will. If that doesn’t demonstrate humility and saintliness I don’t know what does.

The Church teaches that people have free will to choose to accept or leave the faith and there is no coersion involved. Thats what I admire about Christianity and Catholicism in particular. Nobody has a gun to your back or are threatened with damnation if one doesn’t attend Mass or follow a certain teaching, though the Church does with charity make it clear there are consquences to be had if one doesn’t. I just wish folks like Libero could grasp this concept.

Faith is naturally a hard path for me to follow, as I have had many tough breaks in life. More than you could know in fact. And yes, I am and have been suffering in many ways, though mostly mental. Often its a challange for me to maintain any sense of sanity, and nervous breakdowns are often not far away. It sometimes comes to the point where I have to bail out of the situation I am in before I loose it totally. So yes, I think there is something psychological going on with me as well, maybe even a chemical imbalance in my brain that is causing my depression… But it could just as well be oppression from the evil one as well.

Though I will research and pursue other paths of help for me, both in my parish as well as medically. And thank you along with everyone else for taking a concern for me, that is what I think of being a true Christian. I can’t tell you how grateful I am for it, and thank you for your prayers.

God bless,

Catholic29

Catholic29,

It sounds like you are carrying an extraordinary cross right now, if you suffer from any kind of mental or emotional difficulties. Sometimes they are transitory and will pass, but we often need help getting through them.

Please consider exploring CatholicTherapists.com for a solid Catholic therapist who can help you carry that cross right now. These are therapists who are loyal to the Magisterium - such a rare combination - pyschology and catholicism done right. Click “Find a therapist” and choose your state. See if there is someone near you. At least give them a call, even if you think you can’t afford it. Maybe you can find a support group for your particular burden at this time.

God Bless - you are in my prayers. Don’t forget to put your pain and burden’s on the shoulder’s of the Lord, and most especially your worries. He’s there to carry the load, but sometimes we just don’t think to ask Him.

I went through a difficult period several years ago where people were dropping like flies - family members, young friends, co-workers. Everywhere I turned for a two year period, people close to me were dying and lots of it was cancer, which is often difficult to deal with. It’s at these times that I tried to place my full trust in God and asked him to help me carry that which seemed so unbearable. I would tell him, “Lord, help me to carry this cross. I put all of my concerns, worries and pains on your shoulders and pray that you give me the grace to shoulder them myself very soon”.

You are in my prayers.

 

[estesbob]

coyote:

This is a mischaracterization of my positon. I have NO=ZERO interest in seeing the Church change.

BTW, I took MY CATHOLIC faith pretty darn seriously too. But, you couldn’t know that. I am not a victim, I am disappointed, discouraged, disallusioned and disgusted. Faith can not be forced. It can be lost.

I guess I should be surprised that “people here” would be “shocked” to find that a person can actually come to doubt. But I’m not, I have come to expect it. This is where the disappointment, discouragment, dismay and disgust come from.

How is MY doubt such a problem for you that you feel the need to make me be wrong ?

I’m sorry I mischaracterized your position. I take my faith seriously to and sometimes in my zeal to defend it come across a little too harshly. I went through a five-year period where I to was disappointed discouraged disallusioned and disgusted with our faith. I even flirted with joining the Episcopal Church.

My solution was prayer and studying the basis for the teachings of the Church . Even though I was mad at God I discovered with great joy that he was not mad at me. I was also pleased to see that even though I abandoned my church my church and never abandoned me.

I always take heart the strophe from Psalm 37:

The Lord makes straight the path of the one he loves,
though you may stumble you will never fall,
for he holds you by the hand

 

[estesbob]

Catholic29:

This dude’s post is ignored, as I am quite aware of his track record on this forum.

I have a good general idea of what his agenda here is. And that is basically to steer others away from orthodox Catholicism through muddying the waters, albeit I have no clue what his precise goals or ideology are. Whatever they are, he will probably never let anyone else on this forum know.

In any case I wasn’t hooked by him.:nope:

I think you’re a little too harsh on Libero. I’m not sure he has an agenda. He is, like you, searching. My main objections to his post was stateing one could not get help in these forums. I have learned a lot since signing on CA and participating in it has strengthened my faith considerably.

 

[Catholic29]

melbourne_guy:

I am also having a crisis of faith, I am asking god for something very important and he is not answering. It makes me question my religion, ill never convert to another religion because i do feel that from historical evidence catholicism is the right one. If i am going to convert it would be to atheism, although i could never be 100% atheist as whenever i look up at the stars at night i know there has to be something out there. When i need to increase my faith i gaze at the dark galaxy in the sky and review some unanswered theological questions like

1. If a vaccuum is a space without air, light, or pretty much anything then does it really exist?

2)if the universe was once a vaccuum (nothing at all,empty space) then who created the empty space?

1. If there was no god at all, who could have created the first atom?

Im not sure if your understanding what im trying to say, but in a nut shell i strenghthen my faith by asking myself questions that cant possibly be answered until i die.

I also agree if any form of Christianity is correct, then Catholicism (or Eastern Orthodoxy) is the right one due to the historical evidence. But unfortunately most never care to examine it. If I were to ever leave the Church, it would also be for atheism.

Though you bring up some very good points which help to allay my doubt and rekindle faith and hope, for that I thank you.

 

[Didi]

Catholic29:

I also feel some external force could be being trying to cheat me out of my salvation, by putting questions and doubts into my head as well as a continual throbbing depression that has been gradually wearing my strength and will down.

Catholic29 –

I am so sorry for your pain. I, too, have gone through spiritual dryness and doubts. Often it is at a time when I am preparing to do something for God (speak at a retreat, meet with a friend to encourage them, visit someone who is ill, etc.)

Sometimes I get these nagging thoughts like “Who do you think you are, speaking about prayer? You’re no expert. You haven’t even prayed much this week. What a hypocrite.”

I spoke with my priest about these negative feelings, and he told me that these type of nagging thoughts are not from God. Our Lord doesn’t speak to His children in this manner. He doesn’t tear us down, He builds us up.

So when we get these thoughts, they could indeed be from our spiritual enemy who is trying to keep us from God and doing His work on earth.

This just happened to me this past week when I was to speak at our parish about prayer. The above thoughts kept needling me, and I had not felt well all week. I almost canceled. Even as we were driving to Church I thought “Why in the world did I say I would do this?”

After I arrived and set up my materials, I went to pray before Jesus in the Tabernacle. I said “Lord, I am not feeling strong tonight, not physically, emotionally or spiritually. Yet You said You can use us just as we are. Well, here I am, and I need your strength in my weakness.”

The presentation went very well. Another lesson for me in surrender to God and in trusting Him.

Please go before Jesus in the Tabernacle or at Eucharistic Adoration. Pour your heart out to Him. He will listen and in His own time and in His own way, He will answer you.

I pray tonight for God’s peace, mercy and grace to shower down upon you, my friend.

You are not alone.

 

[Catholic29]

Lux_et_veritas:

Catholic29,

It sounds like you are carrying an extraordinary cross right now, if you suffer from any kind of mental or emotional difficulties. Sometimes they are transitory and will pass, but we often need help getting through them.

Please consider exploring CatholicTherapists.com for a solid Catholic therapist who can help you carry that cross right now. These are therapists who are loyal to the Magisterium - such a rare combination - pyschology and catholicism done right. Click “Find a therapist” and choose your state. See if there is someone near you. At least give them a call, even if you think you can’t afford it. Maybe you can find a support group for your particular burden at this time.

God Bless - you are in my prayers. Don’t forget to put your pain and burden’s on the shoulder’s of the Lord, and most especially your worries. He’s there to carry the load, but sometimes we just don’t think to ask Him.

I went through a difficult period several years ago where people were dropping like flies - family members, young friends, co-workers. Everywhere I turned for a two year period, people close to me were dying and lots of it was cancer, which is often difficult to deal with. It’s at these times that I tried to place my full trust in God and asked him to help me carry that which seemed so unbearable. I would tell him, “Lord, help me to carry this cross. I put all of my concerns, worries and pains on your shoulders and pray that you give me the grace to shoulder them myself very soon”.

You are in my prayers.

What I can hardly fathom is if life is this hard to deal with, which it often is, I cannot imagine what hell is like. And my life has indeed been a hard slog, as I was born with a mental disability which makes relating with people and communication (speaking) difficult. Because of this I found it extremely difficult to make friends and keep them, much less for relationships and dating. Now I pretty much don’t have any friends who are at or near my age, as they have all moved on. Needless to say this has created much saddness, loneliness and bitterness in my life. And prayer and offer up this cross has to me not seemed to help.

Though I know God’s time is not my time, I also know I am not getting any younger either. And I desire to marry a woman one day and be able to spend many quality years with her. And even if I had a clue where to find her, I am afraid I would just clam up out of fear of rejection. And all the terrible things I see, hear and read about happening in the world only breaks my heart even further. All of the crimes, injustices and wars wear on my morale as well. It appears like there is little hope, particularily when I see strife between religions.

Thank you for the link to the Catholic Therapists site. But its too bad it only lists 3 orthodox Catholic psychologists in my whole state, and I live far away from them. My current councilor is a fallen away Catholic who was batized and confirmed in the Church, but is loaded with misconceptions with no apparent hope of him reconciling. Years ago his Catholicism was nothing more than an external ritual, and never actualy internalized anything he did in the Church, nor had any idea which sacrament did what for you. He now has a loose belief in a “supreme being”, and doesn’t believe there is such things as sin or hell, yet is very open to the idea of reincarnation. So it would be nice to be able to talk with someone who knows how people think and feel, and actually believes what the Church teaches at the same time, as rare as that combination is.

Thank you for your prayers,

God Bless

Catholic29

 

[Catholic29]

Didi:

Catholic29 –

I am so sorry for your pain. I, too, have gone through spiritual dryness and doubts. Often it is at a time when I am preparing to do something for God (speak at a retreat, meet with a friend to encourage them, visit someone who is ill, etc.)

Sometimes I get these nagging thoughts like “Who do you think you are, speaking about prayer? You’re no expert. You haven’t even prayed much this week. What a hypocrite.”

I spoke with my priest about these negative feelings, and he told me that these type of nagging thoughts are not from God. Our Lord doesn’t speak to His children in this manner. He doesn’t tear us down, He builds us up.

So when we get these thoughts, they could indeed be from our spiritual enemy who is trying to keep us from God and doing His work on earth.

This just happened to me this past week when I was to speak at our parish about prayer. The above thoughts kept needling me, and I had not felt well all week. I almost canceled. Even as we were driving to Church I thought “Why in the world did I say I would do this?”

After I arrived and set up my materials, I went to pray before Jesus in the Tabernacle. I said “Lord, I am not feeling strong tonight, not physically, emotionally or spiritually. Yet You said You can use us just as we are. Well, here I am, and I need your strength in my weakness.”

The presentation went very well. Another lesson for me in surrender to God and in trusting Him.

Please go before Jesus in the Tabernacle or at Eucharistic Adoration. Pour your heart out to Him. He will listen and in His own time and in His own way, He will answer you.

I pray tonight for God’s peace, mercy and grace to shower down upon you, my friend.

You are not alone.

Thank you Didi,

I will take my sufferings with me to Adoration and pour them out before Jesus in the Tabernacle. I know we are all so weak, and depend on God for all our strength.

Please pray for me though, as my life has been difficult.

Catholic29

 

[Pauli]

It sounds like your Counselor is more in need of prayers than you are.

Is there any Saint you feel drawn towards? If so, in your own words talk to this saint, all about the problem, your worries and fears.

Then go before the Blessed Sacrament, and don’t say anything at all. Just stay there in the quiet awhile. Shut down thoughts about your problems if they come.

 

[johnben]

I will pray for you. But don’t lose hope because Jesus will come.

 

[epower]

I would suggest reading Thomas Merton’s Seven Story Mountain.
It is the autobiography of his travel in faith from being an atheist … to being a monk in a monastery. It is really a great read.

 

[Catholic29]

Pauli:

It sounds like your Counselor is more in need of prayers than you are.

Is there any Saint you feel drawn towards? If so, in your own words talk to this saint, all about the problem, your worries and fears.

Then go before the Blessed Sacrament, and don’t say anything at all. Just stay there in the quiet awhile. Shut down thoughts about your problems if they come.

Well for one thing, my Counselor has said to me that one place where he caught alot of Z’s was in catechism class. So he probably was never Catholic to begin with even though he went through all the physical motions. Sad part is I’m sure that for many years he was recieving Jesus in holy communion, yet never realized it.

Thing is I have for incountable times gone before the Blessed Sacrament with all my problems, fears and worries. And I have emptied my head of thoughts, and waite for Jesus to place reassurance into my mind, and guess what I am still waiting.

I have to admit it is extrememly frustrating appealing every day to a God who is evidently mute, much less visable. It remains to be seen if I can persevere in my faith before I die, or if God makes his reality known to me before then.

 

[Lux_et_veritas]

Catholic29:

Thank you for the link to the Catholic Therapists site. But its too bad it only lists 3 orthodox Catholic psychologists in my whole state, and I live far away from them. My current councilor is a fallen away Catholic who was batized and confirmed in the Church, but is loaded with misconceptions with no apparent hope of him reconciling. Years ago his Catholicism was nothing more than an external ritual, and never actualy internalized anything he did in the Church, nor had any idea which sacrament did what for you. He now has a loose belief in a “supreme being”, and doesn’t believe there is such things as sin or hell, yet is very open to the idea of reincarnation. So it would be nice to be able to talk with someone who knows how people think and feel, and actually believes what the Church teaches at the same time, as rare as that combination is.

Thank you for your prayers,

God Bless

Catholic29

I would use the “Contact Us” form on Catholic Therapists website and explain your situation. Ask if there is any way an arrangement can be made for phone or email consultation. You won’t know if you don’t try. If you can afford to pay them, let them know you are not looking for a freebie, but simply cannot make the commute and you need solid Catholic help.

 

[AlanFromWichita]

Catholic29:

This is compounded by an intelectual catch-22 I am struggling with right now, and I that is I cannot prove Christianity is true, nor can I prove it is not true. I would personally give my life to know which is right, but answers are not forthcoming from anywhere and it is tearing my soul apart. Its like I am suffering the spiritual torments of Hell right now.:crying:

One way that I was able to navigate this particular issue was to convince myself that the Spirit Himself (or itself if you struggle with the spirit being personal) lives on – whether you believe it happens through socially passing down certain attitudes and behaviors or is, in fact, a seperate person of the Trinity.

Second, put aside for a moment the whole issue of whether the Bible is historically accurate or not. I’m not challenging whether it is, but I’m saying that in my thought process I asked myself, “what if it didn’t really happen? Then what do I make of His teachings?”

My overwhelming conclusion was that this man Jesus who was called the Christ has things to say that are wiser than the wisest men I know of in history, in terms of dealing with other human beings with human hearts, through difficult times.

Therefore, even when I had doubts the mission was clear – to conform my life and beliefs to this “Christ” figure – whether it is historical of mythological.

Once having decided to embrace the spirit of Christianity even though I may still doubt the letter of it, then I began to see much growth in myself. I even began to see how there are truths that are greater than any man and WILL be passed along one way or the other – even though fallible and sinful men are doing the passing. This is the nature of the Good News. People all along the way misinterpret it and do evil in its name, but when all the dust settles the message still gets through to those hearts the Spirit calls.

At some point it became irrelevant whether I still had doubts about the historicity of Christ, because I am fully committed to learning to think and act like Him in spirit. Now I am much more free because I have no particular fear, as I’m doing everything I can to adjust and conform to Christ. As a science and math person, I often don’t really get the “feel” of things before I have accepted and learned many basic facts and they come together. Spiritually it seems to go both ways. In addition to facts coming together to form images, I have images and ideas that are wonderful (for example the vision of heaven you started this thread with) but not yet known how to put it into specific words.

And I admit to everyone here that I have been discrediting the faith in recent posts on this forum, for that I truly sorry. And I beg you all and God for his forgiveness…

I need your prayers people, and I don’t want to lose my eternity here if its all true. HELP me my brothers and sisters, help me out of this mental and spiritual abyss I am trapped in, PLEASE!!!

We are here. There are many of us and we say many different things; I trust the Spirit will guide you to hear and see what you need.

Alan

 

[blessedstar]

You think you are in a bad place, you think you are about to lose the good fight, you think that everything spiritual is taking a wrong turn, you think you are abandoned, you think you are spiralling away from faith and you think that you would like to go back to a time in your life when faith was easier.

You are wrong.

You are in a good place, you have been put down from the breast of the Lord (St Paul) and asked to stand as a man/woman in your faith. Grace has not been withdrawn from you, nor is God far off, but in this state of growth of faith God is even closer to you than ever before. The nearer a soul draws to God His Divine Light blinds them and so we believe because we cannot see clear and seem to be in the dark that we truly are lost in the darkness when really we are closer to God than we have ever been before.

You cannot remain a child in your faith, your faith must mature.

‘Happy are those who have not seen and yet believe’

God is asking you to love Him for Himself and not for your own gain and what you can get out of it because to love for Love’s sake is to truly love.

If we were always consoled, we would be swept up in that and never learn to console the heart of Jesus by pure endurance, yes even to our own cross.

Don’t try and do anything except make little short prayers and love those around you and God.

Faith is a journey on the narrow road, stay on it no matter what and remember that journey takes a lifetime.

In my prayers

 

[Pauli]

Catholic29:

It remains to be seen if I can persevere in my faith before I die, or if God makes his reality known to me before then.

I will pray for your perseverence. I need it too.

For the last couple years all God seems to be saying to me is that He wants me to trust him “no matter what.” So there have to be some moments when it looks like the sky is falling. Sometimes the only prayer I can get out is to say his name, Jesus.

The Church for 2000+ years says its true.

 

[Catholic29]

Lux_et_veritas:

I would use the “Contact Us” form on Catholic Therapists website and explain your situation. Ask if there is any way an arrangement can be made for phone or email consultation. You won’t know if you don’t try. If you can afford to pay them, let them know you are not looking for a freebie, but simply cannot make the commute and you need solid Catholic help.

Thank you for your direction, and advice.

But its just so incredibly hard to believe when I am not able to discern the Lord’s presence with my five senses. If only He would allow me to see Him with my eyes if only for a few priceless seconds.

Jesus, PLEASE let me SEE YOU!!!

 

[Lux_et_veritas]

Catholic29:

Thank you for your direction, and advice.

But its just so incredibly hard to believe when I am not able to discern the Lord’s presence with my five senses. If only He would allow me to see Him with my eyes if only for a few priceless seconds.

Jesus, PLEASE let me SEE YOU!!!

My dear friend, be careful what you ask for because it may come to you. The image may be sweeter than you imagine, but the Angel of Darkness is known for his deceptive tactics. By seeking such a thing, you open the door to the master of deception.

Faith based on knowledge is hardly true faith. True faith is seeing without believing and without fully understanding. We base our obedience to that which is unseen and not understood and that is the truest test of faith.

I would ask if you have a solid Catholic priest/confessor you can talk to. When I first plunged head first back into my CAtholic faith I underwent horrible doubts. I experienced unbelievable fear with the thought that there was not God. But, I made it a point to head to confession twice monthly to weekly and in each case I confessed my doubts in God. Slowly I began to uncover the root of some of these doubts. Unable to reconcile some things in my head caused them, so I asked for help with these specific things. In some cases, I made the choice to not seek understanding, all on the basis that true faith is something we exercise without seeing and without understanding.

Faith must be exercised and when we do this, the Holy Spirit will often reward us with the virtue of Faith. Just do it!!!

 

[Lux_et_veritas]

Here is a Catholic tract I just found on doubting God. Perhaps something here may help