Help! I'm trapped in the Twilight Zone! PA says "respect choice."

[Agnes]

Deacon Bob:

.
I’ve attached that homily slightly edited for length. You guys tell me - was I out of line?

Deacon Bob, I read your homily and found it excellent. You were brilliant to give some history and explain about anti-Catholic prejudice. You gave a good overview of ideas to get people’s interest. You explained the difference between personal accounting for communion and the Kerry situation. Or Daschle, or Pelosi, or Kennedy…all the same thing.

But I would add it is not merely the fact that they make public statements supporting abortion, in direct opposition to church teaching, but also use POLITICAL POWER and TAX DOLLARS to kill those thousands of babies. A very heavy burden is on their souls – and on that of any priest who would desecrate the Blessed Sacrament by letting it touch the hands of ones so defiled.

 

[BryanW]

God Bless you all that Love your Church. I’ll pray.

 

[tcaseyrochester]

Deacon Bob:

Those five also contacted the pastor, who then reamed me out and threatened to remove me from the preaching rotation if I discussed “controversial” (read “conservative”) topics in my homilies. He said that we have to be “pastoral” (read "wishy-washy) and that we have to minister to everyone. (Read here, “don’t upset the liberals”)

I loved your homily Deacon Bob, right on target! I wonder how much $$ the “five” put in the basket each week to have that much pull?

I hope your next homily will be just as “controversial” as the one you shared with us is. If you are taken out of the rotation, go to the Bishop!

 

[Keith_Barrett]

I would like to offer my insights as an outsider to the American situation (I live in South Africa). I must say that I have a great deal of sympathy for what you are going through, and understand your shock and despondency when even the clergy, those whom you would expect to uphold the truth, not undermine it, support these immoral stands.

Firstly, I would like to suggest that you take a look at St. Paul’s first letter to the Corinthians. This letter is addressed to the believers in a community whose similarities to American society and the problems it faces are quite striking. I feel that if you read this letter as if it were addressed to you personally, you will derive great spiritual benefit from it. What really stands out for me is Ch 1:18-20 (excuse the old translation, I got it from the Webster’s version):

For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish, foolishness; but to us who are saved, it is the power of God. For it is written, “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent”.
Where [is] the wise? Where [is] the scribe? Where [is] the disputer of this world? Hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?

The wisdom of the world seems to tell us that not only should the causes of suffering be eradicated completely, but suffering itself should be eradicated at any cost. If you add to this the fact that modern society looks to wealth and convenience as the pinnacle of good living, it is not a very long road for some people to travel to a destination where Jesus, and all He stands for, is irrelevant. And when God is irrelevant, then Man can take life and death in his own hands and do with it what he will.

So the church in the modern world has to deal with issues like abortion, euthenasia, capital punishment and just wars. As you can see from these issues, people in opposing camps on one issue might find themselves fighting side by side on another. This is why I would caution anyone against putting a political label on a moral stand. I am not advocating that we as Catholics should stay away from political issues. If we in South Africa had done that, as many within the Church here suggested, we might still be living under Apartheid. I am saying that we should use our language of faith to fight these battles, so that we don’t undermine our own arguments by using secular terms of reference.

I would also caution you not to fall into the trap of avoiding suffering at all costs. Stay in your parish and fight the good fight. It is hard, but the way of the cross is hard. The wonderful thing about this suffering of yours is that, since the church is the body of Christ, you will be suffering for Jesus, just as He once suffered for you. You can only grow closer to Him through your experiences. Remember John 14:6, where Jesus said, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life: no man cometh to the Father, but by me.”

I hope that, despite my sermonising, my comments will be of some help to you.

 

[SPOKENWORD]

Peg:

Spokenword, I too pray for the union of all christians. I am thankful for your love of Jesus and your willingness to follow Him. I too want to give Him my all.

Were do you find this idea of everyone being given the keys. From my reading of the Word, Jesus gave the keys to Peter. Jesus gave all the apostles to power to bind and loose but only gave the keys to Peter. When were the keys passes out?

It is not consistent with the type of “keys” Isaiah 22:15-25 and even before that when Pharoah gave Joseph power over his house. Genesis 41:39-40 "So Pharoah said to Joseph, “Since God has shown you all this, there is none so discreet and wise as you are; you shall be over my house, and all my people shall order themselves as you command; only as regards to the throne will I be greater than you.”

As Catholics, we read the old with the new. Can you show any instance in the OT were they were told to share authority. Moses is a type of Jesus and shares his authority only with the 70 That is why 70 as used in the NT.

PEG. Dont you see that Jesus Christ are those keys. It is symbolic.keys]. Without Jesus Christ dying for us the kingdom of heaven was locked up. I have one of those keys and it was passed on down beginning with Peter ,and then the appostles,and then us. Would you like one of those keys? It will set you free from the chains and bondage of satan.P/S I dont mean you in particular. They are for all christians not for Peter to hold on to. Jesus [key] gives me the power to loose and bind satan in the His name. Do I make any sense? Love in Christ

 

[goat]

tcaseyrochester:

In our June 6th weekly parish newsletter, our Pastorial Associate followed this up with an admonition to us

I suppose this is a dumb question, but just what exactly is a “Pastoral Associate?” Is that kind of like a priestess-lite?

 

[NWUArmyROTC]

goat:

I suppose this is a dumb question, but just what exactly is a “Pastoral Associate?” Is that kind of like a priestess-lite?

I like that, I like that. That’s my new term for the PA.

 

[NWUArmyROTC]

SPOKENWORD:

PEG. Dont you see that Jesus Christ are those keys. It is symbolic.keys]. Without Jesus Christ dying for us the kingdom of heaven was locked up. I have one of those keys and it was passed on down beginning with Peter ,and then the appostles,and then us. Would you like one of those keys? It will set you free from the chains and bondage of satan.P/S I dont mean you in particular. They are for all christians not for Peter to hold on to. Jesus [key] gives me the power to loose and bind satan in the His name. Do I make any sense? Love in Christ

If you don’t mind my asking, are you Catholic?

Matthew 16:18 is spoken directly to Peter. When Paul appeals to Peter to allow him to continue preaching to the Gentiles, he is appealing to Peter because Peter has the ability to make that type of decision.

 

[Kotton]

Deacon Bob:

Believe me, it’s tough on the other side of the ambo, too! In April, after Senator Kerry decided to host his own pro abortion rally in DC, my homily discussed, in no uncertain terms, the issue of “Catholics” who publicly and persistently sin and their right to receive Holy Communion.

Sounds very similar to my brother’s (also a deacon) homily about the same time. One couple (active Democrat supporters) wrote the bishop complaining that the parish was promoting Rebublican issues. The pastor supported him, don’t know if the bishop responded. The couple moved to another parish.

I consider myself simply a minister of the Gospel, proclaiming the word and telling it like it is. And I think that reminding EVERYONE of their responsibilities as Catholics IS ministering to everyone!
I’m waiting for another opportunity to explain Church teaching on one of these issues. It’ll be interesting what happens! :
I’ve attached that homily slightly edited for length. You guys tell me - was I out of line?

Proclaiming the TRUTH will always be uncomfortable to some. I pray you have the courage to go forth with God’s word.

Kotton

 

[SPOKENWORD]

NWUArmyROTC:

If you don’t mind my asking, are you Catholic?

Matthew 16:18 is spoken directly to Peter. When Paul appeals to Peter to allow him to continue preaching to the Gentiles, he is appealing to Peter because Peter has the ability to make that type of decision.

I am not roman catholic[was for over 35 years] I am catholic [universal]. Yes Jesus was speaking to Peter directly. Peter was the one whom Jesus called on to distribute those keys. If he wanted Peter to hold onto them[keys] Jesus would have given Peter only one key,but Jesus gave him many keys. They were to be distributed to the Body of Christ, so that we all could come into the Kingdom. Yes Peter was the leader and we are his followers[flock] We are one body, one spirit,one faith, one baptism, one Lord,one God and Father,and one hope who is over all, and works through all,and is in all. God Bless. …

 

[NWUArmyROTC]

SPOKENWORD:

I am not roman catholic[was for over 35 years] I am catholic [universal]. Yes Jesus was speaking to Peter directly. Peter was the one whom Jesus called on to distribute those keys. If he wanted Peter to hold onto them[keys] Jesus would have given Peter only one key,but Jesus gave him many keys. They were to be distributed to the Body of Christ, so that we all could come into the Kingdom. Yes Peter was the leader and we are his followers[flock] We are one body, one spirit,one faith, one baptism, one Lord,one God and Father,and one hope who is over all, and works through all,and is in all. God Bless. …

Where do you find Peter distributing the keys to every believer?

“You are Peter and upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”

No where does Jesus tell Peter to distribute the keys so that everyone can interpret and have faith as they will.

 

[SPOKENWORD]

NWUArmyROTC:

Where do you find Peter distributing the keys to every believer?

“You are Peter and upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”

No where does Jesus tell Peter to distribute the keys so that everyone can interpret and have faith as they will.

Jesus doesnt say that Peter is the rock. It is Jesus who is the Rock. Jesus are those keys… Jesus unlocks the gates.,not Peter. So What you are saying is that Peter did not go on to establish the church of Jesus Christ.What was Peter and his appostles distributing? Was it not the Keys to the Kingdom of Heaven? Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior. God Bless.

 

[NWUArmyROTC]

SPOKENWORD:

Jesus doesnt say that Peter is the rock. It is Jesus who is the Rock. Jesus are those keys… Jesus unlocks the gates.,not Peter. So What you are saying is that Peter did not go on to establish the church of Jesus Christ.What was Peter and his appostles distributing? Was it not the Keys to the Kingdom of Heaven? Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior. God Bless.

So, what you are saying, is that every Christian is their own authority, is that right?

 

[goat]

NWUArmyROTC:

I like that, I like that. That’s my new term for the PA.

But, seriously…I am unfamiliar with this “position.” Never encountered one of these so-called “Pastoral Associates.”

I found this on a diocese’s web site:

A pastoral associate is a qualified pastoral minister who shares in the leadership of the parish in association with the canonical pastor.

Still doesn’t tell me a whole lot. Sounds kinda like an end run around the structure of the Church. How can a layman “share in the leadership of the parish?” That’s what we have priests for, or so I thought.

 

[SPOKENWORD]

No, that is not what I am saying.This authority comes from Jesus Christ. Peter in himself can do nothing without the keys. Why would Peter hold the keys and not distribute them? Was it Peter who would stand at the gate and make the decision who was saved and who was not. God is the almighty judge,only he can through his Son Jesus Christ.Why would Jesus give Peter the keys to hold onto when a few verses down in Matt.16 vs 23. Jesus calls Peter satan. Is satan working for the kingdom of Heaven.? Peter is not the key,Jesus is. . GOD BLESS.

 

[system]

tcaseyrochester:

In a recent thread, I shared with you the views of our Pastor regarding the abortion issue (forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=1230).

In our June 6th weekly parish newsletter, our Pastorial Associate followed this up with an admonition to us “fundamentalists” to “respect choice” on life issues (when this column becomes available electronically I will add it to this thread). My initial reaction was to send her an email to ask for clarification on her use of the word “choice” (actually my initial reaction was to tell my wife I have had it and we are changing parishes, but I calmed down and am continuing to fight for MY parish.) I have yet to receive a reply.

In the same column she goes on about how the Church used to call God “mother” and that “change is messy” and we “usually” achieve change through disobedience of Rome. The entire column was sort of a heredoxical buffet this week. I suspect it may have been in response to outrage at the Pastor’s column cited above.

I will contact the Bishop, but I am convinced it will be a waste of time. Sometimes I think I live in the most theologically challenged diocese in the country.

As Catholics, we are called to “hate the sin but love the sinner.” But “respect choice???” I feel like I am in a bad episode of the Twilight Zone, when I find myself arguing for pro-life issues with a priest and a PA :banghead: .

On another thread they were talking about smoking being bad for the body,and our bodies being the temple of the Holy Spirit.
CHOICE, :nope: Oh !! no, what choice does the baby have ? none at all, poor thing being ripped from the body:tsktsk: it is a Mortal sin, and it’s bad enough without Churchmen talking about choice.
YES our bodies are the Temple of the Holy Spirit, freewill is indeed a gift from God, it’s abused but we have to accept the consequences of freewill.
Saying choice is sitting on the fence, what is the difference in killing a 9 month old born baby, and killing a 7 or 8 month old baby with a beating heart, that some evil doc has decided to stop the babys heart for all time.
To kill the born baby you might do life in prison, or get the chair, but it’s ok to kill those other poor innocents just because they are on the inside, I for one will never go a long with it. Abortion is MURDER !!!

 

[Michael_C]

Deacon Bob:

Believe me, it’s tough on the other side of the ambo, too! In April, after Senator Kerry decided to host his own pro abortion rally in DC, my homily discussed, in no uncertain terms, the issue of “Catholics” who publicly and persistently sin and their right to receive Holy Communion. The aftermath was interesting, with the vast majority of the parishioners’ comments VERY positive, and a very few (four or five who contacted me) coming down on the liberal side of things.My email conversations that week were quite heated, believe me!
Those five also contacted the pastor, who then reamed me out and threatened to remove me from the preaching rotation if I discussed “controversial” (read “conservative”) topics in my homilies. He said that we have to be “pastoral” (read "wishy-washy) and that we have to minister to everyone. (Read here, “don’t upset the liberals”)
I consider myself simply a minister of the Gospel, proclaiming the word and telling it like it is. And I think that reminding EVERYONE of their responsibilities as Catholics IS ministering to everyone!
I’m waiting for another opportunity to explain Church teaching on one of these issues. It’ll be interesting what happens! :
I’ve attached that homily slightly edited for length. You guys tell me - was I out of line?

 

[Michael_C]

Deacon Bob, Your fighting the old enemy…money and politics. be strong and stand up for the truth.

 

[Agnes]

Kotton:

Proclaiming the TRUTH will always be uncomfortable to some. I pray you have the courage to go forth with God’s word.

Kotton

The TRUTH is very hard to proclaim, to believe, or to get others to believe. Our parish priest (a brilliant, old-fashioned, real Catholic) made the point that even truth at the secular level tends to be rejected automatically, because it makes people uncomfortable. He gave as examples great men who told the truth and were ridiculed at the time: Copernicus, Braille, Pasteur, Dostoeveksy, Solzyenitzen, etc. I suppose one could add Ronald Reagan to the list!

He said adherence to moral truth, and devotion to piety, and acceptance of the Mysteries of God, may cause us to be rejected and this is “the high cost of being Catholic” and perhaps of salvation.

 

[krazykatlady]

You need to receive nourishment for your own soul and protect your children. If such erroneous teaching is going on I wonder if valid sacraments are being offered?