Help! I'm being eaten alive by fundamentalists!

[LSK]

Oh - and for immaculate conception:

Lk 1:28 hail full of grace the lord is with you
Lk 1:30 you have found favor with God
Lk 1:37 for with God nothing shall be impossible
Gn 3:15 complete enemity between/woman & Satan, sin
Ex 25:11-21 ark made of purest gold for God’s word

Good Luck!

 

[Super_B]

WhatMeWorry:

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http://www.churchofchristdiscussions.com/YaBBImages/xx.gifRe: What’s wrong with being Catholic?
« Reply #117 on: Today at 11:08am »churchofchristdiscussions.com/YaBBImages/quote.gifQuote churchofchristdiscussions.com/YaBBImages/modify.gifModify Just to give you all a heads up, this thread is being talked about on a Catholic Answers Forum (forums.catholic-questions.org/index.php?), in a thread called Help! I’m being eaten alive by fundamentalists! (forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=473758#post473758). The thread over there was started by the same person who started this thread (heliumspark).

I have seen many people over there state they plan on posting something in THIS thread here.

---

Just saw that this was posted a little while ago (Feb. 21)

Heads up…they are expecting an invasion!

I feel blessed to be quoted like this. LOL!

I don’t know that anyone EXPECTS to be invaded. Just thought I would let them know. I do not know how long this has been going on.

 

[Super_B]

Church Militant:

hi Super B!
http://pages.prodigy.net/bestsmileys1/emoticons3/welcome1.gif

You’ll know me over on your forum as Vitam Aeternam and I appreciate that you guys have really been very charitable overall to our guys over there and I hope that we will do likewise with you here.

The object of my own postings there is not proselytizing or evangelism, but simply to share the truth about what Catholics really believe, as opposed to all the misrepresentations and misinformation that does circulate about us.

Certainly we have differences, but for heaven’s sake let us discuss the real ones and not the stuff we’ve heard about one another. Then we can at least understand what the other believes and MAYBE…learn something that will draw us closer to Our Lord.

Welcome and pax vobiscum,

I agree. Like I said, I do have several friends who are catholic.

 

[Lisa4Catholics]

michaelp:

Hey, what is the problem? I get swarmed over here all the time . . . it is kinda fun in a sick sort of way.

As a matter of fact, watch, I will get swarmed right now.

Hey all, you guys believe in sola ecclesia.

OK . . . RUN!!!

Please Michael You know we love you We are talking about fundis here Aside from marineboy when is the last time we told you that you were going to hell The Church of Christ is getting a room ready for us as we speak Oh, for you too,they don’t discriminate if you do not belong to them their logical conclusion is your going to hell.

 

[alh5184]

Wow! I’ve read all of this thread and some of the other thread and I am sadden by some of the misrepresentations on both sides. Whenever we discuss religious differences we should be very considerate of each other just as Paul tells us he was (Rom 8 I think)

First, let me say I am currently a member of a church of Christ considering converting to Catholism. However, when I begin studying it over a year ago I never thought that would be the case. There are many misrepresentations out there I had to overcome. I say this because I want those on the forum here that had bad experiences at the other message board to understand a few things about those who attend churches of Christ. (We here means church of Christ since I in someways still consider myself a member at this point though that may soon change)

1. We do not consider ourself a denomination, protestant or otherwise, so if you do not want to offend them do not use these terms even if you feel they are true.
2. We believe in the necesity of baptism for salvation not in faith only and we also believe you can loose your faith.
3. We use not authority outside the scriptures and those you will sometimes find differences among worship styles, etc. however in general the same beliefs exist. It is necessary to prove what you believe from scripture
4. Few church of Christ members hate the catholic church, but simply believe that it is a false church.
5. We believe in being called Christians only. We believe that only Jesus can add men to the church. This being said we do not believe in a visible, hierarchical church, but that each local congergation is autonomous. If you do not want to offend please do not use names such as Campbelites or church of christers
6. Most in a church of Christ know what they believe and believe it very strongly and you may find it extremely frustrating talking to them because they are very grounded. Remember we think we have the truth and just as you are unwilling to change to truth so are we.
7. Most of these are generalization and will only hold true some of the time. If you have any specific question about the church of Christ please ask, but as we have no offical doctrine outside scripture it may be difficult to answer.

Finally, all this is said simply to perhaps aliviate some misunderstandings on this side. Most of what I read on the other site seemed willing to defend their beliefs when ask it a nice way. Furthermore, please do not argue against any of these to me because I am not arguing for them I am simply stating what those in a church of Christ most likely believe. As I said I am already considering converting and do not need to be told why the church of Christ is incorrect. I hope this helps Catholics perhaps understand the other side and realize that most of what was being said on the other site was an attempt to defend what they percieve as truth and not out of dislike for Catholics.

Sorry this is so long.

ALH

 

[boppysbud]

ALH, you brought up not calling members of the “church of Christ” campbellites and church of Christers. Then what do we call them? I cannot in conscience call them “Christians” because they are not the only Christians. Likewise I cannot call them the “church of Christ” because they do not bythemselves only comprise Christ’s church.

I too was raised in this group, and converted to the Catholic church years ago.

I ahve just about reached the conclusion that there is nothing that I can call members of this group that will not offend them, or violate my conscience at the same time.

 

[Lisa4Catholics]

boppysbud:

ALH, you brought up not calling members of the “church of Christ” campbellites and church of Christers. Then what do we call them? I cannot in conscience call them “Christians” because they are not the only Christians. Likewise I cannot call them the “church of Christ” because they do not bythemselves only comprise Christ’s church.

I too was raised in this group, and converted to the Catholic church years ago.

I ahve just about reached the conclusion that there is nothing that I can call members of this group that will not offend them, or violate my conscience at the same time.

I grew up in the Church of Christ too,and what I said to Michael regarding them is first hand information.I am not being ugly just stating a fact.God Bless

 

[Lisa4Catholics]

WhatMeWorry:

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http://www.churchofchristdiscussions.com/YaBBImages/xx.gifRe: What’s wrong with being Catholic?
« Reply #117 on: Today at 11:08am »churchofchristdiscussions.com/YaBBImages/quote.gifQuote churchofchristdiscussions.com/YaBBImages/modify.gifModify Just to give you all a heads up, this thread is being talked about on a Catholic Answers Forum (forums.catholic-questions.org/index.php?), in a thread called Help! I’m being eaten alive by fundamentalists! (forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=473758#post473758). The thread over there was started by the same person who started this thread (heliumspark).

I have seen many people over there state they plan on posting something in THIS thread here.

---

Just saw that this was posted a little while ago (Feb. 21)

Heads up…they are expecting an invasion!

Well, maybe they will come over here too

 

[Blake002]

Nice thread, Maybe some of you could help me out in the “Non-Catholic Religion” forum under the thread “Need help with a non- Catholic friend on the Bible”.

 

[alh5184]

boppysbud:

ALH, you brought up not calling members of the “church of Christ” campbellites and church of Christers. Then what do we call them? I cannot in conscience call them “Christians” because they are not the only Christians. Likewise I cannot call them the “church of Christ” because they do not bythemselves only comprise Christ’s church.

I too was raised in this group, and converted to the Catholic church years ago.

I ahve just about reached the conclusion that there is nothing that I can call members of this group that will not offend them, or violate my conscience at the same time.

Personally I do not mind calling them christians, because even though they are not necessarily all christians, I do believe they are christians. However, I understand how this can lead to confusion. Personally I usually say as a member of a church of Christ (not the Chruch of Christ). This is the closest to the truth I think you can get without offending them. Of you can call them a Bible Only Christian to help distinguish between other Christians. Just some suggestioins

 

[Super_B]

Lisa4Catholics:

I grew up in the Church of Christ too,and what I said to Michael regarding them is first hand information.I am not being ugly just stating a fact.God Bless

Facts are dependant upon your perception of reality. Your perception in something is fact to you.

Half Full vs. Half Empty
Neither is incorrect, just depends on the POV of who is saying it.

I rarely get offended. I like to look at the context & try to determine the intent (which of coarse CAN be dificult on a message board).

 

[Church_Militant]

Super B:

Facts are dependant upon your perception of reality. Your perception in something is fact to you.

Half Full vs. Half Empty
Neither is incorrect, just depends on the POV of who is saying it.

I rarely get offended. I like to look at the context & try to determine the intent (which of coarse CAN be dificult on a message board).

to that Super B!
Pax vobiscum,

 

[Super_B]

alh5184:

Wow! I’ve read all of this thread and some of the other thread and I am sadden by some of the misrepresentations on both sides. Whenever we discuss religious differences we should be very considerate of each other just as Paul tells us he was (Rom 8 I think)

First, let me say I am currently a member of a church of Christ considering converting to Catholism. However, when I begin studying it over a year ago I never thought that would be the case. There are many misrepresentations out there I had to overcome. I say this because I want those on the forum here that had bad experiences at the other message board to understand a few things about those who attend churches of Christ. (We here means church of Christ since I in someways still consider myself a member at this point though that may soon change)

1. We do not consider ourself a denomination, protestant or otherwise, so if you do not want to offend them do not use these terms even if you feel they are true.
2. We believe in the necesity of baptism for salvation not in faith only and we also believe you can loose your faith.
3. We use not authority outside the scriptures and those you will sometimes find differences among worship styles, etc. however in general the same beliefs exist. It is necessary to prove what you believe from scripture
4. Few church of Christ members hate the catholic church, but simply believe that it is a false church.
5. We believe in being called Christians only. We believe that only Jesus can add men to the church. This being said we do not believe in a visible, hierarchical church, but that each local congergation is autonomous. If you do not want to offend please do not use names such as Campbelites or church of christers
6. Most in a church of Christ know what they believe and believe it very strongly and you may find it extremely frustrating talking to them because they are very grounded. Remember we think we have the truth and just as you are unwilling to change to truth so are we.
7. Most of these are generalization and will only hold true some of the time. If you have any specific question about the church of Christ please ask, but as we have no offical doctrine outside scripture it may be difficult to answer.

Finally, all this is said simply to perhaps aliviate some misunderstandings on this side. Most of what I read on the other site seemed willing to defend their beliefs when ask it a nice way. Furthermore, please do not argue against any of these to me because I am not arguing for them I am simply stating what those in a church of Christ most likely believe. As I said I am already considering converting and do not need to be told why the church of Christ is incorrect. I hope this helps Catholics perhaps understand the other side and realize that most of what was being said on the other site was an attempt to defend what they percieve as truth and not out of dislike for Catholics.

Sorry this is so long.

ALH

I would be curious about what has caused this consideration in your mind? Tell me, do you ever post on churchofchristdiscussions.com/yabb/YaBB.cgi?

I am sure there are lots of people there who would be interested in your story.

Let me say this. “All have sinned & fallen short of the glory of god.” I try to keep this in mind when I hear of “less than admirable” stories concerning catholic priest. I certainly do not believe all priest have those types of problems. I hope that non-christians (people who are not members of the church of christ), would not judge all members of the church of christ as being a certain way just because they have known certain people or groups of people (even entire congregations) who do not always do the right things (sin, make mistake, misrepresent the church of christ, etc…). I say this to you ALH, because sometimes we get discouraged by certain things that may go on that we do not agree with, or that do not seem right. The decision is yours. I pray you study the bible & pray about this long & hard before coming to a decision. I guarentee I have heard it all before. In fact, so have these fine people here (Catholics). No religion, denomination, cult etc… has kept every member. I know former Catholics, baptist, methodists, members of the church of christ who are now either not attending church anywhere or practicing any kind of faith, or are elsewhere (a different faith).

Good luck to you.

"You must do what you feel is right, of course." - Obi Wan Kenobi

 

[Lisa4Catholics]

Super B:

Facts are dependant upon your perception of reality. Your perception in something is fact to you.

Half Full vs. Half Empty
Neither is incorrect, just depends on the POV of who is saying it.

I rarely get offended. I like to look at the context & try to determine the intent (which of coarse CAN be dificult on a message board).

I can tell you what I was taught in the Church of Christ and what other posters were taught if it has changed its stance on being the only ones going to heaven,then you can surely let me in on their recant

 

[Super_B]

Lisa4Catholics:

I can tell you what I was taught in the Church of Christ and what other posters were taught if it has changed its stance on being the only ones going to heaven,then you can surely let me in on their recant

Aw yes, the ole, “The church of christ believes they are the only ones who are going to heaven” argument.

Of coarse I can’t speak for eveyone, but I believe that God & God alone will be the judge on judgement day. Personally, I believe grace saves. I do not know to what extent grace saves. I do think the above belief is a misconception. I think most New Testament Christians (“church of christers”) probably think as I do, that GOD will be the only judge. To say **unequivicly **that the church of christ are the only ones going to heaven is simply an ignorant statement & if you have run into members of the church of christ who have actually said those very words to you, I think they are wrong.

Personally, I’ll plead ignorance on that one.

 

[martino]

Superboy, I may have missed it but I never saw your response to this post.

martino:

Do not try to handle more than one topic at a time. That is a common tactic that has been used against me, they keep throwing out issues before you have settled the one you were on. The reason they do this is because they have no answer for the Catholic response that is given to thier initial objection.

On the first topic regarding “call no man father”, just quote the Apostle Paul, “For though you have countless guides in Christ, you do not have many fathers. For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel.” 1Cor 4:15. This completely obliterates their entire argument, but i wouldn’t go on to the next topic until they answer for this one. The fact is there is no answer unless St.Paul was mistaken and commited a sin and then erroneously recorded his sin as Scripture, which would then render Scripture no longer inerrant! My what a tangled web they weave!!!

Isn’t it funny that after all these years they still don’t get it!

Do you believe Catholics are wrong to refer to our priest as “father”? If so, how do you reconcile the verse above, or even calling your bioligical father, “father”?

 

[Lisa4Catholics]

Super B:

Aw yes, the ole, “The church of christ believes they are the only ones who are going to heaven” argument.

Of coarse I can’t speak for eveyone, but I believe that God & God alone will be the judge on judgement day. Personally, I believe grace saves. I do not know to what extent grace saves. I do think the above belief is a misconception. I think most New Testament Christians (“church of christers”) probably think as I do, that GOD will be the only judge. To say **unequivicly **that the church of christ are the only ones going to heaven is simply an ignorant statement & if you have run into members of the church of christ who have actually said those very words to you, I think they are wrong.

Personally, I’ll plead ignorance on that one.

I am the “black sheep” of my family before my dad and my grandma died they said I was going to hell and taking my children with me I am from Tennessee and this is what the preachers preach,it is quite sad,Catholics feel like you do about God being the Judge,because we can not see into the heart of a man or women.God Bless and I am glad you all do not believe that way

 

[Super_B]

Superboy, I may have missed it but I never saw your response to this post.

martino:

Do not try to handle more than one topic at a time. That is a common tactic that has been used against me, they keep throwing out issues before you have settled the one you were on. The reason they do this is because they have no answer for the Catholic response that is given to thier initial objection.

On the first topic regarding “call no man father”, just quote the Apostle Paul, "For though you have countless guides in Christ, you do not have many father

s. For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel." 1Cor 4:15. This completely obliterates their entire argument, but i wouldn’t go on to the next topic until they answer for this one. The fact is there is no answer unless St.Paul was mistaken and commited a sin and then erroneously recorded his sin as Scripture, which would then render Scripture no longer inerrant! My what a tangled web they weave!!!

Isn’t it funny that after all these years they still don’t get it!
Do you believe Catholics are wrong to refer to our priest as “father”? If so, how do you reconcile the verse above, or even calling your bioligical father, “father”?

Sorry, I have been gone for a while. I did try to get here to post a response, but the site was down for some period.

The “B” in “Super B” does NOT stand for boy, thank you.

For one thing, Paul says “…For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel.”, but does not command, advise, suggest, require, or in anyway state that it is OK to be called Father. Nor does he state in anyway, that he should be called Father. He refers to Timothy as his son (NIV I Corinthians 4:17: “17For this reason I am sending to you Timothy, my son whom I love, who is faithful in the Lord. He will remind you of my way of life in Christ Jesus, which agrees with what I teach everywhere in every church.”), & of course Timothy was not actually Pauls son in a physical sense.

Another thing, Jesus says in Matthew 23, “9And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.”. Jesus was speaking about the Pharisees & how they love to be seen & like to appear in important places of honor.

So I ask you, was Paul saying Jesus was wrong? Did Jesus somehow mis-speak? Did Jesus NOT mean what he said? Should we read into a comment by Paul that it is OK to CALL a man Father, & assume Jesus meant something other than what he said? I believe this is how we have come to have so many different “denominations”, because people want to interpret a statement made in the Bible as meaning something other than what was actually said.

No one on Earth is perfect. No one on Earth can trully comprehend & understand all the mysteries of God. God gave us his word (the bible) as a “handbook” for life. We New Testament Christians MAY be wrong about some things, but it is not from lack of studying or mis-interpreting what the word of God says. We take Gods word at face value & do not add to or take away from. So for me, Jesus states “call no man Father”, & that is what I will believe.

 

[Super_B]

Well, what do you think?

 

[MariaG]

posted by Super B

Well, what do you think?

I think you are wrong.

So I ask you, was Paul saying Jesus was wrong?

No.

Did Jesus somehow mis-speak?

No.

Did Jesus NOT mean what he said?

No.

Should we read into a comment by Paul that it is OK to CALL a man Father, & assume Jesus meant something other than what he said?

Loaded question. Yes we know that Paul meant it is okay. We do not have to read into it, but through Sacred Tradition, we understand what Jesus said. You still sidestepped the Scripture. Paul said he became their father. Yes it was through Christ but still his father.

Have you read this? catholic.com/library/Call_No_Man_Father.asp

I believe this is how we have come to have so many different “denominations”, because people want to interpret a statement made in the Bible as meaning something other than what was actually said.

I agree. The problem here is applying this to the Catholic Church. There was no Bible for people to privately interpret. Yet people still called others Father. Paul referred to himself as Father.

No one on Earth is perfect. No one on Earth can trully comprehend & understand all the mysteries of God. God gave us his word (the bible) as a “handbook” for life.

He gave His people a living Church. If a person is only a Christian who had a handbook, then were there no Christians before the printing press? Before Christians even decided what would be the Bible? How did someone become a Christian before the “handbook” was written?

We New Testament Christians MAY be wrong about some things, but it is not from lack of studying or mis-interpreting what the word of God says. We take Gods word at face value & do not add to or take away from. So for me, Jesus states “call no man Father”, & that is what I will believe.

Then you must believe in the real presence of Christ? And confession to others for forgiveness of sins? If not I would sincerely like to know why when the clear words of Christ indicate both.

God Bless,
Maria