HELP! I don't want to lose Heaven if its all true

[Mercysaves]

Forgive me as I am new to this forum and do not want to overstep my place. I have read about half the responses to your problem and I must say that I disagree with most. It is not enough to proclaim yourself a Catholic, you must now practice it. When you shout out to God, Satan also listens and now directs attention on you. I read a lot of “I’s” and “Me’s” in your quandary and I feel you have a lot of time to ponder your situation. I would not spend time seeking God, and answers in you, better yet, seek it in others. I would:

1. Go to a newborn’s section in a hospital and not only see, but feel the innocent first hand. If you can truly meditate on all their “newness” and see your life through the eyes of a child, you will see that you are like them in your spiritual life yearning for direction and needing to be loved, but most importantly feel love for others.
2. Volunteer helping those not as fortunate as yourself. I have found that through the eyes of those in need you will see a reflection of God’s Love. Don’t go into to it to help them spiritually as most times those that have little, or are in need the most usually can teach us a thing or two about faith and hope. Just help, and soon you will see God in them. Work hard and find a need in helping them, consume yourself with just doing good, fill every spare moment with their needs, and when you fall from exhaustion, close your eyes, and you will realize that your efforts have caused a change in the lives of others. Your commitment to God, and doing his work, may have been the answering of someone else’s prayer. You have become God’s instrument in someone else’s life. You have done great for them and you have won an unforgettable victory to look back on and reflect on. When you can cry for others pains, feel their despair, and then celebrate any improvement in them, you can then kneel in God’s house and say “Thank You God for my exhaustion, and I pray for those that have come into my life”. You have now found God again.

Mercy Saves

 

[Catholic29]

Lux_et_veritas:

My dear friend, be careful what you ask for because it may come to you. The image may be sweeter than you imagine, but the Angel of Darkness is known for his deceptive tactics. By seeking such a thing, you open the door to the master of deception.

Faith based on knowledge is hardly true faith. True faith is seeing without believing and without fully understanding. We base our obedience to that which is unseen and not understood and that is the truest test of faith.

I would ask if you have a solid Catholic priest/confessor you can talk to. When I first plunged head first back into my CAtholic faith I underwent horrible doubts. I experienced unbelievable fear with the thought that there was not God. But, I made it a point to head to confession twice monthly to weekly and in each case I confessed my doubts in God. Slowly I began to uncover the root of some of these doubts. Unable to reconcile some things in my head caused them, so I asked for help with these specific things. In some cases, I made the choice to not seek understanding, all on the basis that true faith is something we exercise without seeing and without understanding.

Faith must be exercised and when we do this, the Holy Spirit will often reward us with the virtue of Faith. Just do it!!!

Lux_et_veritas,

I have nothing against Catholicism or believing in Christ without seeing, its just that I want solid reassurance that this is not false belief. The only way I know in my mind to prove to myself Christianity is true or that Jesus is God, is to witness something extraordinary to that effect with my senses. And I feel many others need such an experience in their life, even among many I know personally.

I hope you can understand why I don’t want to end up fooled.

 

[Catholic29]

Mercysaves:

Forgive me as I am new to this forum and do not want to overstep my place. I have read about half the responses to your problem and I must say that I disagree with most. It is not enough to proclaim yourself a Catholic, you must now practice it. When you shout out to God, Satan also listens and now directs attention on you. I read a lot of “I’s” and “Me’s” in your quandary and I feel you have a lot of time to ponder your situation. I would not spend time seeking God, and answers in you, better yet, seek it in others. I would:

1. Go to a newborn’s section in a hospital and not only see, but feel the innocent first hand. If you can truly meditate on all their “newness” and see your life through the eyes of a child, you will see that you are like them in your spiritual life yearning for direction and needing to be loved, but most importantly feel love for others.
2. Volunteer helping those not as fortunate as yourself. I have found that through the eyes of those in need you will see a reflection of God’s Love. Don’t go into to it to help them spiritually as most times those that have little, or are in need the most usually can teach us a thing or two about faith and hope. Just help, and soon you will see God in them. Work hard and find a need in helping them, consume yourself with just doing good, fill every spare moment with their needs, and when you fall from exhaustion, close your eyes, and you will realize that your efforts have caused a change in the lives of others. Your commitment to God, and doing his work, may have been the answering of someone else’s prayer. You have become God’s instrument in someone else’s life. You have done great for them and you have won an unforgettable victory to look back on and reflect on. When you can cry for others pains, feel their despair, and then celebrate any improvement in them, you can then kneel in God’s house and say “Thank You God for my exhaustion, and I pray for those that have come into my life”. You have now found God again.

Mercy Saves

Mercy Saves,

All of that is well and good. Its just I’m afraid would be made out to be a religious fanatic in the eyes of others. And I don’t want to be ostracized by the people around me. Particularily not for something I can’t prove to myself as being true. But if God is out there, he knows what I am going through and knows the questions I have in my mind. So I don’t think he will judge me for not going out on a limb for him.

If ony Jesus would show himself to me, and this crisis will be over in an eye’s blink. I would become the best Catholic anyone has ever known if that happened, and that is guaranteed. Weekly confession, daily mass and rosary, and I would fast every other day…

 

[LilyM]

Catholic29:

If I did what you say, I will be made out to be a religious fanatic in the eyes of others. And I don’t want to be ostracized by the people around me. Particularily not for something I can’t prove to myself as being true. But if God is out there, he knows what I am going through and knows the questions I have in my mind. So I don’t think he will judge me for not going out on a limb for him.

If ony Jesus will show himself to me, and this problem of mine will be over in an eye’s blink. I would become the best Catholic anyone has ever known if that happened, and that is guaranteed. Weekly confession, daily mass and rosary, and I would even fast every other day…

All sorts of people volunteer - not all of them for religious motives. It has practical psychological benefits outside of any religious ones - like putting your own problems in perspective. It’s not like you need to walk around with a sign on your head saying ‘I’m a CHRISTIAN volunteer’.

I don’t know why people would ostracize you for helping others either, irrespective of your motives, unless they’re totally shallow and heartless. Is there more to your situation that we don’t know about?

 

[Catholic29]

LilyM:

All sorts of people volunteer - not all of them for religious motives. It has practical psychological benefits outside of any religious ones - like putting your own problems in perspective. It’s not like you need to walk around with a sign on your head saying ‘I’m a CHRISTIAN volunteer’.

I don’t know why people would ostracize you for helping others either, irrespective of your motives, unless they’re totally shallow and heartless. Is there more to your situation that we don’t know about?

LilyM,

Volunteering in general is not what I have a problem with, nor do I think most other people would either, and I edited my previous post to reflect that. Sorry I didn’t make that so clear at first.

 

[LilyM]

Catholic29:

LilyM,

Volunteering in general is not what I have a problem with, nor do I think most other people would either, and I edited my previous post to reflect that. Sorry I didn’t make that so clear at first.

Quite alright - you should see how many times I edit some of my posts

 

[Mercysaves]

Christian29
The spirit of my post was not for you to go do for others rapped in a cloak of being a Christian but to do for others and put all of your concerns aside. Forget about them and in doing for others and seeing the affect you have for others, and the love you receive, you cannot help but see the face of God. Forget the “Me” in your concerns and give love and it will be returned to you. Open yourself up like an infant. You cannot look into the eyes of a child and not see the wonder that is God.

Mercy Saves

 

[blessedstar]

I can tell you want to believe but the whole point of believing is to have faith and faith needs no proof. You are asking God to prove He is who He is to you and that will never happen in the way you are asking for it to happen (on human demand) by actually seeing God. (least not in this life)

Faith is just that; having faith in the unseen God.

If you really desire to have faith, then pray for faith.

In my prayers.

 

[Eireann]

Catholic29:

I need your prayers people, and I don’t want to lose my eternity here if its all true. HELP me my brothers and sisters, help me out of this mental and spiritual abyss I am trapped in, PLEASE!!!

Prayer to Saint Thomas the Apostle
**O Glorious Saint Thomas, your grief for Jesus was such that it would not let you believe he had risen unless you actually saw him and touched his wounds. But your love for Jesus was equally great and it led you to give up your life for him. Pray for us that we may grieve for our sins which were the cause of Christ’s sufferings. Help us to spend ourselves in his service and so earn the title of “blessed” which Jesus applied to those who would believe in him without seeing him. Amen. **

 

[AlanFromWichita]

Catholic29:

Mercy Saves,

All of that is well and good. Its just I’m afraid would be made out to be a religious fanatic in the eyes of others. And I don’t want to be ostracized by the people around me. Particularily not for something I can’t prove to myself as being true. But if God is out there, he knows what I am going through and knows the questions I have in my mind. So I don’t think he will judge me for not going out on a limb for him.

If ony Jesus would show himself to me, and this crisis will be over in an eye’s blink. I would become the best Catholic anyone has ever known if that happened, and that is guaranteed. Weekly confession, daily mass and rosary, and I would fast every other day…

How can you go out for a limb honestly if you can’t convince yourself the limb holds? For me, I suspect I would have been right alongside Thomas. Thomas did not believe, but what was he asked to believe? A man raised from the dead according to all his buddies? That’s a pretty tough pill to swallow, I’d imagine, even if you did actually see it happen.

Another thing I just realized about doubt. When I “doubt” something it does not mean that I apply my will against believing it. Often I doubt things that I believe are probably true and that I am to support, yet I continue to test them so that they may be purified and the doubt removed. Some people think that what I believe is a matter of my will, and it has taken me 47 years now to figure that one out. How can people just “decide” to believe in something – especially when I, as a science and math person are used to believing things only as they have been proven. Everything else is tentative. My faith has been very difficult to find partly because of this issue that my brains do not stay in whatever cage I tell them. I say, “look this doesn’t make sense (especially as portrayed and/or explained by most Christians) that X or Y is true, so in lieue of either understanding it or having it proven to me, I command you, my brain, to believe this stuff.” It just doesn’t work.

When I’m being coerced to believe something by other people, that’s quite another matter. My will usually gets in the way to the extent that it reminds me, “don’t accept any wooden nickels” to use an old cliche. I’ve been taught my whole life what I am to believe, but given very little guidelines on how to go about arranging my mental and spiritual affairs such that I can actually make it happen.

Near the beginning of a great spiritual war that has been fought in my own mind and heart, I actually came to believe in God through a fairly strange direction – mathematics. I love statistics and playing guessing games with odds, and one time I finally had to admit that there were statistically too many things that had gone a certain way for it all to be just “random.” Randomness itself is an extremely interesting mathematical phenomenon and there is much very advanced math done routinely to ascertain whether events are truly “random” to the best of our measures and according to whatever definition you want of “random.” When all this was considered, I had to come to the conclusion that I was either extremely lucky many times or there is an organized force which has kept me alive. I’m not talking about going back and “awfulizing” the past, but when one sees the number of times my life was on the line and the Lord did not take it, I finally had to conclude that the dice must be loaded.

That’s pretty much where it started with me. When I was a little kid I believed what I was told by adults until years later when I found out “adults” can be a pretty sorry source of information. At that time I lost all beliefs, because they had never been tested and I had no resources to test them myself until such time as I doubted the whole thing and left the Church for a few years. I’d say it wasn’t until after I’d been back attending it for some time that I really started thinking maybe there was something to this whole “God” thing anyway. Again, for me, my first clue was circumstantial evidence based on mathematics.

For you, maybe you will come to believe in God through a totally different direction. The main thing is that I believe things are much beyond what they seem, and whatever “invisible” forces or rules that are guiding all this, seem to have given me a “lucky” break more times than was mathematically expected. If my luck on the lottery were like it was in various life-threatening situations, then I’d be rich after buying only a few tickets.

Alan

 

[Pauli]

Catholic29:

But its just so incredibly hard to believe when I am not able to discern the Lord’s presence with my five senses. If only He would allow me to see Him with my eyes if only for a few priceless seconds.

Jesus, PLEASE let me SEE YOU!!!

We can’t attain the vision of God through our senses.

What we can know, in this life, is that God sees each one of us. I don’t think he’ll answer that prayer, unless to show you a picture of Jesus on the cross. Don’t be afraid of that!

 

[Catholic29]

Attention everyone!!! I have great news which I am sure will make most of you very happy.

Jesus spoke to me through today’s gospel reading at Mass.

And here is the passage:
John 3: 14-21:

14 And just as Moses lifted up 5 the serpent in the desert, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 6 so that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life." 16 For God so loved the world that he gave 7 his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him might not perish but might have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn 8 the world, but that the world might be saved through him. 18 Whoever believes in him will not be condemned, but whoever does not believe has already been condemned, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. 19 9 And this is the verdict, that the light came into the world, but people preferred darkness to light, because their works were evil. 20 For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come toward the light, so that his works might not be exposed. 21 But whoever lives the truth comes to the light, so that his works may be clearly seen as done in God.

After what I heard here, I think I will take not being able to see God yet still believe. Because if all of this is true my soul would be in trouble if I refused to believe, even while not seeing. In light of this, I now DO believe Jesus Christ IS my Lord and saviour.

And I will continue to hold to this even if no one else around me in my life believes it, or if He never reveals himself to my senses in my lifetime.

**Praise be the name of Jesus!!!:dancing: :dancing: **

 

[under_his_wing]

Hi Catholic29,

This is good news.I cant express the joy i felt while reading ur post. Praise be to God.

 

[BarbaraTherese]

Catholic29:

Attention everyone!!! I have great news which I am sure will make most of you very happy.

Jesus spoke to me through today’s gospel reading at Mass.

And here is the passage:

After what I heard here, I think I will take not being able to see God yet still believe. Because if all of this is true my soul would be in trouble if I refused to believe, even while not seeing. In light of this, I now DO believe Jesus Christ IS my Lord and saviour.

And I will continue to hold to this even if no one else around me in my life believes it, or if He never reveals himself to my senses in my lifetime.

**Praise be the name of Jesus!!!:dancing: :dancing: **

Hi there Catholic29…

I rejoice for you!

…I came into this thread and I think read all of most posts anyway, becaue of the title of the thread. The Lord heard what you said “Help! I dont want to loose Heaven if its all true”…and a beautiful prayer in near despair I thought and I am sure The Lord heard it the same way.
Curious, I accessed the picutre that had moved you so much and vainly did try to find who owned the site. But I think I read in a post somewhere that it is an Adventist site and the artwork certainly looks as if this could be so. While the particular image moved you and it is a moving image or artwork, it is nothing more than the produce of someone’s imagination as are all the artworks on that site and in fact almost all the artworks on religious topics everywhere. No one living knows what Heaven is like or will be like…we have to wait for that until we get to Heaven and I am sure you will even if you had not journeyed in this thread to th epoint where you now find yourself and I am happy that you have, because I was becoming quite concerned about you. We are told in Scripture " no one can see the face of God and live".
I was also happy to see the passage from John’s Gospel that moved you.
The apostle Thomas came into discusussion in this thread and Thomas we call The Doubting Apostle , because he refused to believe unless he could see Jesus and put his finger into the wounds from the crucifixion. This is also from John’s Gospel. All this happened after Jesus had risen from the dead. And as Alan said, it is a pretty tall order to ask people to believe that someone has risen from the dead. Jesus also understands that it can be very difficult for us because we have never seen and probably never will until we die and are asked yet to believe.

Jesus appears to Thomas with the others and tells him to put his finger into his wounds. Thomas then believes and Jesus said to him “Thomas you believe only because you have seen, but blessed are those who hve not seen yet believe” Blessed are you Catholic29…and your post above is quite beautiful. Hold to your Faith no matter what, your Faith in Jesus.

If you would like to read the story of Doubting Thomas in John’s Gospel, go to:
etext.lib.virginia.edu/etcbin/rsv2www?specfile=/texts/english/religion/rsv/rsv-pub.o2w&act=text&offset=3807441&textreg=0&query=thomas

and scroll down to Verse 24

If problems should start up again and I hope not, then continue to pray to The Lord in your own words and from your heart and perhaps Catholic Answers can help you again. But I hope and will pray that your problems will not return.
Certainly if you suspect you are mentally having problems including depression, then do seek out professional help through a psychologist or psychiatrist. And if the first is not helpful keep on looking until you find one who can help. There is no need, nor should one, to wait until one is in dire difficulty to seek professional medical help…seek it even if you are only suspicious. Dont wait for a crisis. I know, I have a mental illness and can speak from hard experience.
I will continue to hope and pray that a spiritual director will come your way who will be a companion and guide in your own journey and you keey your eye out for one is my advice.

But my hope is that your new found joy in Faith will continue even though you have not seen - believe even though difficulties and doubts may assail you…and blessed are you.



Barb

 

[Catholic29]

BarbaraTherese:

Hi there Catholic29…

I rejoice for you!

…I came into this thread and I think read all of most posts anyway, becaue of the title of the thread. The Lord heard what you said “Help! I dont want to loose Heaven if its all true”…and a beautiful prayer in near despair I thought and I am sure The Lord heard it the same way.
Curious, I accessed the picutre that had moved you so much and vainly did try to find who owned the site. But I think I read in a post somewhere that it is an Adventist site and the artwork certainly looks as if this could be so. While the particular image moved you and it is a moving image or artwork, it is nothing more than the produce of someone’s imagination as are all the artworks on that site and in fact almost all the artworks on religious topics everywhere. No one living knows what Heaven is like or will be like…we have to wait for that until we get to Heaven and I am sure you will even if you had not journeyed in this thread to th epoint where you now find yourself and I am happy that you have, because I was becoming quite concerned about you. We are told in Scripture " no one can see the face of God and live".
I was also happy to see the passage from John’s Gospel that moved you.
The apostle Thomas came into discusussion in this thread and Thomas we call The Doubting Apostle , because he refused to believe unless he could see Jesus and put his finger into the wounds from the crucifixion. This is also from John’s Gospel. All this happened after Jesus had risen from the dead. And as Alan said, it is a pretty tall order to ask people to believe that someone has risen from the dead. Jesus also understands that it can be very difficult for us because we have never seen and probably never will until we die and are asked yet to believe.

Jesus appears to Thomas with the others and tells him to put his finger into his wounds. Thomas then believes and Jesus said to him “Thomas you believe only because you have seen, but blessed are those who hve not seen yet believe” Blessed are you Catholic29…and your post above is quite beautiful. Hold to your Faith no matter what, your Faith in Jesus.

If you would like to read the story of Doubting Thomas in John’s Gospel, go to:
etext.lib.virginia.edu/etcbin/rsv2www?specfile=/texts/english/religion/rsv/rsv-pub.o2w&act=text&offset=3807441&textreg=0&query=thomas

and scroll down to Verse 24

If problems should start up again and I hope not, then continue to pray to The Lord in your own words and from your heart and perhaps Catholic Answers can help you again. But I hope and will pray that your problems will not return.
Certainly if you suspect you are mentally having problems including depression, then do seek out professional help through a psychologist or psychiatrist. And if the first is not helpful keep on looking until you find one who can help. There is no need, nor should one, to wait until one is in dire difficulty to seek professional medical help…seek it even if you are only suspicious. Dont wait for a crisis. I know, I have a mental illness and can speak from hard experience.
I will continue to hope and pray that a spiritual director will come your way who will be a companion and guide in your own journey and you keey your eye out for one is my advice.

But my hope is that your new found joy in Faith will continue even though you have not seen - believe even though difficulties and doubts may assail you…and blessed are you.



Barb

Thank you Barb,

Even though I have my faith back, of which I am grateful. I know the following days, weeks, months and years of my Christian walk will be far from a cake walk. But I can also grateful for people like you, Veritas and others in this forum who have done their best to help a poor little desperate stranger like me out of the war of doubt he was in. And I don’t think its any coincidence that I see a bit of Jesus in all of you.

Again, words cannot express how thankful I am. And I think there should be a network of Catholics who are available to help in pulling others out of any crisis of faith they may be in. Call it a safety net if you will.

Thank you, and God bless each and everyone of you…



Catholic29

 

[BarbaraTherese]

Catholic29:

Thank you Barb,

Even though I have my faith back, of which I am grateful. I know the following days, weeks, months and years of my Christian walk will be far from a cake walk. But I can also grateful for people like you, Veritas and others in this forum who have done their best to help a poor little desperate stranger like me out of the war of doubt he was in. And I don’t think its any coincidence that I see a bit of Jesus in all of you.

Again, words cannot express how thankful I am. And I think there should be a network of Catholics who are available to help in pulling others out of any crisis of faith they may be in. Call it a safety net if you will.

Thank you, and God bless each and everyone of you…



Catholic29

Perhaps Catholic Answers Forums is something of a spiritual safety net or can be…it has certainly helped me and I am sure many others. May your journey be blessed with peace and joy and may you spread your happiness to all you meet in your journey…it is I who thank you for when my own Faith is tried I can think back to you Catholic29 and touch Hope again…

Barb

 

[Pauli]

I am so happy for you!

In a few weeks it’ll be Easter - This will be the Easter you’ll really have something to rejoice about. So will we, it’s a joy just to think about what the Lord has done for you.