Help me to learn to pray the LOTH

[porthos11]

Sheesh. I really gotta pay attention, and it’s sometimes subtle. I can only be redirected for psalms and canticles if the redirection occurred from inside the proper, not from elsewhere even if the proper had redirected me their to start with. ie. Peter Claver, 9/9 redirects to C. of Pastors, then C. of Pastors redirects to Sunday Wk 1 for psalms and canticle. :hypno:

I know it can be confusing at first.

First of all, be familiar with the Ordinary. That contains the general structure for the Office. Once you’re familiar with the Ordinary, you will understand that the reference to the Common for Memorials indicates which Common is relevant for the parts that may be taken from it (for example, the Reading, Responsory, Gospel Canticle antiphons, and Intercessions).

Some people, myself included never use the Common on Memorials, taking instead everything from the Proper, and everything else from the Weekday.

That’s the general process. On some rare Memorials, however, particular parts can be indicated in the Proper such as:

HYMN, from the Common of the Blessed Virgin Mary, page nnnn.

or

Psalms and Canticle from Sunday Week I.

or

Psalms and Canticle from the Common of the Blessed Virgin Mary, page nnn.

in which case, you follow the instructions, because the Proper itself indicates so. See, for example, October 7, Our Lady of the Rosary. It’s a Memorial but with Proper parts for Morning Prayer and Evening Prayer. In this case, you follow the Proper and flip accordingly.

 

[Melo]

I haven’t got a book to try this yet but I am interested in praying the LOTH. From reading these posts, it seems that a LOT of people are confused on how to do this. I read elsewhere that not a lot of Catholics pray the LOTH but that it is becoming more popular. Maybe not a lot of Catholics pray the LOTH because it is so difficult to figure it out. Maybe they should create a ‘Dummies’ guide to praying the LOTH?

 

[AJV]

I haven’t got a book to try this yet but I am interested in praying the LOTH. From reading these posts, it seems that a LOT of people are confused on how to do this. I read elsewhere that not a lot of Catholics pray the LOTH but that it is becoming more popular. Maybe not a lot of Catholics pray the LOTH because it is so difficult to figure it out. Maybe they should create a ‘Dummies’ guide to praying the LOTH?

mercygate plugs the Divine Office for Dodo’s book and she will probably post soon tell you about it.

While complexity of the rules may have been a factor at one point, I don’t think it is any longer. Kind of like the computer gadgetry-everything used to be so big and now it’s smaller and smaller. The current rules in place are very simple compared with 50 years back.

I think it is more that people just have a difficult time acclimatising to liturgical prayer in general and all its terms. Proper of Saints, Proper of Seasons, Common of Saints, Psalter, Ferial, Evening Prayer I, EP II, etc. But once they get used to it, it isn’t very tough anymore. When I started praying, I didn’t use a book at all- I just read Chapter IV upto 245 - and it told me 90% (or more) of what I had to do to SAY the office correctly. For the postures I read 253-266. Then I looked at the table of liturgical days and the rules for the calendar so I could figure out which one came before whcih and what to do if two overlapped.

The only other thing I would have liked to do but have never got down to doing is figuring out the dates of the moveable feasts like Easter and which Sunday we are at without a liturgical calendar. But perhaps its not worth the effort.

 

[PhilotheaZ]

I haven’t got a book to try this yet but I am interested in praying the LOTH. From reading these posts, it seems that a LOT of people are confused on how to do this. I read elsewhere that not a lot of Catholics pray the LOTH but that it is becoming more popular. Maybe not a lot of Catholics pray the LOTH because it is so difficult to figure it out. Maybe they should create a ‘Dummies’ guide to praying the LOTH?

You mean like this? amazon.com/Divine-Office-Dodos-Praying-Liturgy/dp/0974464406/ref=sr_1_1/102-0521029-7008937?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1189766569&sr=1-1

 

[mercygate]

I haven’t got a book to try this yet but I am interested in praying the LOTH. From reading these posts, it seems that a LOT of people are confused on how to do this. I read elsewhere that not a lot of Catholics pray the LOTH but that it is becoming more popular. Maybe not a lot of Catholics pray the LOTH because it is so difficult to figure it out. Maybe they should create a ‘Dummies’ guide to praying the LOTH?

THE DIVINE OFFICE FOR DODOS is out of print. We have a new publisher, who wants to make it more somber. Doesn’t like the light-hearted touch that recognizes how confusing it can be for us ordinary folks. We’re gathering testimony from users to convince the publisher that DODOS should be reprinted (with a few additions) *just as it is. *

 

[FrCorey]

You mean like this? amazon.com/Divine-Office-Dodos-Praying-Liturgy/dp/0974464406/ref=sr_1_1/102-0521029-7008937?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1189766569&sr=1-1

thats why the dodos are extinct now, thier brains snapped learning the LOTH…

 

[ddeluna]

THE DIVINE OFFICE FOR DODOS is out of print.

This must have just happened as I rec’d my copy maybe 3 or so weeks ago, maybe 4. I ordered it directly from allcatholicbooks.com (I think).

 

[ddeluna]

I haven’t got a book to try this yet but I am interested in praying the LOTH. From reading these posts, it seems that a LOT of people are confused on how to do this. I read elsewhere that not a lot of Catholics pray the LOTH but that it is becoming more popular. Maybe not a lot of Catholics pray the LOTH because it is so difficult to figure it out. Maybe they should create a ‘Dummies’ guide to praying the LOTH?

It’s complicated, to be sure, but not rocket science. It can be easily mastered. It seems like a lot of people are confused cuz all of us confused ones are posting. The ones who already know and pray the LOTH are not posting, unless they’re helping the confused (generally speaking). They’re praying the LOTH

 

[PhilotheaZ]

thats why the dodos are extinct now, thier brains snapped learning the LOTH…

“All you birds of the air, bless the Lord.” (Daniel 3) Maybe because they couldn’t fly, they figured they couldn’t pray either?

 

[ddeluna]

I know it can be confusing at first.

In this case, you follow the Proper and flip accordingly.

Oh, I’m flipping (out) alright.

 

[mercygate]

This must have just happened as I rec’d my copy maybe 3 or so weeks ago, maybe 4. I ordered it directly from allcatholicbooks.com (I think).

Although it is out of print, a few places might still have some copies. Thanks for the reference!

 

[ddeluna]

That’s the general process. On some rare Memorials, however, particular parts can be indicated in the Proper such as:

HYMN, from the Common of the Blessed Virgin Mary, page nnnn.

or

Psalms and Canticle from Sunday Week I.

or

Psalms and Canticle from the Common of the Blessed Virgin Mary, page nnn.

in which case, you follow the instructions, because the Proper itself indicates so. See, for example, October 7, Our Lady of the Rosary. It’s a Memorial but with Proper parts for Morning Prayer and Evening Prayer. In this case, you follow the Proper and flip accordingly.

This is good stuff. Thanks. It seems the Dodos book could be a little more clear on this (but that book definitely bootstrapped me into the LOTH). Thanks so much.

 

[ddeluna]

Almost. On all memorials, except very very few (we got a rare one coming up day after tomorrow for OL Sorrows) the psalms are prayed from the psalter rather than from Sunday Week 1.

How can I know when this is the case? For example, 9/9 Peter Claver was an oblig. mem. referring me to C. of Pastors, which referred me to Sun Wk1 for psalms/cant., but instead I would use the Psalter.
HOWEVER,
For OL Sorrows 9/15 oblig. mem., the same redirect ocurrs in the C. of BVM, which I follow?

How can I determine the exceptions?

And then, as 9/15 is Saturday, I won’t pray EP for OL Sorrows mem. but instead EP1 for 24th Sunday, right?

 

[smithec]

How can I determine the exceptions?

I’ve only been prayer the LOTH for a just over a month I guess, and I’ve gotten rather comfortable and confident in my use of the book. I was pretty confused by what I use when also. I think what helped me was the Paragraph at the top of page 695

For the memorials of saints, the psalms, canticle and antiphons are taken from the current week of the Psalter, unless there are proper psalms and antiphons. pg 695 Christian Prayer

I had to get used to the idea that Common of Pastors, Common of Martyrs etc. are still Commons, and therefore unless it is a Solemnity or there are propers we use the psalter (took me a few tries to get this one right).

What I’m unsure of is when DO the Psalms, Canticle and Antiphons from the Commons get used? It seems like they are rarely if ever called for. If possible please provide a page number in the book to guide us. I find reading the paragraph in context greatly helps me.

Also, I have read there are times you are supposed to stand, sit, etc., but I can’t find any details of that in my book. Is that not part of Christian Prayer, but instead reserved for the full LOTH 4 volume set?

-Ed

 

[AJV]

How can I know when this is the case? For example, 9/9 Peter Claver was an oblig. mem. referring me to C. of Pastors, which referred me to Sun Wk1 for psalms/cant., but instead I would use the Psalter.
HOWEVER,
For OL Sorrows 9/15 oblig. mem., the same redirect ocurrs in the C. of BVM, which I follow?

How can I determine the exceptions?

Doesn’t Morning Prayer for OL Sorrows have a set of antiphons with something like “Psalms from Sunday Week 1”?

And then, as 9/15 is Saturday, I won’t pray EP for OL Sorrows mem. but instead EP1 for 24th Sunday, right?

Yes

 

[AJV]

What I’m unsure of is when DO the Psalms, Canticle and Antiphons from the Commons get used? It seems like they are rarely if ever called for. If possible please provide a page number in the book to guide us. I find reading the paragraph in context greatly helps me.

For your particular (i.e. local) feasts. e.g. if the patron of your diocese is St. John Crysostom. Or the patron of your parish. He then gets bumped up to a solemnity from a memorial for you. For e.g. in India, St. Therese is a feast, because she is a patron, so there on her feast day the psalms from the Common would be used. In the USA, I think OL Guadalupe gets a similar privilege.

The psalms and Canticle in the Common of the apostles are used quite frequently because almost all the apostles and evangelists are feasts.

However there are a few memorials where the Evening prayer calls for psalms form the Common. See the Beheading of St. John the Baptist (Aug 29) and St. Agnes (Jan 21) and St. Martin of Tours (Nov 11)

Also, I have read there are times you are supposed to stand, sit, etc., but I can’t find any details of that in my book. Is that not part of Christian Prayer, but instead reserved for the full LOTH 4 volume set?

-Ed

No it is. Actually the directions are more for recitation in community but in any case, the directions are:

1. All taking part stand during:

a. the introduction to the office and the introductory verses of each hour;

b. the hymn;

c. the gospel canticle;

d. the intercessions, the Lord’s Prayer, and the concluding prayer.

1. All sit to listen to the readings, except the gospel.

1. The assembly either sits or stands, depending on custom, while the psalms and other canticles (with their antiphons) are being said.

1. All make the sign of the cross, from forehead to breast and from left shoulder to right, at:

a. the beginning of the hours, when God, come to my assistance is being said;

b. the beginning of the gospel, the Canticles of Zechariah, of Mary, and of Simeon.

The sign of the cross is made on the mouth at the beginning of the invitatory, at Lord, open my lips.

I observe the bowing and the crossing but if I recite in church before/after Mass, not the standing.

 

[drforjc]

Yes, if it is not Proper then the weekday is a valid option to the Common for most memorials. But since ddeluna is familiar with the Common I gave that option. There are a few exceptions (e.g. Ss. Joachim and Anna)

Basically (this is not official and given in the GILH but is more of an inference on my part based on instructions given within the book) there are different ‘types’ of Memorials (whether Optional or Obligatory). The variations are in the saying of Morning and Evening Prayer

1. Memorials which are like feasts. That is, the psalms are from Sunday Week 1 for Morning Prayer, and from the Common or special Proper psalms are appointed for Evening Prayer. They have Proper psalm antiphons and other exclsuive elents like the reading, responsory, etc.

e.g.
Beheading of St. John the Baptist - Aug 29
OL Sorrows- Sept. 15
OL Rosary - Oct 7
The Guardian Angels-Oct 2
St. Agnes- Jan 21
St. Mary Magdalen-July 22
St. Martin of Tours - Nov 11

1. Memorials which are like quasi-feasts. The psalms are from the weekday but everything else HAS to be taken from the Common or is Proper.
   e.g.
   St. Joseph the Worker- May 1
   St. Barnabas - June 11
   Ss. Joachim and Anna - July 26
2. Memorials which have Proper antiphons for the canticles of Mary/Zachary (Gospel canticles) and a Proper closing Prayer. The psalms are from the weekday. Everything aside from the Gospel Canticle Antiphon and the Closing Prayer, can be taken from the weekday or Common.
   e.g.
   Ss. Cornelius and Cyprian- September 16
   St. Vincent de Paul - September 27
   St. Theresa -October 1
   St. Francis- October 4
3. Memorials which have only a Proper Closing Prayer. The psalms are from the weekday. Everything else aside from the Closing Prayer can be taken from the weekday or Common

Great. What you descibe is consonant with my own interpretation. Thank you for the extensive expostion.

 

[ddeluna]

In 1989 I bought the St. Paul edition of CP. After several months I drifted away from it, mostly due to never knowing exactly how to pray. A few months ago I learned using the Catholic Book Pub. Co. edition of CP. Now that I learned (mostly) how to pray I went back to the St. Paul ed. I like it cuz it prints the antiphons before AND after the psalms/canticle, and prints the Benedictus and Magnificat on every page where it’s to be prayed. Drastically reduces page flipping and reaching/digging for the prayer page. Other little niceties/aids as well.

What the St. Paul ed. also has is a selection of Office of Readings, and a pretty good quantity of them. I intend to begin adding OOR to my MP and EP. If I keep it up and feel drawn to it, then it justifies moving to the 4 volume breviary.

My question is related to the chart it also includes of the 2 year cycle of biblical passages for the Office of Readings. I’m trying to determine if this chart indicates what is actually in the OOR of the 4 volume ed. On pg. 1569 (for any of you who actually have this edition) it lists the following:
24th Week
Sun Hos 8:1-14
Mon Hos 9:1-14
Tue Hos 10-1-15
Wed Hos 11:1-11
Thu Hos 13:1-15, 14:1
etc.

Are the above readings the ones used for these dates in the 4 volume ed.?

 

[AJV]

In 1989 I bought the St. Paul edition of CP. After several months I drifted away from it, mostly due to never knowing exactly how to pray. A few months ago I learned using the Catholic Book Pub. Co. edition of CP. Now that I learned (mostly) how to pray I went back to the St. Paul ed. I like it cuz it prints the antiphons before AND after the psalms/canticle, and prints the Benedictus and Magnificat on every page where it’s to be prayed. Drastically reduces page flipping and reaching/digging for the prayer page. Other little niceties/aids as well.

What the St. Paul ed. also has is a selection of Office of Readings, and a pretty good quantity of them. I intend to begin adding OOR to my MP and EP. If I keep it up and feel drawn to it, then it justifies moving to the 4 volume breviary.

My question is related to the chart it also includes of the 2 year cycle of biblical passages for the Office of Readings. I’m trying to determine if this chart indicates what is actually in the OOR of the 4 volume ed. On pg. 1569 (for any of you who actually have this edition) it lists the following:
24th Week
Sun Hos 8:1-14
Mon Hos 9:1-14
Tue Hos 10-1-15
Wed Hos 11:1-11
Thu Hos 13:1-15, 14:1
etc.

Are the above readings the ones used for these dates in the 4 volume ed.?

No the 4 volume as it stands now has a one year cycle and this week the readings are from Ezekial. The GILH mentions a Supplement with the 2 year readings but I don’t think it has been published. Does anyone know the source of the arrangement given in Christian Prayer?

 

[maryj]

Would someone check this out for me and see if it is correct for using Christian prayer. I was reading ddeluna’s post and thought this might help but want to make sure it is correct first of. Thanks in advance. And might I add that my time spent praying the LOTH for the last few weeks is turning out to be the best part of my day. I absolutely am overjoyed that I have begun this path of prayer. Thanks to you all for your tutoring, it is much appreciated.

Anybody?