J
jmcrae
Guest
Maybe she doesn’t want the children to realize that their father is not a Catholic.
- Status
J
jmcrae
Guest
Um - so, you were doing these things as a kind of “cry for help”? How was anyone supposed to know that? Were people being expected to read your mind, and say, “Oh, poor Mike!”
In her situation, I think I would probably do the same, quite honestly. Most people wouldn’t see the moping around and the lack of active participation as a “cry for help” - they would read it as boredom and cynicism. If your children were starting to copy this behaviour, I’d want to find a way to put a stop to it, as well.
If one of your kids had to be frog-marched to the store to buy you something for your birthday, and then moped and complained the whole time they were giving it to you, would you thank your child, or would you sit him down and have a chat with him about “the spirit of giving”? Or would you just tell him to please not bother?
Nobody likes to receive a gift that is given grudgingly, or without enthusiasm.
I’m sure she felt that if you wanted to discuss it with her, you would. Most people don’t like to ask a grown man why he is crying, in case he is offended that they noticed it.
C
Carlan
Guest
Mike, I am sorry for your unhappiness, many marriages and families suffer the same unhappiness. If you could only surrender it all for the sake of the love you have your wife and children. The evil one knows exactly which tools to use to destroy love and family.
I t seems that
one is using the center of the Catholic Christian life, the Holy Euchrist to come between you and your family, don’t allow it Mike, there is a prayer that helps many struggling with faith in their walk. and I’ve used it myself through many dry periods.It is very simple and straight from the heart. Lord I believe help my unbelief. God bless you and your family, and keep on keeping on praying that prayer. 
Carlan
F
FiberZilla
Guest
My wife is catholic. The best thing you can do is get yourself grounded in a good solid fundamental bible church and begn studying apologetics. Your apologetics study should begin with the doctrine of the Eucharist and transubstantiation. Listen to audio debates between Protestant and Catholic scholars. Get both sides of the controversial issues and check all teachings against the Word of God. Pray for the Holy Spirit’s guidance as you study the scriptures. You are being disturbed by the fact that your beliefs are not grounded and firm in your heart and mind. You can always “visit” Mass with your wife on occasion. There is nothing wrong with that. In the time being, raise your children to love Jesus Christ for what he has done for us on the cross. In time, they will confront the isses that divide and come to their own conclusions. Be at peace.
P
PeterMuz
Guest
Mike,
I am sorry that you feel unwanted or unwelcome. You are always welcome at mass. I will admit, most protestant churches are better at the social/fellowship part of church. I think one of the reasons is the focus of the mass/service. Fellowship should happen in our daily lives, or after mass as a part of activities etc. Mass is all about focusing on God. Understanding and believing that the Eucharist is in fact Jesus’ body and blood makes this easier to understand. If Jesus were in the room right now, you would probably pretty much ignore everyone else and focus on him right? Who would say “Oh hey, I’m in the same room with Jesus and go talk to someone else”? I am not saying that people are purposely ignoring you, but you can understand where their focus is.
I can understand wanting you wife to ask though. But I can also imagine that as much as you are hurting, she probably is as well. Its a hard thing for both of you, not being able to share something that is so important.
Anyways, I will pray for you both.
J
JRKH
Guest
Yes please do stay in touch.
I know that you have been at this a long time and have issues, but your comment about no one talking to you sparks this question. How many people have you talked to?
It is indeed sad that you cried for feeling so lonely. Please keep trying.
As others have said before, others may not know tha tyou are struggling so.
It sounds as though you have shyness issues. You keep speaking about how others don’t approach you but say nothing about what things you have volunteered for or priests you have asked etc.
This also tells me that there may be bigger issues. The issue of transubstantiation is not a little thing. If you wife truely thinks it is then she needs some catachesis as well.
The fact that you continued to go seems to me to be a good thing. Wanting to show a united household. However if, as you say, you have been openly critical of the Church both by your words and actions in church and out of church, I can see why she would ask you not to attend.
You will feel left out and unwelcome until you make youreself feel welcome within the Church. I’m sorry if that sounds cold, but it is true. You really need to call and make an appointment with father see if you can’t get some of your concerns answered and also see what ministries you might fit into. Perhaps even get set up with a spiritual director who can help you determine if your objections to the Churches teachings are insurmountable.
Yes - Please do keep in touch.
Peace
James
H
Hlafdige
Guest
You think you have trouble wrapping your heart and mind around the mystery of the Eucharist? Yet you sound like you care enough about the issue to have a look at one more “take” on it, more from a philosophical angle than from the traditional arguments of any church.
This book, free for download on the internet, will at the very least articulate the huge dimension of the difficulty, show you that you’re not alone, and provide a taste of one brilliant and utterly honest intellectual’s answer.
The Knucklehead’s Guide to Covenantal Theology: catholiclearning.com/knuckle.html
This book, free for download on the internet, will at the very least articulate the huge dimension of the difficulty, show you that you’re not alone, and provide a taste of one brilliant and utterly honest intellectual’s answer.
The Knucklehead’s Guide to Covenantal Theology: catholiclearning.com/knuckle.html
M
monicatholic
Guest
The Lord cares if you come or not. The Lord Jesus knows your sorrow of being ingored and your difficulties being dismissed. He has seen your sacrifice for the spiritual life of your family-- years of attending Mass, getting the kids back and forth to CCD etc.
my 2 suggestions for you:
1.continue to pray for your family and for yourself.
2. go to a different catholic Church (alone if your family won’t go.) during the consecration, ***look. *** (you needen’t fear participating in idol worship if you’re simply looking.)
M
mikehere
Guest
The Tech guy poster w/ the info gets pushed or pulled angle makes some sense to me after considering this possibility…but it still seems totally unconsionable ( from my Protestant background) that church is private ?? I will think on this, as it is a point of view that honnestly never ever entered my mind…
I have volunteered at her church a number of times…like 7 /8 maybe 9 days total helping w/ carnivals…built them games etc - assited my wife in her volunteering. People recognized me but never actually talked / connected in a meaningful way…like they don’t know my name but still recognise me type of thing…maybe their afraid of me as a non Catholic ? never thought much about that either…
It would be way way over the top uncomfortable to talk to her priest…how could I ever go to someone who has not said so much as hello my name is xxxx in all these years and ask his help…If I EVER did see one, it would have to be a different guy…this one is really really into the theatrics of his Mass…which for me has been extra offensive in terms of worshiping his commuion…( I know I know…I’m trying to see it’s God…but some - but not all - of you here have missed that for me …it is just as real that trans-sub is not true, as it is true for you … This frame of mind ( which my wife comes from too) feels very insensitive and insulting to me…Hope that you understand what I’m trying to say…This is not bashing…or trying to start a fight w/ anyone…it’s just telling you what I feel / believe in my heart…
Once about 4 yrs ago I noticed my name listed as a member of her church on our mail…this upset me as I never asked to join and still consider myself a member of the Reformed Church I grew up in…I thought why would I be a member of a church that does not welcome me to commuion or really in any way…how could they just “sign me up” w/o any information…baptism marriage records ceremony etc…? I called the parish office and asked to have my name removed as a member…The lady laughed at me …actually laughed… & said yea…alot of people get upset about that but that’s the way we do them …not… Is there some problem, has something happened ? would you like to talk with someone about this ? Nothing but laughed at me…Now all this time later my wife has never mentioned the change to me. This could never be considered just being private to me…
I asked a priest (not her’s but the retired one who is also assigned to her church) one day at the health club why my wife would be so distressed about my trying to attend a Reformed church…he asked if I could get her to see him…Not like…have you ever considered the CC or …Would you be willing to join this group or read this book or "there is this part of our doctrine that makes this a special obligation for her, let me explain…
It’s like I need to stand on the corner & yell at these people and beg them to consider sharing what they believe…
I guess I need to think more on the push pull info deal, but you gotta be able to see this at least seems to me…like they don’t really care.
There’s more too…but like one guy said in a post…it does not matter to the Church…that is the way I read it anyway…
I probably sound like a poor me kind of guy…maybe I am…I don’t see it this way though. What I’m trying to explain to you is there are reasons why I have developed my impression of the CC…not just that I’m ornery & a Catholic basher projecting some other issue onto the church…this is about how I’ve expierienced the CC & what that has done to my life…
My wife & I really don’t argue doctrine…she has never attempted in any way to substaniate her beliefs to me…very frustrating & makes it seem all the more hard to accept…like ther is no basis for what she believes. From what I’ve gathered here at caf she’s a total cradle Catholic…this is what we do & we don’t ask questions, we don’t explain & we don’t consider any other posssiblilty…But I am trying to learn here…so thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut everyone…I mean it…you are helping me consider things in a different frame of mind. W/ no real learning about the faith in Mass… no Sunday school, no dialog w/ my wife other than unpleasant “discussion” that ends w/ us both more upset & defensive …no one ever showing any interest in my situation at the church, I hope you can see why I might feel like nobody cares what it’s like for me
Running out of time again…more when I can - THANK YOU ALL again for caring enough to write me…I will check out the resources you have offered…
ps some of you asked …twin cities…MN is where I live…
Mike
I have volunteered at her church a number of times…like 7 /8 maybe 9 days total helping w/ carnivals…built them games etc - assited my wife in her volunteering. People recognized me but never actually talked / connected in a meaningful way…like they don’t know my name but still recognise me type of thing…maybe their afraid of me as a non Catholic ? never thought much about that either…
It would be way way over the top uncomfortable to talk to her priest…how could I ever go to someone who has not said so much as hello my name is xxxx in all these years and ask his help…If I EVER did see one, it would have to be a different guy…this one is really really into the theatrics of his Mass…which for me has been extra offensive in terms of worshiping his commuion…( I know I know…I’m trying to see it’s God…but some - but not all - of you here have missed that for me …it is just as real that trans-sub is not true, as it is true for you … This frame of mind ( which my wife comes from too) feels very insensitive and insulting to me…Hope that you understand what I’m trying to say…This is not bashing…or trying to start a fight w/ anyone…it’s just telling you what I feel / believe in my heart…
Once about 4 yrs ago I noticed my name listed as a member of her church on our mail…this upset me as I never asked to join and still consider myself a member of the Reformed Church I grew up in…I thought why would I be a member of a church that does not welcome me to commuion or really in any way…how could they just “sign me up” w/o any information…baptism marriage records ceremony etc…? I called the parish office and asked to have my name removed as a member…The lady laughed at me …actually laughed… & said yea…alot of people get upset about that but that’s the way we do them …not… Is there some problem, has something happened ? would you like to talk with someone about this ? Nothing but laughed at me…Now all this time later my wife has never mentioned the change to me. This could never be considered just being private to me…
I asked a priest (not her’s but the retired one who is also assigned to her church) one day at the health club why my wife would be so distressed about my trying to attend a Reformed church…he asked if I could get her to see him…Not like…have you ever considered the CC or …Would you be willing to join this group or read this book or "there is this part of our doctrine that makes this a special obligation for her, let me explain…
It’s like I need to stand on the corner & yell at these people and beg them to consider sharing what they believe…
I guess I need to think more on the push pull info deal, but you gotta be able to see this at least seems to me…like they don’t really care.
There’s more too…but like one guy said in a post…it does not matter to the Church…that is the way I read it anyway…
I probably sound like a poor me kind of guy…maybe I am…I don’t see it this way though. What I’m trying to explain to you is there are reasons why I have developed my impression of the CC…not just that I’m ornery & a Catholic basher projecting some other issue onto the church…this is about how I’ve expierienced the CC & what that has done to my life…
My wife & I really don’t argue doctrine…she has never attempted in any way to substaniate her beliefs to me…very frustrating & makes it seem all the more hard to accept…like ther is no basis for what she believes. From what I’ve gathered here at caf she’s a total cradle Catholic…this is what we do & we don’t ask questions, we don’t explain & we don’t consider any other posssiblilty…But I am trying to learn here…so thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut everyone…I mean it…you are helping me consider things in a different frame of mind. W/ no real learning about the faith in Mass… no Sunday school, no dialog w/ my wife other than unpleasant “discussion” that ends w/ us both more upset & defensive …no one ever showing any interest in my situation at the church, I hope you can see why I might feel like nobody cares what it’s like for me
Running out of time again…more when I can - THANK YOU ALL again for caring enough to write me…I will check out the resources you have offered…
ps some of you asked …twin cities…MN is where I live…
Mike
J
JRKH
Guest
Mike - So much in the above that I won’t try to deal with any of the specifics.
I will just say tha tI am glad you have found a place where you can vent and ask questions and so forth. Here at CAF we will do our best to answer your questions, and to point you toward books etc that might help.
As far as talking to a priest, I can see where youmight want to keep this as provate as possible. I wonder if you could call the bishopric office and get in contact with someone that way.
In any event - You just keep asking questions my friend. We’ll do the best we can, and pray that the Holy Spirit helps you, and your wife, see your way through these difficulties.
Peace
James
J
Jennifer_J
Guest
Heya, neighbor! We live north of you in the St Cloud Metro area. :tiphat: I know that there are many resources in your area and I’m hoping others who live a bit nearer can offer those resources.
It really sounds like you and your wife could use some help communicating with each other. I don’t know how each of you would feel about it, but there are groups who offer weekend type retreats/seminars/learning opportunites designed to help aid in communication. Something like this:
retrouvaille.org/ (looks like there is one coming up this weekend in MN)
wwme.org/new.html
exceptionalmarriages.com/ (offers phone counseling)
These are Catholic based, which might be an issue for you, I know. It may be a place to start, though, to get communication back on track–so you can talk about those hard issues.
Many prayers for you and your wife and family.
E
EDB
Guest
Mike,
I really hope that you will take this post in the spirit in which it is given. I am not attempting to ambush you, but after reading your posts I have 2 obsrvations to make:
I really hope that you will take this post in the spirit in which it is given. I am not attempting to ambush you, but after reading your posts I have 2 obsrvations to make:
- It sounds to me as though you approach going to Mass with your wife and children as a burden to you that she has no right to ask of you. You sit and stare at the floor, pout and get hurt because no one talks to you. Honestly if I saw someone sitting in the front row behaving that way, I would have much to do with him if it was in a church or a theatre, etc.
- The other impression I get from your posts is that you are anti-catholic. You had hoped to convert your wife and since it has not worked out you are angry at her and the Catholic church. You make it difficult and unpleasant for your wife to practice her faith; then want her and her parish to bend over backwards to be friendly to you! Do you present an exterior that would invite anyone to approach you, or are you surly and pouting whenever your are “forced” to be in her church?
P
puzzleannie
Guest
just to ask of OP has perhaps thought about starting a support group for non-Catholic spouses or other family members of Catholics, perhaps as a group on this forum
sorry your parish is making you feel unwelcome, they need a slap upside the head if they are that poor at evangelizing. but don’t confuse issues you have with your wife that are not really about religious practice or doctrine, with parish issues. Sometimes one thing masquerades as another, and the real underlying issue is not the thing that is the outward reason for arguements and disagreements. For example, a disagreement about child rearing can show itself over debate on whose church shall the children attend this week. Another example is tithing, a mixed marriage couple I know fights about this all the time because the spouse’s protestant church demands tithing, but since they are relatives, it seems to me their real issue is finances & spending in general, and tithing is just the excuse.
There has to be mutual respect when spouses disagree on fundamentals, and the fundamental cannot be used as an excuse to thrash out other problems.
When you marry someone you also get their family, and that includes their church family, which is why I think people always warn about mixed marriages–because they know from experience how much baggage and built-in conflict comes with that situation.
Keep praying, keep worshipping in the manner in which you were raised, before considering the Catholic Church find out all you can about your own, where their beliefs came from, how their theology has expressed itself over time, why your own congregation preaches and worships as it does. No matter what direction you take in the future, you need to do this in order to fully understand the Catholic teaching, and why Catholics “do what they do.”
Work on the marriage itself and don’t allow religious differences to become a focal point for other sources of conflict. Work on each issue as it arises, and keep mutual respect and love central to your relationship. Be Christians with and for one another and for your children.
sorry your parish is making you feel unwelcome, they need a slap upside the head if they are that poor at evangelizing. but don’t confuse issues you have with your wife that are not really about religious practice or doctrine, with parish issues. Sometimes one thing masquerades as another, and the real underlying issue is not the thing that is the outward reason for arguements and disagreements. For example, a disagreement about child rearing can show itself over debate on whose church shall the children attend this week. Another example is tithing, a mixed marriage couple I know fights about this all the time because the spouse’s protestant church demands tithing, but since they are relatives, it seems to me their real issue is finances & spending in general, and tithing is just the excuse.
There has to be mutual respect when spouses disagree on fundamentals, and the fundamental cannot be used as an excuse to thrash out other problems.
When you marry someone you also get their family, and that includes their church family, which is why I think people always warn about mixed marriages–because they know from experience how much baggage and built-in conflict comes with that situation.
Keep praying, keep worshipping in the manner in which you were raised, before considering the Catholic Church find out all you can about your own, where their beliefs came from, how their theology has expressed itself over time, why your own congregation preaches and worships as it does. No matter what direction you take in the future, you need to do this in order to fully understand the Catholic teaching, and why Catholics “do what they do.”
Work on the marriage itself and don’t allow religious differences to become a focal point for other sources of conflict. Work on each issue as it arises, and keep mutual respect and love central to your relationship. Be Christians with and for one another and for your children.
L
LemonPoppy
Guest
I just had to jump in here and say amen! to all of this. I am currently in RCIA classes after attending CC for almost 2 yrs every Sunday. The only time anyone spoke to me was during the sign of peace. Occasionally the greeter would say hello as they handed me the paper with the music selections on it but that was so rare.
For the last yr. I have had this constant inner struggle about where I was going spiritually. I needed to decide if I was going to stay or go. I could not go. My heart yearned to be a part of the CC even though I also struggled with the feelings of not belonging and not being wanted. Feeling like no one noticed or cared whether I was there or not. I would read the bulletin every week and see all the stuff going on within the church and I yearned to be a part but because I didn’t know anyone and because I did not feel as if I belonged I never attempted to join in, but oh how I wanted to. I too spent many a Sunday sitting in the 4th or 5th row crying through Mass…and no one other than my husband ever acknowledged my tears. Our grandson passed away a yr. ago today so needless to say this past yr. has been very hard. I did not (and still don’t) understand why Monsignor or one of the Deacons never approached me or welcomed me and ask me what was hurting me so badly. But it never happened. My hurt feelings made me want to never go back…but each Sunday I got up, got ready and went to Mass. In my heart I knew that was where I belonged.
One day I noticed a sign in the gathering space about the RCIA classes and I wrote the number of the person to contact down on my bulletin. I laid the bulletin on the end table and went about my business. Mid week I noticed the bulletin and without hesitation I picked up the phone and dialed the number. The lady I spoke with was so kind and welcoming. We talked and talked that day. I met with her that Sunday after Mass and when I walked into the room where the classes were wrapping up each and every person smiled at me, introduced themselves, asked my name and made me feel welcome. It was like finally coming home.
Since then I have had a couple of meetings with the Deacon. I was married many yrs ago and need to have that marriage annulled and my current marriage of 26 yrs. convalidated. He has been so kind and helpful to me through this process. It took less than 10 days to get all the paperwork together because he made himself totally available to me when I had questions and helped me through the process. I signed the papers yesterday and shortly after he drove downtown to the diocese and submitted them. I can’t tell you how that made me feel. He went above and beyond in my opinion and by doing so he made me feel important and wanted.
This past Saturday I joined in on Sandwich Saturday (one Sat. a month our parish makes sandwiches for the homeless.) I didn’t know a soul but by the time I left I had been introduced to at least half of the 60+ people there. We made 1653 sandwiches in a half hour. It was amazing! I will definitely be there the next time and that time after that and the time after that…
We took tags off the tree in the gathering space after Mass Sunday and have adopted a family to provide Christmas for. Last year we didn’t join in. This year we opted to adopt the whole family not just a member or two. It feels so good to be involved.
When I walked into Mass Sunday there were at least 3 people who said hello to me by name. One lady even hugged me and told me how excited she was to have me there. A complete 360 from what I have/had experienced there for the last 2 yrs. My husband has even remarked about how different he, a cradle Catholic, feels now that the ice has been broken. He feels a sense of belonging and eagerness to be a part of it all where before we just came to Mass and went home each Sunday feeling like something was missing.
What this very long winded tale is meant to share with Mike is that sometimes you have to make the first moves. By nature I am shy and not at all one to take the bull by the horns. Each move I’ve made in my heart I know is because Jesus is taking me by the hand and showing me that these people are there for me, ready and willing to be my church family I just had to make the decision to join them.
I cannot tell you the weight that has been lifted off me. Though I am still dealing with a lot of grief and having a hard time watching a part of my family splinter apart ,I feel for the first time that I can handle this. I’ll be alright.
So I second the advice given…read the bulletin. Pick one thing that interests you and make that leap of faith to participate and see where that leads you.
I also urge you to talk to the parish priest and see what kind of advice he can give you on how to proceed with your wife. I think it could be a good thing for the two of you to check into Retrouvaille. (retrouvaille.org/) This was recommended to me by the Deacon when I shared with him how this past yr. has affected my marriage. It’s too much to go into but suffice to say even though my husband and I love each other dearly we have drifted apart under the strain of our grief etc. I’ve heard nothing but wonderful things about this program.
Good luck to you and I look forward to hearing how you’re doing.
For the last yr. I have had this constant inner struggle about where I was going spiritually. I needed to decide if I was going to stay or go. I could not go. My heart yearned to be a part of the CC even though I also struggled with the feelings of not belonging and not being wanted. Feeling like no one noticed or cared whether I was there or not. I would read the bulletin every week and see all the stuff going on within the church and I yearned to be a part but because I didn’t know anyone and because I did not feel as if I belonged I never attempted to join in, but oh how I wanted to. I too spent many a Sunday sitting in the 4th or 5th row crying through Mass…and no one other than my husband ever acknowledged my tears. Our grandson passed away a yr. ago today so needless to say this past yr. has been very hard. I did not (and still don’t) understand why Monsignor or one of the Deacons never approached me or welcomed me and ask me what was hurting me so badly. But it never happened. My hurt feelings made me want to never go back…but each Sunday I got up, got ready and went to Mass. In my heart I knew that was where I belonged.
One day I noticed a sign in the gathering space about the RCIA classes and I wrote the number of the person to contact down on my bulletin. I laid the bulletin on the end table and went about my business. Mid week I noticed the bulletin and without hesitation I picked up the phone and dialed the number. The lady I spoke with was so kind and welcoming. We talked and talked that day. I met with her that Sunday after Mass and when I walked into the room where the classes were wrapping up each and every person smiled at me, introduced themselves, asked my name and made me feel welcome. It was like finally coming home.
Since then I have had a couple of meetings with the Deacon. I was married many yrs ago and need to have that marriage annulled and my current marriage of 26 yrs. convalidated. He has been so kind and helpful to me through this process. It took less than 10 days to get all the paperwork together because he made himself totally available to me when I had questions and helped me through the process. I signed the papers yesterday and shortly after he drove downtown to the diocese and submitted them. I can’t tell you how that made me feel. He went above and beyond in my opinion and by doing so he made me feel important and wanted.
This past Saturday I joined in on Sandwich Saturday (one Sat. a month our parish makes sandwiches for the homeless.) I didn’t know a soul but by the time I left I had been introduced to at least half of the 60+ people there. We made 1653 sandwiches in a half hour. It was amazing! I will definitely be there the next time and that time after that and the time after that…
We took tags off the tree in the gathering space after Mass Sunday and have adopted a family to provide Christmas for. Last year we didn’t join in. This year we opted to adopt the whole family not just a member or two. It feels so good to be involved.
When I walked into Mass Sunday there were at least 3 people who said hello to me by name. One lady even hugged me and told me how excited she was to have me there. A complete 360 from what I have/had experienced there for the last 2 yrs. My husband has even remarked about how different he, a cradle Catholic, feels now that the ice has been broken. He feels a sense of belonging and eagerness to be a part of it all where before we just came to Mass and went home each Sunday feeling like something was missing.
What this very long winded tale is meant to share with Mike is that sometimes you have to make the first moves. By nature I am shy and not at all one to take the bull by the horns. Each move I’ve made in my heart I know is because Jesus is taking me by the hand and showing me that these people are there for me, ready and willing to be my church family I just had to make the decision to join them.
I cannot tell you the weight that has been lifted off me. Though I am still dealing with a lot of grief and having a hard time watching a part of my family splinter apart ,I feel for the first time that I can handle this. I’ll be alright.
So I second the advice given…read the bulletin. Pick one thing that interests you and make that leap of faith to participate and see where that leads you.
I also urge you to talk to the parish priest and see what kind of advice he can give you on how to proceed with your wife. I think it could be a good thing for the two of you to check into Retrouvaille. (retrouvaille.org/) This was recommended to me by the Deacon when I shared with him how this past yr. has affected my marriage. It’s too much to go into but suffice to say even though my husband and I love each other dearly we have drifted apart under the strain of our grief etc. I’ve heard nothing but wonderful things about this program.
Good luck to you and I look forward to hearing how you’re doing.
F
flyingfish
Guest
Could it be that she thought you were crying because you were overwhelmed with faith-inspired emotion? I have seen people cry in church on occasion because they were deeply moved by the music or the readings or the whole concept of people coming together and praying.
When I see people cry in Church I just assume they are having a religious experience, I never think they are crying because they are actually sad.
Also, it seems that your wife’s church is not very welcoming. Do you think that could be playing a huge part in your views about Catholicism? What if you were to attend a more friendly Catholic church together?
J
JRKH
Guest
While I don’t think mike is particularly “Anti-Catholic” I can see where you might get this impression. Much of it probably comes from his non-catholic upbringing and teaching.
Overall I think you put some good thoughts out there.
I hope we all remember that we are getting only the thinnest slice, and only from mike’s perspective, of what is obviously a very long and complex story involving both mike AND his wife.
MIke were all pulling for ya.
Peace
James
M
mikehere
Guest
Here’s some more…
Why are people so cold ? Why do you believe the Priest is making God on the alter, Why do you burn stuff…candles palms incense…why do you spalsh water on everything…Whats with kissing the cross, and the “blessing” inatimat objects… if you don’t worship idols, why do you have them…how could it be right in God’s eyes to “charge” hundreds and hundreds of dollars for our kids Catholic education classes, & then post hard fast rules about “cut off” dates to get into the classes, as if some poor child who registered late or couldn’t pay was to be left out. The education director actualy got up infront of the congregation during Mass and explained there “will be no late registrations…” It’s not the money …she is free to support her church with our money any way she pleases - I’ve NEVER questioned her support financially for the church…I don’t think we give enough…Why do they use ALL fast contemporary music no one sings along with…the people just stare blankly ahead & wait for the songs to be over…Could we just sing an occasion song that was not written in the last 20 years so these people could expierience how powerful it can be to actually sing a hymn as a congregation…Things like how can they go to the new church building as a group & “work” on construction projects on the sabath…
I’m sure there’s plenty more…it’s been 23 years & 4 different churches we’ve attended, but you can get the idea… I talked about these things to my wife ( I’ll admit not always in a postive light) & she did not say…Mike this is because we believe x or y or z …& see this part of my faith leads me to see meaning in this or that… or, I want to ask you to come to this group, or that group, or read this book, or I don’t know…some sliver of some explination for all the stuff you guys do…
Or she could have said… I see your hurting…I think you need to attend your own church and I will attend mine…I will support you in doing that. My efforts to attend the Reformed Church were met with:
You are going to confuse the kids
You are going to “spoil” the kid’s religious background
If you start atttending your own church, the kids may not want to follow through with confimation in the CC.
You are not honoring your commitment to let me raise them as Catholics if you attend your own church…
Do not tell the kids why you won’t come to Mass anymore
So…
Now I’m learning…
Mass is not about fellowship or the social aspects I have expected, & been trying so hard to find there all this time… ( I’m not so sure it really exists - but I’m trying not to rule it out)
The church does not see the Priest as the guy making God on the alter…It’s God through the Priest…(How could she not offer to explain this if she knows & believes it ?)
People are “private” about their expierience with God during Mass
The statues & items on display are venerated…not worshiped
Reaching out to me would have been considered out of bounds or impolite - I may come to understand this one day, but it will NEVER seem right…
The church does not espouse “only Catholics” get to heaven
Maybe you guys think…how could he not know this…or why would he keep coming…he’s 47 years old. But, I assure you, for me this has been real, and this has been painful, & this is how I’ve experienced the CC.
I plan to keep trying to learn more I guess…but, I hope you all are able to see…the walls are more than pretty thick…& when no one talks to you…or explains this stuff…& it seems like your spouse just believes in all this w/o ever having any kind of explination or basis to any of it other than “this is our history”…or “that’s what we do”, & you come from a place 180 degrees off of that, it’s not so hard to believe Catholics don’t want you involved in their church…
anyway…maybe I’ve said too much…I need to digest some more of what you guys have offered here…
Thank You again for telling me about your church…
PS on #2 ( I have NEVER tried to get my wife to leave the CC, or asked her to, or covertly tried to manipulate her into leaving the CC. What I’ve wished for all these years is to be supported in attending my own church…still workin on why that would have been wrong for her to do… )
- Yes It has been a burden to me to attend…I continued to go with her all those years inspite of the fact that no one talked to me… & that she never explained this stuff to me when I used to question her about the church…
Why are people so cold ? Why do you believe the Priest is making God on the alter, Why do you burn stuff…candles palms incense…why do you spalsh water on everything…Whats with kissing the cross, and the “blessing” inatimat objects… if you don’t worship idols, why do you have them…how could it be right in God’s eyes to “charge” hundreds and hundreds of dollars for our kids Catholic education classes, & then post hard fast rules about “cut off” dates to get into the classes, as if some poor child who registered late or couldn’t pay was to be left out. The education director actualy got up infront of the congregation during Mass and explained there “will be no late registrations…” It’s not the money …she is free to support her church with our money any way she pleases - I’ve NEVER questioned her support financially for the church…I don’t think we give enough…Why do they use ALL fast contemporary music no one sings along with…the people just stare blankly ahead & wait for the songs to be over…Could we just sing an occasion song that was not written in the last 20 years so these people could expierience how powerful it can be to actually sing a hymn as a congregation…Things like how can they go to the new church building as a group & “work” on construction projects on the sabath…
I’m sure there’s plenty more…it’s been 23 years & 4 different churches we’ve attended, but you can get the idea… I talked about these things to my wife ( I’ll admit not always in a postive light) & she did not say…Mike this is because we believe x or y or z …& see this part of my faith leads me to see meaning in this or that… or, I want to ask you to come to this group, or that group, or read this book, or I don’t know…some sliver of some explination for all the stuff you guys do…
Or she could have said… I see your hurting…I think you need to attend your own church and I will attend mine…I will support you in doing that. My efforts to attend the Reformed Church were met with:
You are going to confuse the kids
You are going to “spoil” the kid’s religious background
If you start atttending your own church, the kids may not want to follow through with confimation in the CC.
You are not honoring your commitment to let me raise them as Catholics if you attend your own church…
Do not tell the kids why you won’t come to Mass anymore
So…
Now I’m learning…
Mass is not about fellowship or the social aspects I have expected, & been trying so hard to find there all this time… ( I’m not so sure it really exists - but I’m trying not to rule it out)
The church does not see the Priest as the guy making God on the alter…It’s God through the Priest…(How could she not offer to explain this if she knows & believes it ?)
People are “private” about their expierience with God during Mass
The statues & items on display are venerated…not worshiped
Reaching out to me would have been considered out of bounds or impolite - I may come to understand this one day, but it will NEVER seem right…
The church does not espouse “only Catholics” get to heaven
Maybe you guys think…how could he not know this…or why would he keep coming…he’s 47 years old. But, I assure you, for me this has been real, and this has been painful, & this is how I’ve experienced the CC.
I plan to keep trying to learn more I guess…but, I hope you all are able to see…the walls are more than pretty thick…& when no one talks to you…or explains this stuff…& it seems like your spouse just believes in all this w/o ever having any kind of explination or basis to any of it other than “this is our history”…or “that’s what we do”, & you come from a place 180 degrees off of that, it’s not so hard to believe Catholics don’t want you involved in their church…
anyway…maybe I’ve said too much…I need to digest some more of what you guys have offered here…
Thank You again for telling me about your church…
PS on #2 ( I have NEVER tried to get my wife to leave the CC, or asked her to, or covertly tried to manipulate her into leaving the CC. What I’ve wished for all these years is to be supported in attending my own church…still workin on why that would have been wrong for her to do… )
K
kage_ar
Guest
If you check your bulletin, there are likely RCIA classes going on right now, this is where all these things are explained to non-Catholics. You will also meet people there!
M
monicatholic
Guest
mike,
you’re a pretty intense and thoughtful guy. i’m thrilled to experience Catholicism through your eyes. you’ve taught me a ton!!! thank you. your sharing has been really helpful.
here’s what i’m thinking: your wife doesn’tr explain, your wife feels the kids faith life is threatened, she is unresponsive etc because she doesn’t KNOW the answers! that’s what i think. i think she’s a deep believer but doesn’t know why. her poor plight is so absolutely common amongst adult catholics.
people of our generATION (I’M 47, TOO) folks from age 50 down through 30 have had the WORST catechism of all time! we don’t KNOW how to respond to questions, so everything seems like a threat!!!
that’s a little how it was with my evangelical husband and me 16 years ago. i felt his challenges were threats. but i thought, ‘dammit, there’s gotta be answers to this stuff.’ i had to relearn my faith.
as for why does every song have to be some goofy upbeat guitar number? i don’t know mike, but i ***feeeel ***your pain. we attend the schola mass which as the schola cantora (latin song school) doing all the latin sung part. ahh. relief. peace.
and it’s not primarily that catholics are unfriendly, but we have really gone through some turmoil. we went through 2 decades of clapping, waving, hugging everyone in sight. it’s possible back then you may have seemed unhuggable? (consider that a blessing)
but we catholics are really trying to re-establish our relationship with God first (vertical relationship) and focus less energy on the pal to pal relationship (horizontal) maybe we’re swinging with the pendulum too far? perhaps.
still, i think you might like to ask around-- seek out a more traditional liturgy and try it for a while.
as for DRE’s, i gotta tell you. i am one. in fact i’m two. i do it in 2 parishes. struggling families get scholarships all over the place. with me, they don’t need to explain, they just ask. until my bosses (pastors) tell me differnetly, that’s how it is. but darn it, deadlines are important. why? because religious ed is LAST on most peoples’ list. it’s what they do AFTER everything else is done-- maybe. we have to present a program in one piece-- with integrity. that wholecloth presentation urges people to reconsider the importance of faith formation. and logisiticaly and practically, we ***have ***to. we gotta order books, find and prepare enough catechist etc. (i would NEVER make that pitch from the pulpit, though.)
anyway, if we’re helping you, i’m thrilled. but you’re helping me (us) plenty.
you’re a pretty intense and thoughtful guy. i’m thrilled to experience Catholicism through your eyes. you’ve taught me a ton!!! thank you. your sharing has been really helpful.
here’s what i’m thinking: your wife doesn’tr explain, your wife feels the kids faith life is threatened, she is unresponsive etc because she doesn’t KNOW the answers! that’s what i think. i think she’s a deep believer but doesn’t know why. her poor plight is so absolutely common amongst adult catholics.
people of our generATION (I’M 47, TOO) folks from age 50 down through 30 have had the WORST catechism of all time! we don’t KNOW how to respond to questions, so everything seems like a threat!!!
that’s a little how it was with my evangelical husband and me 16 years ago. i felt his challenges were threats. but i thought, ‘dammit, there’s gotta be answers to this stuff.’ i had to relearn my faith.
as for why does every song have to be some goofy upbeat guitar number? i don’t know mike, but i ***feeeel ***your pain. we attend the schola mass which as the schola cantora (latin song school) doing all the latin sung part. ahh. relief. peace.
and it’s not primarily that catholics are unfriendly, but we have really gone through some turmoil. we went through 2 decades of clapping, waving, hugging everyone in sight. it’s possible back then you may have seemed unhuggable? (consider that a blessing)
but we catholics are really trying to re-establish our relationship with God first (vertical relationship) and focus less energy on the pal to pal relationship (horizontal) maybe we’re swinging with the pendulum too far? perhaps.
still, i think you might like to ask around-- seek out a more traditional liturgy and try it for a while.
as for DRE’s, i gotta tell you. i am one. in fact i’m two. i do it in 2 parishes. struggling families get scholarships all over the place. with me, they don’t need to explain, they just ask. until my bosses (pastors) tell me differnetly, that’s how it is. but darn it, deadlines are important. why? because religious ed is LAST on most peoples’ list. it’s what they do AFTER everything else is done-- maybe. we have to present a program in one piece-- with integrity. that wholecloth presentation urges people to reconsider the importance of faith formation. and logisiticaly and practically, we ***have ***to. we gotta order books, find and prepare enough catechist etc. (i would NEVER make that pitch from the pulpit, though.)
anyway, if we’re helping you, i’m thrilled. but you’re helping me (us) plenty.
C
Carlan
Guest
Mike,It is good to know that you are going to continue to learn more about the Church.
From all the objections you have shared with us it is clear to me, there is plenty of blame from all sides in your situation. Your wife has had her side to struggle with these many years also and your children no doubt in the middle of it all. There is much good material through the internet and Catholic books stores and other recourses and so there is really no reason for you to not take advantage of it all on your own initiative, Many of us had to do it on own, we had to accept that gift of God,s active grace nudging us to respond personally, we just can’t wait for others to do it for us. It doesn’t work that way.May God bless and help you and your wife in your deepest need,
Carlan- Status