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Jerry_Marino
Guest
the sacrifice we offer
- Status
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baddog
Guest
Jerry Marino;4965827:
yesterday, i went to a memorial service at a catholic church and the words of the priest were not diced in any form. so you could cut any kind of way you’d like what the church teaches is that of a sacrifice in the eucharist.
Seems another Protestant is telling us Catholics what we believe.
J
Jerry_Marino
Guest
what are we talking about here in John 6, why would i post on something else other that the eucharist, i’m telling you what you believe your church is through the catechism and the words of the priest.
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baddog
Guest
Rev. 1 to 22 - Jesus is described as the “Lamb” 28 times in the book of Revelation. This is because Jesus emphasizes His sacrifice in heaven and in His Holy Catholic Church.
Rev. 1:13 - Jesus is clothed in heaven with a long robe and golden girdle like the Old Testament priests who offered animal sacrifices. See Exodus 28:4.
Rev. 2:17 - the spiritual manna, our Lord’s glorious body and blood, is emphasized in the heavenly feast.
Rev. 3:20 - as Priest and Paschal Lamb, our Lord shares the Eucharistic meal with us to seal His New Covenant. Through the covenant of his body and blood, we are restored to the Father and become partakers of the divine nature.
Rev. 5:6 - this verse tells us that Jesus in His glory still looks like a lamb who was slain. Also, Jesus is “standing” as though a Lamb who was slain. Lambs that are slain lie down. This odd depiction shows Jesus stands at the Altar as our eternal priest in forever offering Himself to the Father for our salvation.
Rev. 7:14 - the blood of the Lamb is eternally offered in heaven with the washing of the robes to make them white.
Rev. 14:1, Heb. 12:22 - Zion is the city where Jesus established the Eucharist and which was miraculously preserved after the destruction of Jerusalem. See also Psalms 2:6 and 132:13. It represents the union of heaven and earth, of divinity and humanity. This is why those who enter into the Eucharistic celebration on earth enter into the presence of innumerable angels, the souls of the just made perfect, Jesus the Mediator of the Covenant and His sprinkled blood, and God the Judge of all.
Rev. 19:13 - in all His glory, Jesus’ sacrifice is eternally present as He presents Himself to the Father clothed in a robe dipped in blood. Jesus’ sacrifice is the focus in heaven and in the Mass. When the Father beholds His Son, He beholds His sacrifice for humanity.
Rev. 19:9 - we are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb where we become one with Him by consuming His body and blood. This is the nuptial union of divinity and humanity.
Heb. 2:17; 3:1; 4:14; 8:1; 9:11,25; 10:19,22 - Jesus is repeatedly described as “High Priest.” But in order to be a priest, “it is necessary for [Jesus] to have something to offer.” Heb. 8:3. This is the offering of the eternal sacrifice of His body and blood to the Father.
Heb. 2:18 - although His suffering is past tense, His expiation of our sins is present tense because His offering is continual. Therefore, He is able (present tense) to help those who are tempted.
Heb. 5:6,10; 6:20; 7:15,17 - these verses show that Jesus restores the father-son priesthood after Melchizedek. Jesus is the new priest and King of Jerusalem and feeds the new children of Abraham with His body and blood. This means that His eternal sacrifice is offered in the same manner as the bread and wine offered by Melchizedek in Gen. 14:18. But the bread and wine that Jesus offers is different, just as the Passover Lamb of the New Covenant is different. The bread and wine become His body and blood by the overshadowing of the Holy Spirit.
Heb. 4:3 – God’s works were finished from the foundation of the world. This means that God’s works, including Christ’s sacrifice (the single act that secured the redemption of our souls and bodies), are forever present in eternity. Jesus’ suffering is over and done with (because suffering was earthly and temporal), but His sacrifice is eternal, because His priesthood is eternal (His victimized state was only temporal).
Heb. 4:14 – Jesus the Sacrifice passes through the heavens by the glory cloud of God, just like the sacrifices of Solomon were taken up into heaven by the glory cloud of God in 2 Chron. 7:1. See also Mark 16:19; Luke 24:51; and Acts 1:10.
Heb. 7:24 – Jesus holds His priesthood is forever because He continues forever, so His sacrificial offering is forever. He continues to offer His body and blood to us because He is forever our High Priest.
Heb. 8:2 - Jesus is a minister in the sanctuary offering up (present tense) His eternal sacrifice to the Father which is perfected in heaven. This is the same sanctuary that we enter with confidence by the blood of Jesus as written in Heb. 10:19. See also Heb. 12:22-24.
Heb. 8:3 - as High Priest, it is necessary for Jesus to have something to offer. What is Jesus offering in heaven? As eternal Priest, He offers the eternal sacrifice of His body and blood.
Heb. 8:6; 9:15; cf. Heb. 12:22-24; 13:20-21 - the covenant Jesus mediates (present tense) is better than the Old covenant. The covenant He mediates is the covenant of His body and blood which He offers in the Eucharist. See Matt. 26:26-28; Mark. 14:22,24; Luke 22;19-20; 1 Cor. 11:24-25 - which is the only time Jesus uses the word “covenant” (which is the offering of His body and blood).
Heb. 9:12 – Jesus enters into heaven, the Holy Place, taking His own blood. How can this be? He wasn’t bleeding after the resurrection. This is because He enters into the heavenly sanctuary to mediate the covenant of His body and blood by eternally offering it to the Father. This offering is made present to us in the same manner as Melchizedek’s offering, under the appearance of bread and wine.
Heb. 9:14 - the blood of Christ offered in heaven purifies (present tense) our consciences from dead works to serve the living God. Christ’s offering is ongoing.
Heb. 9:22 – blood is indeed required for the remission of sin. Jesus’ blood was shed once, but it is continually offered to the Father. This is why Jesus takes His blood, which was shed once and for all, into heaven. Heb. 9:12.
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baddog
Guest
Heb. 9:23 – Jesus’ sacrifice, which is presented eternally to the Father in heaven, is described as “sacrifices” (in the plural) in the context of its re-presentation on earth (the author first writes about the earthly sacrifices of animals, and then the earthly offerings of Jesus Christ’s eternal sacrifice).
Heb. 9:26 – Jesus’ once and for all appearance into heaven to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself shows that Jesus’ presence in heaven and His sacrifice are inseparable. This also shows that “once for all,” which refers to Jesus’ appearance in heaven, means perpetual (it does not, and cannot mean, “over and done with” because Jesus is in heaven for eternity). “Once for all” also refers to Jesus’ suffering and death (Heb. 7:27; 9:12,26;10:10-14). But “once for all” never refers to Jesus’ sacrifice, which is eternally presented to the Father. This sacrifice is the Mal. 1:11 pure offering made present in every place from the rising of the sun to its setting in the Eucharist offered in the same manner as the Melchizedek offering.
Heb. 10:19 - we have confidence to enter the sanctuary by the blood of Jesus on earth in the Eucharistic liturgy, which is the heavenly sanctuary where Jesus’ offering is presented to God in Heb. 8:2.
Heb. 10:22 - our hearts and bodies are (not were) washed clean by the action of Jesus’ perpetual priesthood in heaven.
Heb. 13:10 – the author writes that we have an altar from which those who serve the tent have no right to eat. This altar is the heavenly altar at which Jesus presides as Priest before the Father, eternally offering His body and blood on our behalf. See. Mal. 1:7,12; Lev. 24:7; Ez. 41:22; 44:16; Rev. 5:6; 6:9; 9:13; 11:1; 16:7.
Heb. 13:20-21 - Jesus died once, but His blood of the eternal covenant is eternally offered to equip us (present tense) with everything good that we may do God’s will.
Heb. 13:8 - this is because Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever. While His suffering was temporal (because bodily pain is temporal), Jesus and His sacrifice are eternal (because redemption, salvation, and the mediation of the New covenant are eternal).
Heb. 13:15 – the letter concludes with an instruction to continually offer up, through Christ, a sacrifice of praise to God. The phrase “sacrifice of praise” refers to the “toda” animal sacrifices that had to be consumed. See, for example, Lev. 7:12-15; 22:29-30.
1 Pet. 2:9; Rev. 20:6 - we are a royal priesthood in Jesus, and offer His sacrifice to the Father on earth as He does in heaven.
1 John 1:7 - the blood of Jesus cleanses us (present tense) from all sin. His blood cannot currently cleanse us unless it is currently offered for us.
E
elvisman
Guest
Jerry -
**I have had dialog with you on another thread and I’ve read your posts on this thread. You completely ignored **baddog’s post #31. This is a tactic that I have seen from many Protestants on this board - jab-and-move but never answer when the responses are too tough.
**What you are failing to address is that Christ’s sacrifice is eternal - just as Heaven is eternal. You have been shown - with Scripture - that his sacrifice is eternal yet you continue to sound off the usual Protestant objection about preaching the resurrected Lord. **
This is why most Protestants object to Crucifixes as well and place the resurrected Lord on a cross. Sorry, but that ain’t the way it happened. He suffered and died. We are saved by His DEATH. The resurrection was proof of this but his DEATH is what saves us.
1 Cor. 1:23 speaks so clearly about the lack of faith displayed by Protestants when Paul says:
"But we proclaim Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles".
That’s why Protestants will never truly understand passages like 1 Cor 11:26 which tells us:
"For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the death of the Lord until he comes."
J
Jerry_Marino
Guest
i proclaim Christ crucified, my friend, i am always pointing the Cross of Christ cause it is there, my friend we have forgiveness of our sins and i will keep on pointing to the Cross while you all try to talk about the bread of life, i partake in the LORD’S supper as remembrance of what he did for me on the Cross, again it always comes back to the Cross and if anyone has not gone to the Cross of Jesus Christ with a broken down spirit and ask for forgiveness of their sins and repented and trusted totally on Christ, that person is not saved. now all this other stuff we talk about is meaningless to the unbeliever as you and i and others bicker about differences some poor lost soul may be sitting on the sidelines reading and saying this is Christianity! so i let you all post about what you believe and i’ll continue to point to the Cross.
God bless you
ps i am flattered that you follow me around plz stop you know there is a stalking law you know.
God bless you
ps i am flattered that you follow me around plz stop you know there is a stalking law you know.
E
elvisman
Guest
Then why do you dodge the tough questions/answers? The scriptural proof of Jesus’ eternal sacrifice has been shown to you.i proclaim Christ crucified, my friend, i am always pointing the Cross of Christ cause it is there, my friend we have forgiveness of our sins and i will keep on pointing to the Cross while you all try to talk about the bread of life, i partake in the LORD’S supper as remembrance of what he did for me on the Cross, again it always comes back to the Cross and if anyone has not gone to the Cross of Jesus Christ with a broken down spirit and ask for forgiveness of their sins and repented and trusted totally on Christ, that person is not saved. now all this other stuff we talk about is meaningless to the unbeliever as you and i and others bicker about differences some poor lost soul may be sitting on the sidelines reading and saying this is Christianity! so i let you all post about what you believe and i’ll continue to point to the Cross.
God bless you
ps i am flattered that you follow me around plz stop you know there is a stalking law you know.
Ummm . . . as for the Lord’s Supper - sorry, but you don’t partake. You partake in a pretend version of it because you reject the very essence of it.
PS - Not following - I just like to stamp out anti-Catholic ignorance wherever I see it, friend.
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baddog
Guest
Roman Catholic Christians take the word of God seriously and seek to remember Christ in the Last Supper “as often as” possible. And in doing this proclaim the death of the Lord until he comes.i proclaim Christ crucified, my friend, i am always pointing the Cross of Christ cause it is there, my friend we have forgiveness of our sins and i will keep on pointing to the Cross while you all try to talk about the bread of life, i partake in the LORD’S supper as remembrance of what he did for me on the Cross, again it always comes back to the Cross and if anyone has not gone to the Cross of Jesus Christ with a broken down spirit and ask for forgiveness of their sins and repented and trusted totally on Christ, that person is not saved. now all this other stuff we talk about is meaningless to the unbeliever as you and i and others bicker about differences some poor lost soul may be sitting on the sidelines reading and saying this is Christianity! so i let you all post about what you believe and i’ll continue to point to the Cross.
God bless you
ps i am flattered that you follow me around plz stop you know there is a stalking law you know.
1 Cor 11:24-26
“This is my body that is for you. Do this in remembrance of me.” In the same way also the cup, after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.” For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the death of the Lord until he comes.
Lk 22:19
“This is my body, which will be given for you; do this in memory of me.”
Catholic Christians also believe that there is only one sacrifice, Jesus’, but following the command “as often as” to proclaim the death of the Lord, the sacrifice of Christ is made physically present to every Christian in all places in every age. The Eucharist makes the atemporal aphysical actions of Christ’s redeeming action truly present to us always and everywhere. This is incarnational.
Following the word of God, Catholics also know that Christ is not and cannot be resacrificed. This has never been the teaching of the Catholic Church.
Heb 10:12
But this one (Jesus) offered one sacrifice for sins …
Heb 7:27
He has no need, as did the high priests, to offer sacrifice day after day, first for his own sins and then for those of the people; he did that once for all when he offered himself.
Heb 9:25-28
Not that he might offer himself repeatedly … But now once for all he has appeared at the end of the ages to take away sin by his sacrifice. … Christ, offered once to take away the sins of many …
The constant faith of the Church from the Apostolic Fathers attests to the fact that the Mass was the one Sacrifice of Calvary made present to the faithful.
Cyprian (Carthage, 200-258), Letters, No 63:9 (To Caecilian)
In which portion we find that the cup which the Lord offered was mixed, and that that was wine He called His Blood. Whence it appears that the blood of Christ is not offered if there be no wine in the cup, nor the Lord’s sacrifice celebrated with a legitimate consecration unless our oblation and sacrifice respond to His passion.
The 1994 Catechism of the Catholic Church makes this statement explicitly.
Catechism Section 1085
In the Liturgy of the Church, it is principally his own Paschal mystery that Christ signifies and makes present. During his earthly life Jesus announced his Paschal mystery by his teachings and anticipated it by his actions. When his Hour comes, he lives out the unique event of history which does not pass away: Jesus dies, is buried, rises from the dead, and is seated at the right hand of the Father “once for all.” His Paschal mystery is a real event that occurred in our history, but it is unique: all other historical events happen once, and then they pass away, swallowed up in the past. The Paschal mystery of Christ, by contrast, cannot remain only in the past, because by his death he destroyed death, and all that Christ is – all that he did and suffered for all people – participates in the divine eternity, and so transcends all times while being made present in them all. The event of the Cross and Resurrection abides and draws everything toward life.
Catechism Section 1104
Christian liturgy not only recalls the events that saved us but actualizes them, makes them present. The Paschal mystery of Christ is celebrated, not repeated. It is the celebrations that are repeated, and in each celebration there is an outpouring of the Holy Spirit that makes the unique mystery present.
R
Randy_Carson
Guest
Perhaps this will help:
Symbolism and Reality in John 6
Taken from Not By Bread Alone by Robert Sungenis (pp. 172-176)
Here is where we need to introduce some important distinctions. Notice that so far in the narrative (John 1:1-47), Jesus has not mentioned the words, “eat,” “drink,” “flesh,” or “blood.” He only says that He is the bread from heaven; the bread of life; and that He came down from heaven to do the will of the Father. Jesus does not use the word, “eat” until verse 50, “flesh” until verse 51, “blood” until verse 53, and “drink” until verse 53. In fact, when Jesus says, “he who believes in me will never be thirsty” (verse 35), the metaphor leads us to think of drinking water, but certainly not of drinking blood. Thus far the Jews are not grumbling about the metaphors “hungry” and “thirsty.” Jesus, at least in this section, is focusing strictly on getting them to believe that He is sent from the Father, yet the people are just not comprehending.
To explain the enigma of unbelief, Jesus begins in verse 37 to make us aware that the Father has not “given” these people to Him. This revelation becomes a continuous thread throughout the discourse, occurring again in verses 44-45 (“no one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him…”) and 64-65 (“…no one can come to me unless it has been given to him by the Father.”). Yet Jesus also explains that the Father is waiting for men to seek him (verse 35: He who comes to me”; verse 40: “everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life”; verse 45: “everyone who listens to the Father and learns from him comes to me”). What we learn from this explanation is that personal belief is a dynamic interaction between the Father and those who seek Him. God draws; men respond by believing. It they don’t believe, God will harden them.
Beginning in verse 48, Jesus now sets the stage for the second section of His discourse—the non-symbolic section. Despite the Jews’ objections, He reiterates: “I am the Bread of life,” the same words he had uttered in verse 35. In verse 51, however, He begins for the first time in the discourse, to speak about actually eating this bread. Jesus thus begins the transition from mere spiritual belief to actually partaking of Him physically. In the next verse, he adds that he is “living” bread and that this bread is His “flesh.”
Jesus has not used the words, “eat” and “flesh” in His opening dialogue (verses 25-47). The Jews catch Jesus’ shift in expression and immediately object to His demand that they not only believe in Him, but actually eat His flesh. Verse 52 records: “Then the Jews began to argue sharply among themselves, ‘How can this man give us his flesh to eat?’” Notice that the Jews are not objecting to Jesus’ mention of “bread,” but to His mention of “flesh.”
At this point, some may object that Jesus’ sudden use of “flesh” in verse 51 would not necessarily refer to eating his flesh, since Jesus subsequently says “which I will give for the life of the world.” Naturally, one could plausibly interpret this phrase as referring to the general work of atonement that Christ performed on the cross. The problem with this interpretation, however, is that none of these instance, indeed no passage of the New Testament, ever tells anyone to “eat the flesh” or “drink the blood” of Christ symbolically to attain eternal life.
This is a crucial point, the climax of the whole account. Jesus has only two alternatives: (1) He can go back to use of bread and water as metaphors, such as the metaphors of verse 35 that represent personally believing in Him and the Father, and thus calm the Jews’ fear that He was suggesting they actually eat His flesh; or (2) He can ignore their objections and continue to develop even more emphatically what the Jesus already clearly understand to be a direct command that they literally eat His flesh. The Catholic contention, of course, is that Jesus chooses the latter. He does not tell the Jews that they are misunderstanding Him or that He is still referring to personal belief in Him. Rather, not only does he ignore the Jews’ objection, He adds a more pointed description how they are to eat His flesh which can only confirm that the Jews, in thinking Jesus wants the people of the world to eat His flesh, have indeed understood Him correctly.
Jesus continues to remove all reasonable doubts about His meaning in five more ways: (1) in verse 53, He adds to command to “drink His blood” and “eat the flesh,” and in doing so (2) changes the imagery of drinking spiritual water from verse 35 into that of physically drinking His blood and (3) exchanges the word for “eat” from one that could be interpreted either physically or symbolically to one in which the only meaning is physical; (4) He repeats this new verb form four more times in the next four verses (verses 54-58), thus reinforcing the command to eat Him physically; (5) at the risk of losing His entire following, even His disciples and Apostles, He does not retract or soften His teaching.
J
Jerry_Marino
Guest
no it hasn’t, i am still not convinced.Then why do you dodge the tough questions/answers? The scriptural proof of Jesus’ eternal sacrifice has been shown to you.
Ummm . . . as for the Lord’s Supper - sorry, but you don’t partake. You partake in a pretend version of it because you reject the very essence of it.
**PS - **Not following - I just like to stamp out anti-Catholic ignorance wherever I see it, friend.
Z
zach_dunn
Guest
Because you read every post with the idea that it’s Catholic so therefore it’s wrong. It’s been proved to you several times over. You can’t and haven’t given a rebuttal to most of the posts meaning you don’t have an answer to them because they are right.
I have somewhat of a silly question. I was reading some anti-Catholic literature (stupid, I know), and this is [a paraphrase] of what they had to say:
Their response to the several times Jesus says that we must eat His flesh and drink His blood, they point out John 6:35 “And Jesus said to them: I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall not hunger: and he that believeth in me shall never thirst.” They say that “to come to Him” is to eat, and “to believe in Him” is to drink. I know this is really silly and stupid, but I couldn’t think of any thing to say. The scariest thing is that it made sense to me, but I will never lose faith in Jesus’ Church, I just don’t understand certain things.
Pax,
Zach
P
PJM
Guest
It’s a good question.
We can only expect our “seeds of faith” to grow in ground that has been prepared by the Holy Spirit.
I would start with 2 Tim. 3:16… of they don’t accept this they are not ready for futher discussion.
Then ask them to read out loud John 6:40-60, and ask them what is SAY’s… Then expalin that this is God speaking, God cannot lie.
God is a God of unlimited LOVE, and unlimited Power. God can do anything God wishes to do.
The fianl statement I would make is that Mt., Mk. Lk., and St Paul also write of this belief in their writtings.
Either God is God, can’t lie, and the Bible is His Word, or NONE of it applies. Their is no possible salvation for anyone. ya can’t have it both way’s
Love and prayers,
J
Jerry_Marino
Guest
Z
zach_dunn
Guest
You could start with Randy’s post’s. 14-17. And don’t give me your post number 18 as a response, that’s not a rebuttal. Tell me why he’s wrong and give scriptural “proof” for your ideas.
or
You could address baddog’s post #31, as was mentioned earlier I believe.
Pax,
Zach
P
PJM
Guest
NOPE!
Strike 1
Jn. 6: "66 After this many of his disciples drew back and no longer went about with him. 67 Jesus said to the twelve, "Do you also wish to go away?" 68** Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life; 69 and we have believed, and have come to know, that you are the Holy One of God.” **
Strike 2
1 Cor. 11: “27 Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord. 28 Let a man examine himself, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29 For any one who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment upon himself”
This could only be true if indeed it is the Real Body, Blood, soul and Divinity of Jesus!
Strike 3
John 6:"52 The Jews then disputed among themselves, saying, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?” 53 So Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you; 54 he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
**Jesus is God and cannot lie! **
Friend that may be want they would prefer to believe, but please look at verses 53, 54, and 55.
Verse 53 “Truly, Truly” were Jewish Contractual language
Verse 51, 54 and 55 Specify “My” Body and “My” Blood" And verse 55 also explicitly say’s "indeed" meaning **REALLY!/**COLOR]
he would give them his flesh to eat) that they cannot grasp it with their natural minds because it is a mystery beyond the ability of “the flesh” to understand. This is the same manner of speaking used by Paul in 1 Corinthians 2 & 3 when he is distinguishing between fleshly or carnal Christians and those who are discern the things of God with their spirits
Nice try, BUT! Look at 1 Cor. 11:27-29… Clearly wrong again!
Mt. Henrey’s Prot. Comentary vs. 60-65
“The human nature of Christ had not before been in heaven, but being God and man, that wondrous Person was truly said to have come down from heaven. The Messiah’s kingdom was not of this world; and they were to understand by faith, what he had said of a spiritual living upon him, and his fulness. As without the soul of man the flesh is of no value, so without the quickening Spirit of God all forms of religion are dead and worthless. He who made this provision for our souls, alone can teach us these things, and draw us unto Christ, that we may live by faith in him. Let us apply to Christ, thankful that it is declared that every one who is willing to come unto him shall be made welcome.”
Verse 63 explained 'Haydock Catholic Commentary:"
"Ver. 63. If then you shall see, &c. Christ, by mentioning his ascension, by this instance of his power and divinity, would confirm the truth of what he had before asserted; at the same time, correct their gross apprehension of eating his flesh and drinking his blood, in a vulgar and carnal manner, by letting them know he should take his whole body living with him to heaven; and consequently not suffer it to be, as they supposed, divided, mangled, and consumed upon earth. (Challoner) — The sense of these words, according to the common exposition, is this: you murmur at my words, as hard and harsh, and you refuse now to believe them: when I shall ascend into heaven, from whence I came into the world, and when my ascension, and the doctrine that I have taught you, shall be confirmed by a multitude of miracles, then shall you and many others believe"
Yea, we agree on something
R
Randy_Carson
Guest
NOPE!
Strike 1
Jn. 6: "66 After this many of his disciples drew back and no longer went about with him. 67 Jesus said to the twelve, "Do you also wish to go away?" 68** Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life; 69 and we have believed, and have come to know, that you are the Holy One of God.”**
Strike 2
1 Cor. 11: “27 Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord. 28 Let a man examine himself, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29 For any one who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment upon himself”
This could only be true if indeed it is the Real Body, Blood, soul and Divinity of Jesus!
Strike 3
John 6:"52 The Jews then disputed among themselves, saying, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?” 53 So Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you; 54 he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
**Jesus is God and cannot lie! **
Friend that may be want they would prefer to believe, but please look at verses 53, 54, and 55.
Verse 53 “Truly, Truly” were Jewish Contractual language
Verse 51, 54 and 55 Specify “My” Body and “My” Blood" And verse 55 also explicitly say’s "indeed" meaning **REALLY!/**COLOR]
Nice try, BUT! Look at 1 Cor. 11:27-29… Clearly wrong again!
Mt. Henrey’s Prot. Comentary vs. 60-65
“The human nature of Christ had not before been in heaven, but being God and man, that wondrous Person was truly said to have come down from heaven. The Messiah’s kingdom was not of this world; and they were to understand by faith, what he had said of a spiritual living upon him, and his fulness. As without the soul of man the flesh is of no value, so without the quickening Spirit of God all forms of religion are dead and worthless. He who made this provision for our souls, alone can teach us these things, and draw us unto Christ, that we may live by faith in him. Let us apply to Christ, thankful that it is declared that every one who is willing to come unto him shall be made welcome.”
Verse 63 explained 'Haydock Catholic Commentary:"
"Ver. 63. If then you shall see, &c. Christ, by mentioning his ascension, by this instance of his power and divinity, would confirm the truth of what he had before asserted; at the same time, correct their gross apprehension of eating his flesh and drinking his blood, in a vulgar and carnal manner, by letting them know he should take his whole body living with him to heaven; and consequently not suffer it to be, as they supposed, divided, mangled, and consumed upon earth. (Challoner) — The sense of these words, according to the common exposition, is this: you murmur at my words, as hard and harsh, and you refuse now to believe them: when I shall ascend into heaven, from whence I came into the world, and when my ascension, and the doctrine that I have taught you, shall be confirmed by a multitude of miracles, then shall you and many others believe"
Yea, we agree on something
I am a Catholic, and I am defending Jesus’ teaching on the Eucharist in John 6 by proving that the Protestant idea that Jesus was speaking metaphorically is incorrect. Since Protestants typically point to John 6:63 in an attempt to support their misunderstanding, I have demonstrated that “the flesh” in this verse means “human reasoning”.
Beyond that, I really don’t know how to respond to your post.
J
Jerry_Marino
Guest
0 k zach, you want it all once cause for me say what i think Jesus is speaking would require a lot of reading so i could go step by step, i will let you decide, zach my man, thanks, i love you.
God Bless you.
J
Jerry_Marino
Guest
wow! flabbergasted, where did you get the time and space theory? never mind don’t bother cause i will not get into some opinion of what one thinks?
i just responded to the muse of my new friend zach, he said i did not address your response but now i remember why. take care.
God bless you.
J
Jerry_Marino
Guest
who is augustine?
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